Major Employee Issue - Help!

[jennipurrr]

Mods - please delete thread if possible. I don't think I can do that.

[MamaM]

Keep it quiet. As a Director and Manager for many years, do not be the Leadership that starts gossip and drama. Your associates will lose respect for you, quickly, as will your bosses. If others find out, pull a meeting together fast and nip it in the bud. Bring it up to the employee first and make sure they are ok and tell them how you are going to address the others, if they even want that done. She may have turned over a new leaf and this is her chance to get back to normal. Thanks.

[MamaM]

I will also say, if it comes up, involve HR. They are supposed to be neutral and can give you guidance. Thank you.

[creaker]

If it's something you found out privately, I think it can stay private. One thing to think about - if the situation does go public, you may want to consider what your answer will be if it's asked "did you know anything about this?"

[Life_is_Simple]

*deleted* as we wait for the moderator to delete the whole thread

[SteveinMN]

I say to MYOB (mind your own business). You have ranged into an area of someone's life that, as a supervisor, you really didn't have business walking into. You happened to fall into it, but, as you said, there you are.

If this employee is indeed your best employee and is handling her workload and her work life as well as you (as supervisor) expect, then leave her alone and keep quiet. If the town is as small as you say, someone else may learn about it on their own or from your friend/neighbor. So be it. You cannot control that. But no one has to learn about this woman's "second job" from you. And there's no reason that your curiosity and "proactivity" on this should cost this woman her job and you your best employee.

And, frankly, if the story comes out and if management decides to do something with their "morality clause" and if they ask you what you knew about it ... well, if it were me, I would just say that, as her supervisor, what your employee does in her off hours was not something that concerned you. The employee was doing her job and handling the workplace well and it didn't matter to you if she went home and trained poodles for the circus.

[JaneV2.0]

What SteveinMN said.

[Square Peg]

What Steve said. However, I can imagine how shocking it was to find out. Do you feel like the discovery has changed the way you interact with her?

[San Onofre Guy]

Many people do hobbies in their off work time. Leave it be and don't be judgemental.

[Simplemind]

In my old place of employment looking it up on the computer while on duty would have been the big no-no. What you do on your off duty time is your own affair as long as it didn't reflect back badly to the organization. I figure what you put on the internet is as good as putting it on the side of a bus. It is there to see if you look. I don't know how your organization defines morals in the clause.
I too would be thinking about what to say if I was asked. If she is a great employee and there is no misbehavior on her part while on duty with her computer or violating the morals clause that would be my answer as well as it isn't your business or theirs.......... until it is done while doing your business.

[decemberlov]

I say to MYOB (mind your own business). You have ranged into an area of someone's life that, as a supervisor, you really didn't have business walking into. You happened to fall into it, but, as you said, there you are.

If this employee is indeed your best employee and is handling her workload and her work life as well as you (as supervisor) expect, then leave her alone and keep quiet. If the town is as small as you say, someone else may learn about it on their own or from your friend/neighbor. So be it. You cannot control that. But no one has to learn about this woman's "second job" from you. And there's no reason that your curiosity and "proactivity" on this should cost this woman her job and you your best employee.

And, frankly, if the story comes out and if management decides to do something with their "morality clause" and if they ask you what you knew about it ... well, if it were me, I would just say that, as her supervisor, what your employee does in her off hours was not something that concerned you. The employee was doing her job and handling the workplace well and it didn't matter to you if she went home and trained poodles for the circus.

Absolutely this!!! :+1:

[Yossarian]

I would just say that, as her supervisor, what your employee does in her off hours was not something that concerned you.

I'm inclined to back this. Maybe some research is in order- does your employee have a "stage" name? ;)

[bae]

How is it immoral to be sex-positive?

[sweetana3]

You engaged in gossip in so many ways. It was none of your business what went on in her divorce. It was none of your business what was on the computer. Nothing had anything to do with her job or your job managing her. You were only involved in your own voyeurism. Sorry to be so blunt but that is what I feel.

It does not involve children, active and participatory violence against others, money transactions in the workplace, etc.

Forget it. What if she is trying to get her life back in order? Are people like you going to prevent it?

[redfox]

How is it immoral to be sex-positive?

Agreed. And, more importantly, you crossed a boundary asking someone else about this outside of work. That was inappropriate as a manager. What she does after hours is not your business, unless there is a legal reason, like she works with vulnerable children as a social worker & deals crack on the side. If I were the employee and had any ramifications from a manager snooping into my private life, I'd be at the office of an employment law attorney stat.

Drop it.

[jennipurrr]

.

[redfox]

jennipur, I get your concern for your employee. Please, next time go directly to her if her ex shows up, etc. You're responsible for everyone's well-being, and she is included in that group. If something from an employees personal life impacts work, the first person to go to is that employee, privately & non-punitively, unless it is an issue involving law enforcement. Let her know you are there as a support to her on the job, and want to make sure she's aware of the situation, and how you will handle it. In the case of the ex, she would be able to tell you if she thought he was a threat & give you important information about him. If your assessment is that he is, you need to take action even if she does not agree, but letting her know that you do not hold her responsible for his actions, and how you will proceed, is very important.

This is a huge boundary issue, and no one is born knowing it; we all learn it by the very experience you're now having. THAT is something a good HR person can help with, and without going into specifics, you can ask for some coaching about how to have solid professional/managerial boundaries with staff IF personal lives come into the workplace. Which they will! We don't segregate our lives.

Here is my huge professional boundary learning: years ago, when I was a social worker for the state in a small office, one day I answered the phone and a good friend, in my immediate circle in a small community, was calling the CPS worker. I passed the phone call to him, one cubicle away, and heard her disclose to him that her husband, also a good friend, was sexually abusing their daughter. I went into shock. Then, rather than immediately calling my direct supervisor, I went home and told my best friend, and swore her to secrecy. Umm hmmm... you can see it coming, yes? A month later, at a party my then best friend -- and someone I have never since trusted with confidential material -- when in a convo with this woman, said, "Oh, (my name) is really worried about you." I got a call the next day by the woman whose confidentiality I had violated, and she was beyond furious, and rightly so. My God. I thought I'd have to leave my position.

I then immediately called my supervisor, and he was fantastic. I was in tears, shredded, freaked out, felt horribly horribly awful, guilty, ashamed. You name it. He completely understood; I think it's something every social worker goes through at some point in their career. We hear really hard stuff... He helped me through this, gave me some "sanctions" (basically, I was to call him weekly to debrief, and he essentially counseled me) and coached me about how to apologize to my friend. I sent her a formal letter on letterhead apologizing, acknowledging my grievous violation of her family's privacy and professionalism, outlined what steps I was taking with my supervisor, and offered her the opportunity to engage in more formal actions. She was incredibly gracious about it all. I then railed at my friend, and as I said, have never trusted her with any sensitive information since. A very hard lesson... I haven't thought of this in years, and truthfully, am in tears remembering it. It was probably one of the lowest moments of my life.

[MamaM]

Redfox- yes, we all have had the learning moment.

I have learned to be friendly but not close with my associates. It just can't happen, as nice as they may be, with kids close to my son's age, inviting me to participate in non work related events, etc, etc, etc. Most understand, some do not and I do not take it personally. I, too, learned my lesson by getting to close to someone who worked for me. She was an ace worker and one day, I just was having one of those days. I vented to her- literally offloaded on her. I realized I shouldn't have and asked her to "keep it in Vegas." She smiled and say she would. Well, a month later, my words were repeated back to me during a review. It appears my boss was baiting my employees to get the scoop on me. Professional- no, either in my case or my bosses nor my associates, but I have since learned to keep it professional at all times. We all learn. Take it as a lesson. :)

[redfox]

Oy vey, MamaM! A supervisor baiting like that... Despicable. THE very reason I won't FB friend staff OR board members, until we part professional ways.

[razz]

What Steve said. Bluntly stated, butt out and don't get caught in it. If it is illegal it will be found out, if not, what is the problem?

BTW, from my perspective, by posting it on the internet, it is out there forever so deleting the thread now will accomplish nothing.

There have been different threads when I cringe to see the info being offered but to each their own decision.

[iris lily]

For grins I'll work the other side.

The OP is paid to represent her institution and to carry out personnel policies. The "morals" dictum is there, and whether a holdover from years gone by (likely) there it is. So the OP is responsible for paying attention to this, chastise her all you like, but she's doing her job. And yeh, while it's fun to be all libertarian in personal beliefs and to STFU when consenting adults are involved, it is also the easiest position here.

Here's what would give me pause in this situation:

1) The employee apparently is all over the web under her real name. Really? That is, umm, bad judgement to put it kindly. I'd worry that there is other emotional stuff going on with her. Her real name schtick doesn't even make logical sense and that bad judgement might manifest in the workplace.

2)If my work unit had extensive contact with the public, especially with children, especially with groups of people known to be religious or politically conservative, and my employees represented my institution in contacts with these groups, I would consider action.

I like MamaM's caution about being the trouble making manager, but I also know the OP is no drama queen. So my instinct is to perhaps talk with someone in HR (NOT my boss) and be specific about the web action, but non-specific about which employee. If a widely distributed crotch shot--under a real name--doesn't come under a morals clause then I'm not sure what does. As MamaM suggested a good HR pro will give guidance. If there is no one good in HR, forget about it. I like our head of HR and might bring this problem to him IF knew the employee involved was working in a publicly sensitive position.

And for this being sex positive behavior, there is plenty of feminist literature addressing the exploitative nature of showing one's snatch to the world. It all depends on the ee's mindset.

Managers are supposed to assess risk to head off headlines such as:

Library's Story Time Lady is Porn Star

Christian Charity Staff is Secretary by Day, Sex Queen by Night

Children's Home Fundraiser Raises Eyebrows with Her Off-Duty Photos

My bottom line on this is: you are probably ok to not say a word because this employee probably doesn't work in a sensitive position. And actually, I find potential employee gossip to be the least worrisome. You don't talk about it with her fellow workers/your staff/your colleagues, and if one of them brings it up you are suddenly too busy to pay attention and you deflect attention from it. Same thing as with all employee personal chit.

[bae]

And for this being sex positive behavior, there is plenty of feminist literature addressing the exploitative nature of showing one's snatch to the world.

And there's plenty taking exactly the opposite position, of course...

Can't really know what was going on without knowing the mind of the individual that was making the material. I suspect none of us have that degree of psychic power.

[fidgiegirl]

Our organization has an Employee Assistance Plan through health insurance. We can speak with a lawyer through this service for something like 30 minutes for no charge. Perhaps if you have that service you can access an attorney to run this by and that person can shed some light.

I'm with razz about deleting the thread . . . digital footprint, baby. The internet is archived . . . just look at the Wayback Machine.

And my sympathies for even having to deal with it!

ETA: The EAP - at least ours - is anonymous beyond tracking how many employees access it. That's the only report our employer gets - not who, not when, and not what for.

[iris lily]

Our organization has an Employee Assistance Plan through health insurance. We can speak with a lawyer through this service for something like 30 minutes for no charge. Perhaps if you have that service you can access an attorney to run this by and that person can shed some light.

I'm with razz about deleting the thread . . . digital footprint, baby. The internet is archived . . . just look at the Wayback Machine.

And my sympathies for even having to deal with it!

No. There is no need for OP to take this to an attorney.

[redfox]

And there's plenty taking exactly the opposite position, of course...

Can't really know what was going on without knowing the mind of the individual that was making the material. I suspect none of us have that degree of psychic power.

Truly! And if one does have psychic powers, it is understood that one is underpaid.

[SteveinMN]

Managers are supposed to assess risk to head off headlines such as:

Library's Story Time Lady is Porn Star

Christian Charity Staff is Secretary by Day, Sex Queen by Night

Children's Home Fundraiser Raises Eyebrows with Her Off-Duty Photos

I saw the "for grins" part at the beginning, so I don't think we're on completely separate pages on this, IL, but I disagree that managers are supposed to assess the risk of such sensational headlines for stuff they don't know their employees are doing in their off-hours. The problem here is that the supervisor went after the story by asking the wrong person for information. If the employee were receiving threats from XH or if her workplace performance were suffering notably from the divorce or if she were applying for porn jobs on company computers, then there is a "people problem" and the person the supervisor needs to talk with would be the employee and whoever else (Security, IT, whoever) would have to be involved. Otherwise...

[AmeliaJane]

For everyone, including the OP, this is a good reminder not even to ask the questions because you honestly don't know what the answers might be. It sounds like the original inquiry, while boundary-crossing, was not that distant from the kind of conversations people often have about acquaintances and co-workers.

One upside is that when this comes out, as is not unlikely (given the small town, and that the ex-husband's friend has already told one person about this...and who knows who the ex himself might have told), the OP will be able to respond from a place of calm logic and not emotional reaction since that part of the processing is done.

[saguaro]

I saw the "for grins" part at the beginning, so I don't think we're on completely separate pages on this, IL, but I disagree that managers are supposed to assess the risk of such sensational headlines for stuff they don't know their employees are doing in their off-hours. The problem here is that the supervisor went after the story by asking the wrong person for information. If the employee were receiving threats from XH or if her workplace performance were suffering notably from the divorce or if she were applying for porn jobs on company computers, then there is a "people problem" and the person the supervisor needs to talk with would be the employee and whoever else (Security, IT, whoever) would have to be involved. Otherwise...

RE: the bolded and agree with this. Leave it be but be prepared that it could come out sometime. Given she is using her real name and some people in town already know, I would think it's a matter of time, but deal with that when it comes. At least you won't be blindsided. If any issue re: the divorce, the x-hubby or activities associated with her other "occupation" starts affecting her performance in the workplace then address that particular issue only via the appropriate channels.

[jennipurrr]

Thanks for all the replies. As I stated when I posted, I am going to delete my original post now. If the mods want to delete the thread I would welcome that.