View Full Version : Are you your true simple living self with others?
Since I have moved back to the old 'hood of "The O.C." (somewhat upscale Orange County Calif) I have been reconnecting with old friends. When I am with some of them (actually alot of them) I find that I am not being myself when it comes to my simple living views - which are living a spartan, minimalist, low cost, unmaterialistic life. They seem so put off by my "ways" that I am beginning to cover it up in little ways - like not saying I bought something at the thrift store or Walmart - just to sort of keep the comments about how I live at bay. So even though I am very proud of achieving my personal simple living goals and living the life I want, I find myself changing my natural behavior (but not my simple living lifestyle) in order to appear more mainstream with my upscale friends then I really am. I know everyone does this with certain people in their lives - not talking politics or religion or finances or lifestyle stuff with people you know don't share your views - but I never thought I'd be doing that about my simple life with friends. I feel like I have to "upscale" myself (at least verbally but not in reality) so I don't appear too odd to them. Doesn't really bother me as I "hide" other parts of my true self from some of them already (don't we all to some degree) but wondered if others are completely open even if your friends or family don't "get it".
BTW - Everything is going great with the new house sis and I share. Will post my new financial numbers (i.e. my monthly expenses) once I get a couple of months worth. But so far it seems to be a great financial choice as well as lifestyle choice to buy a house with sis. She takes alot of the dog-related chores from me (but hasn't been on doggie doody patrol yet!), shared house-hold and yard chores, and splitting all the housing related costs is HUGE!! And both of us are gone so much it's almost like we are each living alone. We have to actually make plans together if we want toever actually see each other :-).
When I was working, I never let on that my primary haberdasher was Goodwill or that I would spend a few hours each month trolling thrift stores for stuff I needed. It didn't seem germane and, yeah, I wanted to avoid being seen as cheap rather than simply saving money so I could spend it where I wanted to.
Quitting work, though (or retiring early, as most people think I did), gave me an opportunity to "witness" to a simpler lifestyle. Now our median-sized median-priced house in a working class neighborhood made sense as the way we avoided a budget-busting mortgage (still have one, but it doesn't bust the budget). The paid-for car was $300-400 I didn't have to earn each month to keep driving around. The clothes don't have labels, I'm at least a generation behind on electronica (even the "new" stuff save gifts). But I don't have to show up every day at a HSSJ and living simply is the way I do it. And I make sure people know it. :)
I still do feel a little pressure among some friends to keep up with the Joneses. When conversation turns to the newest photography gear, well, I got what I got. I'm happy with it. But in a nation of serial upgraders, acknowledging that you purposely bought a camera designed five years ago seems odd. I usually don't say anything.
I am for the most part a 'when in Rome' kind of person.
Most things I don't think are other people's bees' wax and I keep a tremendous amount to myself, I really don't like people trying to proselytize to me on any subject, so I do the world a favor and keep my trap shut on most things unless I get a receptive vibe.
I don't think it's anything to feel guilty about.
Why shut yourself off from old friends that will never, ever understand how you could own a piece of clothing that touched a stranger's skin?
Live & let live.
I am for the most part a 'when in Rome' kind of person.
Most things I don't think are other people's bees' wax and I keep a tremendous amount to myself, I really don't like people trying to proselytize to me on any subject, so I do the world a favor and keep my trap shut on most things unless I get a receptive vibe.
That's pretty much how I operate. Sometimes, though, it's funny how contradictory values just come out of the conversation. When I went to a workplace every day, if someone complimented me on a skirt I would LOVE telling them that it was half price, but then there was also a discount day, and so I wound up getting the $75 skirt for $12 or something like that. People would say, "you shouldn't say that"--I guess because it would be more socially acceptable for people to assume that I paid $75 for it. But the deal was what I was proud of.
...
Why shut yourself off from old friends that will never, ever understand how you could own a piece of clothing that touched a stranger's skin?
Live & let live.
Of course a platoon of infected people could have tried on and put back that item they just bought at Nordstrom...Anyone who would cut me out of their life for something like that probably wouldn't have been a friend in the first place.
Editing yourself to the point of becoming a faded copy of who you really are is a common approach, I've noticed, but it won't serve you well in the long run. Proselytizing is something else again.
Editing myself - good choice of words because that's sort of what I have been doing. Not that anyone would cut me out of their lives for anything I do (and that includes if I didn't edit my more grittier, rougher, noir side - the real me - like I do from some friends who are more flowers and puppies and rainbows kind of people) but they do look at me like I have 2 heads sometimes. I will admit that my inner-rebel-without-a-cause-except-to-shock-people sometimes gets the upper hand and I purposely take about extreme simple living ideas I'd like to do (go live in a cave in Tibet kind of things) but mostly I'm just want to share my experiences because I see them struggling so financially. And I have tried to do that (with a small amount of editing) but it didn't get a warm reception so am now backing off.
Right now the simple living, no buying, re-using, etc. - while a choice - is also a necessity. So, yes, I am being true to my simple living self with others, but I'm pretty sure that what they see is more "can't afford" rather than a simple living "choice". And, to be honest, it's true - we don't have the money to live extravagantly. So, right now, the reality of our "simple living" is, again, a necessity more than a choice.
Generally, our friends and workmates are not conspicuous consumption types with the possible exceptions of our houses. There is a lot of house love around here. No, not at all do we edit our lives. And I ALWAYS tell someone that I got the thing I'm wearing at Goodwill.
I do not think that anyone I know cares about how I live. I mean, I could be wrong, but no one has ever made any comments, or even weird expressions. Ever.
I share just about everything regarding how I do things, with family and friends, at my jobs, and I cannot remember even one time that any person had something negative or dismissive to share. I could be that I am completely oblivious and do not notice. I am not much of a fan of shopping, but I like hearing about what my friends and co-workers do with their time and, I guess, their resources. It does not seem like what they do has any less value or social consciousness than how I fill my time.
I have a good friend who is very fond of fancy soaps and lotions. She still likes the soap I make, too, or at least she pretends to like it. Either way, it has no effect on how I view what I do, or what she does, or, really, anything.
However, if someone were crass or careless enough to rain on my parade...or soap, as it were...I most likely would limit (inevitable and difficult to avoid co-workers or family) or eliminate (friends, who are not true friends if they minimize me anyway) my contact with that person. Or, maybe I would not, if I liked many other things about that person, but I surely would have a conversation with her/him about the whole thing.
I like what I do, how I live, even when it is difficult. I do not think that it is unreasonable for other people, even if they think me totally stupid for what I do or do not do, to at least offer the same respect that I give to them.
This seems to be a common experience with you guys and it has me wondering if I am truly clueless about how other people respond to me. Something to think about, anyway.
Jilly - it doesn't sound like you are clueless or unobservant, it sounds like you may have friends and family that are living much the same way you do - or want to - and probably share many of your same "less then upwardly mobile" kind of goals. I think that is where my problems come in as many of the people i know or associate with ARE very much upwardly mobile and seem to think my desire to have less, rather then more or better, is odd. There are constant comments like: if you went back to work you could afford to buy a - better house, better car, designer clothes, new I-whatever, etc.. Not so much trashing on my current lifestyle or insulting me directly, more just not understanding how I can equate not wanting more with happiness. I have had his problem in the past when I lived here - and sort of raged against it then Now I'm trying to just ignore it and even feed into the upscaleness wanna-be world of my friends at least verbally. Like if someone says "I'd never shop in Walmart, only Nordstroms". I just smile and reply that "yeah Nordstroms has nice stuff". When in reality I would normally either take offense at the unintentioned dig at my Walmart et al clothes, orI'd try to explain why I don't shop at Nordstrom because it's not in line with personal financial goals. Now I let it go and try to be supportive of their upscale desires no matter how much they whine about being poor as they hand over their credit card for anew blouse at Nordstroms :-)! Sounds like you have great friends that you have a lot in common with Jilly! I have great friends but am realizing I really don't have that much in common with them.
Unfortunately the people who would benefit most from adopting some aspects of your lifestyle are probably the people who are the most threatened/scared by it. And maybe they are a little afraid of being judged by you for what they know are unhealthy consumption habits. I don't think you are doing them any favors by hiding your simple lifestyle, but at the same time you probably want to be careful not to be throwing it in their faces all the time. I would just focus on the positive and the fact that you are making certain financial choices because they are in line with your values and the lifestyle you want to live, which is one of low-level consumption and freedom. Emphasize the positives of that. And show (don't tell) how the choices you make allow you to live your free and easy, fun-filled life. If they propose getting together to do something that isn't in line with your values (e.g. meeting up to shop or going to an expensive restaurant), suggest an alternative -- and no, it probably shouldn't be dumpster diving, at least not at first! Maybe going to a cheap ethnic place for lunch followed by a walk on the beach. If you need to dress it up in a bit of hipster cache, that's fine -- put it in terms of "that cool ethnic place I read about in Zagats (or saw people talking about on Chowhound or Serious Eats)."
But ultimately if you can't be yourself around people, they probably aren't the best candidates for deep friendships. Keep it casual and keep looking until you find your "tribe." I'm sure they are out there, even in the OC.
lhamo
Spartana, maybe that is true about some of them wanting to live as simply as I do. Maybe. Most of my friends cook from scratch, and I think that is a factor of our age, as that is what women in my demographic always did. One has a garden. One of my friends rides his bike, as does my daughter and son-in-law, but only because I gave them my bikes when I could no longer safely ride.
I have an acquaintance who makes soap and stuff, but just the one. I am the only person I know who makes most of the stuff she needs. All the rest, friends, family and co-workers are just ordinary, average people, something I think myself to be, just that I do things differently from them. Most of them are big shoppers. A few travel several times a year. I think that what I have is having been drawn to nice people. As for family, I guess that they are just used to me.
The only people I know who have the same or similar life practices and philosophy are the ones I have met on-line. Oh, one exception is the five women I know because of the fiber club we have at our Library. Almost forgot about them.>8)
dado potato
1-6-13, 5:43pm
The ancient Greek Epicureans placed a high value on friendship for good reason. IMHO it is difficult to imagine anything more felicitous than friendship. The Epicurean ideal of friendship transcended differences in class.
I'm getting more transparent about a lot of my thoughts and choices ... But with that transparency I also am getting less wordy. So increasingly, people get a simple phrase as an answer to their direct questions, but with no explanation unless they ask for more.
Also ... There is little emotion involved. Just the facts.
That removes any feeling of judgment or proselytizing. Unless that comes from within themselves.
It's extremely freeing for me to just be honest.
many of the people i know or associate with ARE very much upwardly mobile and seem to think my desire to have less, rather then more or better, is odd.
All due respect, Spartana, but it is odd. Us simple living folks have values very different from the upwardly-mobiles who have perpetuated the consumer culture that has run the American economy for maybe the last 50-60 years. We have been sold for generations that we are what we buy -- if you're successful, you buy a Lexus, not a Toyota. You get another 30-year mortgage for a bigger house in a nicer area. Those of us bucking the trend by riding bikes instead of driving cars and buying clothes at Goodwill instead of even Penney's threaten the order -- we cannot be controlled by money or status.
I think I get a bit of a break on this because I'm close enough to a typical early-retirement age that I can pass off some simple-living choices as saving money for retirement. Most of our friends have retirement on the horizon, but can't think about it for another 10 years or so because they're too much in debt and they like what that money buys. The irony -- or wakeup call, depending on which side one is on -- will be that DW and I can keep up our current lifestyle indefinitely. But unless our friends want to work till they drop, they will have to make some big (and likely unpleasant) decisions.
I should clarify my use of the word "witness" in my earlier post: I am not in people's faces about their economic choices. I wait until (or if) people ask about how my early retirement became possible before I tell them that's it's all a matter of choices. Some choices were made years ago; some more recently. What DW and I have done is not magic; it's simply been conscious choices. But I'm happy to tell people they do have some options if they can find their way off the hamster wheel.
I don't mind people thinking that I'm a bit odd or eccentric, so I blab all sort of things about the way I live to anyone who will listen. I'm at the age (mid 40s) where I don't care what people think of me. Some are curious about the how and why of it all, some not. Doesn't matter to me. However, shallow materialistic people aren't really people I hang out with or care to know.
All due respect, Spartana, but it is odd. Yes - that's what one of my heads told the other :-). I agree with you Steve and those of us trying to buck thoses materialistic trends are the odd man in the bunch (or are we the sane in a sea of insanity? Probably!). As Ihamo and other's pointed out, I may come across as judgemental to some friends (although I try very hard not to be and really don't care how they live their lives) and they may take my lifestyle as sort of an affront to their consumerism - and thus themselves personally. It's not of course, but I can see how it would look that way to others. So my goal is to not take anything they say to me as a personal insult, just a difference of opinion and let it go. If they ask me anything directly, then I'll answer honestly but like Tammy said, with less wordiness and without my personal emotional spin. I do get a little giddy and exuberant when talking about how to retire early :-)!
ApatheticNoMore
1-7-13, 1:49pm
If I talked about shopping at Walmart and the Goodwill, well I can definitely imagine people having a big problem with the Walmart part, and giving me a lecture on how badly they treat their workers and destroy communities and so on, luckily I don't actually shop there, so don't have to hide it like a guilty pleasure :~) Really, I'd be more likely to get that lecture than a purely status lecture.
All due respect, Spartana, but it is odd. Us simple living folks have values very different from the upwardly-mobiles who have perpetuated the consumer culture that has run the American economy for maybe the last 50-60 years.
Isn't that kind of over though, didn't that kind of die for most people after the last economic crash? Maybe not completely but as a real aspiration for most. Who can't see the writing on the wall and that things are probably going to get even more unfavorable economically? I did work at a company with fancy cars in the parking lot and international vacations often more than once a year. Now I work at a company where they bring their lunch to work nearly everyday, and few have the vacation time for out of the country trips. I'd actually happily take the prior situation back, but I'm not sure it's on offer.
It never comes up, so I have no clue.
I assume that I am.
Of course, a lot of what I do own is 'high end.' So perhaps I blend enough as to look normal.
It doesn't really come up often but I would think that from the outside it would appear we are either frugal or lower income since our cars are older and we do things ourselves when we can. It is important to us to live our beliefs so kind of hard to hide it. I try not to discuss my purchases to most I know though and share with only a few if I think I got a bargain. I know for a fact that DH's family thinks we are downright nuts because we haven't bought the latest iphone, don't have a flat screen TV and aren't really impressed with their latest acquisitions. DH and I were just discussing this last night - how his father idolizes my bil and how he lives vicariously through his son's latest purchases. Sometimes it gets me down that we can't keep up with the Joneses but I really do know that stuff isn't important.
Us simple living folks have values very different from the upwardly-mobiles who have perpetuated the consumer culture that has run the American economy for maybe the last 50-60 years.
Isn't that kind of over though, didn't that kind of die for most people after the last economic crash? Maybe not completely but as a real aspiration for most. Who can't see the writing on the wall and that things are probably going to get even more unfavorable economically?
Unfortunately, I don't think that mindset is gone. Maybe the "party's-never-gonna-stop" excess has faded some for the 99%. Maybe people are a little more pragmatic about the economy -- I notice I rarely see the term "starter house" in real estate ads anymore.
DD bought a house late last year. It's bigger and, to some extent, fancier than ours. Higher-priced, too, and she's not making in salary what I was making when I bought our house. SomedayToBeHusband (STBH) lives there too. His first purchases for the house? A couple of monster high-def TVs and satellite TV throughout the house. The two of them are rarely home. Friends of ours who have almost no retirement savings and who may be looking at one of them retiring next year for health reasons just bought a brand-new Acura CUV. Between the cruddy economy and the fear it could happen again and the general uncertainty of working anywhere today, you'd think there might be more reticence about going into debt. No, I think the buy-more mindset is alive and well.
And, frankly, business and the government want it that way. They want people to lust for a new smartphone even though they have a perfectly good phone. Pickup truck sales are up for the first time in since the Recession; some on pent-up demand for contractors; others because pickup trucks are the new American "full-size" sedan. If it weren't for people buying things, the U.S. economy would be in serious trouble.
I think the buy-more mindset is alive and well.
Sadly, it is very much alive where we are and seems really strong among the younger set. I see quite a few young couples driving around in Range Rovers and BMWs though I was so hopeful that the 2008 crash would bring some changes. Appearances remain very important apparently.
I listened to the travel guru Rick Steve's speak a while back. He was talking about Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. He said Americans need to jump over the barb wire fence to self-actualization. He compared Americans to Europeans in general terms. He says in European cultures once they get their food, shelter (much smaller than U.S.) and clothing, they look to self-actualization for happiness....they seek less work hours, spend more time on pursuit of hobbies, family time, arts, etc. He thinks Americans spend their time on the lower tiers of the hierarchy -- more stuff and more stuff and more stuff and never "jump over the barb wire fence" to self-actualization. I think it is so true....that bigger house, bigger tv, newer car, expensive clothes bring promises of happiness. And thus the consumerism is endless. So we work more hours. Who has time for self-actualization? Learning, creating, enjoying art and music? Much of that can be enjoyed without spending money. Makes sense to me.
I still do feel a little pressure among some friends to keep up with the Joneses. When conversation turns to the newest photography gear, well, I got what I got. I'm happy with it. But in a nation of serial upgraders, acknowledging that you purposely bought a camera designed five years ago seems odd. I usually don't say anything.
I like that term: "Serial upgraders".
I listened to the travel guru Rick Steve's speak a while back. He was talking about Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. He said Americans need to jump over the barb wire fence to self-actualization. He compared Americans to Europeans in general terms. He says in European cultures once they get their food, shelter (much smaller than U.S.) and clothing, they look to self-actualization for happiness....they seek less work hours, spend more time on pursuit of hobbies, family time, arts, etc. He thinks Americans spend their time on the lower tiers of the hierarchy -- more stuff and more stuff and more stuff and never "jump over the barb wire fence" to self-actualization. I think it is so true....that bigger house, bigger tv, newer car, expensive clothes bring promises of happiness. And thus the consumerism is endless. So we work more hours. Who has time for self-actualization? Learning, creating, enjoying art and music? Much of that can be enjoyed without spending money. Makes sense to me.
Somehow when I read this it occurred to me that the entire American system is like a big, overgrown episode of Hoarders. Granted, the people profiled on Hoarders are extreme, but it is like they are the most dramatic manifestation of a very widespread condition. So many people focusing on the accumulation of stuff to the detriment of everything else in their lives. I wonder if other countries/cultures seem to have the same prevalance of hoarding that the US does. Did the storage unit business originate in the US and what percentage of our economy is it? How much captial/life energy is tied up in stuff that no one uses. boggles the mind, really....
lhamo
You know, I just about lost it (laughing) when my sister told me that she's thinking of "alternating her dining room tables." YOu see, she has hers, her hsband's and our mom's so, she has three fancy dining tables (and chairs). She thought instead of having two in the basement, she could simply rotate through them.
Great idea.
Or how about not ahving three sets of dinign table/chairs?
anyway, I love my family. They are funny.
You know, I just about lost it (laughing) when my sister told me that she's thinking of "alternating her dining room tables." YOu see, she has hers, her hsband's and our mom's so, she has three fancy dining tables (and chairs). She thought instead of having two in the basement, she could simply rotate through them.
My ex-wife's paternal grandparents grew up in the Depression. They lived in a big L-shaped ranch-style house with a full basement (I mean it extended all the way down both legs of the L"). They had stuff, serious stuff. Closets full of clothing that no longer fit and was no longer in style. Old magazines, long unread. Home-canned goods which were so old they weren't "good" anymore. They literally had two of everything. Two deep freezers. Two upright pianos (one upstairs, one downstairs) :0! . There was no indication that they ever rotated through it all. I wasn't around for the eventual cleanup. But it made an indelible impression on me that there was such a thing as too much.
I'll be a minimalist when they drag me off to the Last Stop Rest Home, and maybe not even then. (What am I doing here?)
But in answer to Spartana's original question, I'd just shrug and answer that you can have either money or time, and I've chosen time. No one is likely to be offended by that.
Most of the people I know have "enough," and none of them are into one-upsmanship, though many of us like our stuff. (No really, I have five different kinds of Mod Podge--are you impressed? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/big_standart/biggrin.gif ) I can see where income disparities would be a problem if travel or expensive meals were part of your group culture.
Unfortunately the American economy is almost completely based on the consumer. If everyone were to change their habits away from that pattern of consumption it would have a profound, and for a good while negative, impact on the economy. We might be better off in the long run, but it could take a generation or two to get to that point. There is simply no quick fix available.
ApatheticNoMore
1-8-13, 12:17pm
I can see where income disparities would be a problem if travel or expensive meals were part of your group culture
Yea really I have to be just as careful with this, careful when asking people out to lunch (nowhere particularly expensive though not fast food), because they might not have money this month. Have to be sensitive that people are struggling economically ...
I'll be a minimalist when they drag me off to the Last Stop Rest Home, and maybe not even then. (What am I doing here?)
But in answer to Spartana's original question, I'd just shrug and answer that you can have either money or time, and I've chosen time. No one is likely to be offended by that.
Most of the people I know have "enough," and none of them are into one-upsmanship, though many of us like our stuff. (No really, I have five different kinds of Mod Podge--are you impressed? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/big_standart/biggrin.gif ) I can see where income disparities would be a problem if travel or expensive meals were part of your group culture.
Can't be impressed... what is mod podge?
As I understand it, it is the brush on product for decopauge. It dries clear. Long ago varnish was used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoupage
Can't be impressed... what is mod podge?
That was the joke--what passes for conspicuous consumption in my circle.
I listened to the travel guru Rick Steve's speak a while back. He was talking about Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. He said Americans need to jump over the barb wire fence to self-actualization. He compared Americans to Europeans in general terms. He says in European cultures once they get their food, shelter (much smaller than U.S.) and clothing, they look to self-actualization for happiness....they seek less work hours, spend more time on pursuit of hobbies, family time, arts, etc. He thinks Americans spend their time on the lower tiers of the hierarchy -- more stuff and more stuff and more stuff and never "jump over the barb wire fence" to self-actualization. I think it is so true....that bigger house, bigger tv, newer car, expensive clothes bring promises of happiness. And thus the consumerism is endless. So we work more hours. Who has time for self-actualization? Learning, creating, enjoying art and music? Much of that can be enjoyed without spending money. Makes sense to me.
I agree with this. I think most Americans think that things will bring about self-actualization and happiness. A case of faulty reasoning.
Am I my true simple living self with others? Absolutely, and my mantra from day one has always been, "if people don't like it, then they can lump it, because I'm not making exceptions or excuses for who I am or the way I am".
As for what others think/do, I tend not to place much emphasis on that, because it's an empty prospect, and as I age and my wisdom grows, I'm not galvanized by how others live or do.
...
As for what others think/do, I tend not to place much emphasis on that, because it's an empty prospect, and as I age and my wisdom grows, I'm not galvanized by how others live or do.
Exactly. My meandering path is my own.
Hey, I at least had to applaud my sister's creativity in deciding to rotate through her tables rather than just storing two of them all the time and bringing them out when they have big parties (and putting the living room furniture down in the basement for those parties.
Also, I'm not against "stuff" but I think there is such thing as "too much." But what that is for each person will vary. :)
I listened to the travel guru Rick Steve's speak a while back. He was talking about Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. He said Americans need to jump over the barb wire fence to self-actualization. He compared Americans to Europeans in general terms. He says in European cultures once they get their food, shelter (much smaller than U.S.) and clothing, they look to self-actualization for happiness....they seek less work hours, spend more time on pursuit of hobbies, family time, arts, etc. He thinks Americans spend their time on the lower tiers of the hierarchy -- more stuff and more stuff and more stuff and never "jump over the barb wire fence" to self-actualization. I think it is so true....that bigger house, bigger tv, newer car, expensive clothes bring promises of happiness. And thus the consumerism is endless. So we work more hours. Who has time for self-actualization? Learning, creating, enjoying art and music? Much of that can be enjoyed without spending money. Makes sense to me. We watched His Christmas special in December and although I've seen it many times, this year it realy struck me how simple their gifting celebrations were. I had wondered how real that was in most european homes, but we have decided to emulate it anyway. We live simply, compared to those we know, but we still spend a ridiculous amount at Yuletide and this year it bothered me more than most.
In regards to the OP, I am peeking out of Lurkdom to say that I do tend to sort of hide my true self with my husband. He does live simply, but I think he isn't as committed to it as I am and I think he just can't comprehend how badly I really do want to toss over most of our stuff, and how simple I would live if I were single or if he was onboard totally. I love him and want to keep the peace though so I bite my tongue a lot and continue to vacuum around the living room monster furniture and cook meals that suit him. I'm honest about how I want to live but I think most people, including him, think I kid because they just can't fathom it.
awakenedsoul
1-8-13, 11:49pm
I am, but I see what you're saying. I think I give off a mixed message. I ride my bike everywhere, and drive a Kia Rio. But, I wear very nice cashmere leggings and sweaters ( I bought at after Christmas sales ten years ago) with old, elegant, inherited jewelry. I hate to leave it sitting at home. I don't really care what people think. My dad says I have champagne taste on a beer income. I have beautiful antiques that I found at thrift stores and at the Salvation Army. My mom keeps giving me her extra clothing because she's a shopaholic. It's not really me, but it's nice quality.
I live the European lifestyle that Rose mentioned. I'm very happy doing my yoga, reading, knitting, and developing my talents. I don't need or want any more stuff. I have much less than most people in this area, and I like it that way. I lived in Europe for three years and was very happy there. I noticed they just rotate a few very nice outfits. Good fabric: silk and wool. They go for quality, not quantity. I'm the same way. I love good food, too.
We only eat out for lunch, drive a Civic with almost 200000 miles, have not upgraded to a fancier or bigger house, and wear old comfortable clothes and buy my hobby fabric at rummage and garage sales. But I am taking a business class (on sale) nonstop flight to Japan for our trip.
It is all about rational decisions and it varies person to person.
I am very proud to say that I shop for things on the curbside and then renovate them, use my crockpot and freezer, will be having a big vegetable garden, and learning how to can, love trolling for free things off craigslist and freecycle. I don't really care what anyone thinks! These choices help us to save for great trips, home renovations, weekend trips out of town, etc. I am trying to get hubby interested in going to Goodwill, and he is slowly coming around to it! I have changed over all our cleaning supplies to vinegar, water, and some of the Mr. Clean multipurpose cleaner....he didn't like the smell at first, but loves the savings! I am proud of what I am able to learn, salvage, renovate, and save. Some of my friends think I am funny, but whatever....they are in debt, upside down on their homes, and not able to take any vacations.
Spreading the word, planting a seed...As long as you aren't speechifying about your moral superiority, you may influence people who like and admire you already to adopt a few useful habits. Or maybe they'll just love you for your quirkiness.
Life_is_Simple
1-9-13, 10:51am
I find this thread intriguing, especially the part where Rose talks about Rick Steve's comments about Europeans seeking self-actualization, while Americans seek stuff.
Also, I don't have extravagant friends. Maybe I need to get out more? ;)
One of my friends has a worry about money, so he underspends, and his savings build up quickly. He is also a minimalist.
Another friend does all his own home renovations - like putting in plumbing, floors, etc. He saves a lot of money, and just has a few fun things he spends money on.
My relatives like to shop at thrift stores, and MOST of us don't care about stuff.
I feel I am missing out on the anthropological study of the opulent :D
HomemadeChange
1-9-13, 11:23am
Spartana,
I think you hit the nail on the head with your last post. While you may not be in agreement with or supportive of your friends' spending choices you are still able to be supportive of said friends as people. My husband and I started a financial plan that limited our frivolous spending tremendously 6 months ago. In turn, this limited the amount of activities we chose to participate in with our friends. Some friends took it personally and others did not. Some friends sort of scoffed at our new lifestyle, others pitied and others joined us by choosing to spend less! "To each his/her own" as they say. As of late, I have chosen to talk less about it and lead as an example when possible. To those that think we are nuts, I think the feeling is sort of mutual--- we think it's nuts to buy more than you can afford. With that said, we still love those nutty friends. I must say even some of the naysayers six months ago are becoming believers now as they continue to see us build savings instead of debt and "stuff".
I am trying to get hubby interested in going to Goodwill, and he is slowly coming around to it!
DH would never step foot into a thrift store until a few years ago; several times though I bought him some really nice shirts and brought them home. He was amazed and is now a convert. He also looks there for his hobby of collecting old cameras.
To those that think we are nuts, I think the feeling is sort of mutual--- we think it's nuts to buy more than you can afford. With that said, we still love those nutty friends. I must say even some of the naysayers six months ago are becoming believers now as they continue to see us build savings instead of debt and "stuff".
We have both family and friends who are on the consumer wheel. We love them anyway. If they see something attractive about our simple(r) lifestyle, so be it.
By the way, Jessica, welcome to the forums!
HomemadeChange
1-9-13, 12:32pm
Thanks Steve. A friend reached out just a few minutes ago tell me that her mother was implementing the system we (myself, my husband, said friend and her husband) have begun using as she has seen it payoff so much in our lives. Great news!
And, frankly, business and the government want it that way.
Dan Gilbert was on NPR this last weekend. If you don't know Dan he has done a lot of research on happiness.
http://blog.ted.com/2006/09/26/happiness_exper/
Basically people are just as happy even when they don't get what they want, and so conversely getting stuff doesn't make you happier. This brought up your point- a lot of economic activity is driven by people thinking they will be happier buying something.
Spartana,
I think you hit the nail on the head with your last post. While you may not be in agreement with or supportive of your friends' spending choices you are still able to be supportive of said friends as people. My husband and I started a financial plan that limited our frivolous spending tremendously 6 months ago. In turn, this limited the amount of activities we chose to participate in with our friends. Some friends took it personally and others did not. Some friends sort of scoffed at our new lifestyle, others pitied and others joined us by choosing to spend less! "To each his/her own" as they say. As of late, I have chosen to talk less about it and lead as an example when possible. To those that think we are nuts, I think the feeling is sort of mutual--- we think it's nuts to buy more than you can afford. With that said, we still love those nutty friends. I must say even some of the naysayers six months ago are becoming believers now as they continue to see us build savings instead of debt and "stuff".
Hi Jessica - thanks for the comments. I actually do support any one's choice as far as their lifestyle or spending habits go - even if they are very different from mine - I just don't really want to spend or live like they do irregardless of how much money I had. Even if I were a millionaire I would live the same basic way I do because it's what makes me happy. I try to explain that to my friends but I get the eye roll. But to each his own. I'm very happy with my lifestyle choice and try to be supportive of other's choices, but yeah, sometimes the comments get a little overwelming and I have to tune them out. Glad to hear you and DH have found something that works well!
If I talked about shopping at Walmart and the Goodwill, well I can definitely imagine people having a big problem with the Walmart part, and giving me a lecture on how badly they treat their workers and destroy communities and so on, luckily I don't actually shop there, so don't have to hide it like a guilty pleasure :~) Really, I'd be more likely to get that lecture than a purely status lecture.
I think if they lectured me on the evils of Walmart i would be fine with that, but that's not the case. It's more about the preceived quality and label of the product I'm buying. For example: A friend asked me where I got my cute tee shirt and I said Walmart. Told her I bought a bunch in various colors for about $4 each (also got running shorts and workout pants and capris for around $8 each). She did the eye roll and told me how she could never shop at Walmart or buy discount clothing, because only designer labels are worthy, quality, etc... I told her it was by Danskin (is Danskin designer?) and she said it was probably a Walmart knock-off. In any case, I don't think she would care if it were made by child labor in some torture chamber in China as long as it had a fancy named label on it. But - being the new and improved Spartana - I no longer go into a discussion about it and just let the comments go.
We do get hassled a lot for our choices.
Instead of renting a whole house as big as our company's allowance we've rented an apartment for much less. Even those in the office that processes our housing information thought it was a mistake and tried to push us to get a bigger place. =0 Usually when people give us a hard time I do inform them I have better things to do with my time than house cleaning and yard work. Better things to do with my money than pay for increased utilities for heating/AC.
Simply learning the language has really saved us a lot of money and hassle here, yet we are given a hard time for this, too.
"Why learn Japanese, You don't need it to get around?"
sigh. The list is long, but I don't care if they think I'm crazy. I can only live the life I know best. Thankfully some of my 'crazyness' has rubbed off on some of them and they are then coming to me to learn various simple living things. :)
I think if they lectured me on the evils of Walmart i would be fine with that, but that's not the case. It's more about the preceived quality and label of the product I'm buying. For example: A friend asked me where I got my cute tee shirt and I said Walmart. Told her I bought a bunch in various colors for about $4 each (also got running shorts and workout pants and capris for around $8 each). She did the eye roll and told me how she could never shop at Walmart or buy discount clothing, because only designer labels are worthy, quality, etc... I told her it was by Danskin (is Danskin designer?) and she said it was probably a Walmart knock-off. In any case, I don't think she would care if it were made by child labor in some torture chamber in China as long as it had a fancy named label on it. But - being the new and improved Spartana - I no longer go into a discussion about it and just let the comments go.
From what I gather, Wal-Mart bought the rights to a number of what used to be well-respected brands--White Stag, Bobbie Brooks, and others--and slapped their names on cheap goods. Danskin used to produce good quality workout wear targeting dancers, if I remember correctly. It's been my experience that quality, label, and price have only limited correlation.
Wildflower
1-10-13, 4:50am
I am always myself with others, but I am a quiet person. I don't talk much about my lifestyle, but others observe and often comment - most generally the comments are good. And I am always willing to discuss when someone asks questions about how I live....
From what I gather, Wal-Mart bought the rights to a number of what used to be well-respected brands--White Stag, Bobbie Brooks, and others--and slapped their names on cheap goods. Danskin used to produce good quality workout wear targeting dancers, if I remember correctly. It's been my experience that quality, label, and price have only limited correlation.
Indeed. And even when the original manufacturer's name is on the product, it has been made to Walmart (or Sears/Kmart or Target or Best Buy or Home Depot or Lowe's or...) specifications. We bought a Kenmore water softener once because it was made for them by a local firm (Ecowater). It was essentially DOA and we ended up returning it to Sears and getting an Ecowater-labeled softener for the same price. Inside, gears which were plastic on the Kenmore were brass on the Ecowater, the cabinet was thicker on the Ecowater,...
Some manufacturers are smart enough to introduce a new brand -- for example, "Estate" (ironically) is Whirlpool's "builder-grade" line of appliances -- fewer bells and whistles, older technology, shorter warranties. Henkels cutlery makes several lines of knives. Some, made for stores like Kohl's and Target, which like to sell the name brand at a discount, use a different logo than the usual Henkels "twins" logo, marking it as one of their lower lines.
So, yes, quality, label, and price have only limited correlation.
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