View Full Version : 10 year olds being arrested in Texas for behaving their age, now have misdemeanors...
gimmethesimplelife
1-16-13, 1:40pm
I was thinking about not posting this, but another reason the Santa arrest in Austin from another thread was so upsetting to me is that I ran across an article online stating that ten year olds in Texas are being arrested for normal childhood behavior and being given misdemeanors - for infractions such as a young girl spraying cologne on her neck, or a boy yelling over to his friends, or a child dropping crumbs on the floor of the cafeteria at school and not picking them up.
I am going to post the url address (?) for this article for those who care to read it. I can't begin to tell you how upsetting this is to me. But I will post this for those who care to look at it.
http://gu.com/p/34hby - I think you have to type this into your browser and this will pull up the article.
All I can say is after reading this is, I would want to homeschool any kids I had - if I had kids, which I don't.
Before I go off into what I think about this - and those of you who know my posts probably already can guess what I have to say about it - I'm much more curious as to what others think of this....please let me know if this info does not pull up the article and I will try to figure out how to link it. Rob
Coming back to add - Cool, it worked, so now I know how to link to an article!
Gardenarian
1-16-13, 5:09pm
The link worked fine.
This is one of the most dismaying articles I have ever read. This is an absolute disgrace, and I am shocked that this is happening in the U.S.
WTF??? Why aren't the people in Texas up in arms? What the heck are they smoking down there?
I couldn't make the link work but i do remember a few years ago that a teacher in Calif wanted to bring a 5 year old boy up on sexual harassment charges because he kissed a 5 year old girl in his class on the cheek. I don't know what happened to that but it was just about the most asinine thing I have ever heard in my life! That's probably similair to what's happening in Texas.
I couldn't make the link work but i do remember a few years ago that a teacher in Calif wanted to bring a 5 year old boy up on sexual assualt charges because he kissed a 5 year old girl in his class on the cheek. I don't know what happened to that but it was just about the most asinine thing I have ever heard in my life! That's probably similair to what's happening in Texas.
I just googled boy brought up on sexual assualt charges for kissing girl and there were links to a whole bunch of other states that had done the same thing. In most cases the boys were ages 5 - 6.
I think it's just plain stupidity of the punishment model of education running amok.
gimmethesimplelife
1-16-13, 5:33pm
Ok, so the feedback I have gotten so far is that this is over the line.....Good, so it's not just me that finds this a cause for concern then. I think I should have posted this first, then Austin Santa, but this article upset me so much, I didn't want to post it here for awhile. For those who couldn't get the link to work, and if you are interested, I think you can type http://gu.com/p/34hby into your browser and get results, if not, I will get the longer link and post that.....
Pretty chilling stuff, no? I still think Austin is a cool place and has a lot to offer and to see and do, but I'm seeing a dark side here, too. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-16-13, 5:35pm
The link worked fine.
This is one of the most dismaying articles I have ever read. This is an absolute disgrace, and I am shocked that this is happening in the U.S.
WTF??? Why aren't the people in Texas up in arms? What the heck are they smoking down there?Thank you. I feel the same way....Why I find this so horrible and scary is that we are talking of ten year old children here having normal childhood behavior be criminalized. I just can't summarize in a few words how horrible I find this. Rob PS What I don't think is getting across here is that this may hinder these children who have been arrested in their futures, with regards to employment - I don't know if Texas allows for expungement or not, and even if it does, I understand the arrest still shows up anyway? Just no charges - but I'm not 100% on this so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
I haven't had time to check it out beyond reading the link (remember, never trust a single source!). If it is true I'm not sure I have an expletive in my vocabulary that would express how stupid I think it is. If my tax dollars were spent on this or if my children were subjected to it I would certainly be up in arms. So to speak.
fidgiegirl
1-16-13, 6:58pm
I heard a very interesting podcast on the same topic about a year ago, also produced in the UK.
Some interesting further reading on the "school to prison pipeline":
ACLU (http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice/school-prison-pipeline)
Rethinking Schools (http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/26_02/edit262.shtml)
Washington Post (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-13/local/35812364_1_honor-student-school-to-prison-pipeline-civil-rights)
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School-to-prison_pipeline)
gimmethesimplelife
1-16-13, 7:07pm
I heard a very interesting podcast on the same topic about a year ago, also produced in the UK.
Some interesting further reading on the "school to prison pipeline":
ACLU (http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice/school-prison-pipeline)
Rethinking Schools (http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/26_02/edit262.shtml)
Washington Post (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-13/local/35812364_1_honor-student-school-to-prison-pipeline-civil-rights)
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School-to-prison_pipeline)Kelli, Thank You for the links you provided. I have read one of them so far and I am just.....I don't know, very grateful I don't have kids, very grateful to be middle-age, and very very very chilled. This sure isn't the same America as it was in the early to mid 80's when I was in high school. Very scary stuff and I think any parent reading this might seriously think about home schooling or perhaps having their kids do high school online to avoid this. I know there are online high schools offered in Arizona, and there is even one here for GLBT youth.....This might be an option and a way around this. But....very chilling nonetheless and I don't like the implications I get from this.....Rob
Simplicity
1-16-13, 7:20pm
OMG! Seriously?? That is ridiculous! If this is indicative of the future of the US (and other countries that seem to follow in the US footsteps) I am NOT looking forward to what is to come!
I am in Texas. So the BULLYING of the girl was ok? Excuse my Texan but WTH????
gimmethesimplelife
1-16-13, 8:51pm
I am in Texas. So the BULLYING of the girl was ok? Excuse my Texan but WTH????Yes, I picked up on that, too. What kind of messages is that young lady getting from this ordeal and how is this going to shape her future? Were she my daughter, I'd be pulling her out of public school so fast....(this is not to knock her parents in any way).....Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-16-13, 8:52pm
OMG! Seriously?? That is ridiculous! If this is indicative of the future of the US (and other countries that seem to follow in the US footsteps) I am NOT looking forward to what is to come!I'm not either, I'm really not. Rob
Haven't read all the links, but the general scenarios were confirmed to me by a friend who is a recently retired juvenile probation officer. Bottom line is that our society has criminalized behavior that in decades past would have gotten a kid a lecture by a police officer and/or punishment by the kid's parents.
But once the kids are handcuffed and fingerprinted, it gets them into the legal system with a record that may or may not follow them. Craziness.
Upon reflection, I would guess this is the logical consequence of the combination of zero tolerance policies and no corporal punishment (outsourcing of discipline).
I am not a big fan of corporal punishment, and believe there are plenty of other ways to create discipline without striking a child.
I am not a big fan of corporal punishment, and believe there are plenty of other ways to create discipline without striking a child.I would agree, but it looks like some schools have simply outsourced discipline to their local police departments rather than explore in-house methods.
I am not a big fan of corporal punishment, and believe there are plenty of other ways to create discipline without striking a child.
+1 - if it's not appropriate or effective to do to adults, it's definitely not appropriate to do to children.
I would agree, but it looks like some schools have simply outsourced discipline to their local police departments rather than explore in-house methods.
Agreed. My guess is that it has a lot to do with our overly litigious society. I think the school districts can't afford to be sued and have figured out a way to pass the risk to police departments.
I would agree, but it looks like some schools have simply outsourced discipline to their local police departments rather than explore in-house methods.
I suspect what we are seeing is the result of parents outsourcing discipline to their schools...
I started a private school here. It is essentially non-violent in teaching and practice. Kids who are out of line and who do not respond to non-violent correction are sent home. If their parents cannot remedy the situation, the kids are not allowed back. No refunds either.
In 10ish years, we haven't had many issues, the expectations are very clear.
gimmethesimplelife
1-17-13, 11:46pm
Agreed. My guess is that it has a lot to do with our overly litigious society. I think the school districts can't afford to be sued and have figured out a way to pass the risk to police departments.What chills me is here these children now have criminal records which could possibly follow them and make their lives difficult once they move on as an adult - is this acceptable? Should we as a society be OK with this? I know there is some good happening, matter of fact I posted on some good recently here in Arizona with the Governor here agreeing to expand Medicaid coverage for lower income Arizonans. But I read something like this article, and it make me lose so much faith....makes me just go through the motions. I wonder if these kids are feeling that? Just going through the motions and feeling no real faith or hope.....Rob
Just going through the motions and feeling no real faith or hope.....RobFaith in what? Hope for what? Government and politics are merely tools we use to get things we want from other people and protect ourselves from other people trying to get things they want from us. Putting government in the role of Divine Providence, some sort of great extended family, or even your own character and will seems to be a pretty good guarantee of disappointment.
gimmethesimplelife
1-18-13, 1:25pm
Faith in what? Hope for what? Government and politics are merely tools we use to get things we want from other people and protect ourselves from other people trying to get things they want from us. Putting government in the role of Divine Providence, some sort of great extended family, or even your own character and will seems to be a pretty good guarantee of disappointment.How about faith in the future, that there is even a reason to bother trying or for bothering to give your life to the United States? I gotta say if I were one of these young people I would be seriously thinking about getting out of the United States - provided I could get through the school system without being arrested. I would also live in wariness of being arrested and life would be a constant balance of drop out to save my sanity vs. staying in and running the risk of being arrested and having my life altered, VS. Dropping out and having less chance to immigrate out of this insanity. That is what this situation these kids are facing boils down to for me, pure and simple. This is why I bring up faith and hope - imagine being that young and seeing this for what it is and struggling to find a way to keep going anyway. Horrible. Rob
How about faith in the future, that there is even a reason to bother trying or for bothering to give your life to the United States?
Unsure of the context intended in "give your life to the United States". It's never asked for mine. I am sure that the future is what you make it. Obviously your path can be impacted by others, but you are still steering your own ship. That's true for people in the US, Canada, Zimbabwe...
I gotta say if I were one of these young people I would be seriously thinking about getting out of the United States...
There is a constant line of young people from all over the world waiting to come TO the US. Immigration might provide some clues about what its like in other places.
gimmethesimplelife
1-18-13, 1:44pm
Unsure of the context intended in "give your life to the United States". It's never asked for mine. I am sure that the future is what you make it. Obviously your path can be impacted by others, but you are still steering your own ship. That's true for people in the US, Canada, Zimbabwe...
There is a constant line of young people from all over the world waiting to come TO the US. Immigration might provide some clues about what its like in other places.Gregg, I disagree with you - if you can be arrested for some of the trivial reasons highlighted in this article, to me this is taking away the ability of steering your own ship. It seems that if you can be arrested for such trivial reasons - to me it seems this way anyway - you are under constant risk of your life being altered via criminal background checks. So I don't see the steering your own ship applying here. I will however say that I don't know that our youth are being subjected to this in all 50 states.
About giving your life to the United States - maybe this was not a good choice of words. I meant by this - why bother staying here and trying to work within the system established here if you are young and subjected to such insane risk? I know if I were one of these kids the lesson I would take from this is to get out of the United States as quickly as I could.....But as I have said before, I do tend to have a unique take on many issues.
About the many wanting to come here, I wonder if they would feel the same way about the US say they arrived, married and stayed here, had their own children, and found their children subjected to this? If they were good parents, into the welfare of their children, how do you think they would see the US then? Rob
By "steering your own ship" I did not mean to imply anyone has the freedom to simply go out and do anything they please. Every society has rules and most of them have a few ridiculous rules. As often as not those are made by a small group, or an individual, that are in authority positions and wish to remain there. If the parents down in Texas are up in arms about this it is very simple to mount a media campaign to change the rules, get the police to back down, kick the school board out, etc. That would be steering their own ship. Problem with that is most people are just passengers, not ship captians.
gimmethesimplelife
1-18-13, 2:08pm
By "steering your own ship" I did not mean to imply anyone has the freedom to simply go out and do anything they please. Every society has rules and most of them have a few ridiculous rules. As often as not those are made by a small group, or an individual, that are in authority positions and wish to remain there. If the parents down in Texas are up in arms about this it is very simple to mount a media campaign to change the rules, get the police to back down, kick the school board out, etc. That would be steering their own ship. Problem with that is most people are just passengers, not ship captians.Gregg, I can see that the parents do have the right to get together and try to have this overthrown or overturned or some such - certainly they can use tools like youtube and the Internet to get their case out there. What I am getting at is the kids - how are they going to see life, their country, the system, authority, gee a whole host of issues - after being exposed to such insanity in their formative years? Those children deserve better than the constant risk of being arrested - to me this does indeed resemble a police state, here, in Texas, and wherever else children of this age are being exposed to this. I for one think even less of America now. But I do wonder - why are the parents not stirring up a ruckus? I wonder if any agitation towards this is being suppressed in any way? Rob
ApatheticNoMore
1-18-13, 3:04pm
What I am getting at is the kids - how are they going to see life, their country, the system, authority, gee a whole host of issues - after being exposed to such insanity in their formative years?
They lack the context to see the big picture, they often don't know anything else, they're young. Part of that article said the kids could miss out on college financial aid because of it, but I'm not sure how that would happen because I thought that was just felonies ...??? If Texas actually manages to have less kids able to get college financial aid because of this, then wow they're really shooting themselves in the foot right? But a kid doesn't realize that they have been totally screwed over by their state say, until they understand how things are elsewhere (even in other states) etc.. They're not antropology or sociology professors who do nothing but such comparisons, they're young people entering a world they little understand. I agree the net result on people's outlook of growing up this way is negative. If it is effective in it's indoctrination it raises a generation of ever so obedient "good germans" (heaven help us all), if it's not so effective it still raises a generation with bad records that harm them later in life, thus juvenile deliquents.
I for one think even less of America now.
There is no "America", there is an incredibly diverse country, with a wide range of opinions and approaches to anything. What there are are federal laws and policies that apply nation-wide (yea those are real and a legitimate thing for anyone to be concerned with), plus state laws and polices that apply state wide and so on.
But I do wonder - why are the parents not stirring up a ruckus? I wonder if any agitation towards this is being suppressed in any way?
definitely possible ...
This was interesting - ignoring the stupidity of the whole thing officers that are busy dealing with matters like this are not doing what they are actually there for:
Cops Nab Five-Year-Old for Wearing Wrong Color Shoes to School
http://news.yahoo.com/wtf-cops-nab-five-old-wearing-wrong-color-203600800.html
Gregg, I can see that the parents do have the right to get together and try to have this overthrown or overturned or some such - certainly they can use tools like youtube and the Internet to get their case out there. What I am getting at is the kids - how are they going to see life, their country, the system, authority, gee a whole host of issues - after being exposed to such insanity in their formative years? Those children deserve better than the constant risk of being arrested - to me this does indeed resemble a police state, here, in Texas, and wherever else children of this age are being exposed to this. I for one think even less of America now. But I do wonder - why are the parents not stirring up a ruckus? I wonder if any agitation towards this is being suppressed in any way? Rob
Rob, I do agree that the whole situation at the Texas school(s) sounds ridiculous and needs to be further investigated. I haven't had time to really get into that, but I have noticed you've been deeply concerned with law enforcement and the possibility that they could overstep their authority. The term "police state" came up several times in the Santa thread and again here. At this point we are still a long way from a true police state in the US so I'm curious where that is coming from. I'm also finding it somewhat ironic that you are advocating for stricter gun control, with more oversight and involvement from law enforcement, while at the same time pointing out examples that seem to show over zealous enforcement of other laws. Are there other issues in play here?
gimmethesimplelife
2-21-13, 11:38pm
I think a big part of my take on this is that we are talking about children here in their formative years - I am also worried about those who coast through and don't get arrested - are they being thought to behave and never question authority? This chills me - one reason for this is that my mother is from Austria - a country that voluntarily voted the Nazi party in years ago and I don't need to get into great detail of what ensued there. Also I just don't much believe in a system that would actually arrest ten year olds for such trivial reasons.....I do agree with you that the US as it stands now is no police state, BUT I do sometimes see the beginnings of one emerging and this chills me. Rob
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