French Bread

[herbgeek]

It could have just been an unrepeatable fluke, but yesterday I made the best French bread ever. I swear it was the same as what you get in a bakery. I can't tell you how many times, and how many different techniques or ingredients I've tried trying to make it like this. Even buying expensive "French style" flour from King Arthur Flour.

I used the same basic recipe I always do, and the same ingredients, and yet it came out so much better this last time. Why is this? I watched some French Chef reruns over the weekend, and Julia showed a clip of herself taking lessons from a French baker. Its all about the way the dough is folded and manipulated. What an amazing difference: the crust was sturdier and more substantial than any prior attempt. I am completely fascinated with the chemistry and physics of bread.

I used a no knead method, making a starter the day before, and then letting the bread dough sit at room temperature for about 24 hours. I patted the dough out into a rectangle and then did a letter fold (1/3 up towards the middle, 1/3 down to the middle), pressed hard together, then used the side of my hand to make a groove across the middle, folded it in half, then rolled into a snake. When doing the final rise, I exposed the bottom of the loaf to air for the first half of the time period, then rolled it over. This was my attempt to reproduce the use of the french cloth they use, which I didn't have. The video clip I watched had a different way of slicing the top surface prior to baking that I tried (more straight along the length than a cross cut which is how I'd previously seen it done) , and seemed to allow for better rise once in the oven. I sprayed the dough with water in the oven initially, and then every 2 minutes for a total of 3 times. After baking at 450 for 20 minutes, I turned the oven off and let it sit in there for 5 more minutes (this made a big difference in crunchiness).

Will have to try this again later in the week just to make sure I didn't just get lucky this one time. :laff:

[iris lily]

That sounds great! I do hope you can replicate that. Making bread like that is a great skill.

[Bootsie]

I liked all the detail in your post. I enjoy making bread but have gotten out of the habit. I've never tried French bread before. Enjoy your loaf (or is it all gone by now??).

[Blackdog Lin]

That is too cool! Sending hopes that it wasn't a fluke, and that you'll be enjoying warm homemade French bread for years to come.

I have a retirement goal of learning how to make a good homemade sandwich loaf - hasn't happened yet (after 3 tries). However, I DID make a very good English toasting bread loaf, so I guess that's a start. Just gotta keep practicing.....

[peggy]

herbgeek, congratulations. Let us know if it works again.

Blackdog, what does a good sandwich loaf mean to you? I mean, what are you looking for and how does it differ from an 'English toasting loaf', whatever that is?

[herbgeek]

My favorite sandwich loaf is this one (it does also make incredible toast):

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/a-smaller-pain-de-mie-recipe

[bae]

Herbgeek - thanks for sharing your observations!

[Tussiemussies]

Herbgeek, sounds so delicious. Would love to hear more about your bread adventures...:)

[Blackdog Lin]

Ditto herbgeek, keep posting. You are my inspiration.

My one success looked and tasted like English muffins - a little dense and "holey" like English muffins. It really was divine for toast - but too dense for what I'm hoping to do in a sandwich loaf. The recipe was a specific English-muffins-type loaf - I tried it 'cause it was posted as "you CANNOT FAIL with this recipe" - and they were right. Well, so far anyway. I've only done it once.

But I want to learn to make a basic loaf, soft and easily sliced for sandwiches, more like store-bought. My few bread successes (very few!) have produced a denser type of bread. Awesome w/butter, but not easily cut into slices that will hold together for sandwiches. And if I can't multipurpose a homemade loaf for sandwiches, we will either (1) waste too much, it will go bad before we eat it all; or (2) we will eat it all, warmed up and slathered with butter, and my hips and muffin-top will be the worse for it. :)

The pain de mie recipe sounds like what I hope for - but sounds like it needs a special pan, which ain't gonna happen.

And - "gently deflate the dough"? What's that all about? :)

[Tussiemussies]

Hi Blackdog, I used to successfully make English muffins, but my recipe book is packed away. As soon as I find it I will post the recipe and my memories of making them, they used to come out great. Nice and high filled with nooks and crannies....:)

[herbgeek]

Blackdog Lin- you can fake out the special pan by using a cookie sheet and some heavy weight on top (maybe some oven safe bricks- I assume they all are but not sure).

I don't gently deflate my dough either. I just handle it, and it deflates by itself. There is no pampering in this household. :laff:

[herbgeek]

I would like to report that my success was not a one time fluke. I made another loaf, this one a bit wider in diameter than the last one, it is also tasty and crusty. :)

[Tussiemussies]

Ditto herbgeek, keep posting. You are my inspiration.

My one success looked and tasted like English muffins - a little dense and "holey" like English muffins. It really was divine for toast - but too dense for what I'm hoping to do in a sandwich loaf. The recipe was a specific English-muffins-type loaf - I tried it 'cause it was posted as "you CANNOT FAIL with this recipe" - and they were right. Well, so far anyway. I've only done it once.

But I want to learn to make a basic loaf, soft and easily sliced for sandwiches, more like store-bought. My few bread successes (very few!) have produced a denser type of bread. Awesome w/butter, but not easily cut into slices that will hold together for sandwiches. And if I can't multipurpose a homemade loaf for sandwiches, we will either (1) waste too much, it will go bad before we eat it all; or (2) we will eat it all, warmed up and slathered with butter, and my hips and muffin-top will be the worse for it. :)

The pain de mie recipe sounds like what I hope for - but sounds like it needs a special pan, which ain't gonna happen.

And - "gently deflate the dough"? What's that all about? :)

Sorry Blackdog, I misunderstood your post. Thought you wanted to make English Muffins. Was re-reading this thread and see that they weren't what you wanted.....Christine

[Tussiemussies]

Blackdog, the books of King Arthur Flour might have just the type of sandwich bread recipe you are looking for...

[Gregg]

I don't gently deflate my dough either. I just handle it, and it deflates by itself. There is no pampering in this household. :laff:

Lol...I love it!

[awakenedsoul]

I love making french bread. It has so few ingredients. Glad to hear you had success with yours. I use the recipe from an old Better Homes and Gardens cookbook. I knead mine for 8-10 mins. (by hand.) I've been baking my own bread for years now, so I guess I just take it for granted. I think you get more confident with each loaf...
It saves a lot of money!!!

[Blackdog Lin]

Hurray herbgeek. Glad you have the french loaf goin' on now.

I also now have one loaf I can replicate: made the English toasting loaf again yesterday and it is again divine - for toast. It will be awesome with tomorrow's New Year's Day creamy cheesy broccoli soup with ham.

Tussie - I've been all over the King Arthur flour website - had 2 failures. But I KNOW it's me and my lack of technique(s), not the recipes, so I'll be back to their website to try again!

Hey, how do you store your homemade loaves? Some weeks it takes us 4-5 days to use up a loaf, and I've had it go moldy before we've gotten it eaten - no preservatives, I guess. What's the best way to store the one loaf that you're eating on?

[herbgeek]

By failures, do you mean the loaf didn't rise correctly? I swear by instant yeast, works every time, its not picky about the temperature of the rest of the ingredients. Have not been as lucky with active dry yeast (aka Fleishman's, the stuff in the little foil packets).

[Blackdog Lin]

You know what? - this English toasting loaf uses the speedy-rise or quick-rise yeast. Is that the same as instant? Maybe that's why I'm being successful with this one recipe.

My failures generally come with the second rise (using regular active dry yeast). The first rise seems to go fine, then after I rework the dough (punch it down?) into the loaf shape to rise again, it takes way too long. Or it looks right and then after baking it to the perfect color it's still not done enough in the middle. Or the texture just isn't nice and fine like a sandwich loaf. I've tried half a dozen different recipes.....

[Tussiemussies]

For me I have never had a problem using the yeast packets. Never had a yeast that didn't proof for me. I make sure the water is lukewarm, and put in the packet. Once in awhile. I think I recall if there was sugar or honey in the recipe, I would add just a pinch of sugar or honey to the mixture... Just some thoughts...

[herbgeek]

No, quick rise yeast is not the same as instant yeast. Instant yeast doesn't need to be reconstituted in water first. This stuff really is a miracle- never had any of the problems with it that I've had with other yeast. I buy a pound at a time, keep it in the freezer and it lasts me a year or two. I know I sound like a King Arthur pusher, but that is where I buy it: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/saf-red-instant-yeast-16-oz#1458#

As far as your other issues: it usually takes an hour for me after putting the dough into a pan before its ready to bake, longer in a cold kitchen. If the kitchen is drafty, it also takes longer. I tend to put the pan in the microwave (just because its an enclosed space, I don't turn it on) or in a slightly warmed but turned off oven when the kitchen is drafty or cold. If you aren''t sure if the bread is done, stick an instant read thermometer in there. It should be 200 degrees or higher. I use the thump test, tap it on the bottom side and see if it sounds hollow. The texture is likely due to the recipe itself, I find recipes that add milk and butter have a better texture for sandwiches (like the pain de mie recipe). A slow rising bread also has better texture, and by slow rising, I mean a couple of days.

[Blackdog Lin]

'K. Thanks herbgeek. I have a fridge full of regular yeast, so am gonna research recipes to use it up (and practice) that use milk and/or butter. After that though, I just might take your advice and switch to using instant.

I have taken to using the oven for rising - a cold oven but with the light on. It's worked well for the English-muffin loaf - need to try it with a sandwich loaf.