View Full Version : I'm I being "spoiled-y?"
As you know, we have been living very simply over the last couple of years to get the business off the ground. In essence, I don't want that to change.
I'm not looking for a bigger house, just a slightly nicer one. I'm not looking for a fancy car, just one that is newer and more to what I want (I want my prius back! It's a weird emotional attachment!).
This past year, we started to pay ourselves back, put into our retirements, pay down the student loan debt again. We are building our emergency fund currently, and also our business "reinvestment" savings (what we keep by to cover leaner months or improvements to the place). While we covered some medical needs for a friend, through our work together, she is now able to pay for that herself, which is awesome.
This year, things are growing again, and we plan to keep on keeping on with our savings and our simple living as-is.
But, our car is heading toward major repairs. The mechanic estimates that we could do 1-2 years before it would be necessary, but it wouldn't be worth it at the point because the repair is worth more than the car itself, so his recommendation is to look to sell it to a dealership before then to get a small trade-in value -- it wouldn't be much, though, but better than selling it for scrap ($150), and then having to go and get a car, and possibly having that time without a car business, and what not.
So, we are looking at saving for our prius (we are looking at the 2005 model, which is in a price range where we feel comfortable and has the look/feel of the 2007 which we left behind in the US).
A friend of mine -- who is super frugal in some weird ways (he's very strange, tbh) -- says that he would get a different car, not a prius or hybrid, and pay about 1/3 to 1/2 the price of the prius. It would be a more basic car, and a little older. But I want the prius! WAH! :)
And then, you know, we are talking about other living options. Right now, we are staying put, but DH and I are talking about moving back into the city. There are lots of ideas around this, but I do need a view (spoiled!), and I would like a modern/nice kitchen and bath. WIth that, and what I own, I'd be living in the way that I want to -- which is a nicely designed/simply decorated place. To get that, we'd pay about double in housing. It would also be a two bedroom place, but not much more sq footage than what we currently have.
It seems all spoiled-y to want a fancier place and a fancier car, even if we can afford them. In a way, I go "shouldn't it go to savings? to debt?" But on the other hand, I kind of feel like I do need to live well now, too. Not too extravagantly, not beyond my means. . . but. . . you know. Nicer.
Where do we balance this quality of life with frugality?
I don't know. I feel I'm in the same position, except can probably afford a bit more than you can, just because we don't have any of the small business expenses and debts that you have.
I technically don't NEED anything better. But sometimes I just WANT better. I'm almost 36 and just want to have furniture that wasn't free or cheap or damaged or ugly. It's hard to not compare ourselves to other people. I don't know anyone else my age that still rents. And most people have at least some proper furniture. People way younger than me own houses. (I have bought before but sold when I got married, and DH has never bought). I talked more about this in the renting thread. I want a washer/dryer. I'd like 1150 sq. ft plus basement instead of the 900 sq foot total we have now. DH and I work a lot and make quite good money. So I feel that I should be able to spend some of it on a condo, on vacations, on furniture. Is that too much to ask? But I do feel spoiled. I have so much more than the majority of people in this world.
But what if I died young and just spent all my time working and all that money just goes to my relatives and I barely used any for myself? I don't like that thought. It's certainly and ongoing frustration between DH and myself. We did buy a brand new car this spring, which was a huge thing for us. Unlike most couples it seems we're usually telling each other it's okay to spend money, since we're both probably too frugal for our own good and sometimes it's hard to just relax and buy things.
I'd love to hear what other people think who are in a similar position. And for anyone to tell me it's okay to spend money on a condo we can easily afford. That'd be appreciated.
Everybody has to find their own balance and there is no absolute right or wrong answer.
We live in a ridiculously expensive apartment. We bought at a very good price, and made a significant downpayment, but our mortgage payment is still $1880/month. The actual cost to us is less, because DH gets a housing allowance from his employer of about $650/month, and then the portion of the monthly payment going toward principal is over $900. So we are paying roughly $330/month (plus management fees and utilities, which work out to about another $300/month) to live in an amazing apartment -- views of all of eastern Beijing from the 30th floor, over 2000 sq ft of living space, awesome kitchen with DOUBLE OVENS (which I do actually use), and all kinds of other perks -- that would probably rent for $4000-5000/month. We could sell it, pocket our signifcant gains, and move to a cheaper place. Heck, we could probably sell it and be totally FI, quit our jobs and move to a tropical island (yes, I am trying to convince DH this is a good option ;)), but for now we have good jobs with good benefits and DH wants to keep working so we are staying put. We're not paying off the mortgage yet, though we are very close to being able to do so, for a variety of complicated reasons related to taxes, currency exchange regulations, and long-term planning. Our interest rate is only 4.25%, and I'm ok with carrying the mortgage.
Are people possibly going to find fault with me and say "how can you say you value simple living, etc when you spend such a ridiculous amount on your housing?" Yeah, probably. And there will be those who find fault with the fact that we have way more square footage than we probably need, or that we choose to fly back and forth across the Pacific twice a year to see my family (costly in both financial and environmental terms -- our carbon footprint is probably atrocious, but we do offset it by not having a car so please don't pelt me with recycled toilet paper...), or that we actually buy mostly made in China goods.
One of the things that I love about this site is that although people can be judgmental at times, the general question people come back with when we debate spending in different "splurgy" areas is "Is it in line with your values and sound financially?" As long as you are making your decisions based on your values and a solid long-term plan, rather than just on a whim, I think most people are going to endorse your well-thought-through choices.
I remember when you were making the decision to move to the beach community. It sounded fabulous, and probably is in many ways. But you have discovered it doesn't meet your needs in a lot of ways. Making a change that will meet those needs is going to cost more. So be it. Know what you want/need based on analysis of how you actually live your lives, make the best/most frugal choice you can given the options for that kind of living situation, and be at peace with it. Do you need a prius? Maybe not. If the hybrid piece is important to you, maybe there are other models that would meet your needs at a lower cost. But you've owned a prius before and they are great cars, so maybe just be at peace with the fact that that is what you really want right now.
Another way to deal with this is to set yourselves some concrete "stretch" goals and see how the universe responds. So you know you want to buy a car in a year. Plan a basic savings plan to buy a slightly lower cost car, not a Prius, but then plan to throw any extra toward the "I earned a prius" fund. So if you have an amazing business year and you earn and extra 5k over what you had projected, you can put that money toward the Prius that you really want. If the business doesn't do so well, maybe you settle for a lower end car, or if your current car is still runnign you keep it a few more months until you can afford that Prius.
If your life is out of balance you are goign to be unhappy, and savings/spending is a part of that balance. Sounds to me like you are doing great and making sound, well-reasoned choices. Keep it up, grow the business more, and you are going to continue to have an awesome life.
lhamo
One of our big goals -- which seems totally silly to admit -- is buying a vacation home. LOL
When we were on our holiday and rented a bach (vacation home), we really liked how lovely that time was. We found land near by, and there's an off-grid, pre-fab home that I've been eyeing for the last 4-5 years (made here in NZ). The cost would be about half what buying a house or condo here would be (move-in condition/newer), and about the same as what a "knock-down" (land value), and we'd still have to buy the house on top of that (so again, taking it back up to move-in condition house or newer condo). And, we could amortize it by renting it out during the right seasons. It wouldn't cover all of the costs, but at least it would function as a money-making venture.
We'll start saving for it after we have met our "pay ourselves back" goal. Once we have that, then we'll start using that money into the "possibly buy a house" fund. Who knows how long that will take (we usually "snowball" into savings, so. . . it varies).
It's silly, but renting in the city and having a vacation home for weekends and/or vacations and/or retreating in general would be really nice (and only a 2 hr drive from the city). Then, after that one is paid off (and making money), then saving up to possibly buy a condo in the city if we would like.
It's "pie in the sky" -- but I think with proper planning, it can be a good thing for us and also be part of our whole retirement planning (started talking to a financial planner and accountant about this sort of thing -- they also mentioned buying the city condo as a part of the business, since I will have guest teachers staying over and stuff, like I do now -- meaning getting a 3 or 4 BR place so that there's always a "guest room" and use it as a launch pad for traveling teachers). It's all really interesting stuff, and they were explaining to me how these investments could work long term (for both taxes and otherwise).
Anyway, they don't see any reason why it's not possible, and also the prius could be branded and put under the business as well -- so a different expense of the business -- which changes our tax situation there. . . anyway. Interesting ideas.
It's tax season, i spend so much time with my accountant learning. :)
You know what, I suppose it's ok to dream, you know? :) And that those dreams are ok. . . and that you can spend money on them -- including travel, houses, etc.
Sure, if you're completely under water and bitching about money -- then definitely not. But if you're sustainable, debt free (or nearly so), then. . . you know. . . what's the problem of spending some of your money? I dont' think it's a problem. And i don't think it should cause too much personal anxiety or upset.
It's good to live the way you dream. I'm not looking to ever buy beyond my means, but grow the means to live as I want. That's kind of the point of going into business for myself, anyway.
I'm not sure if it's necessarily as much of a want as you think. There is a point where I choose to purchase a higher quality product which of course comes with a higher price point.
There is only so much time and trips to the auto shop to repair a beater car that seems a frugal choice before I start to have diminishing returns. You are finally at a point where you have some financial breather room and sometimes the quality choice is the long term frugal choice vs. the 'good enough' choice.
Even those on the tightest of budgets have something on which they 'waste' their money. In the end it is your money and your choice :) That something extra that helps you breath, relax or feel better about your course in life.
ApatheticNoMore
1-24-13, 3:43am
Generally I think I really and truly am a profoundly anti-materialistic person. It just doesn't matter to me. I have some weaknesses such as prefering a few things like clothes bought new that look nice on me :). But most things meh. And I don't even think I (or anyone) am going to care if I do end up on my death bed before my time whether I had nice funiture or not (I might care about experiences, that vacation I didn't take ... but the furniture, why would I care?).
But trying to convince myself I was happy in one absolutely horrendous apartment was a step too far. The thing was falling apart, had termites, had roaches, leaked, was ridiculously drafty, was ancient, had a mushroom growing out of the floor (which I would remove of course), none of the doors closed because I guess the foundation had shifted too much. Sure sometimes I even liked the drafty because I felt in touch with the great outdoors, but othertimes I would get sick of it "it feels like I don't even have shelter". I tried to remind myself the place was built in the Great Depression and try to get a Great Depression mentality and remind myself that at least it wasn't the Great Depression (this was about the time I had vast feelings of dread about the current economy as well - it wasn't personal, it was just at the time the whole world economy was collapsing). Oh I tried to be grateful. Now I'm just infinitely thankful I moved out of that place after 2 years!!! That was more than enough of that place, never again will I live somewhere that bad, I hope!! That was a step too far (even in the life of the woman who doesn't care about material things)!!!
But what if I died young and just spent all my time working and all that money just goes to my relatives and I barely used any for myself? I don't like that thought.
This hits home. And I am going to start out by stating that I feel very, very blessed. I have a house (well, the bank and I have a house) that I really enjoy. I have a job I really enjoy. Zoebird, hate to rub it in, but I have my 2007 Prius (I fully understand the emotional attachment).
So, that being said I was thinking the same thing after I looked at how my 2012 expenses broke out and realized that 25% of all my income went to paying back debts for which I cosigned which are uncollectable now from the original borrowers. 25%!! So I worked January, February and March to make good on other people's mistakes. (My big mistake--being a cosigner). Arggh..
Meanwhile, my kitchen sorely needs work--and I'm not talking granite countertops--I'm talking replacement of an oven that doesn't even work anymore and a 1974 porcelain sink and counter that is badly chipped and burned.
I think it's all about balance. Sometimes you need just that one thing that makes you feel all that work is worthwhile.
I've been a Dave Ramsey devotee so I do believe in delaying gratification until debt is gone and an emergency fund is built, but after that, if you are confident about your next year's earnings, I think you can cautiously start enjoying the fruits of your labor. Perhaps prioritize with your DH and decide on one "reward" for your hard work each year.
SteveinMN
1-24-13, 10:53am
I manage the finances in the house. DW is always asking me "can we afford to do <x>?" My answer is always the same: we still can do pretty much anything we want, but we can't do everything we want. DW talks about taking another cruise this year (which I would love to do). We would like to replace a poorly-installed (not by us) kitchen floor -- and the flooring we like the best isn't cheap even if it will last longer than we want it to. We know that sometime along the way our 10-year-old appliances will need to be replaced and the 35-year-old windows won't last forever, either. Big $$.
All we can do is prioritize according to our preferences and values. The kitchen floor may get a bigger share of money than a cruise this year -- or we'll postpone the cruise altogether -- because we look at the floor every single day and work is not as stressful as it was a couple of years ago. If the goal was living as cheaply as possible, we'd be down to a dirt-floor hut in the middle of nowhere. Our lives are better than that. And it's OK to have a preference in where our money is spent.
2 dreams we are working towards- tiny home near beach, new car for me.
My truck is 8 years old and still in good shape---but we are going to need something else in about a year.
Looking at TINY houses in Corpus this weekend. We figured out the mortgage with all included, will only be only a few hundred a month. Talking tiny here people. It is an investment to us because it will eventually be our home base. Again, just formulating and planning.
We will first finish off the last of our debt, minus the mortgage and go from there. It's ok to dream and turn them into reality, if it's really what you want.
My "spoiled-y" dream is another 2 years in this house, sell it. Rent a smaller/cheaper place for a couple years (kids will be in college) and put everything we can into retirement/IRAs/etc then move to the farm to be near my parents as they age and buy a little place on the gulf coast for vacations.
rosarugosa
1-24-13, 8:42pm
I've never been into deprivation. We have what we consider nice furniture, with only a few second-hand things. We didn't buy the furniture to impress anyone else; we bought it because we enjoy our home, spend a lot of time here, and it's what we wanted. We aren't serial upgraders, so most if not all of this stuff will be with us for the long haul. Count me in with the folks to don't think it's "sinful" to spend money on nice things or homes for the right reasons and when you can afford to do so.
Might I add I am hankering for another Jeep. **SIGH** They make me happy.
I think the thing about simple living IS about making conscious choices. Would you feel a tiny bit like doing a happy dance or at least smiling every time you got into a drove the Prius? Then probably you should prioritize getting one, because it probably WILL be worth your life energy. And it's also probably draining your life energy every time you think "wow I wish I had a Prius". If you get some other car, will you be wishing you had a Prius? If so, spring for the dang Prius if you don't have to go into debt for it.
I want a 4Runner. With luck/diligence, we'll be looking before the end of the year. This will be a vast improvement over our current cars, which do well for commuting but on one of which we blew the transmission on a rock last year on a road that was supposedly OK for passenger cars, but kind of wasn't. Sometimes the expense is worth it, and I'd rather pay the added $ for upkeep on an SUV and not replace the transmission again.
MamaM -- are you talking tiny like our 485sq ft place? it's comfy for minimalist 3. :D Or are you talking tiny like 250 sq ft? ;) I love tiny. I think that 800-900 sq ft would be *really* swank. If we do the off grid on land thing, it would be 850 sq ft. That's swank. :D
Our goal was to get to the point of being able to have health/life insurance this year, as well as renters/car insurance. This was the "by the end of 2013" goal. But, when I sat down with the accountant, she suggested that we start this in April, because we can afford it. So, that's a sweet deal (renters and car insurance is only $250/annum; the health/life is the more expensive stuff, but we can afford it, apparently!).
This means that we are -- as ever -- ahead of our goals.
And yes, I feel about the prius as described. I feel the wanting of it (but not too terribly), and I loved driving it and I miss it and I drove my friend's prius then cried when I got home. I never thought I could be SO EMOTIONAL about a car. LOL
So, we're going to pay off the immigration paperwork credit card bill as our first priority. Then take the money thrown at that once it's off to start the foundation for the prius. I think we could afford the prius (cash outright) by the end of the year.
Honestly, where we live IS nice. The commute is a bit much, BUT it's do-able. No need for me to be too fussy about it. :) DH is going to do the kindy runs, and I'm working to get out of teaching at 2 -- doing all of the office work while DS is in kindy. Then, having evenings at home with family. It's a good plan -- and should be finished by the end of this year (teachers trained and ready to teach by then).
So, we talked about staying put for the time being. . . possibly the next 2-3 years. During this time, we will put into savings, and do little things as we need to (ie, we could use some wall shelves in the kitchen -- which is only $200).
He feels that once we have paid ourselves back AND the student loan debt is paid off (which at this rate looks like 5 years, but it could be less if we get aggressive about it again like we did after DS was born but before we moved here), then he's right -- we can do whatever we want, then.
Even have another baby if we felt like it.
jennipurrr
1-25-13, 12:28pm
I have been wrestling with this a lot recently and have a blog post in progess about it but haven't gotten around to finishing. We live in a perfectly acceptable house. We almost have the mortgage paid off. It is completely functional for our needs.
But, I am just tired of it! My neighborhood is nice (about 20 homes) but outside the circle we are surrounded by either nothingness (natural disaster wiped the houses out) and/or poverty. It is just depressing to me. I've never liked the asthetics of my house. It was always acceptable and nothing more. I want a home with "charm" - high ceilings and a big porch. DH really wants a nicer kitchen with a dishwasher and more outdoor living space.
So, here we are debating on moving and buying another house. I don't really have much of a "good" to. We would be able to walk to work which is nice for health and pocketbook, but the house would be double (at least) the price of this one.
I think if you have the means and the car/house purchase is really in line with your values, go for it.
I think that you have really thought everything through in a practical manner and it should not matter. The reason I say this is, so many people just go out and get what they think they want at that particular moment and it fills the hole for the moment...until they find something else they must absolutely have! DH and I are not materialistic people....we like to have things with quality that we will enjoy for years to come. I love my Subaru and will get the newer model when it is time to replace him. DH will get a truck when it is time for him to get one. We do have granite counter tops in the kitchen...our whole house was gutted out and replaced! The only thing that needs to be changed in the roof and we have money for that set aside.
Our only "rule" is that all the bills have to be paid, our investments maxed, and money in savings....after that we can do what we want with what is left....so far it is working well :)
Gardenarian
1-28-13, 5:42pm
I think having a home that you love and feel comforatble in is really important, whether it's a trailer you're renting or a full house. I like old things so it has been easy for me to do this inexpensively; if your tastes are more pricey than you just have to prioritize as you do with everything else. Same with cars.
Zoebird - I don't think having a vacation home is silly! The cabin I bought last year has about tripled in value, and I'm occasionally renting it out - and spending a lot of great time in the silence and beauty of nature. Works for me! (Though I may sell it when the market is high and build my own on a little piece of land I've been eyeing - I've always wanted to build my own house.)
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