Firefighters shot in New York state [Archive]

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Miss Cellane

12-24-12, 12:05pm

I just read this: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012/12/24/us/ap-us-fire-shooting.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Summary: Firefighters responding to an early morning fire were shot at by unknown shooters. Two were killed; two injured.

Seriously? These men and women are risking their lives to save other people's property and someone thinks it's okay to shoot at them?

This all just makes me sad, and very frightened for our future.

It's not about gun laws at this point. It is about how anyone can get to this place, that they think shooting and killing other people is okay.

I'm sickened.

Mrs-M

12-24-12, 12:07pm

I'm sickened, too, and deeply saddened. Bless the families/loved ones.

bae

12-24-12, 12:17pm

Violence towards Fire and EMS services is a quite common problem (~5% of EMS calls involve violence directed towards responders, ~700,000 assaults/year just against EMS/paramedics.)

http://www.everyonegoeshome.com/research/pages/Initiative_12__Violent_Incidents/more7.html

Tradd

12-24-12, 12:19pm

Not that uncommon here in Chicago.

Mrs-M

12-24-12, 12:31pm

bae

12-24-12, 1:27pm

Not sure how to respond to your post, Bae, or yours, Tradd, but just because it's "quite common" and "not that uncommon", doesn't make it OK.

Adding, that statistics, IMO, would do little to console grieving loved ones at this time, as would the words, "quite common", or "not that uncommon".

I am not sure where you got that I think it is "OK" from my post, Mrs-M? It is a huge problem, not just a one-time occurrence. One out of 5 calls roughly. I simply pointed you at some data on the frequency, and what is being done about it.

I happen to have a personal interest in the matter, as I am expected to be dressed and ready to go out the door in ~60 seconds when the radio/pager goes off, even while I am sitting here drinking my coffee offering you facts:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-enZBmihTvkM/UNicokH7YgI/AAAAAAAAHBo/yEu3zfdoyo0/s640/Awesomized.jpg

As to what would console grieving loved ones, well, I suspect some of them would be consoled by looking at the data, and formulating effective policies to deal with the risk, so that we learn something from the tragedy.

bunnys

12-24-12, 1:36pm

I'm guessing those who get shot are often walking into a domestic abuse issue and the shooter is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs?

Not that they're out to get a first responder.

bae

12-24-12, 1:38pm

Not that they're out to get a first responder.

From what I understand, in some neighborhoods in the USA, it is simply the sport to "get The Man", and firefighters and medical response teams are not considered neutral parties. Anyone in uniform is fair game. Sickening.

I'm guessing those who get shot are often walking into a domestic abuse issue and the shooter is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs?

This is a big one too. It's not just shootings though (~15% or so), it's all sorts of implements involved. You can find charts and graphs if you bunny-trail down the pointer above.

Some departments have started issuing bulletproof/knife-proof vests, but that has been very unsatisfactory. It is hot enough under the turnout gear just standing still that heat stress is a leading cause of medical problems for firefighters. Adding a layer of heat-retaining vest would make things really brutal. Plus the additional bulk makes moving in constricted spaces even more problematic.

But sitting around waiting for law enforcement/incident control to make the site "safe" isn't a great answer either.

Mrs-M

12-24-12, 2:30pm

Bae. Seeing all that gear, put a smile on my face. Keep up the good work. Thank you for that.

HappyHiker

12-24-12, 3:41pm

I just feel very, very sad...

Peace on Earth..?

Good Will...?

Let it be so.

iris lily

12-24-12, 3:50pm

This is one reason my brother carries a gun, he's been a first responder for decades. He has also been a processes server off and on over the years.

I might make fun of him for living in suburbia but in reality he probably puts himself regularly in situations that may not be all that safe.

bae

12-24-12, 4:25pm

This is one reason my brother carries a gun, he's been a first responder for decades. He has also been a processes server off and on over the years.

To be fair, if you look carefully, you will notice that the locker I have my PPE over is a gun safe. Because when I don the gear, I remove and lock up my firearms. I have great doubts as to my ability to efficiently access a firearm while wearing 70 pounds of bulky gear, including heavy gloves. The fewer things I am carrying that can hang up on obstacles, the better IMHO.

But I do have a honking big ax :-)

bae

12-24-12, 5:01pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/shooter-opens-fire-webster-n-y-house-fire-article-1.1226541

Surprise - the murderer had a previous record of violence, including murder...

I wish we'd not release these evil people upon our society to do more evil.

iris lily

12-24-12, 6:39pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/shooter-opens-fire-webster-n-y-house-fire-article-1.1226541

I wish we'd not release these evil people upon our society to do more evil.

Well, we can't rehabilitate prisoners because there isn't enough money put into the prison system for that. We incarcerate but not rehabilitate. And then there are the systemic problems which cause someone to embrace a life of crime. We just need to throw more money at these problems. Yeah, that's the ticket--more money. That'll do it.

Wildflower

12-24-12, 10:24pm