View Full Version : "Food SHOULD be expensive": Discuss
I was throwing some pine nuts into my spinach last night and I felt guilty: pine nuts run me $7.99 for a small amount at my supermarket. But I LOVE them!! Whenever I splurge on food like that I remind myself that I don't drink soda or anything other than water, coffee and tea, so that savings goes right to more expensive splurge food, like pine nuts.
But then I remembered my permaculture teacher's quote: Food should be expensive.
Just for some context here's some statistics about food expenditure as a proportion to our income:
The 5.5% of disposable income that Americans spend on food at home is less than half the amount of income spent by Germans (11.4%), the French (13.6%), the Italians (14.4%), and less than one-third the amount of income spent by consumers in South Africa (20.1%), Mexico (24.1%), and Turkey (24.5%), which is about what Americans spent DURING THE GREAT DEPRESSION, and far below what consumers spend in Kenya (45.9%) and Pakistan (45.6%).
The lower food costs and expenditures as a proportion to income reflects the lower quality overall. It also reflects the mindless exploitation of the earth in order to produce a lot of food at low cost. And it reflects that we are choosing to spend our money instead on equally mindless choices.
Anyone care to discuss their thoughts on this? And share what quality food splurges you indulge in?
I agree, food should be expensive. Anyone who gardens realizes how much work goes into growing even the simplest vegetables, such as lettuce or spinach. And animal foods should cost far more than they do; the resources that go into producing these are not reflected in the low prices.
My splurges: organic apples, pears, strawberries (all in season only); beautiful organic kale or collards from the natural foods store when I go there in winter; occasionally, garnet sweet potatoes - my favorite, such a lovely color and sweet flavor; walnuts (the price of which has doubled in the last 2 years); organic dried apricots and figs (nature's candy!).
Yesterday my splurge was an Asian pear.
During a rare shopping trip together at our food coop, DW spotted a local/pastured/no antibiotics/etc. package of her favorite cheese. The price per pound was about double the price she is used to paying at the supermarket for big regional brands. She asked me if she should get it because it was so expensive. My reply was that it wasn't that expensive -- that it was what food should cost. (We bought the cheese. For what it's worth, it's a real cheese, not "pasturized process".)
I know that the dairy that made the cheese available at the coop treats their animals humanely. The cows get out to graze (at least in the months they can here). They eat things cows should eat, not animal byproducts, prophylactic antibiotics, or other "supplements". The people working at those farms are citizens earning a iiving wage or at least have a financial stake in the dairy's success (the dairy itself being a cooperative). The workers at our coop are paid a living wage and get tuition reimbursement and medical insurance and have access to deferred-comp plans and other benefits. Granted, as a smaller store the coop probably exhibits a little of the "boutique" effect common to specialty grocers. But when you get done being fair to all of the producers in the chain (including the animals, the whole vegetarian issue aside), this is what food costs if we don't want to cut corners and save money at the expense of any part in the supply chain.
Quality food splurges? Meat, I guess. Despite the cost, I find the chicken and pork at the coop have a better texture and more flavor than the factory stuff at the supermarket. And ground beef. I will not eat ground beef unless I know exactly where it came from. I even want to know the cow's name, if possible. :~) The nice thing about good meat is that you can use less of it and still eat to be satisfied. And I will spend more on apples at the coop because they have (again, local organic) varieties I don't see anywhere else outside the farmer's market.
Food should be expensive, I certainly agree. That's why I love summer so much, when I can grow much of my own, knowing it's fresh, organic, and local. Now, in winter, I have a harder time choosing food, especially in the produce section. We eat almost 100% organic produce nowadays.
I try to eat local cheese but we don't seem to have as many options that you have, Steve. We don't have a co-op any more, and so we hunt around to try to find local grocers that sell local stuff. It invariably costs over $10.00/lb, sometime well over that. Is that normal?
We eat almost no meat, so when we do, it's spectacular stuff. I roasted a locally-raised, never-frozen chicken the other day and was just astonished at the difference in flavor. I would much rather eat less of something amazing then a ton of cheap inferior junk. I lose weight, support our local economy, stay healthier, and feel good about life overall.
We are willing to cut corners in other areas (no iPhones, no fancy cable package, etc.) so that we can afford to eat this way.
My most common splurges are organic nuts, coconut milk, bananas, blueberries, dried fruit, and spices. I'm hankering today for a massive salad with toasted walnuts, goat cheese, dried cranberries, and a nice lemony vinaigrette.
It should be expensive. Quality is expensive. That said, there are plenty of cheaply made products out there trying to get those higher prices by masquerading as quality product. So expense isn't the only factor.
When I see how wasteful society is, yes, food should be expensive.
- Every year in the UK, 18 million tonnes of food ends up in landfill.
- Estimated value of wasted food in Canada, $27.7 billion a year.
- Americans squander the equivalent of $165 billion each year by rubbishing food.
Can you imagine if food wasn't expensive, what would happen?
Quality food purchases we indulge in... quality olive oil, honey, straight from one of our local apiaries, fresh fruit (no matter what the season), and meat.
The lower food costs and expenditures as a proportion to income reflects the lower quality overall. It also reflects the mindless exploitation of the earth in order to produce a lot of food at low cost.
A few thoughts...
1. We don't have a lower quality of food available that any other country. That is not the reason our food is cheap. Of course we do have low quality food available, from either a nutrition or flavor standpoint, but we also have some of the highest quality food on Earth constantly available to us. Obviously the low end is cheaper, but unlike most of the world we have a choice.
2. Industrial agriculture and its production methods are certainly one of the reasons our overall food selections are cheaper. My home state of Nebraska annually produces more corn that was produced globally 200 years ago. There are so many profound implications of what that actually means that it would take a dozen threads to go into it (the development of the fossil fuel industry, the global economy, multiple levels of resource depletion, the human population boom, climate change...), but the ability to produce that much food efficiently is certainly a reason our food is cheap.
3. Our government heavily subsidizes industrial ag. That makes it cheaper for big ag to produce food which holds the cost at the grocery store down. A lot of the other countries listed in the OP do not do that. If you calculate the costs of the various subsidies back into food the number will put us a lot closer to those other countries. Its just a little political slight of hand. We pay a good portion of our food bill up front with taxes taken out of our checks. The powers that be know consumers have an out of sight, out of mind mentality. They also know that we are happy to pay $2.50 for a gallon of milk, but would be upset if we had to pay $6.00. That's why they have us pay the other $3.50 up front.
ApatheticNoMore
2-7-13, 1:29pm
Food should be expensive but you need a good safety net for it (generous food stamp allowance I guess, maybe covering a slightly higher income? guess that's enough unless you anticipate it leading to other inflation and maybe not if it truly used less oil). Because of course not everyone has the money. Whether a middle class person like me has the money, yes of course and plenty of leeway even to take a paycut (which I'd only do if the opportunity was right of course). And I do spend it on food. It's difficult to say what I get out of it. I don't think for sure I will get a long life out of it or avoid old age decline, I've just seen too much. I think I do probably feel better mentally and physically in the here and the now, and eat less than I would of junk. I know it's good for the planet and people.
Splurges? I just am one big food splurge. Pastured poultry and meat, good olive oil, decided to commit to buying mostly organic fair trade chocolate (nope, whether I should eat chocolate or not is not up for debate at this point, though yea I could give up the vice and save money! :laff:) pricey produce like heirloom tomatoes, organic rasberries and cherries in the warmer months, cheese experimentation.
Good thinking, Gregg. I completely agree.
I think one of the best, most easy-to-read exposes of the food industry is Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma. It certainly helps to connect the dots between the consumers, the producers, and the government. Very eye-opening--and you're right, the food subsidies--esp corn, certainly drive how we eat and what we eat.
Loved Gregg's post. So true.
How does the anti-tax crowd view big ag subsidies, I wonder? On things like that, and subsidizing oil companies so I can pay less at the pump, I'm of a mind that I'd prefer to personally control what I spend as opposed to pouring it all into the bureaucracy, so it can trickle down to me as cost 'savings'. But I understand that's political dynamite.
Olive oil. I'd forgotten that. And my annual purchase of a coveted bottle of balsamic vinegar.....
ANM, yes, I did almost hold back from posting this idea, because we certainly don't want to make food LESS accessible to people who are in need of it! I think my POV really is about personal choice to the extent that we ARE free to choose.
I'm sure that we could, if we wanted to, also come up with creative ways to provide our communities with more, and better, choices. We have a soup kitchen in the area that also runs a culinary school that provides scholarships for low-income people, as well as a cafe and community garden.
We have a soup kitchen in the area that also runs a culinary school that provides scholarships for low-income people, as well as a cafe and community garden.
Catherine, is there anything on the web about that program? Some friends and I have been talking through ideas that sound very similar to that so I would love to find out more about a program that is up and running.
I'm of a mind that I'd prefer to personally control what I spend as opposed to pouring it all into the bureaucracy, so it can trickle down to me as cost 'savings'. But I understand that's political dynamite.
I think most of us here have the mindset that we would like to make our own choices rather than pay for HFCS that we will never eat. But yea, the political angle pretty much insures that any change will happen extremely slowly at best.
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e1abab3c2b/god-made-a-factory-farmer
Originally posted by Catherine.
We have a soup kitchen in the area that also runs a culinary school that provides scholarships for low-income people, as well as a cafe and community garden.That is over-the-top spectacular! Every town, every community, every place, should have just such a thing.
Great, great idea Catherine.
We have this little gem in town, which we all love -- I wonder if they would ever consider having a culinary school of some sort as well:
http://www.soallmayeat.org/
It is not unusual, I've heard from its founder, to find hundred dollar bills in the payment box most days. That made me get a little mushy. Their soups are also amazing.
IshbelRobertson
2-7-13, 3:00pm
i've bought only organic meats and eggs for nigh on thirty years. When I started, the cost differences were pain-inducing. I CHOSE to do it. The costs are closer nowadays, but still much steeper.
Veg and fruits? Well, i' less picky about them, but still buy a lot of organic foodstuffs from local growers. We also grow some of our own fruit and veg, in season.
I am passionate about additives... Hate them!
That is awesome pug! I've been to One World Cafe, but not to Same. Time for a roadtrip I think!
Great, great idea Catherine.
We have this little gem in town, which we all love -- I wonder if they would ever consider having a culinary school of some sort as well:
http://www.soallmayeat.org/
It is not unusual, I've heard from its founder, to find hundred dollar bills in the payment box most days. That made me get a little mushy. Their soups are also amazing.
That's so cool, puglogic!
Gregg, here's the one I was talking about: Elijah's Promise (http://www.elijahspromise.org/)
How does the anti-tax crowd view big ag subsidies, I wonder? On things like that, and subsidizing oil companies so I can pay less at the pump, I'm of a mind that I'd prefer to personally control what I spend as opposed to pouring it all into the bureaucracy, so it can trickle down to me as cost 'savings'. But I understand that's political dynamite.
Welfare for corporations seems to get an entirely different reception than welfare for individuals. The irony is that so many in the anti-tax crowd is for corporate welfare but against taxes -- but seemingly does not acknowledge that the two are related. :(
I found this cool looking graphic:http://wsm.wsu.edu/researcher/WSMaug11_billions.pdf
Okay, I don't really know how to post a link, but anyway it showed the percent of income spent on food by country. Graphically.....I was thinking Canada would have a big bubble because food IS expensive here compared to the US but not compared to a lot of other places in the world.
I found this cool looking graphic:http://wsm.wsu.edu/researcher/WSMaug11_billions.pdf
VERY cool graphic, leslieann! Thanks for posting~
Thanks for the link catherine. Sounds like a great place!
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