View Full Version : Could at&t tech support be any less useless?
Suddenly yesterday we couldn't access the internet. We use a small device that plugs into the computer. DH must have been on the phone for 3-4 hours with them yesterday. They had us try everything, and finally said the device must be bad and said we could only go with a wifi device. He was extremely tired from work and probably not thinking well, while trying to figure this out. After a good night's rest, he thought he'd try to troubleshoot it again. Then he thought to uninstall the old at&t software and install a newer version (which he has saved a few months ago when he installed it on another computer). And it worked!! Why the heck would the at&t "experts" not even have brought this up as a possibility?
Even I, who is totally computer challenged, questioned if this wasn't a possibility at the start.
Plus, in the middle of this very frustrating, several-hours-long conversation on troubleshooting with the tech, she asks: Are you happy with at&t? HELL NO! You have crap devices and crap tech support. But DH, being the gentleman that he is, said "well, this device isn't working for us."
How can a company keep afloat when they are so bad. (We have their phone service too, and it also sucks). :devil:
(We live out in the country and our options are very limited for internet service).
Anyhow....thanks to DH thinking better than at&t's best, we're back online.
Its sort of scary to think how incapacitated I felt without the internet.........paying bills, looking up information, checking the weather, talking to friends. Its disconcerting.
SteveinMN
3-16-13, 10:25am
How can a company keep afloat when they are so bad. (We have their phone service too, and it also sucks). :devil:
(We live out in the country and our options are very limited for internet service).
Anyhow....thanks to DH thinking better than at&t's best, we're back online.
Its sort of scary to think how incapacitated I felt without the internet.........paying bills, looking up information, checking the weather, talking to friends. Its disconcerting.
I know some people have a tendency to laugh (or at least shake their heads) at others who just seem totally wired, always a smartphone or computer at hand, getting the hives at the prospect of going somewhere without Internet access. But you strike me as a regular kind of person and you feel it, too.
My laptop/Internet connection is a source of connection with (many) friends, my telephone directory/address book, my atlas, my dictionary and thesaurus, my set of encyclopedias, my TV guide, my magazine rack, my newspapers, my checkbook register/budget, my weather forecaster, and (increasingly) my filing cabinet, my music library, and my cookbooks. Darn right I'll miss at least some of that if I'm someplace without it.
I can't explain why at&t can be so bad except that their network is big enough, as you've noticed, to be one of the few choices. They're also almost Too Big To Fail, which gives them license for all kinds of minor abuse. at&t's reputation is so bad that it put me off owning an iPhone for years until other carriers could offer them. (I still don't have an iPhone, but it's my go-to smartphone replacement if/when something terminal happens to mine.)
Recently upgraded software on my phone. It took a day or two to get everything back the way it was. My biggest need was for my google calendar. It's calendar and to-do list in my life. I was surprised by the fact that I could do without many parts of my phone for awhile, except this calendar. It was unnerving t not know if I was on target with my plans .... Felt like half my brain was missing. Gave me more empathy foer those with dementia.
iris lily
3-16-13, 12:04pm
This is why I keep my technology to a minimum, I will NOT spend hours on the phone to fix things. Of course the AT & T advice always ends : you need new [insert device here.] When I'm retired, then I'll get some of the electronic toys, but not until then. Then I will have hours to spend on the phone to tech support. haha, not really.
I guess I should have titled my post "Could at&t tech support be any MORE useless?" lol. I get confused by those types of statements. Its like those double negatives. haha
A year ago when we requested a drop of our landline on a particular date and which they agreed to, ATT mistakenly pulled the plug that very minute. Because our internet was tied to our landline, we had neither for exactly one month while we tried to at least get internet service back up and running. Many, many calls were made with different stories from different tech people who could barely speak English - it was a nightmare I don't ever want to repeat. When our cell contract is up with them, we are going elsewhere for service.
I knew a person who cancelled cable. They kept getting cable, but no bill. They inforned the company twice, then gave up and enjoyed free cable. I'm surprised when there are no problems with any of these services. Same with passports, DMV, post office ..... So many more problems than i remember from pre-1995 or so.
Back in the day when 3rd party companies were doing DSL but the telco's hadn't figured it out yet, I had DSL through a 3rd party provider. And Verizon kept stealing the line, which always took forever to fix. I just could never figure out whether it was accidental or intentional. I think at the time they were forced to allow the 3rd party providers to hook into their switching offices and they weren't very happy about it.
at&t is absolutely HORRIBLE when it comes to customer service!! We all feel for you and your husband. My personal experience is all those 1.800 customer service numbers lead to lies, misdirection and lost time and more stress :(
Same as Steve, I really wanted an iPhone but refused to purchase one with at&t. I choose my goods and services activities to limit my exposure to these kinds of horrific customer service experiences. I hope you are able to find a better long term solution for your communication needs.
awakenedsoul
3-16-13, 11:09pm
I'm going to have to call them because they just raised my Internet rate again. It was $24.99, and now they want over $40.00 a month. I'm only on line an hour or two a day. So, I'll have to tell them I want to cancel. That's the only way I can speak to someone intelligent. Then, I'll tell them how I dropped my business and phone line with them after being a customer for 40 years. Then they will probably give me a decent rate. It took me hours last time. This time I'll cut to the chase. I don't mind slower Internet service, if it's reasonable.
I'm glad I still do a lot of things on paper. I don't like to be too dependent on technology or electricity.
gimmethesimplelife
3-16-13, 11:19pm
I knew a person who cancelled cable. They kept getting cable, but no bill. They inforned the company twice, then gave up and enjoyed free cable. I'm surprised when there are no problems with any of these services. Same with passports, DMV, post office ..... So many more problems than i remember from pre-1995 or so.I think that's so pathetic but I feel the same way. When things are problem free in a customer service situation these days I am surprised, I almost but not quite expect customer service issues with most goods and services nowadays.
I get sometimes to the point where I don't want to admit any new technology into my life as it makes me vulnerable to those nightmare tech support phone calls routed to India or the Phillipines. And I think this frustration has definitely gotten worse since 2008 or so. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-16-13, 11:23pm
I'm going to have to call them because they just raised my Internet rate again. It was $24.99, and now they want over $40.00 a month. I'm only on line an hour or two a day. So, I'll have to tell them I want to cancel. That's the only way I can speak to someone intelligent. Then, I'll tell them how I dropped my business and phone line with them after being a customer for 40 years. Then they will probably give me a decent rate. It took me hours last time. This time I'll cut to the chase. I don't mind slower service, if it's cheaper.
I'm glad I still do a lot of things on paper. I don't like to be too dependent on technology or electricity.I've pulled similar before with Century Link with good results, and also with credit cards with sometimes good results and sometimes no budge results. But it sure doesn't hurt anything to pick up the phone and try.....And congrats for cutting to the chase! Seems like only when confronted with a loss of money will most companies take customer service seriously these days. Rob
Unfortunately, there is no good business model for high-quality, consumer Internet (or for high-quality, cable television service, for that matter). Consumers want low cost. Investors want high returns on investment. And high quality employees want high salaries and good working conditions. Like everyplace else. However, sophisticated services that have become commodities due to bargain-hunting and the consequent rabid cost-cutting are especially prone to developing a big gap between reasonable expectations for service and the reality that the industry can offer given all their other obligations. Consumers seem far too quick to accept exculpatory terms and conditions that reflect lower quality service as long as it carries with it a lower price than the higher quality service would have cost. So that's what we get. AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner, Cox, Charter, and all the rest. All the same.
There is an alternative. A friend of mine, until recently, ran a local business where he'd handle all these problems for you. He'd charge you a reasonable amount - a reasonable amount per hour of service by a degreed engineer, including the time it took to come to your home, treat you like a human being, consider your problem, and either fix it or work with your service provider, speaking their language, to fix your problem. It didn't pay quite enough to put his son through college, so that's why, when the employment situation got better, he went back to working for a company. But it did carry his family through the recession, and the people he helped were surely relieved of the burden of dealing with these things. But they paid for it, perhaps a little more (but not much more) than if high quality service was what those companies were offering, directly.
In a way, I guess this is a fairer system: If you want better service, you can pay for it; if you want a bargain, you have that as an option, instead of being forced to pay for better service than you want to pay for. As someone who would be willing to pay for better service, I'd rather the bargain not be available, since the availability of the bargain makes providing the better service less efficient (as outlined above) and therefore a little bit more costly. And it goes one step further, for me, personally: I feel like I have an angel on one shoulder telling me I want better service and am willing to pay for it, and a devil on the other shoulder telling me I need to keep my costs low so I can someday afford to retire. The availability of the bargain, even though it means what it means in terms of service quality, shames me into making the bargain-hunting decision, and therefore suffering the consequences. (No; my friend doesn't give me freebies. :))
SteveinMN
3-17-13, 11:20am
However, sophisticated services that have become commodities due to bargain-hunting and the consequent rabid cost-cutting are especially prone to developing a big gap between reasonable expectations for service and the reality that the industry can offer given all their other obligations. Consumers seem far too quick to accept exculpatory terms and conditions that reflect lower quality service as long as it carries with it a lower price than the higher quality service would have cost. So that's what we get.
And yet chains like Smashburger and Five Guys successfully charge premium prices for hamburgers compared to McDonald's and Burger King. Macy's and Kohl's are happy to sell you a pair of Levi's jeans similar to the pair you can buy at Target or Walmart. The local high-end grocery here will sell me the same blue box of mac-n-cheese as the warehouse-style discount supermarket. So enough people at some level recognize and are willing to pay more for "commodity" purchases and better customer service, enough to keep these places in business. Why does this not extend to airlines, ISPs, and wireless phone providers?
awakenedsoul
3-17-13, 12:19pm
In my case, I conserve water, electricity, gas, and Internet usage. It used to be you were billed by the number of mins. you used. Some people are plugged in all day. There are lots of family plans. For a single person who uses the Internet minimally, there aren't many options.
If I really wanted to save money I could just go on line at the library. But, I do like the convenience of having it at home. My electric bill this month was $13.00. My gas bill during the winter was $30.00. (That's high usage.) I fill my gas tank once every two months. This is just how I keep my expenses down. Other people want to pay more and use more. That's fine if they can afford it. I'd rather bank the money.
I"ve been thinking BUU's post over. I believe that I DO pay a premium cost for communication--I retain my landline for the purpose of having high quality sound transmission. If I was interested in only the bottom line I would have cut off landline subscription a long time ago. Well wait--I may have to have a landline in order to have DSL internet, can't remember.
And yet chains like Smashburger and Five Guys successfully charge premium prices for hamburgers compared to McDonald's and Burger King.That's a bit like comparing Jaguar and Ford - or more precisely, comparing the MacBook Air to a Dell Latitude. Regardless: There is a means by which the marketplace can efficiently deliver both. That's really not the case for high-speed broadband Internet service, because if you build a network, you've built a network. Sure you could offer different products based on different peak bandwidth utilization rates, but could you really get away with charging different customers different prices for the same bandwidth, the difference being only the way you treat them when the call for assistance? I don't think you'd get away with that. I think the press would rip you apart for charging for better service - something the press wouldn't think to do if you owned two burger joints - a Five Guys franchise and a Burger King franchise - around the corner from each other. Effectively, the manner by which we regard Internet, phone and cable service, is such that there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to offer a (truly) premium service.
Macy's and Kohl's are happy to sell you a pair of Levi's jeans similar to the pair you can buy at Target or Walmart.But note that there generally aren't separate basic (fill-up only) and premium ("May I wash your windows, Ma'am?") gasoline stations in each town.
Why does this not extend to airlines, ISPs, and wireless phone providers?Electrical utilities. Pay phones. Tire stores. And so on.
That's a bit like comparing Jaguar and Ford - or more precisely, comparing the MacBook Air to a Dell Latitude.
Okay, the burgers weren't the best example because there is the quality of the food to consider. But there are differing toppings and levels of service to consider.
could you really get away with charging different customers different prices for the same bandwidth, the difference being only the way you treat them when the call for assistance?
Why not? Volume purchasers of a good (laptops, hardware, food, software) get preferential treatment from vendors because they bring in the $$. When we as individuals buy that Dell Latitude from the Dell Web site, we get a certain level of support. When a company (even a small business) buys one or several of the same Latitudes through Dell Business Systems, however, they get better support -- more immediate access to higher-level technicians. I bought my snowblower from a local machine shop in part because they told me that, when it comes to service, the 'blowers they sold to customers hit the head of the queue, ahead of any waiting Home-Depot-purchased blowers.
Why couldn't Comcast sell a support subscription that allows those who want to pay for better support -- maybe speak with someone in the U.S. first, or start the call with a senior tech instead of the script-reading drone? Customers paying that bill would have no incentive to spread around their support ID or special phone number; they're paying for it. Quit paying for the support? Move to the back of the bus like every one else. Like an extended warranty.
But note that there generally aren't separate basic (fill-up only) and premium ("May I wash your windows, Ma'am?") gasoline stations in each town.
We've got 'em here -- sort of. Bigger "town", maybe, but we've got fill-it-up-yourself and full-service. Sometimes at the same station (though that's getting harder to find).
Electrical utilities. Pay phones. Tire stores. And so on.
I think the difference here is if a company is granted an artificial monopoly by the authorities. Around here, cable means Comcast. I can't get Time-Warner if I wanted it. But I can pick any garbage collector who offers to pick up here in Saint Paul. I can pay for service if I want it. I guess I'm not seeing the barriers. I understand about what you're saying about the race to the bottom, but I think it could work.
Okay, the burgers weren't the best example because there is the quality of the food to consider. But there are differing toppings and levels of service to consider. Verizon, Comcast, et. al., have got that kind of thing covered, though.
Why not?Because society has a pervasive perspective counter to it. That's the nature of service commoditization. Asking why it doesn't happen with everything is like asking why snowflakes aren't all the same, though I suspect the reason why these specific service providers are so regarded by society is because they were once heavily-regulated utilities. People are still used to regarding them as such, even though our society has decided to let them operate as businesses.
Why couldn't Comcast sell a support subscription that allows those who want to pay for better support -- maybe speak with someone in the U.S. first, or start the call with a senior tech instead of the script-reading drone?Why wouldn't you just buy a service contract from Geek Squad, or from the friend of mine who I mentioned above? The reaction most people (like us) would have to such a suggestion is derision about needing such a service, but wait - that's what you're asking for. If you don't like paying for it then you're understanding the point I made. If you're not willing to buy it when it is offered separately, why should Comcast offer it?
To be fair: There is a way to get the kind of premium service from Comcast (specifically) that you're talking about. It's called Comcast Business Class. For the bandwidth I'm paying Verizon $60 per month for plus the hosting services I'm paying Bluehost $5 per month for, Comcast will provide me business class service for $200 per month. That's the cost of the service you're talking about... about $140 per month. Still interested?
We've got 'em here -- sort of. Bigger "town", maybe, but we've got fill-it-up-yourself and full-service. Sometimes at the same station (though that's getting harder to find).You must be a younger guy. I suppose some of the other oldsters understand what I'm talking about by premium service at a gasoline station. If all you're looking for from Comcast is the marginal window dressing and smoke and mirrors form of better service, that you feel that you're getting at your local gasoline station, then you're really picking very small nits.
I think the difference here is if a company is granted an artificial monopoly by the authorities. Around here, cable means Comcast.You don't buy "cable". "Cable" is a form of distribution. It's like buying shipping and handling. No one buys shipping and handling - it's simply the manner by which that which you are buying reaches you.
And the courts have made very clear what you're buying from Comcast: Access to the Internet and subscription entertainment service. And there is competition for both in every jurisdiction in the United States. That's not me talking - that's the duly-appointed and elected authorities talking. Now we can get into a whole political argument about whether the courts and the regulators are doing their job, but this isn't the forum for that. What we can say is this is the way it is; the courts and the regulators haven't ignored the issue: They've considered it head-on and determined that this is the reality we have to live with: That dial-up Internet is competition for Comcast's Internet service, and DirecTV and Dish Network are competitors for Comcast television service, everywhere Comcast operates.
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
Okay, the burgers weren't the best example because there is the quality of the food to consider. But there are differing toppings and levels of service to consider.
Verizon, Comcast, et. al., have got that kind of thing covered, though.
I see a difference between "specifications" and "levels of service" -- Comcast can offer me faster or slower Internet service or more or fewer channels, but they're all pretty much delivered the same way; I call the same customer service number; there is almost no differentiation in that customer service. But let's let this example go. No need to get tripped up in the details of a bad analogy.
Why wouldn't you just buy a service contract from Geek Squad, or from the friend of mine who I mentioned above? The reaction most people (like us) would have to such a suggestion is derision about needing such a service, but wait - that's what you're asking for. If you don't like paying for it then you're understanding the point I made. If you're not willing to buy it when it is offered separately, why should Comcast offer it?
Well, to be specific about it, Geek Squad or your friend could help me identify a connectivity issue, but, if the problem is my ISP, contracting with them does not include a higher level of customer service from Comcast (or whoever is the ISP). The best your friend/GS could offer me is that i wouldn't have to spend time on the phone with the script-reading drone.
For the bandwidth I'm paying Verizon $60 per month for plus the hosting services I'm paying Bluehost $5 per month for, Comcast will provide me business class service for $200 per month. That's the cost of the service you're talking about... about $140 per month. Still interested?
It depends on what you need. If one needs commercial-grade uptime and support, one ponies up. I'm a photographer. Nikon will sell me plastic fantastic SLRs which will take a fine picture at a low price, but won't handle the punishment of pro use. Or I can buy one of their magnesium-alloy-bodied cameras with the heavy-duty shutter and the high duty cycle which Nikon will accept for their professional support program. Similarly, I can buy 99-cent-a-square-foot carpet tiles at the big-box store, but I cannot expect them to last as long as the $6-a-square-foot carpet tiles used at the airport.
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
We've got 'em here -- sort of. Bigger "town", maybe, but we've got fill-it-up-yourself and full-service. Sometimes at the same station (though that's getting harder to find).
You must be a younger guy. I suppose some of the other oldsters understand what I'm talking about by premium service at a gasoline station. If all you're looking for from Comcast is the marginal window dressing and smoke and mirrors form of better service, that you feel that you're getting at your local gasoline station, then you're really picking very small nits.
When I started driving, gas was 19 cents a gallon. Not a younger guy. And at least where I lived at the time, there was "service" or "pump your own". Service was more than just stuffing the hose in the filler hole; it included an oil check and window wash. There were not different levels of service. Maybe there were where you lived.
You don't buy "cable". "Cable" is a form of distribution. It's like buying shipping and handling. No one buys shipping and handling - it's simply the manner by which that which you are buying reaches you.
Now we're picking nits. I'm not sure what nerve I seem to have hit with you, but I'm thinking I've hit one. Or maybe we just need to define our terms. When someone asks me if I saw last night's episode of "That Show" on Bravo or History Channel, I tell them that we don't have that much cable programming in the house and that's that. They don't pursue the line to ask if maybe I saw the show on Dish or DirectTV instead. "Cable" at least as far as I think most people will define it here includes the TV and/or Internet access you get through the cable. Without the access/content, the coaxial cable itself is just a stiff ugly wire. Nevermind what cable may offer exclusively (such as on-demand viewing) that an alternative like Netflix DVDs don't offer. I may also choose cable for technical advantages -- maybe I can't put a dish on my roof, or I want (at least anecdotally) better pictures during storms, etc. OTOH, Comcast does not offer me the option of getting get-one-return-one DVDs like Netflix does. Distribution is not necessarily divorced from content.
I continue to maintain that there are people who will pay more for a superior customer service experience. It may not be typical to offer different levels of customer service within the same company, but it is not unprecedented for vendors to do that. And it seems to work enough for many companies to choose to offer low-service low-prices or higher-service higher-prices. A big problem is when all the vendors in a given market choose to offer bottom-level service and refuse to use service as a differentiator for customers.
I see a difference between "specifications" and "levels of service"It seems to me that your analogies have come back around on themselves, your more recent comments contradicting those that led us here. Regardless, I think by the time you get to the part of my message about Comcast Business Class, any concerns about "specifications" and "levels of service" will be obviated. Let's skip ahead to there, because everything before you address that is addressed by that.
There were not different levels of service. Maybe there were where you lived. Either that or we see things differently - but it is important to note that the way I see things, in this regard, are reflected in what you encounter in the Internet service marketplace, while the contrary perspectives, in this regard, are not.
Now we're picking nits.If that was true, I wouldn't have mentioned it. My intention was to explain how the services are actually viewed by the authorities that determine these things for society.
I'm not sure what nerve I seem to have hit with you, but I'm thinking I've hit one.Why are you talking about hitting nerves? That makes no sense. I'm not disappointed with what I'm encountering in the marketplace, because the perspectives I've outlined explain why things are the way you've encountered them. <shrug>
I continue to maintain that there are people who will pay more for a superior customer service experience.You skipped past the important point... Please explain why you don't just upgrade to Comcast Business Class. Your answer to that will address this concern you've expressed.
My biggest brush with stupidity with AT&T was when my sons phone was stolen. We called AT&T and were able to ascertain that the girl was using it to make phone calls but AT&T in their infinite wisdom refused to give us any info on her because it would violate the thief's privacy. Yep, we pay tha bill, we are the victims, it was our phone that was stolen but AT&T main concern was to make sure that the thief's privacy wasn't violated!!
SteveinMN
3-18-13, 10:14pm
You skipped past the important point... Please explain why you don't just upgrade to Comcast Business Class. Your answer to that will address this concern you've expressed.
Simply because I don't need that level of support from Comcast. If my business absolutely depended on having a Web site available for sales 7x24 or if I had a bunch of people working to develop products I sold, then I would have to determine if my requirements for uptime and access required Comcast Business Class. If it did, I'd pay up. If I don't, I won't. And I have to say that I'm not unhappy with the Comcast customer service I get as a residential customer.
And with that I think I need to bow out of this discussion. I stated my opinion that many companies offering goods and services can, do, and should offer additional levels of service for customers who are willing to pay for them. My personal policy is to reward good customer service (my perception of good) with my dollars. Sometimes that means buying from a particular vendor; sometimes it means paying for more service. Whether others want to do this or are annoyed at paying "extra" for what they consider adequate service is their interpretation and beyond my influence. And I am not interested in spending more time elucidating on this.
Simply because I don't need that level of support from Comcast.But then why were you complaining earlier about the lack of levels of service offered by Comcast?
I think I've totally missed the point you've been trying to make.
In 2008 I had a job dealing with phone service for a company's locations all over the US. As a corporation, we had dedicated support people at each of the phone companies. ATT still sucked. The one time I went over "my" rep's head to her boss, the result was no better. They gave us a referral sheet of who to call for which kinds of services and problems in which states. It was six pages long. Why have a dedicated rep and give a six page list? And when I called anyone on the list they were the wrong one and told me to call someone else.
At first I thought they were TRYING to have bad customer service but then I realized that level of dreadful could only be stumbled upon by accident.
Well I guess this thread put a hoax on our AT&T service as our internet went down yesterday. I spent over an hour just getting to square one. First, I had to go through their fake robot service check before I could speak to a human who did the exact same tests. He asked me three different times if our device was plugged in securely and implied the problem was inside our house for which they would charge a minimum $99. I had to make a second call to request service and after listening to the same spiel was told the office was closed. Huh? So finally, they called me back and I spent another 20 minutes to"schedule" a service call for today between 8 and 5. The operator said their dispatch system was down so that is why it took so long. What a joke!!! I think they must be in cahoots with big pharma because medication of some sort is needed after every dealing with them.
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