View Full Version : Separated by a common language
As an American I am often amused by British irritation over "Americanisms" or usage of the English language. Often examples such as "Do the math" instead of "Do the maths" or "alternate" instead of "alternative" or "I'm good" instead of "I'm well." are given. It seems to irritate some Brit's no end. (Wait was 'no end' an Americanism???) Anyway, I'm amused because I think most Americans find British-isms either charming or just different and don't treat it with irritation. So,my question is: Is it just Americanisms that irritate Brits, or is it also Australianisms, or New Zealandisms or South Africanisms that irritate as well, and if so, whatever could they be?
ToomuchStuff
1-7-13, 1:10am
Go into a book store, and ask for a English to English translation dictionary and watch the stares you get! (BTDT) I found out, years later, they call it the British to American dictionary.
Been watching some British stuff on YouTube, and it does seem weird on some of the terms, I was not familiar with.
I've learned more Brit English over here in Japan than I ever did in the states. Many of the English teachers are not from the US so the vocabulary used is what their teacher taught them.
I received a compliment on my muffler and immediately looked at my car thinking my friend was being facetious :|(
Was looking for an int'l moving company here with no luck until about 4 weeks into my search I thought to look for REmovers! And there they were :)
Thought I'd pick up a copy of the first Harry Potter book at a used bookstore here but wasn't sure if the first book was "The Sorcerer's Stone" or "The Philosopher's Stone"? Of course, this bookstore had both available :)
When a Japanese friend chooses to speak English I often will use both the Brit & US term in a sentence because I am unsure which English they know...such as chemist/pharmacy...
It's been an interesting learning experience :)
IshbelRobertson
1-7-13, 4:50am
It doesn't irritate me. In fact, I find it interesting to note the slight variations in word usage and grammar. For instance Americans I've met have used 'gotten'. Whilst I know it was used in British English in the past, it is no longer, although I have seen it creeping into spoken English by some who are obviously watching a lot of US television programmes. Some of my online American friends have commented on the word 'whilst'. I smile and continue to use it!
I am actively involved in the preservation of Lallans and the Doric. Two 'other' languages in Scotland, which are sadly being lost due to standardised English, overlayed by some with Aussie and American slang. Whilst there is disagreement whether they are different languages or merely dialects, I fall into the first category.
Live and let live, say I!
What I DO hate, however is to be called a Brit. This expression was coined by the IRA as a derogatory term for the authorities in Northern Ireland and parliament. I know it is in common parlance, but I still hate it!
Miss Cellane
1-7-13, 7:04am
IshbelRobertson--I think a lot of Americans have no idea what to call people who live in the United Kingdom. (I'm one of them.) If you know someone is from Scotland, or England, or Wales, it is easy to call them Scottish or English or Welsh.
But if you are referring to the people of the United Kingdom as a whole--what do you call them? What name do you use when you suspect someone is from the UK, but you don't know which part?
And the whole British thing? I have no idea who, exactly, that is supposed to apply to.
As for US vs. the English spoken on the other side of the pond--I used to work in a translation agency. We had to translate some things into Canadian English, UK English, Australian English, New Zealand English, Hong Kong English. Just enough subtle variations that our clients wanted native speakers of those areas to "fix" the language. Which wasn't nearly as difficult as dealing with the many different versions of Spanish that there are.
IshbelRobertson
1-7-13, 7:20am
We are all british and from the UK, at least for the present, if independence comes to fruition, then there would be a dissolution of these United Kingdoms!
If you know the British person's nationality, ie English or Scots, or Welsh or Northern Irish, then we appreciate it if we are called by our real nationality. However, what we from the Celtic fringes of our nation dislike is when 'English' is used as a synonym for British. I certainly don't mind being called British, because that's what I am, but as I've said... Just don't call me a Brit!
ETA. When I say I don't mind being called British, I am speaking only for myself, many of my fellow Scots And Welsh and Norn Irish DO MIND!)
In my travels it was interesting to notice that when it came up - which wasn't often, but it did - that it was NON-native speakers of English who were ready to lecture me on how British English is superior to American English. As you can imagine, that didn't go over very well. Like me telling someone how Mexican or Costa Rican Spanish is inferior to Spain's own Castellano.
I'm with Ishbel! Live and let live! At least we don't have an official committee deciding what's right and wrong in English like Spanish does. Do other languages have that?
IshbelRobertson
1-7-13, 9:35am
France used to, but they repealed some parts of it, I believe. Every year some French institution abhors the anglicisation of their language, to little avail, I suspect.
I know a few Spaniards who affect not to understand what non-Spanish Spanish speakers are saying. Ditto with
Portugese hearing Brazilians speak their language. I believe Iceland still has a Law stating what words can be used if they are of foreign origins and they used to be particularly fussy regarding the inclusion of foreign names, no Britneys or Kylies on Iceland!
And, talking of Britney. I cannot stand non-standard spellings of ordinary names and place names. The place is Brittany. Is it considered clever, one wonders, or an inability to spell?
I always find it interesting to see/hear English words used in another language that you would think had equivalent words for the item/idea. For instance, it's hard to believe the French did not have useful words for Saturday and Sunday as an entity, but you hear 'le weekend' instead. We were in the Azores a couple of years ago and saw a car advertising a firm that did public relations. Every word on the car was in Portuguese except 'marketing'. I have to think people are marketed to in the Azores and Portugal. Technical terms -- 'furopi disuku' in Japanese (the small removable storage media people used to have on their PCs) I can understand. But 'weekend'? 'Marketing'? 'Sci-fi'?
ToomuchStuff
1-7-13, 10:36am
And, talking of Britney. I cannot stand non-standard spellings of ordinary names and place names. The place is Brittany. Is it considered clever, one wonders, or an inability to spell?
In this country, it is probably from one, either with bad spelling, or a wanting to be unique. As an example, how would you say this name (yes, it is an actual name):
L-a ?
Not a typo, the name is L-a.
A teacher was being yelled at, by this girls mom, who couldn't understand why no one could ever pronounce her daughters name, Ladasha.
IshbelRobertson
1-7-13, 11:18am
Really?
Or are you pulling this foreigner's leg?:cool:
In this country, it is probably from one, either with bad spelling, or a wanting to be unique. As an example, how would you say this name (yes, it is an actual name):
L-a ?
Not a typo, the name is L-a.
Names, like passwords, become more secure with the addition of a punctuation mark. I fear the practice is trending up.
Gr@egg
We are all british and from the UK, at least for the present, if independence comes to fruition, then there would be a dissolution of these United Kingdoms!
If you know the British person's nationality, ie English or Scots, or Welsh or Northern Irish, then we appreciate it if we are called by our real nationality. However, what we from the Celtic fringes of our nation dislike is when 'English' is used as a synonym for British. I certainly don't mind being called British, because that's what I am, but as I've said... Just don't call me a Brit!
ETA. When I say I don't mind being called British, I am speaking only for myself, many of my fellow Scots And Welsh and Norn Irish DO MIND!)Ishbel - The US Coast Guard use to have a LORAN communications station on the Isle of Skye that I stayed at for a bit. I was really surprised that the locals wanted to be called something besides Scottish (can't remember what now but you may know - maybe Herbridians). I spend a lot of time travelling around both Britain and Ireland (Republic and North) and was always confused about what to call the locals (and I was born in England). I have noticed that some people from the UK do get a bit miffed at Americans for their improper use of the British language but many seem to find our "Americanisms" kind of charming and fun too.
OOPS!! Just realized that the coast guard station I was talking about was on Shetland Island. Guess they don't want to be called Hebridians after all :-)!
Really?
Or are you pulling this foreigner's leg?:cool:
Snopes wasn't able to find any evidence of such a name. It sounds like one of those apocryphal stories like Welfare Cadillac Woman. http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp
IshbelRobertson
1-7-13, 1:42pm
Natives of The Orkney Islands, or The Orkneys as we call them, are Orcadians. People from The Shetlands are called Zetlanders (although some foreigners do use Shetlanders!)
As i have said, I have no problems with the word usage of other English speaking nationalities, whether South African, Australian or Americans. Just so long as I'm not expected to use them or mark the work of my students as correct!
France used to, but they repealed some parts of it, I believe. Every year some French institution abhors the anglicisation of their language, to little avail, I suspect.
I know a few Spaniards who affect not to understand what non-Spanish Spanish speakers are saying. Ditto with
Portugese hearing Brazilians speak their language. I believe Iceland still has a Law stating what words can be used if they are of foreign origins and they used to be particularly fussy regarding the inclusion of foreign names, no Britneys or Kylies on Iceland!
And, talking of Britney. I cannot stand non-standard spellings of ordinary names and place names. The place is Brittany. Is it considered clever, one wonders, or an inability to spell?
Iceland's naming law is being challenged. I didn't even know there were naming laws.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/03/iceland-name-fight.html
IshbelRobertson
1-7-13, 4:12pm
Hmmm...
I seem to recall that Icelanders' nammes always end in 'son' or 'dottir'. None of that takung a father's name. I think it used to be that Icelandic electoral rolls and telephone books listed people by their first names!
I've learned more Brit English over here in Japan than I ever did in the states. Many of the English teachers are not from the US so the vocabulary used is what their teacher taught them.
I received a compliment on my muffler and immediately looked at my car thinking my friend was being facetious :|(
Was looking for an int'l moving company here with no luck until about 4 weeks into my search I thought to look for REmovers! And there they were :)
Thought I'd pick up a copy of the first Harry Potter book at a used bookstore here but wasn't sure if the first book was "The Sorcerer's Stone" or "The Philosopher's Stone"? Of course, this bookstore had both available :)
When a Japanese friend chooses to speak English I often will use both the Brit & US term in a sentence because I am unsure which English they know...such as chemist/pharmacy...
It's been an interesting learning experience :)
And that's an interesting story!:)
Iceland's naming law is being challenged. I didn't even know there were naming laws.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/03/iceland-name-fight.html
I knew Germany had it.
ToomuchStuff
1-8-13, 12:53am
Really?
Or are you pulling this foreigner's leg?:cool:
REALLY, NOT PULLING LEG. (Teacher and her husband are friends of mine).
But in the USA, we do live in a culture of no national language and freedom of choice, etc.
IshbelRobertson
1-8-13, 6:05am
So do we.. Hence the appearance of our own made-up names, or those heard via TV or music... (Shudder at some of those, I must admit)
I proudly pronounce these French words:
valet as Val-et
claret as Clar-et
singing out that end "t" in solidarity with my British cousins. Don't need no steenkin' Frenchyfied words around here.
Garkon! Bring me a clarett, willya. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/viannen/viannen_102.gif
ToomuchStuff
1-8-13, 1:03pm
I proudly pronounce these French words:
valet as Val-et
claret as Clar-et
singing out that end "t" in solidarity with my British cousins. Don't need no steenkin' Frenchyfied words around here.
You do realize that English over there, grew in part out of French? It wouldn't be English otherwise, but Anglo Saxon.
You do realize that English over there, grew in part out of French? It wouldn't be English otherwise, but Anglo Saxon.
Yeah, as one o' them Frenchified Stuarts, she realizes.
IshbelRobertson
1-8-13, 5:32pm
Hey, I'm a Stewart of Appin!
Many of our culinary terms are strongly influenced by the Auld Alliance.
Our double serving dishes? Ashets... From the French assiette.
Our butchery follows the French, not English style. Gigot lamb chops, pronounced jiggott in Scots.
We use lots of French terms, Scottified through centuries!
It's a veritable family reunion!
IshbelRobertson
1-8-13, 5:59pm
Naaaah, no foreigners in my family :welcome:
REALLY, NOT PULLING LEG. (Teacher and her husband are friends of mine).
But in the USA, we do live in a culture of no national language and freedom of choice, etc.
Maybe yes, maybe no, but that whole L-a story is up on Snopes as an urban legend. I've heard it multiple times.
There are plenty of verified Ladashas but no girls with the name verified as L-a, although after the supposed urban legend came out around 2008, there are probably now a few 5 year old girls answering to L-a.
Garkon! Bring me a clarett, willya. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/viannen/viannen_102.gif
That one made me laugh out loud! Yes, I spell mine the French way, Stuart.
But wouldn't it be "Eldasha?" Or "Eldashay?"
Speaking of such names, apparently Neveah (spelled backward: heaven) was popular in some circles a few years back. I only know this because a number of the poor little tykes met untimely ends and made the news.
But wouldn't it be "Eldasha?" Or "Eldashay?"
Speaking of such names, apparently Neveah (spelled backward: heaven) was popular in some circles a few years back. I only know this because a number of the poor little tykes met untimely ends and made the news.
What??? It's true, Neveah was trending heavily about 3 to 5 years ago, but seems to have tapered off. But, what untimely ends? Just coincidence or specifically targeting Neveahas?
What??? It's true, Neveah was trending heavily about 3 to 5 years ago, but seems to have tapered off. But, what untimely ends? Just coincidence or specifically targeting Neveahas?
Oops. That would be Nevaeh. Apparently, reverse spelling is not my forte. As I recall, they were abuse/murders, which made the name particularly ironic. There was another lurid case involving Rilya (Remember I Love You Always) Wilson, whose short life was horrific. What happens when you read too many true crime tales...Me, I like nice serviceable names. Like Jane.
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