View Full Version : Letting Go of "Scorekeeping" in Marriage
My SO and I are not technically married, though we have a daughter together and hope to make it until "death do us part," but this is a real issue for us - "I did this, so you should do that." "I spent two hours with the baby, so you should spend two hours now" and it leads to a lot of arguments. I know long-married folks say this is absoultely toxic to a relationship, but we are having trouble working our way out of it.
How do you happily married folks manage this tendency? How do you endeavor to keep the division of labor *relatively* equal (I know letting go of total equality is part of it) without scorekeeping?
I went to John Gottman's website but couldn't find anything he's said on the topic.
Thanks in advance for your help,
Elizabeth
For one thing, the score keeping is exhausting. Why spend you life doing that tally?
I think one key thing is to accept that marriage is not 50-50. Someone will always "give" more than the other. Only the great Scorekeeper in the sky will know the true tally.
So let's pick one thing: staying with baby. Isn't one of you more interested in staying with the baby than the other one is? If that's merely a chore for both of you, I feel sorry for that baby, but I doubt that's the case, I just don't understand the mindset that each of you have to do equal amounts of Whatever. If one of you is more of a caretaker of baby than the other, there is nothing wrong with that.
I am the chief animal care giver in this house, but that's only fair because I'm the one who decides when we'll get more pets and who they will be. DH is very cooperative and supportive, but I'm the decision maker with pets. I do 85% of the work with them and I consider that fair.
I've heard a boat analogy used a couple of times, and it's a good one. The first was from Dr. Joyce Brothers (I think it was her--it was some famous psychologist) who said that when you're married you have to realize you are both in the same boat, and unless you have a "we" attitude, the marriage won't work.
The second time was from a boss I had (who was a jerk, but he kind of had a good point here), who gave all of us a book--something about a canoe. He drilled home that canoe analogy ad nauseum. Basically it was, you get in the boat with the others on the team and you row. If you don't want to be on the boat, the others will bring you to shore and you can get out. If you want to stay in the boat, you hang there and row with the others without complaining until you get to where you're going. If someone is rowing too hard and another not enough the boat is going to turn when it's not supposed to, and that's when you just dialogue in order to readjust and get back on course. It's not about blame--it's about getting to where you need to go without tipping the boat. It's basically another "we" analogy.
Score-keeping, falls under the same category as, "that isn't my job... it's your job" go-around. Some marriages blend seamlessly, where an understanding is mutually and happily reached, and life happens, while other marriages can't avoid the thralls of, "one for me... one for you".
Luckily, for DH and I, we sort of just feel into a naturally happy routine where, because I was to be a housewife/homemaker/stay-at-home mom, it was understood (by me) that all things, cooking, cleaning, baby/child, shopping, etc, would fall on me, and going to work (outside the home), and all other heavier, more demanding things like home-maintenance, yard-work, vehicle-care, etc, would be my husbands baby.
Lucky for us, it worked, and is still working after all these years, and we're always in tune with one another, lending extra if/when the other is tired or just needs a break. My husband is not the baby/kid type, so I never had the option of being spelled off by him at any time in that department, but he made/makes up for it in so many other ways/departments. I simply cannot complain.
Aside from being old-fashioned in my practices, I'm also old-fashioned in my beliefs, and that IMO helps keep things steadfast as to what is expected. To a certain degree, I wouldn't want my husband straddled to kid-care after him putting in an 8 hour day at the office, just as I know DH doesn't expect me to run outside and wash the vehicle or mow the lawn after a 15 hour day at home, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids, shopping, etc.
Marriage, definitely, is not 50/50! LOL! But if you can find a happy balance, it makes for a much better union.
Enough for now... my entry is long enough. LOL! I'll visit/revisit this thread again (later) to lend more to the discussion.
Wildflower
2-8-13, 12:18am
We love each other dearly, and we're best friends too, therefore we've always helped each other out, so there's never been any scorekeeping. Job division always fell to who was better at or liked doing that particular job best. Now that we both have health problems, we take up the slack on what the other one is no longer able to do physically. Works for us.
I really wanted to be a full time mom. My SO was willing to support me. And I was willing to live really cheap to make it happen. For 15 years I did almost everything at home, including ard work, homeschooling, cleaning , laundry, etc.
Then life changed and now I'm the primary wage earner and I give him the to do list .... he gets groceries, takes care of things at home, etc. When I'm not at work, I do whatever i want. Sometimes its laundry, cause I like that chore. But its voluntary.
It all evens over time. This story spans 31 years ...
I struggle with this with my DH too -- it's hard to find a balance that works and seems fair. I think it is harder if you both are working outside the home, because there is only so much free time you each have. For us, these arguments surface when one or both of us is not feeling cared for or appreciated. And yes, it can often descend into a tit for tat, childish battle of "who's the biggest self-sacrificer." But what underlies all of it is a failure to communicate clearly about our respective needs. That is something we are still working on, even after 16 years of marriage. My experience is that it works much better when we handle it in that way. Rather than "I spent 2 hours with the baby so now it is your turn" can you frame it in terms of "I really need two hours three evenings this week so I can go to the gym -- can we agree on a time for that?" When I put things in those terms DH always steps up to the plate, and vice versa. It feels different, somehow, responding to a need that is clearly stated rather than being guilt-tripped into doing something on a tit-for-tat basis. That is really our biggest issue -- when we don't communicate clearly about needs/expectations we tend to fall back into a really negative, passive agressive pattern. I hate it, but find it very hard to change. Working on it. One day at a time. Hopefully we'll work it out eventually.
lhamo
I think it is really difficult to find balance when there is an infant-to-two-year-old in the mix. They bring almost boundless joy, but caretaking is highly demanding, especially if the baby doesn't take bottles that might allow another adult to take a feeding time, and also especially if said baby does not sleep through a solid portion of the night - sleep deprivation does not enhance anyone's mental health or mood.
Rather than scorekeeping, we ask one another for favors. "I need a break from babycare, can I go out for a walk?" "If you have time today, could you vacuum?" "I have a meeting Monday night, would it be possible for you to (be home early to watch baby/pick up baby at daycare/etc)?"
+1 Lhamo
I grew up in a family where Mom was the martyr, "look how much I've done for you- so now you have to take my side/do what I want". When I'm overwhelmed, I tend to fall into the martyr syndrome. But it never works to get my husband to pitch in, it only works to get him into a snit about my attitude.
As I get older, I've learned that I just need to articulate my needs better and not expect him to be a mind reader. As in, I had a tough day and I could really appreciate a shoulder rub, instead of thinking he'll just offer.
Only recently (after 28 years of marriage) have we gotten into what I feel is a fair division of labor. He just never saw all the work I was doing. When I recently went back to work, I had a big board with yellow stickies on it, each of which had a daily chore on it. And I told him, which of these are you going to pick up, because I'm not going to be able to do it all anymore. I've tried similar things before that didn't seem to stick. Maybe my husband is finally mature enough to see what it takes to keep a household running.
So let's pick one thing: staying with baby. Isn't one of you more interested in staying with the baby than the other one is? If that's merely a chore for both of you, I feel sorry for that baby, but I doubt that's the case, I just don't understand the mindset that each of you have to do equal amounts of Whatever. If one of you is more of a caretaker of baby than the other, there is nothing wrong with that.
I think we both love being with our daughter a lot, and we both have jobs we love which require us to do a fair amount of work at home which is hard for either of us to keep up with when we're doing a lot of childcare. I do more childcare in general and have since the beginning and am mostly okay with that, though I do think the issue is partly, as lhamo said, one of appreciation. Though about three days a week I do several hours more childcare than him, if I ask him to cover extra time on the weekend, he gets indignant and that's one of the times, I find myself saying, "Hey, I do about three hours more than you three out of five weekdays - this shouldn't be an issue." It seems like there needs to be a place for me to give him that reality check, but then, of course, it escalates into trivial spats about fifteen minutes here and there. It seems like a certain amount of "spelling things out" is necessary (e.g. herbgeek's yellow stickies), but I do understand when it turns into tit for tat, it isn't good.
I'd say he and I are making progress on this - we are at least aware the scorekeeping is a problem - but don't have any guidelines for determining what's a "healthy" reality check and what's unproductive tit for tat.
I'd say he and I are making progress on this - we are at least aware the scorekeeping is a problem - but don't have any guidelines for determining what's a "healthy" reality check and what's unproductive tit for tat.
Okay, DW and I have only about three years in, but both of us are in our <mumblemumble> years and we both learned from our previous marriages. I would say the one thing that provides the "reality check" you're looking for is the ability to take a breath or two and not just react.
That doesn't mean you just swallow whatever it is you want (or don't want). It just means instead of immediately demanding "compensation", you give it a moment and think 1) what is behind my reaction (really tired/frustrated with situation/bad day/partner habit/whatever); and 2) what is the overarching goal the two of you have? In your case, DD may have had a really bad day, which made your day really bad, which really will shorten your fuse with DH. That's understandable! But is what you want just a respite? Does it have to come from DH? Then you can ask for what you want and not insist on some attempt at 50/50 (which hardly ever happens anyway).
DOn't get me wrong, DH and I bicker often about who does what! haha. But it helps when partners just adopt chores, that way everything doesn't have to be negotiated, we are spending our negotiation time on new things or important existing things.
Take The Dishwasher: DH creates a (in my mind) huge amount of dishes because he bakes and he makes breakfast and lunch at home. 75% of the dishes we do are "his." Some years ago we had a deal where I loaded the dishwasher and he unloaded, but then he decided that I couldn't load it properly so we switched and I was unloading. Then, because I didn't unload it in a timely fashion, he claimed to never know when it was full of clean or dirty dishes. hmmm. So I just took over loading and unloading, and he doesn't have to critique my poor loading skills because he doesn't see dishes with food remnants coming out of a clean batch. Also, he's just busy around the house and I no longer mind doing all of the dishes. I do them on my schedule which means sometimes we are near to running out of clean dishes.
I remember reading decades ago, long before I was married, about Paul Simon and his first wife getting a divorce. He said they bickered too much about household chores such as who took out the garbage.
I remember thinking, Paul for God's sake, you can HIRE someone to take out the garbage.
random fact: Now I see that Paul has purchased a house for wife #1 (Peggy Harper) in Nashville, so they still must get along at some level.
DH and I never had 'his and hers' jobs in our 47 years together. There were some he preferred to do (mowing the lawn, repairs and firewood supply) and some that I did (gardening and cooking).
Other than that, we simply said what was needed to be done or just did it without comment.
I like the idea of a family meeting to develop a list of household activities that need attention with post-it notes and go from there. If there are others in the family, like kids or inlaws, they can pick up the slack as well.
Assume that there is no right vs wrong. Strive to maintain a connection in the conversation and negotiate so that each feels heard, somewhat satisfied with the outcome and respected
My husband and I are involved in marriage ministry. One thing we say to couples is that marriage is NOT 50/50. It is 100/100. You have to give of yourself 100% to the other person. It's about serving one another and dying to yourself and putting your own personal agenda, needs and wants on the back burner. Putting the other person first at all times. When both in the relationship do this, there is balance and harmony as you serve one another out of love.. not a sense of obligation (keeping score or upping the score).
We also advise against there being a "division of labor". There is only labor and two people trying to get it all done together as TEAM. If the house needs to be cleaned, then both should be tackling the chores to get it done. Does that mean that due to work schedules and outside commitments, one person may be doing more than the other? Sure it does. It happens and is the reason we shouldn't be keep score.
I work part time and my husband works full time. We both have volunteer commitments that take an equal amount of time. My husband has side contracts that he needs to have time to do. I make sure that as much as possible is done around the house as possible so that my husband isn't burdened by it when he gets home. The house is clean, laundry done, errands run, yardwork I am capable of doing I do. etc.. Sometimes my work schedule means he cooks dinner, other times we do it together and sometimes I do it all. I view it as my job to get as much done as possible so that he can have some down time. He views his job as the same towards me and the result is that we are taking care of one another's needs before our own, putting the other person first and feeling mutually respected, loved and cared for.
+1 what artist says. Like Steve, I've been around the marriage-unmarriage block a time or two and this is what I've learned: you have to be committed to understanding what makes your mate happy, then do that. Maybe what makes her happy is what "The 5 Love Languages" guy calls "acts of service." That sounds like what we're talking about here. BUT that might not be the love language your spouse speaks. Maybe for him it's physical touch or words of affirmation (like it is for my guy). The point is, when you understand what's important to the other's happiness, you strive/commit to respecting that, caring enough about it to work toward it.
So, sounds like many here struggle with their spouse fulfilling their need for "acts of service." Probably because that's not so important to the spouse, who needs to realize it IS important to you, and conversely, you need to find out what's important to your spouse, so you both feel fulfilled.
I probably haven't articulated this very well, but if interested, you can find out your love language here (might be fun):
http://www.5lovelanguages.com/
Miss Cellane
2-8-13, 4:26pm
I think we both love being with our daughter a lot, and we both have jobs we love which require us to do a fair amount of work at home which is hard for either of us to keep up with when we're doing a lot of childcare. I do more childcare in general and have since the beginning and am mostly okay with that, though I do think the issue is partly, as lhamo said, one of appreciation. Though about three days a week I do several hours more childcare than him, if I ask him to cover extra time on the weekend, he gets indignant and that's one of the times, I find myself saying, "Hey, I do about three hours more than you three out of five weekdays - this shouldn't be an issue." It seems like there needs to be a place for me to give him that reality check, but then, of course, it escalates into trivial spats about fifteen minutes here and there. It seems like a certain amount of "spelling things out" is necessary (e.g. herbgeek's yellow stickies), but I do understand when it turns into tit for tat, it isn't good.
I'd say he and I are making progress on this - we are at least aware the scorekeeping is a problem - but don't have any guidelines for determining what's a "healthy" reality check and what's unproductive tit for tat.
Instead of approaching this as asking him to cover more hours on the weekend, and letting the fact that you've already done more than your "share" of the childminding, maybe a change in approach would help?
Forget how much you have already done. Look at your goals for the weekend. You want to go to the gym, visit the library, cook some freezer meals for the week ahead and catch up on mindless TV watching/reading Gothic novels/doing your nails/spinning daydreams/just have a free hour without having to watch the baby. So take your plan to your partner, who will also have his own plans for the weekend, and ask him when he can assume the baby care so that you can get your plans done. Same for him--he shares his plan with you, so that together you both work out who has the child when, so that both of you get some childless time and some time with the child. Maybe not equal time, but enough to get what you need to get done, done. Not a matter of how many hours each of you has, but a matter of what chores need to get done, what can be let slide for a few days and how best to meet the child's needs.
Because I'm wondering if it's not the "extra" hours that's bothering you, so much as that he gets to choose whether to watch the child or do his own thing. It doesn't seem as if you have that option. That would bother me quite a bit.
OK-I have a different perspective on all this. Most of my adult life I have been a single parent. I was the only one in the house who knew how to or cared about chores getting done. Therefore, if I cared...I did it.
No blame, no resentment, no tally scores. And I was doing all of a household of 4-5 people.
Maybe if I was the second adult in the house watching the other adult watch TV while I worked, I would be pissed.
But I do not understand this dynamic. I chose to have kids...I do the work.
Many thanks, All, especially to those of you in relationships who shared what has worked for you.
One of the things that's helped me is to remember that onen of the nicest things we can do for each other is pick a task that's the other's and do it for themt they hate it, and do it for them today, unasked. This always says love in our household.
Gardenarian
2-11-13, 5:06pm
Hi ejchase -
This was a big issue for me and dh when our daughter was young. We both found the baby years really tough (I think our combined lack of parenting skills actually created a high-maintenance kid.) I found being in a mother's group (La Leche League) very helpful.
I remember a stupid argument, he was saying "I watched her for four hours while you were at work!" and me saying "And how many hours are there in a day, HOW many??" because really, a young child is a 24/7 job.
Once she turned 4 or so, everything smoothed out.
This was a big thing for me since I believed in the 50/50 rule....we would argue a lot. Then I had to really sit down and re-think what I was doing....I never had great role models in my parents for what a GOOD, caring, nurturing marriage should be. DH needs affirmations and I need to be shown. If I ask him to help me clean the house, he does....when he needs help in yard work, I am there. I agree with others, ask him for what you need and then work on a compromise together to attain that. That 50/50 thing is total crap! :)
I don't have any children so I can't comment on that front.
I forget who the other poster was who said they work full time and then pretty much do what they want around the house when they get home. That would describe my situation quite well.
However, I have been finding myself getting very frustrated with my SO lately. For e.g., he left dishes in the sink for over two days (and we have a one-basin sink, so there's nowhere else to go if you need to use it). I got mad because of that, and when I went to wash them myself, he told me I was being "passive aggressive and that pissed him off."
I told him I am tired of having to remind him to do stuff that is "his job". I said, "How would you like it if we got a shutoff notice from the electric company, because I couldn't be bothered to pay the bill?" He really couldn't see the connection between the two events.
I don't want to hijack this thread--but what do you do when one party isn't keeping up with what they agreed to do?
treehugger
2-14-13, 3:15pm
I don't want to hijack this thread--but what do you do when one party isn't keeping up with what they agreed to do?
In my mind, this issue isn't about chores, but about the quality of communication in your marriage. Work on improving that, and the chores issue solves itself. How you solve that is completely personal to the two of you, though, so I can't give advice there.
All I can say is what works for us: we are always free to discuss any and all topics and to speak our minds. And we listen, really listen to each other. So, when there are disagreements, we are pretty good and being able to see each other's point of view (sure, sometimes we don't see it until it's pointed out) and then that clarifies what the disagreement is really about. Which often turns out to be more trivial than it first felt. :) So that's why "disagreements" usually just disappear after a good discussion.
Kara
I am recently married and I find comments like, "there's only labor" and "you just work together until the work is done" to be deeply confusing. Sure, there's labor but who decides what amount of labor is appropriate? For example, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to clean up right after dinner and miss the last of the sunlight but my spouse thinks it's ridiculous to leave the kitchen before it's spotless. I think it's perfectly okay if I leave my clothes on the floor next to my bed, he thinks they should be put away in the closet. He thinks we need to vacuum every day, I think we should vacuum when it's dirty or once a week. I think we should run the dishwasher when it's basically full, he thinks we should load it until the items don't necessarily come out clean.
So who's right? We negotiate, but I still feel like I'm cleaning too much and he still feels like we're not cleaning enough. Sure I want him to be happy, but I'm not going to spend every minute of my free time cleaning. Yes, he wants me to be happy but he can't leave until everything's perfect.
Maybe that's the problem, we're not giving 100% to making the other person happy but then neither of us are going to be happy either way if we do work 100% for the other person.
I don't want to hijack this thread--but what do you do when one party isn't keeping up with what they agreed to do?
It took me more than 25 years of marriage to be able to have any answer here at all (and not necessarily an optimal one). But if I can calmly explain what I need done, it happens much more often than if I 1) expect it just to happen or 2) lay out all kinds of guilt that they said they would but didn't or 3) play the martyr card "I work full time too, and do all this other stuff, so why can't you contribute just a little, that's all I'm asking".
So I say I've had a hard day, could you please take care of the recyclables. Or could you please rub my shoulders. Instead of seething, which is what I used to do.
fidgiegirl
2-14-13, 11:39pm
I am recently married and I find comments like, "there's only labor" and "you just work together until the work is done" to be deeply confusing. Sure, there's labor but who decides what amount of labor is appropriate? For example, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to clean up right after dinner and miss the last of the sunlight but my spouse thinks it's ridiculous to leave the kitchen before it's spotless. I think it's perfectly okay if I leave my clothes on the floor next to my bed, he thinks they should be put away in the closet. He thinks we need to vacuum every day, I think we should vacuum when it's dirty or once a week. I think we should run the dishwasher when it's basically full, he thinks we should load it until the items don't necessarily come out clean.
So who's right? We negotiate, but I still feel like I'm cleaning too much and he still feels like we're not cleaning enough. Sure I want him to be happy, but I'm not going to spend every minute of my free time cleaning. Yes, he wants me to be happy but he can't leave until everything's perfect.
Maybe that's the problem, we're not giving 100% to making the other person happy but then neither of us are going to be happy either way if we do work 100% for the other person.
That's us! That's us, too! DH's mother, not surprisingly, was one of these mythical superwomen who could work full time and keep a Better Homes and Gardens magazine image of a home and a Martha Stewart meal on the table every night. I have no good answer, really - after four years living together, I am starting to get better about not taking it personally when DH wants to clean up something (because I'm imagining that even though he's not saying so, he's really thinking "it's not clean enough because YOU didn't clean it up"), and also not jumping up and starting in on it every time he says something about it. He would fill all our waking hours with chores. If he wants to spend his time that way, great, but I am telling him more and more that I'm not doing x or y right now and not feeling guilty about it. But he will occasionally guilt trip through jokes. He jokingly says that I'm like my parents, who are living in a filthy near-hoarding situation. That does not feel nice, particularly because he knows that I believe that most jokes or teases, other than slapstick or silly kid jokes, are rooted in "truths" the joker holds deep and unspoken - whether or not they are a reality (think racist jokes or all those times you frugalistas have been good-naturedly needled for being "cheap" - I believe there's a reason behind that.) A few dishes on the counter and a few tumbleweeds of dog hair are a far cry from the distressing way in which my parents live, and it's especially irksome because on the other hand, my parents joke by calling me "Monica," a reference to the OCD Monica of "Friends" who had to have everything perfect and just so. There's no pleasing anyone. Maybe it's a woman's cross to bear, really - expected to do everything but satisfying no one. So no answer, but I hear you.
LOL that got long - maybe because I had a stinky meeting this morning at work! Sorry! :)
iris lily
2-14-13, 11:57pm
I am recently married and I find comments like, "there's only labor" and "you just work together until the work is done" to be deeply confusing. Sure, there's labor but who decides what amount of labor is appropriate? For example, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to clean up right after dinner and miss the last of the sunlight but my spouse thinks it's ridiculous to leave the kitchen before it's spotless. I think it's perfectly okay if I leave my clothes on the floor next to my bed, he thinks they should be put away in the closet. He thinks we need to vacuum every day, I think we should vacuum when it's dirty or once a week. I think we should run the dishwasher when it's basically full, he thinks we should load it until the items don't necessarily come out clean.
So who's right? We negotiate, but I still feel like I'm cleaning too much and he still feels like we're not cleaning enough. Sure I want him to be happy, but I'm not going to spend every minute of my free time cleaning. Yes, he wants me to be happy but he can't leave until everything's perfect.
Maybe that's the problem, we're not giving 100% to making the other person happy but then neither of us are going to be happy either way if we do work 100% for the other person.
The traditional answer with that stuff if: whoever's cleanliness standards are highest has to complete the work.
SteveinMN
2-15-13, 10:41am
I'm with Iris Lily on this. Before I married the first time, I managed to wash my own laundry without turning my undies pink or shrinking clothes beyond recognition. But XW had rules about not mixing colors and fabrics. I can't say I noticed any difference in how clean the laundry was. So laundry became XW's responsibility because she didn't like the way I did it. Her higher standard; her job. Similarly, DW and I have different standards of germ control in the kitchen. So keeping the kitchen clean is my job. It works without resulting in the quiet turmoil that someone didn't do a chore "properly".
The traditional answer with that stuff is: whoever's cleanliness standards are highest has to complete the work.
+2 (since steveMN already +1ed it.)
And I think that it is OK to draw big "hands off" circles (literally or figuratively) around certain areas of the house or where other people can rule. So a spouse may have an office or a man-cave or a craft room that is free from intervention or comment from others in the house. My teen's rooms are each like this, with low levels of cleanliness mandated (no food, no rotting science projects, cat puke must be cleaned within 48 hours) as those things effect the quality of life in the rest of the house.
When my children were small, I did most of the child care, because quite frankly I was far better at it than my spouse. On a very rare occasion--say I was ill, or had to work several on-call shifts in addition to the day time hours--I would request help with night-time feedings. Thankfully he stepped up to the plate w/o complaint.
fidgiegirl
2-15-13, 6:11pm
I agree, in theory. But when DH is grumbling as he does it, or griping that he does "all" the cleaning and I do "none," then that's a problem. But as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, some of these issues aren't about chores at all, they are about communication.
ex-hubby and I both had very demanding jobs that kept us apart a lot so we tried to maximize our time together. So we not only shared all the chores, we did them together. When we cleaned the house, we did it together. When we did yard work, we did it together. Laundry...together. shopping, cooking, dishes...together. working on the cars or home maintenance...together. It not only allowed us to spend more time together interacting, but often was a lot of fun and lead to many... ummm... romantic interludes that would not have happened if we had each been doing chores seperately. It also gave us the feeling that each was pulling their own weight because we were litterally doing the same things at the same time. While this probably wouldn't work as well with children and childcare, there are probably ways that it can be incorporated.
I agree, in theory. But when DH is grumbling as he does it, or griping that he does "all" the cleaning and I do "none," then that's a problem. But as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, some of these issues aren't about chores at all, they are about communication.
I think John Gottman - or some marriage counseling guru - has made the point that "always" and "never" (which I see as analagous to "all" or "none") are two of the most destructive words in fights. My SO and I are in the process of trying to weed them out of our fights, and it seems to help, both because it's a reminder to the person saying them that they are very rarely accurate and because, due to their obvious inaccuracy, they are maddening to hear.
Maybe your SO would be willing to drop the "none" and the "all?"
BayouGirl
2-15-13, 10:30pm
Scorekeeping doesn't usually help in a marriage. Scorekeeping is for when you are in a competition with someone, not in a relationship.
Everyone here has really valid points of view and insight. I try to remember that I do the things that I do around the house because I love BayouBoy and I like taking care of him. If I can't do something with love, and am resentful of having to do it, then I don't do it.
Communication is so important and it is not just talking. I want BB to know that a lot of the things that i do are my way of expressing my love and I also make sure to tell him how I appreciate the things he does for me.
EJ, we had a time when our oldest was a baby when we fell into that pattern and we had a roommate at the time, a dear friend, who told us kindly, "You fight when you get to the point where one of you is basically saying 'I'm tired and overwhelmed! I need help!' and the other one is saying 'Crap! So am I! Where does that leave us!'" That girl was brilliant. Wise beyond her then 18 years. :) I think Rosemary and someone else (can't recall now) brought up a good point that sometimes it's helpful, instead of making it a scorekeeping session, that asking for help can be more effective. I think, too, that just knowing that there are moments when it really is just a lot for even two people who are trying to handle can help diffuse some tension.
Slightly OT, EJ, how old is your baby? I remember we were pregnant at the same time, but I can't remember which kid I was pregnant with. She is approximately one or two, right?
Stella - she'll be two on March 12. I think she's the same age as your third, right? And now you have four? I've lost track!
LOL. She is the same age as my fourth of five. They are totally in the monkey phase right now. It gets easier, I promise. :)
Loved these two cartoons, which made me think of this thread!
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/42-17773330.jpg?size=572&uid={3b0178ae-9bc6-497d-9a46-b9a4dd153817} http://family-fishing.wikispaces.com/file/view/large_menhousework.jpg/43295035/363x369/large_menhousework.jpg
LOL. She is the same age as my fourth of five. They are totally in the monkey phase right now. It gets easier, I promise. :)
Well, despite the topic of this thread, I'm loving the monkey phase.
Mrs. M - thanks for sharing those. Very funny!
Well, despite the topic of this thread, I'm loving the monkey phase.
I have a soft spot for monkeys too. :) I think two year olds are hilarious.
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