View Full Version : The importance of having health insurance
awakenedsoul
3-9-13, 12:18am
I found out this morning that my 49 year old brother had a stroke Thursday night. He lives alone, so he laid in his own vomit for 30 hours. It's critical to get them on blood thinners right away with a stroke. My dad said he has the worst of the two kinds of strokes and that when the doctor looked at the brain scan he just shook his head.
My brother partied a lot, was a musician, and didn't have health insurance. (Even though he could have afforded it.) He'd had three DUI's. He was always very reckless and refused to follow the rules. He owed the IRS money, etc. I feel very sad for my parents. They are going to pay for his hospital stay. It's a sad reminder of how important it is not to let your health insurance slide. My dad was saying that it's such a shock, and that as a parent you never think this will happen to you.
I'm sorry for your brother -- I hope that he has some recovery.
Your parents may be able to negotiate with the hospital on his behalf -- they may not have to pay the full bill, etc. I wish them good luck on this.
rodeosweetheart
3-9-13, 8:55am
I do not think they should pay for a 49 year old adult's bill. If he cannot pay, then the hospital can work out a payment plan for him. Why should they pay this bill for an adult? They can ruin themselves if they pay for an addicted adult's bills, and it does not help the addicted adult.
I do not think they should pay for a 49 year old adult's bill. If he cannot pay, then the hospital can work out a payment plan for him. Why should they pay this bill for an adult? They can ruin themselves if they pay for an addicted adult's bills, and it does not help the addicted adult.
+1 Absolutely your parents are not responsible, with all due compassion for your brother, you and your family. I am so sorry, and I pray for his complete recovery.
domestic goddess
3-9-13, 10:07am
+2 This is really not your parents' responsibility. They should talk to social services at the hospital. They can possibly classify your brother as a charity case, and then they will just write off the bill. Don't let your parents commit to paying their adult child's bill. There are other ways to handle this. If he qualifies, the hospital social worker can get him on Medicaid, which will pick up the bill, or there may be another program that will pay it. This fall, once we all have to have insurance, it will be a moot point.
I'm sorry your brother had such a severe stroke. I do hope he has some reasonable kind of recovery. It is going to be a hard row to hoe for him and for all the rest of you. But, seriously, don't let them just commit to paying what is sure to be a huge bill! You aren't even looking at the months of rehab still to come.
Parents are not reponsible for the bill - but the hospital is not responsible past just stablizing and releasing him, either, which may be why they signed.
awakenedsoul
3-9-13, 11:11am
Thank you for all the replies. I'm afraid my dad already agreed to pay. I'll call and talk to him today. He was asking them about Medicaid. He said they told him it would be $170,000.
This is what's so sad with addiction. The other family members often rescue the user and clean up the mess. As creaker said, they probably signed in hopes that he will get better. I don't think they could say no and let the chips fall. Suze Orman's warnings about having long term care insurance, health insurance, and a will are echoing in my head.
awakenedsoul
3-9-13, 2:13pm
Well, I just heard back from my dad and he didn't sign anything. That's a relief. Many of my brother's musician friends have gotten together to do a benefit and they've already raised a thousand dollars on line. I'll pass on the information to my dad. Thank you for your help and advice.
I agree that they shouldn't pay the bill. My mother is in her seventies and my dad is in his eighties. They have Medicaid and are in my dad'd words, "self insured." I want to be sure they take care of their future and don't let this derail them. They are also both alcoholics. It's been a big lesson...
I do not think they should pay for a 49 year old adult's bill. If he cannot pay, then the hospital can work out a payment plan for him. Why should they pay this bill for an adult? They can ruin themselves if they pay for an addicted adult's bills, and it does not help the addicted adult. I am so sorry about your brother - and a stroke at such a young age. Very sad. Hope he recuperates fast.
However i completely agree with Rodeosweetheart - your parents should no have to pay for his medical care. If he can't pay for iot himself then a hospital social worker will apply for Medicaid for him to cover both his hospital costs and any nursing home/rehab treatment that follows. This could runs into the tens of thousands and your parents are not financially obligated to pay for it.
Oops - just read the rest of the response. Glad to see your parents didn't agree to pay. They absoluteluy should not even begin or they may be liable for the rest.
Just as a side note for others. Once, when my Dad had a heart attack and was airlifted to a hospital in LA, my sister and I were asked to sign papers to allow treatment and agree to pay any costs of treatment if he didn't have insurance. I signed knowing my Dad had full health insurance (his wife - evil step-mom, who should have been the one signing the papers never came to the hospital at all, went to work instead and never even visited him while he was there - UGH) The hospital made me feel like I didn't have a choice in this - if I don't sign he wouldn't be treated. Now I know better and will never sign such a form. So if anyone here is ever in that situation, make sure any forms you sign allowing treatment do not include an agreement to pay the bills.
Another thing Awakenedsoul (and others) most health insurances, including Medicare for seniors, won't cover what is called custodial care at home or in a nursing home. Daily things like help with bathing, dressing, walking, eating, etc... When someone has a stroke or other illness they often need this kind of care as much as medical care (often more) and it is not covered by insurances except long term care insurance plans you buy seperately. So you have to pay for it yourself or, if you are poor, apply for Medicaid to cover it. The costs for such care (non-medical related) in a nursing home can be well over $5000/month.
So sorry to hear about your brother -I hope he is recovering.
gimmethesimplelife
3-9-13, 4:03pm
Awakened Soul - sorry to hear of your brother's stroke....what is his prognosis? With rehab and therapy, what kind of quality of life can he expect to realistically have? I ask as our friend of the family who passed on last September had a massive stroke that caused his brain to die and then the remainder of his body to shut down twelve hours later. Lucky for him it didn't go that far!
I agree that your parents should not be picking up the bill, totally agreed. There may be some on this board who disagree with my stance of using the Mexican border as health insurance, but this is still taking personal responsibility for the bill. There may be some who disagree with my stance of America not being so great due to the lack of socialized medicine - but I believe all should be paying into the system for this somehow, even if it's only by volunteering somewhere somehow - at least taking some personal responsibility somehow.
I have noticed also that about your brother being a partyer - those I went to high school with - I am 46, graduated in 1984 - that have since passed on, most were partyers when I knew them. This lifestyle if held onto really seems to play havoc with the human body. Kudos to you for your emphasis on self care and growing your own food!
Again my condolences for your brother's stroke. Rob
awakenedsoul
3-9-13, 4:51pm
Thanks so much Rob and Spartana. (And everyone else.) I really appreciate your input. My dad just emailed me that he went to see my brother this morning and that he couldn't be awakened. He has had a massive stroke. The doctor just phoned my dad and said that they need to remove half of his skull or he could die. My dad told him to do what he had to do.
I told my family that if it were me, I wouldn't want that. It seems cruel. I saw a show on Oprah with a boy who had a contraption put in his head during an operation, and he was in horrible pain, all of the time. He was barely alive. I can't imagine waking up to that. My brother surfed, biked everyday, played music...he was not sedentary.
I guess when it's your child you feel like you should try everything. I'm kind of hoping he will pass away peacefully and not in pain, if it is his time. I'm not close to him, so I guess I'm more objective.
Yes, Rob. I've noticed that many people in show business that partied or took a lot of risks died young, too. He was a daredevil. My parents couldn't control him.
Thanks so much Rob and Spartana. (And everyone else.) I really appreciate your input. My dad just emailed me that he went to see my brother this morning and that he couldn't be awakened. He has had a massive stroke. The doctor just phoned my dad and said that they need to remove half of his skull or he could die. My dad told him to do what he had to do.
I told my family that if it were me, I wouldn't want that. It seems cruel...
I'm glad you were able to offer your father another point of view. It's a horrible thing to have to make this kind of decision on such a short timeline and when shocked by sudden tragedy. Even if he was in tune to holding off grossly intrusive measures (which I consdier this to be) he might not be in his right mind to act in this situation and for his son.
It's very different wehn it's grandma who has been fading for years and the end of life is expected.
There's little doubt in my mind that I would NOT want this surgery.
Let's hope the spirits that be will be looking after your brother and that which is best for him will happen.
I'm so sorry about your brother.
The doctor just phoned my dad and said that they need to remove half of his skull or he could die. My dad told him to do what he had to do.
I told my family that if it were me, I wouldn't want that. It seems cruel. I saw a show on Oprah with a boy who had a contraption put in his head during an operation, and he was in horrible pain, all of the time. He was barely alive. I can't imagine waking up to that. My brother surfed, biked everyday, played music...he was not sedentary.
AS, I, too, am sorry to hear of your brother's stroke. Life for him and several in your family has changed suddenly and greatly, and no one has had time to adjust to whatever "normal" is at this time.
I would note that people who appear on Oprah are not representative of most of the population; it is possible that the "contraption" used for most people works just fine (whatever it's doing). Certainly there is the possibility that it won't be good in the long run, but it doesn't sound like your brother is there yet.
Is there any chance your brother has a will or Health Care Directive? It would be helpful to know what he would have thought of such treatment methods when he was able to evaluate them for what they could do for him.
In the meantime, I'll be praying for him and you and your family.
rodeosweetheart
3-9-13, 8:54pm
I am so sorry, Awakened Soul, that this has happened to your brother and to your family.
Sending prayers your way, for peace and healing.
awakenedsoul
3-9-13, 9:04pm
Thank you so much for your help and compassion, everybody. It's really helped me. My dad just called me and he said that the doctor advised them not to do the surgery. He drove quite a distance to explain to them in person. My brother's brain is 45% dead, and he could just be in a facility unable to move or talk at $5,000. a month. Fortunately, my parents don't see that as a compassionate choice. I'm very relieved. (My grandma had a stroke and she was in a coma for years.) I'm really thankful that the doctor was honest with them and didn't just want to go ahead with the surgery. I feel my brother would be much happier on another plane, and out of that body. It can't serve him anymore. He went out the way he wanted...he had played a music gig the night before he had the stroke. They don't know how long it will take, but I'm hoping it's like Rob's story, and a smooth transition.
My dad said that they don't have to pay anything. That's a relief, too. He's in his eighties, and sometimes people take advantage of him, financially. Thank you again for all your wise and helpful advice! It brought tears to my eyes.
Awakenedsoul, I am sorry that you and your family are going through such a difficult time.
Oh my dear, what a powerful time in your family. It's very hard for parents to lose their children. As I am prepping for major surgery, I'm reminded to get my living will & etc. lined up just in case... I encourage others to do so as well.
May your brothers passing be gentle, and your grief be healing.
Can't imagine what you and your parents are going through right now. Things are happening so fast and it is hard to wrap your mind around them. Please know that we hold you in our thoughts and prayers.
Awakenedsoul, sending you my best. This is a tough time even if you aren't close to your brother -- it's a big upheaval.
Be tender with yourself.
awakened soul,
I'm sorry for what is happening to your family, but I also see a lot of good things in there -- compassionate doctors, lack of financial pain, and -- what I hope is -- an easy transition for your brother.
I also see, amid the sadness of the loss (whether it is partial in terms of whether he will still live or not or total in that he will pass), that you and your family have the comfort of knowing that he lived well and happy, if too short.
It might also be a good time to remind people about wills and living wills. And, making sure that people who are in charge of your medical decisions are *not* your close family. It is a huge burden. I made sure that the people making medical calls on us were lawyers who had some form of medical background or degree. The lawyers here in NZ don't really know us from adam and eve, and I know that they will execute on our wishes to the best of their professional ability with efficiency and grace, keeping those hard decisions out of the hands of family where they would second guess themselves. It is a gift that I can give to my family in case there is ever a need (and I certainly hope there is not). Even my son's care it taken away from burden of family -- my husband and I have that for now, and if we are incapacitated, it moves to our lawyer (who has our medical power of attorney).
It can make such a difference. At the very least, we need to be clear with family about our wishes and have living wills in place for them to follow so that they are less burdened.
Blackdog Lin
3-10-13, 8:16am
a.s. - my heart goes out to you, along with prayers.....
early morning
3-10-13, 10:48am
awakened soul - holding you in my thoughts and hoping for the best outcome for your family... ((((( )))))
awakenedsoul
3-10-13, 11:32am
Thanks again, everyone. My dad called me back again and he and my mom signed papers to donate my brother's organs to people in need. They both are for euthanasia, and fortunately, they trusted the doctor's advice not to do the surgery. My brother was very fit, so it's encouraging to think that his heart and other organs will help someone else and save their life. My dad was clear headed. We talked for quite a while. My brother had already declared bankruptcy, as well. I feel much more peaceful about this decision. They don't know when he will pass away. At least he didn't suffer with a long painful illness. He had told my mom when she asked him what he was going to do about his retirement, "I don't think I'll be alive then." It kind of reminds me of Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston. Some people are just very self destructive.
Zoebird,
Those are good points. That would be a good idea for me. They couldn't even get into my brother's apt. after he was hospitalized. The apt. manager wouldn't return my father's calls. (Which annoyed my father.) They had to break the door down for the emergency workers to get inside. I don't think he left any directive. He lived close to my parents, but they don't have a key. I mailed them all my info on my paperwork, etc. I'm also going to send them a key to my car and my cottage. Lots of lessons here. The hospital told my dad that this is common now with so many single people. It's a good idea to have someone you check in with each day.
leslieann
3-10-13, 11:46am
I wish you peace and gentleness during such a difficult time. I am so sorry to hear about your family situation.
I am so sorry awakendsoul! I am so glad that your parents will be ok financially and that they are able to let go. Your brother lived a good life and always did what he wanted...but it is a shame to leave so soon. Yes, that lifestyle takes a lot of us out in the 40's-early 50's. It is a price for the play....that is what we say in the rooms. It is definitely not easy when it happens though, but know that he is in a much better place.
iris lily
3-10-13, 12:39pm
Thank you so much for your help and compassion, everybody. It's really helped me. My dad just called me and he said that the doctor advised them not to do the surgery. He drove quite a distance to explain to them in person.
That is a great action by that doc. I was afraid that all your elderly father was able to hear is: "He will die if X isn't done" when X may be the worst of the options.
Two questions:
What is "using the Mexican border as insurance". We live not too far from Mexico (Northeastern NM) and I've often thought about going there for euthanasia meds (like are used on animals, can be for us too) if I knew how to go about it. Anyone here who can tell me? Or was that ference to moving to Mexico or something else?
Also, does your brother live in a state wehre euthanasia is applauded, or is he just lucky enough to have a doctor who will do something like give a big dose of morphine? When we lived in NYC, some doctors did that a lot in AIDS work, if the person's partner or parents requested it. I'm hoping it's more widespread than that.
Whatever the answers to the above, I'm so glad your father didn't agree to pay, and hope your brother can be let to die. And I'm glad you wrote us about it all. The responses have been great.
awakenedsoul
3-10-13, 3:02pm
larknm,
Rob is the one who wrote about using Mexico for health insurance. He can explain more to you. He gets his medications more cheaply there and he liked the care.
No, my family is in Northern CA. It's not a euthanasia state, but my parents and I believe that it's kinder to people and animals not to prolong suffering. I also reminded my parents of the hell my mother described to me when they upped her pain medication when she was in the hospital. She was on life support and trying to pull out the tube. They flooded her body with medication that put her in a hellish state. She said everything was blue, there were monsters everywhere, and it just awful. She felt trapped, because of being overmedicated. She was a "difficult" patient, so they did it to keep her quiet. It was really traumatic for her. I knew if I reminded her, she wouldn't want my brother stuck in that kind of a mental/emotional state.
irislily,
Yeah, I'm going to write that doctor a thank you note. It was very compassionate of him.
My dad told me that he actually felt a moral obligation to pay the bill since they did treat my brother. I pointed out that the organs are the most valuable thing they could give. You can't put a price on that. I explained to him that if he were a child, then they'd be responsible. I think I'll suggest he makes a donation instead. I was wrong about the bill. That was what it cost when my mom was in the hospital. My dad was billed for half, and they gave him a 10% discount.
Tussiemussies
3-10-13, 3:14pm
So very sorry for what you brother had gone through and what you and your family have gone through. This must be such a difficult time for you . I will send prayers....
awakenedsoul,
thanks for letting us know what happened. I'm very impressed with how your family is processing this. I agree with everyone that it's very difficult but I hope his passing is as peaceful as it can be.
gimmethesimplelife
3-10-13, 9:51pm
Awakened Soul -
Is hospice in any way involved in his health care? I ask as the friend of my family that passed on of a massive stroke last September - when the doctors determined that his brain had died and there was really nothing that could be done for him, hospice got involved and whisked him over to a house they run not far from the hospital so that he could pass on in peaceful, non-hospital surroundings.
Wishing your family peace as you deal with this adjustment. Rob
I'm glad you made adjustments to make it easier for your family to access your home, car, and materials (financials, wills, etc).
And, hopefully, things are progressing peacefully and smoothly as possible for your brother and your family.
ashleenshannon
3-11-13, 2:04am
sorry for ur bro.. I pry the god for recovery of you brother health.. Health insurance is must for now a day.It is the best for our health treatment, if we get any health problems we will get some founds from the insurance company..
awakenedsoul
3-11-13, 11:07am
Thanks everybody. My dad called yesterday and said that the doctor called and said that his brain is just 1% alive now. There are liability issues with the organ transplants. Once he's completely brain dead, they give him blood thinners and harvest the organs. It turns out that a friend of his who played music with him needs a kidney! If it's a match, it will go to her. My mom said that they can contact the families of the recipients who receive his organs. So, that is kind of exciting, and part of him will live on.
Awakenedsoul, you are awesome at problem-solving and adapting to changing information. I know this situation is more than hard on you, but you sound so emotionally healthy.
rodeosweetheart
3-11-13, 12:39pm
Awakened, how wonderful that his friend may be able to use his kidney. I think we go on in an incorporeal state and I think your brother will be happy about that, that he can help his friend who is still on this plane of being. He sounds like a generous person, from his statements, and I am glad that you have been able to communicate so well with doctors and family about what he would have wanted.
So sorry you and your family had to go through this, but I am glad for all involved in the relative speed in which all of this resolved? (I hope that came out the way I intended, meaning I'm just glad it wasn't a long drawn-out process). Doubly glad his organs will go to those in need. Please take care of yourself during this stressful time.
awakenedsoul
3-11-13, 2:46pm
Thanks SiouxQ. I just talked to my mom and it's much harder for her. Shis in a lot of emotional pain. But, she had seen him the day before he had the stroke. He stopped by; she was finishing his laundry for him. (He joked with her that I probably wouldn't approve of her helping with his laundry.) She listened to his latest recording with him. So, she has no regrets.
I think it would be incredibly difficult for me to lose my son -- no matter how old he is.
My great grandmother, when my grandfather died, she said that she just saw that little baby. Yes, he ws a man in his 60s when he passed, he had grandchildren of his own (i was 11 at the time), but she just remembered her little baby, her little boy.
I cannot imagine what your mom is feeling -- in fact I do not want to! But, my thoughts are with her and with all of you -- even if she is without regrets in her relationship with him, there is still the great sadness at not hearing his voice again, or the warmth of his touch, or more recordings, or perhaps how he would laugh at the odd things that perhaps only he found funny.
I'm listiening to my little boy, just now, running to his soundtrack (he sings when he runs around) and chattering away the story in his little mind that he's creating with lego and erector sets. I imagine with joy the man he will become. The thought of never hearing him again, or smelling his salty head, or giving him a hug just breaks my heart.
So yes. I imagine it is very, very hard for her.
So sorry to hear about your brother's passing Awakendsoul. My brother died years ago (mnotorcycle accident) it is it such a tragic loss when it happens to someone fairly young and so unexpectedly like your brother.
awakened soul, I am soo sorry. please don't diminish how hard this is for you also. My sister passed away suddenly at the age of 50 exactly two years ago 3/13/11. As I know it was more difficult for my mother and neice. It was very difficult for me also. Sending you a cyber hug.
awakenedsoul
3-20-13, 5:05pm
Thanks. I'm sorry about your siblings, Spartana and margene. I guess this happens in families more often than I realized. I have more anger and rage at certain other family dynamics. This has brought to those feelings to the surface. I get frustrated with the drug addiction and alcoholism in my family. There's nothing I can do about it, but it's exasperating. I have been arguing with my younger brother over the way he is handling things. Grief brings out strange things in people. I wanted to sell my brother's things and use the money to pay off his debts. Other siblings and my SIL just want to take his valuables. They were driving around in his car while he was in a coma. He didn't like or trust my SIL, and she was the first one over there, saying she wanted his stuff...(sigh.)
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