View Full Version : using grandparents for daycare: a touchy issue
poetry_writer
3-7-13, 11:03am
Have any of you kept your grandchildren full time while their parents worked and did they pay you? an unpleasant situation has come up in my family. I provide daycare 3 days a week (6:30 am to 4:30 pm) for my 6 month old grandson. We had planned on this before he was born. We had also said they would pay me...some. Well some has turned into..nothing. I have been unemployed for several yrs and decided to not return to the workforce, but to live as frugally as possible on what I have. Times are somewhat tough, you know. I brought up the issue with my son again and he seemed put out that I was asking for pay. I was very hurt by the convo. I should have , of course, let them know clearly what i expected to begin with and stuck to it. I didnt. I am very surprised by their reaction and they seemed to just dismiss my request for a small amount of money weekly. I am not able to look for the occasional part time job, obviously, doing this for them.......So, have any of you kept grandchildren during the day while parents worked? Did you charge them money? What is a fair amount? In my area, full time daycare runs about $150 a week. I asked for $30 a week. Love my grandchild more than anything. He is an utter delight and I enjoy my time with him. But this isnt going well, because i'm feeling used and unappreciated. Any thoughts? Thank you.
Miss Cellane
3-7-13, 11:15am
If you need money, you need money. If providing free childcare prevents you from earning the money you need, then you need to stop providing the free childcare.
Sit the parents down. Tell them the truth. You either need to get paid for the childcare, or you will sadly have to stop watching your grandson and get a part-time job. Their choice. Remind them that payment was discussed before you started doing the work. You want them to fulfill their part of the bargain.
Do your research first. Sign up with a temp agency. Have your resume ready. Refer to jobs you've seen advertised locally. "You know, there's a 12 hour a week job at the library. They are paying $12.50 an hour. And the convenience store down the corner needs someone for mornings. They're only paying $8.00 though."
If they turn down $30 a week for 24 hours of care a week, they are nuts. That's barely over a dollar an hour.
What other grandparents do, how much they babysit, whether they get paid, really doesn't apply here. It's about what you need, and want.
Oh bless your heart for helping out. My parents would often travel (its a 10 hour round trip) to take care of my babies when we'd travel for art shows. Or we'd drop them off on our way to a show. I always tried to give something (even a gas card) and it was always refused. At the end of the year I'd give them a weekend in a cabin at Big Cedar Lodge and they seemed to like that. My parents didn't need the money but if they had been in your situation I would of paid something for sure.
A friend of mine who works was offered by her son and DIL to take over childcare for their two toddlers. She asked what they were willing to pay because she'd be giving up a decent job. They hemmed and hawwed and ended up confessing that they were trying to get out of their current childcare expenses of $100 a week and thought she'd just do it out of love. She politely declined unless they could come close to her wages.
I will be honest and say they are taking advantage of you. My brother did this to my parents the point they fained illness and finally got out of watching them. It had become too easy for them to call, oh an hour before they needed a babysitter, and just drop them off. You can fault the kids.
My mom finally put her foot down and said they will provide money for food, toys to entertain them, gas money if they had to go somewhere and ticket money. He has 3 kids so he got the point that it wouldn't come cheap. What upset her the most was the fact they had money for $100 dinners but nothing for daycare/babysitters/or her.
I think it's horrible to assume people are going to take care of your kids. I have my son and I work, had a husband on deployment, was in college and I used daycare. Did I like it? No but it was necessary and my son enjoyed getting out with other kids.
decemberlov
3-7-13, 11:35am
I can say that as a young mom I very much appreciate & have so much respect for grandmothers like you! I was very lucky to have my daughters Grandmom around to watch her while I was working - Now that my girls are older now, 10 & 13 she still helps me out everyday with picking them up from school. She would never accept money from me but I always brought food over for the girls and would make a point to buy her a gift certificate every few months or so, and that she would gladly accept :)
I'm sorry you are being taken advantage of. Daycare is incredibly expensive and to ask $30 a week from them is hardly anything! I know it is such a touchy situation but I think you really have to be honest with them! I wish you the best!
I am sorry, I have to agree with everyone else. I did home daycare, had my children in daycare and my family lived far away so I never had family help. In any case my mom was working full time so there was no way I could have paid her what she needed. I have had friends do the same thing, think that I will take care of a child for free or almost nothing, but it does cost money to care for a child and it costs a lot to have someone you trust that much.
I hate to say it but stick to your guns, you deserve a lot more than $30 a week for an infant however it is nice that you are willing to work with them for such a low price.
When I was growing up, my grandparents and great-grandparents were my day-care, and there was no "payment", it was just part of being family.
Honey, take an unplanned long vacation and let them appreciate just what you are doing for them. Pure and simple, they are taking advantage of you. The vacation should give you some space to evaluate and value your value, them time to appreciate your value, and the time to communicate a new reality.
Just state that next month, you are taking a vacation for 2-4 weeks and will not be available. They will plead, scream, argue, bitch, and make as much noise as possible. Let them. They need to grow up. Nothing will hurt you, the child or them. It will inconvenience them and perhaps cost them something either money or time. When you come back from your vacation (a nice quiet home time?) you can then negotiate a new contract.
decemberlov
3-7-13, 12:34pm
When I was growing up, my grandparents and great-grandparents were my day-care, and there was no "payment", it was just part of being family.
And I agree, this is how it should be! I just think there seems to be a lack of appreciation in this situation. I'm sure poetry writer would love for them to show some gratitude, maybe an offer to cook her dinner, a bag of groceries here and there, or simply a card expressing your appreciation is a step in the right direction.
And no doubt finances play a egabigger part these days, in regards to how much time a grandmother can actual afford to offer her services!
decemberlov
3-7-13, 12:35pm
Just state that next month, you are taking a vacation for 2-4 weeks and will not be available. They will plead, scream, argue, bitch, and make as much noise as possible. Let them. They need to grow up. Nothing will hurt you, the child or them. It will inconvenience them and perhaps cost them something either money or time. When you come back from your vacation (a nice quiet home time?) you can then negotiate a new contract.
wonderful advice!!
poetry_writer
3-7-13, 1:30pm
Thanks to EVERYONE for the great advice and ideas. I agree they are taking advantage of me....they know I am a soft touch for this first grandchild of mine (its disappointing of course, this has been a problem in my family, my kids never saw my ex respect me...that is another issue i know).........Bae, i would add that yes, in the past, it was just done, part of being family. But people were more considerate then, in my 2 cents worth. Family didnt take advantage of each other in my family........I am 5 years past a divorce, getting back into the workforce didnt go well for me so I decided to roll with the flow and retire early. Last week I had an offer of staying a couple days a week with an elderly couple. I turned it down, due to my keeping my grandchild. I could use the extra money............$30 is a very small amount, i considered that their wages were low in their job.....however they dont return the favor by considering my wages are NONE and I am living alone and have no income at all now........ALL of the posts were great ideas and very helpful to me. Thanks again!
awakenedsoul
3-7-13, 1:47pm
Thanks to EVERYONE for the great advice and ideas. I agree they are taking advantage of me....they know I am a soft touch for this first grandchild of mine (its disappointing of course, this has been a problem in my family, my kids never saw my ex respect me...that is another issue i know).........Bae, i would add that yes, in the past, it was just done, part of being family. But people were more considerate then, in my 2 cents worth. Family didnt take advantage of each other in my family........I am 5 years past a divorce, getting back into the workforce didnt go well for me so I decided to roll with the flow and retire early. Last week I had an offer of staying a couple days a week with an elderly couple. I turned it down, due to my keeping my grandchild. I could use the extra money............$30 is a very small amount, i considered that their wages were low in their job.....however they dont return the favor by considering my wages are NONE and I am living alone and have no income at all now........ALL of the posts were great ideas and very helpful to me. Thanks again!
I hope you take the job caring for the elderly couple. I would call them back and see if the position is still available. You deserve to be treated better. Your time is valuable, and you need the money. Any babysitting should be done on your terms. You've been very kind and generous with them.
Miss Cellane
3-7-13, 4:51pm
When I was growing up, my grandparents and great-grandparents were my day-care, and there was no "payment", it was just part of being family.
And that was very nice of them.
I take that they didn't need to work for money, the way the OP does?
Are you seriously suggesting that she continue to work for her son and DIL for free, while her financial situation gets worse?
Don't forget that money was promised for this work. It has just never materialized.
My in-laws took care of our three boys and we paid $100/week. That was in the early 80s. I think your children are very rude for not paying you and you should say so in no uncertain terms!
A friend was in the same boat or at least his wife was. Finally they told the adult kids that she would not be available and she found a job picking eggs at a chicken laying house working 4 hours a day and was much happier.
I will caution that in this case, the tension still exists as a result of choices made by all.
I agree wholeheartedly that they are taking advantage of the situation. My mom watched DS one day a week for his first year because she wanted to establish a relationship with him one on one. The other days my sister took care of him and I paid her the going rate. Raising a child is one of the most important jobs there is and I find it unbelievable that it is the first place that people go cheap. My sister got stiffed often by other parents who had excuses as long as your arm.
Your kids might want the illusion that every grandparent loves their grandchild and is blessed to spend time with them. However, that should be something discussed that fits the needs of all of you. You did discuss it and now they are not holding up their part of the bargain. Shame on them for taking advantage KNOWING your personality is to be good hearted.
You love them, you love your grandchild but your time is important and right now you also need additional income. Either you watch your grandchild a little less in order to work outside the home or they match what you would be making for that time. It is not outrageous to ask for this consideration. I paid my sister because I wanted my son brought up by family. It was of great value to me. Stick to your guns!
And that was very nice of them.
I take that they didn't need to work for money, the way the OP does?
Are you seriously suggesting that she continue to work for her son and DIL for free, while her financial situation gets worse?
Don't forget that money was promised for this work. It has just never materialized.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bae's grandmother/great-grandmother didn't work (SAHM) and so adding a kid (or two or three) to the mix wasn't that big of a deal.
I suggest that you do talk about the need for money and alternative jobs, and then see if they pony up. If they don't, then go seek another job and give them enough notice. Tell them to start looking for alternative care.
I can guarantee that they will not be happy with what they find. Even the best day care centers are not as awesome as personal, home care, and I doubt they can afford a nanny for the number of hours that they need. Nannies cost $15-25 per hr depending upon age/experience, and at 24 hrs a week, you would be worth $360-600 per week. The day care centers that I would consider ok for DS -- and there aren't many -- run about $10 per hr per child. And, in-home small child care (4 or fewer children) run at $12 per hr.
You can get government subsidies here if you qualify -- and mostly you have to be very poor or a single parent to actually qualify (single parents qualify automatically). That pays $6 per child and goes to any day care that would take the child. Some of the larger child care centers will charge $8-9 per hour per child.
So, on the low end here, a parent will pay $192/wk and the higher end will be $288.
If they think that they can afford the sort of child care that they are receiving, they better think the F twice.
And while there are times when "this is just what family does" -- it's only possible when family can afford it. My MIL and FIL are retired and don't require extra income. If they offered to provide free child care for us as family does, then good. But my parents both work (often 12 hr days with 2 hr commutes), and I can't make up the cash they can earn working, and so no, their family isn't just going to provide becuase that's what family does.
Both great grandmothers have dementia, so that's not a good idea, is it?
End of the day, if you feel like you are being taken advantage of -- and it's inhibiting your ability to earn a bit extra to help keep you independent and comfortable -- then that's what the reality is. And they may not see that reality, so you can inform them and ask for what you need or you can go and get a job at the library/church/egg laying house/hardware store. :)
So first you raise your children, then your grandchildren--all requiring time, effort, and attention--what's next, the great-grandchildren? At some point, you're going to burn out. Yes, you're being taken advantage of. Of course if/when you balk they'll hold the kids over your head. Tough situation.
I really feel for you. If you are asking only 30 dollars then that is certainly reasonable and shouldn't be a problem. Honestly they should be offering you something since they know your circumstances.
I was blessed with a wonderful little old Italian MIL who watched my son for me while I attended college but she was a stay at home mom with a husband who made good money and she adored my son. I didn't pay her but I did everything possible to help her and tell her how much I appreciated her. She was like my son's third parent and I gave her a lot of credit for the time she spent with my son.
Now I find myself in the position where BayouBoy's daughter needs childcare and we have her son every other weekend because she works. We don't expect pay but it would be nice if she would bring him with a change of clothes and the things he needs. But that is another story.
If I were you. I would have a talk with them and explain that you need to make some income and will either have to get a job and they will have to get a babysitter or they can work out a deal that is beneficial to you, the baby and them. Obviously you love the baby and it is absolutely in the baby's best interest that you keep the grandbaby. Being at home with Grandma is so much better than daycare!! After all, this is family and they should work with you for the best interest of all involved.They are benefiting greatly from your babysitting and they should be helping you, just as you are helping them.
poetry_writer
3-8-13, 3:37pm
Everyones posts are great and helpful to me and I thank you all so much. Yes, if I didnt need the money, I certainly would keep him free, i LOVE this child so much. I keep him when he is sick (try getting a daycare to do this), bath him, do all the fun grandma things and am flexible with my schedule. I need to get a spine. Physically it is hard on me....my knees are killing me! So I have some choices to make and so do they. Zoe i agree, they will not be happy with what they find if they have to look for daycare centers....
Miss Cellane
3-8-13, 4:41pm
Another thing you could do is take a small part-time job. A couple of the major department stores around here will hire people for as little as 10-12 hours a week. If you want all evening and weekend hours, they'll give them to you. Say one night shift and one weekend day shift a week. Or you could take your hours on the two days that you aren't watching the baby.
Of course, the parents might want you on one of those days you are working at the store. Pity, isn't it, that you had to take a paying job in order to enjoy the privilege of watching the dear little tyke for free, and now your schedule isn't flexible enough to accommodate their last minute requests to change.
I wonder what might happen if you engaged them in a collaboration conversation, something like this:
I have a dilemma I need help with. I need to get a part time income going, and I'm investigating part time jobs outside the home. I know this might present a challenge for you, and I'd love to work together to make sure we all can get our needs met. Let's talk about the timing of my transitioning to paid work, so we can be sure childcare is covered. I'm happy to plan this with you, and really appreciate your input.
But they negotiated an agreement once--which they now choose not to honor--that poetry_writer was to be paid a tiny amount. I don't get this; I would expect gratitude and reciprocity for such an offer, as others have suggested. (I would think they would have replied "Thirty dollars? We can do better than that!") Maybe I'm living in a dream world.
Can you look at courageious conversations and courageous confrontations books? They are so helpful (check the library). I find that my children also learned a way to take me for granted or show some disrespect based on the way their dad treated me. I had posted lots about the rough times however right now both of my girls are paying their car insurance to me and pretty much on time, I even have not had to remind them! That is a pretty huge thing, and the money i get from them is essential with my budget. So it is possible to have these conversations, i would hate to see you totally give up this time with your grandchild but I think you do need to honor your finances.
Have you ever considered a solution where they don't pay you directly but have them directly pay a bill each month (your light bill, just as an example)? That way they can't give you the runaround saying they will pay you next week or month and then they conveniently "forget" it. If they have to pay your electric bill each month then it may be harder for them to not pay it and hope you just let it slide.
I would be very honest and upfront with them about your finances. They can't expect you to go into debt or go without essentials just so they have free daycare. You NEED money just as they need a babysitter.
But they negotiated an agreement once--which they now choose not to honor--that poetry_writer was to be paid a tiny amount. I don't get this; I would expect gratitude and reciprocity for such an offer, as others have suggested. (I would think they would have replied "Thirty dollars? We can do better than that!") Maybe I'm living in a dream world.
Yes, and this is a different moment. Everything is negotiable, IMO. The biggest question I always ask myself is this... Would I rather be right, or be in relationship?
Yes, and this is a different moment. Everything is negotiable, IMO. The biggest question I always ask myself is this... Would I rather be right, or be in relationship?
redfox...somedays...I would rather be right. Some relationships are just a big sink hole......
Yes, and this is a different moment. Everything is negotiable, IMO. The biggest question I always ask myself is this... Would I rather be right, or be in relationship?
That's a sensible way to approach trivialities like political or religious differences. I don't see this as poetry_writer being "right" so much as insisting on being treated fairly, which is perfectly reasonable.
I wonder what might happen if you engaged them in a collaboration conversation, something like this:
I have a dilemma I need help with. I need to get a part time income going, and I'm investigating part time jobs outside the home. I know this might present a challenge for you, and I'd love to work together to make sure we all can get our needs met. Let's talk about the timing of my transitioning to paid work, so we can be sure childcare is covered. I'm happy to plan this with you, and really appreciate your input.
while i think this is great, and I try it all the time with various people to help make relationships work -- sometimes I just have say my peace. Sometimes, I have to stand up for myself.
And the other person might not like it, or it might shake them up enough to change their behaviors. More often than not, for me it's the latter. They change their behavior toward me, treating me better/as I want to be treated. And if they don't, then it's a strange situation.
And maybe they need to ask, too. Maybe they need to say "you know what, times are so hard that we really *can't* afford $30, and we can't afford child care either. Is there anything that we can do, like have you come for dinner each night of the week or something to off set some costs that would be simple?"
I don't know. It's a tough conversation.
rodeosweetheart
3-9-13, 8:45am
Poetry, I think if I were in your shoes, I would look for any kind of a part time job and not look to taking care of my grandchild as a job. You have much to offer in the workforce. The part time job you may find as a start may grow into something better and better paid. You need money, so I would not worry about how the kids will pay for daycare--it is their child, their decision to have a child, and you should be enjoying your relationship with your grandchild, and not having this aspect of money interfere with that relationship. That's just my opinion. Any part time job you get will put you in better shape for the better job down the road. Caring for your grandbaby will not, and you cannot get by without more money. That's my two cents, and you're a very nice person for helping out the kids!
domestic goddess
3-9-13, 10:40am
Poetry, you have gotten some good advice here. I have taken care of my granddaughters, and still do, though as they are older, it is not so often that they need me. But once the new little one comes, I think I will be back on duty. Because I lived 25 miles and nearly an hour away, I finally moved in with dd and her family. I gave up some privacy, but it is easier to take care of the kids than to have to go back and forth all the time. I also do much of the cooking and cleaning around here. But, when I have had times where I was working less, or sick, I still had somewhere to live, heat, electricity and food, so it has worked out well, for the most part.
I would probably not dwell too much on the lack of appreciation with them; that's why I come here and complain!! But I would simply say that you have bills to pay and you must have some income. Then you can work out whether that income wiil coms from babysitting or from another job. Figure out what you will need first, and make that your pay expectation. If they don't want to pay you, then let them find out what it will take for them to arrange child care in the "real world". Not many childcare providers will care for a sick child and, face it, no one will provide what a loving grandma will!
In the end, it will be their decision. If they are not happy with the decision they made, then that is all theirs to deal with. But it is truly not realistic to expect that you will do without needed items so they can have some breathing room in their budget. I know how hard this is to do when you love the little one so, But when you have to take care of yourself, practical consideratios have to come first. Maybe you might want to work out an arrangement of part cash and some dinners at their house (and their expense), or something else that would work in your situation. But the arrangement has to meet with your approval, and work in your life.
Just remind them that you love them and the little one. Let us know how it all works out!
poetry_writer
3-10-13, 10:54am
Poetry, you have gotten some good advice here. I have taken care of my granddaughters, and still do, though as they are older, it is not so often that they need me. But once the new little one comes, I think I will be back on duty. Because I lived 25 miles and nearly an hour away, I finally moved in with dd and her family. I gave up some privacy, but it is easier to take care of the kids than to have to go back and forth all the time. I also do much of the cooking and cleaning around here. But, when I have had times where I was working less, or sick, I still had somewhere to live, heat, electricity and food, so it has worked out well, for the most part.
I would probably not dwell too much on the lack of appreciation with them; that's why I come here and complain!! But I would simply say that you have bills to pay and you must have some income. Then you can work out whether that income wiil coms from babysitting or from another job. Figure out what you will need first, and make that your pay expectation. If they don't want to pay you, then let them find out what it will take for them to arrange child care in the "real world". Not many childcare providers will care for a sick child and, face it, no one will provide what a loving grandma will!
In the end, it will be their decision. If they are not happy with the decision they made, then that is all theirs to deal with. But it is truly not realistic to expect that you will do without needed items so they can have some breathing room in their budget. I know how hard this is to do when you love the little one so, But when you have to take care of yourself, practical consideratios have to come first. Maybe you might want to work out an arrangement of part cash and some dinners at their house (and their expense), or something else that would work in your situation. But the arrangement has to meet with your approval, and work in your life.
Just remind them that you love them and the little one. Let us know how it all works out!
Thanks to everyone for their ideas on this, its been a very difficult issue for me to deal with. Domestic i think its a great idea that we share houses...and I did bring it up. It was shot down.....so you can see I am dealing with some self attitudes. However, I can and will step up and let them know what I can and cannot do. They will find out soon enough. People can only step on you if you let them (this includes the people I gave birth to). They need a wake up call, and I need to clearly state what I will and will not do. It is very hard when i look each morning into that little face with his toothless grin and my heart melts, but i must take care of myself too. .......Thanks again ~!
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