View Full Version : A useless exercise with addicts
The other night was my husband's birthday. He decided to celebrate it by going to a local gathering place, and singing for the first time (he has played music with other people, but has always been afraid to sing). He is an introvert, but over time he has carefully cultivated a number of good friends there. It was beautiful to see - very supportive - a good time. Except.
A childhood friend of his, who has always been somewhat of a blowhard and a bully, decided to stop in to hear him. He had gotten rip-roaring drunk (which is what he does, as an alcoholic), insulted my DH, insulted other people, told my husband to never bother singing again because he "sucks," then couldn't drive himself home, and so my husband let him spend the night at our house, where he wrought other kinds of mayhem and disruption. He blacked out, and didn't remember a thing. People know this about him, they turn a blind eye to his antics, saying 'that's just how he is.' My DH says he's always been a bully, controlling, etc., but he's just gotten used to it.
At 50 I don't have much of a temper any more...it takes a lot to make me mad, just doesn't seem important to do so most times. But I guess I am just so tired of the damage addicts have done in my life, so angry to see someone I love get his feelings hurt, that I really lost control. When he sobered up, I read the guy the riot act, really laid into him viciously, reminding him of all of his abuses of other people, my DH, his parents/siblings, friends, and perfect strangers. I turned off all my normal diplomatic filters and just ripped the guy a brand new aperture at a very high volume. I scared myself with the savagery of my anger. Years of buddhist study, right out the window.....
Why write this here? I know there are quite a few folks here who have had experiences dealing with substance abusers, and I know they'll say this was a pointless exercise, will do no good, and will likely cause more problems than it solves. And they're right. But is it ever justified to just express how you feel with someone who's doing bad things -- whether it "does any good" or not? I really don't want this guy anywhere near me again, ever, but I feel a little bad now that I was so honest with him. When is it okay to fly off the handle? Is it EVER okay? What would've been a better way to handle this?
I don't think you were out of line....it would have helped me if I had someone rip into me like that....but I had scared and intimidated so many people that no one ever called me out on my antics when I drank. He is sick and it is a disease. However, you are also allowed to express yourself and your emotions. I would have stood up for my husband if anyone had berated him like that.
Simpler at Fifty
3-10-13, 12:05pm
You may have saved his life. Sometimes it takes ripping someone a new one to straighten out.
leslieann
3-10-13, 12:20pm
I am reminded of a saying one of my students taught me. She had worked as an addictions counselor, after going through a recovery process of her own, but the saying is this: "If its hysterical, its historical." That is, if your reaction is over the top, you are reacting not only to what's happening in the here and now but also to old wounds not yet healed. In other words, present day stuff triggers responses from ancient history as well as the present situation.
You probably didn't do him any damage; either he'll hear something that might be useful to him, or he'll project and blame and dismiss you. But you might have illuminated something for yourself. And I guess you can do what you are doing: look at your own behaviour and see how it lines up with your values. Sometimes I think we put too much emphasis on rational self-control. It sounds like you surprised yourself.
I hate it when I get knocked out of my carefully nurtured equanimity but there is usually a good reason why I react. Usually something I haven't looked at yet, or not seen deeply enough.
Congratulations to your DH for singing in public! That is awesome and I hope he enjoyed himself.
iris lily
3-10-13, 12:35pm
I'm not sure who said we are not supposed to get mad, but why do they get to tell you how to act? Righteous anger is ok.
Perfectly aceptable to let your DH know that this was way out of bounds and that you will not tolerate abuse of him, yourself or your home.
Sympathy for the addict rarely helps but enables.
Find something that you like about the addict, even the colur of eyebrows, but reject that inappropriate behaviour that is harming you or yours.
Pleeease do not say that years of buddhist study are out the window! I struggle with that myself when I lose my temper on a rare basis, but I think it is very much not true. You know it may not solve any problems, he may or may not listen, that is okay. We are not some super being that can cause change in those around us by just meditating, sometimes we also need to raise the roof. I would probably have done the same thing if my loved one got the guts to stand up and sing and then had all that happen.
Think of it this way, you did not yell and let it all lose on someone who was a quieter and nicer individual, you expressed a whole lot of crap that a lot of people are thinking and feeling and has been building up for years and years. It really is okay, or maybe I am telling myself that as well. I totally lost it at my daughter's therapy one time, and it was at a college where they videotape the sessions. The young counselor at one point asked me if I saw my daughter crying as I yelled and I answered that I most certainly did, I think she must have talked it over with her supervisor because the next session changed the tone and we started having the conversation about holding my daughter accountable instead of just talking about how she was feeling.
It was not pointless. It was essential to sharing how this person and his behavior have an impact, and quite a destructive one by the way, on your life and the people about whom you care.
I am sort of in love with Leslie's "If its hysterical, its historical." All excellent advice and thoughts here, but there is the larger issue of how you permit others to behave towards you. They have to know that, what your limits are. This is harsh, but he stole from you in public and then you guys took him home where he could do the same thing. What happened might not make things worse, but it will change them. For better or worse, at least they will be different.
A bully is a bully, whether they ingest stuff or not. Stand up for yourself or keep being bullied; those are the only two choices. I sort of hate that whole turning a blind eye to the destructive behavior of someone, giving them slack because they are just like that. Baloney.
I think you are amazing for finding the strength to do what had to be done, what no one else was able to do. Through the years my best guess is that many people have very gently tried to help this guy. Clearly, none of that worked. What you did, well, it is working for you and your family.
All, a very long answer to Is it EVER okay? Yep.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I never express anger or any kind of strong emotion really. I used to tell myself that being a pacifist did not make me a doormat. Sort of like I actually had standards for how people were allowed to treat me. We teach people how they can treat us by allowing them to do whatever they like, never calling them, much less even mentioning, how they behave. Truth is that I pretty much am a doormat, only fairly recently being of the mind that I can move destructive people out of my life. So, what you have done stands as a beacon for me. And, I think you did it perfectly.
But is it ever justified to just express how you feel with someone who's doing bad things -- whether it "does any good" or not? I really don't want this guy anywhere near me again, ever, but I feel a little bad now that I was so honest with him. When is it okay to fly off the handle? Is it EVER okay?
Better than bottling it up inside, in my opinion.
Though I don't have much experience dealing directly with addicted individuals, I know there are some people who are very resistant to or incapable of recognizing nuance. They don't get it until you hit them with a verbal 2x4. Some people even need a 2x6.
puglogic, you did what you had to do. It's something you were driven to do, not something you'll be doing to everyone any time they displease you. Give yourself this one.
domestic goddess
3-10-13, 2:29pm
Is it ever ok to express anger? Why not? Why do the sane among us always have to choke it back, while there are others among us who trample all over our loved ones and ourselves? And that is supposed to be ok?
I say this as a very non confrontational person, who too often allows myself to be made a doormat of. Eventually the anger and resentment come erupting out of me, and it startles even me. Now, does ripping someone a new one bring about change? Not often enough, IMHO, but taking a stand and letting someone know they have crossed a line is important, if only for your own self-respect. And you never know when the message you have delivered actually will make a difference. And I think that the knowledge that you didn't just roll over and take it may well make a difference for you.
I find that too frequently people just make excuses for addicts of all types, which really does no one any good. I hope you and your dh will take the extra step of cutting this person out of your lives, so you can maintain your serenity. He, of course, will probably blame the two of you, but that is just his denial at work. Don't give it a second thought. It is the alcolholic "stinkin' thinkin'" that AA talks about. You've said your piece, now let it go and move on, without this disruptive, cruel influence in your life.
At some time your alcoholic friend needs to reap the consequences of his behavior. He abused your husband but yet you took him to your home? Get someone to drive him to his own place. You had every right to tear into him!
I'm so sorry this happened to you and your DH. I wouldn't have even allowed him in my house. Period. I probably would have tried to throw him out of the place where your DH was singing.
You are perfectly justified in ripping into him. I think its time to cut him loose forever. And I'm wondering..........of course its appropriate to take his keys away from him.........but maybe its enabling him if you're going to bring him home with you?
Cut him loose.
CaseyMiller
3-10-13, 3:38pm
You were justified in your anger and probably did the guy a favor. He won't quit drinking over this but I bet he'll hesitate to pull this crap directly with your family again. The problem, of course, is that blowing up like this takes a huge emotional toll and will take days if not weeks to get over. That is how an addict gets away with their crap. People around them just become worn down and eventually just tolerate it.
No way of knowing but I wouldn't buy that "blacked out" BS so fast. That's just a way for them to avoid dealing with their behavior by saying they don't remember.
I'm curious how he acted when you were telling him off. I'm also curious what your DH thought of it. Did he think you were over reacting?
I think your anger was completely justified and you directed it at the person who was the cause of it so I don't think you were out of line. You, DH and friends had put up with his verbal abuse, insults and total lack of respect so what you gave him was only a smidgen compared to the crap he heaped on y'all.
I am like you in that I rarely get very mad and tell anyone off. Most things I can shrug off, laugh at or express in a way that isn't argumentative. But this type of approach would be completely lost on him. He is at the point in his life where it is obvious that he is oblivious to subtle hints or constructive criticism. You have to speak in terms and a tone that gets thru his thick head. You spoke his language and gave him a badly needed dose of reality.
Perhaps this will give him a clue that he needs to change his ways. Some addicts have to hit rock bottom very hard to finally get it. Hopefully you made an impression on him and he will be more respectful in the future and stop being so obnoxious. You stood up to him which is what you have to do to bullies.
Bottom line, if he was enough of a jerk to make you so mad that you would do something so out of character, then he certainly deserved it and you needn't give it another thought.
I too, and not much of a fighter or one who yells or gets angry. So BayouBoy knows if I am mad enough to be angry then he deserves it because it is so rare (less than once a year). His friends and family will take my side and he gets no sympathy from them if I am mad at him. They all say " Well you must have screwed up bad if she got mad enough to tell you off".
So I imagine the bully tried to tell anyone that you were mean to him, he wouldn't get any sympathy from anyone. They would know he deserved it because it is not your usual reaction.
BarbieGirl
3-10-13, 4:30pm
I am curious also to see how this person responded. I think it's awesome you ripped him a new one!
Many years ago, my sister and her family moved back into my parents home while she was going back to school to save money. My father, an alcoholic had a bad night, falling down the steps and breaking his nose. It could have been much worse!
My sister went off on a tirade against his behavior. Something none of us ever did before because we all love and respected my dad, despite his addiction. My father from that day on never drank again. He just stopped cold turkey.
We never expected he had stopped for good....until the day he died we kept thinking he'd start again, but he never did. It truly was a miracle in our family.
So...maybe your rant will give him something to think about. He will certainly never cross you or yours again, I'm sure!
awakenedsoul
3-10-13, 5:01pm
I think it's really good to stand up to abusers. My approach has been to name the behavior. I don't give my time, energy, or talent to abusers. If they have a business, I don't give them my money or recommend them. There is so much verbal abuse in our culture now. It's a real problem.
People who are bullies will only change their behavior when they are challenged. It won't make him less a bully, but it will make him re-think bullying you or your DH.
It is scary to stand up to them, which is their modus operandi.
So, yes. It is OK to stand up to a bully, and if that takes anger....OK.
This is spoken by someone who has multiple bullies in her family--uncle, brother, ex-husband, son.
Thanks so much for all of the different perspectives. This was a difficult experience for me, one which took me outside my usual comfort zone and kind of messed with my self-image a little. It's helpful to read all the different ways of looking at it. leslieann, thanks for pointing out where this might have all come from.
This person reacted with shocked silence. This certainly isn't how most people react to his antics. He tried to mumble an apology and for some reason that just made me even angrier -- it is his M.O. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard him try to weasel out of the consequences of his behavior, I would be wealthy. Of course I'd still live simply..... :) My husband is processing the whole event/aftermath in his usual way. He writes in his journal, takes walks/runs/snowshoes to think things through, talks it out when he feels like it. The friend, in an action that really shows his social courage, sent him an apologetic one-sentence text message. DH doesn't have any objection to me speaking my mind...though I do think he's a little surprised to see this side of me.
He offered the friend a bed for the night because he was physically incapable of driving a car, really could barely stand, was an hour from home, and likely would've died trying to navigate the mountain roads to get there. He didn't think he could live with himself if something bad happened.
I feel as though this has taken me away from where I want to be - I prefer to spend my time learning, laughing, working in my community, simplifying, etc. instead of these weird tempest-in-a-teapot kinds of social upheavals. I'm a pretty quiet person, I smile a lot, and in general people treat me very well. So I will quietly slip back into my regular life and practice, and put this behind me. And tonight, I'm going to start by mindfully making a batch of chili to last us the week. I'm thinking black bean, maybe with some roasted chilies.
Thanks, everyone.
Pug, I don't think your tearing into the guy was out of line at all. And doing it in person, perfect. Good for you.
I think that it's important and healthy to express anger, as well as to then -- study why you felt anger. That really is what a lot of buddhist work and study is about. It's not about not having feelings, but fully having them, fully acknowledging them, and working with and through them. It's learning to recognize when a feeling is a reality, or when it's historical, or when it's both, and how to proceed as you go forward.
If you look at yourself, you'll see that there are lots of areas where things once triggered and threw you off balance emotionally -- where you would feel anxiety, fear, anger, sadness. It may not have been at all rational, even to 'feel' that way. But today, you might look at a similar or even the same situation and have NO emotion about it.
I find that all the time wiht myself. Something that would send me into rampaging diatribes about people are not longer triggers at all -- it's "cum se cum sa" (so-so, this like that). It's just what it is, and nothing more. You peacefully walk through that situation.
It's ok to have old wounds. It's ok to be angered by new, inappropriate behavior. It's ok to stand up to being bullied -- or watching someone whom you love being bullied. I understand that impulse deeply, and I think there's nothing wrong with it.
Whether or not it did some good for him is not relevant. It is only relevant if it did some good for you -- and for your partner.
I'm sorry that he got bullied doing something so difficult and so brave of him -- something that he should be proud of. And, I hope that he is well and happy, regardless of his friend's mess.
Though, I would personally keep a wide berth from him -- because I would be unlikely to not chew into him a second or third time until I managed to get through my buddhist studies. LOL
Also, on a personal level for me, when I have these big outbursts. . . it's usually the energetic expense that is the problem. I get so tired from it and it takes me a few days to recover.
I wouldn't have even allowed him in my house. Period.
DH had a friend for a long time who was exactly like that - a belligerent, rude, psychotic drunk. Every time he came around, I would feel fearful, mad - as if everything might come unhinged because this guy was so unstable. I never had the opportunity to get mad at him personally but I would have if the situation you described came up. Without any regrets. I grew up with alcoholic parents so my sympathy for addicts is limited. What I did do was let know dh that in no uncertain terms that this man was never to enter our lives again. Ever. Thankfully, he agreed that his "friendship" was one-sided and not of any benefit and we haven't seen him in years.
Also, on a personal level for me, when I have these big outbursts. . . it's usually the energetic expense that is the problem. I get so tired from it and it takes me a few days to recover.
This, absolutely. I'm planning a day of inner and outer self-care to get back to normal.
awakenedsoul
3-11-13, 11:00am
As I wrote in a recent post, my 49 year old brother passed away from a stroke yesterday. He was this type of man. Several years ago, I finally tired of his bullying and antagonism and laid into him. I was on my way to visit my parents; it's an eight hour drive. There was a fire that closed the freeway, so I had to turn around and come home. I called my parents, explained the situation, and apologized. I had a heavy work schedule, so it was too late to start again once the freeway reopened. My brother told my mom, (after looking on the computer,) "There was no fire." He would do that kind of thing. He was very sneaky and loved to pick a fight. I called him and read him the riot act. I also emailed him an article from the newspaper on the fire. After that, I stopped speaking to him. I was so sick of his madness and manipulation. He was such a troublemaker. Alcoholics can be real jerks. Now that he's dead, the relationship is definitely over. He tried to reestablish contact a couple of times, but I didn't respond. I just didn't have the patience for his erratic, violent, crazy making behavior.
I loved reading your post. Your actions were a wonderful and touching defense of your husband, because it took a lot for him to get up there and sing.
I grew up around assorted freaks and abusers, and my parents never went to bat for me against them once. Not once.
You did good. This guy won't change because of your tirade of course. That wasn't the point anyway. What you did was to protect your family, and to show anyone else who witnessed your meltdown that you have boundaries. And this is what a person who loves her family does. You sent a message: Invasion of my family and abuse of my loved ones WILL NOT be tolerated!
Anyone connected with you ought to be beyond proud of you, and grateful for you in their life! :)
Thanks, Kitten, for your kind words. I was thinking some more about what leslieann said this morning, and it was very similar to what you've just said.
I was badly bullied by alcoholics and abusers all my life, especially in childhood, and I don't think I've ever let myself really get mad about the fact that nobody was ever there for me. I'm sure my level of whirling-claws-and-teeth fury stems from that somewhat. I wouldn't recommend it as therapy, but it's been weirdly helpful in processing some of that old junk.
I so get that :)
Thanks, Kitten, for your kind words. I was thinking some more about what leslieann said this morning, and it was very similar to what you've just said.
I was badly bullied by alcoholics and abusers all my life, especially in childhood, and I don't think I've ever let myself really get mad about the fact that nobody was ever there for me. I'm sure my level of whirling-claws-and-teeth fury stems from that somewhat. I wouldn't recommend it as therapy, but it's been weirdly helpful in processing some of that old junk.
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