View Full Version : Work--a waste of time?
Just looking for your honest opinion here.
Do you ever really feel that work is a waste of your time on this planet?
I mean, even if you're at home, just reading or listening to music, or not necessarily being productive, does that ever seem like it's just so much more of a better use of your time than being at work?
I have always felt that way and it's only increasing as I get older and my time is running out.
This is one reason why, when I lost my last job, I was in no hurry to find a new one.
What do you think?
ApatheticNoMore
3-19-13, 3:11pm
All the time :). Well maybe not all the time, that would be obsessive, but it is my overall opinion.
I know this tends to be boomeranged backed to us as: "well then we should blame (shame?) ourselves for not having found our true calling blah blah ...". I mean yes that would be nice and all, but it's anything but easy, most people don't, I'm not even sure it's even really encouraged. And even rewarding work of any sort, true calling or not, is more the exception than the rule. Much work is a waste of time on the planet. Yes.
Gardenarian
3-19-13, 3:19pm
Yep. DH and I were talking about this last night after the farmers market. A lot of organic farmers out there are working dawn to dusk, really working, and they're barely scraping by. Meanwhile we sit at our little computers and manipulate little pieces of electronic fluff.
Hmm, well I care for children and provide health and education after school programs for my community. So I feel good about what I do most days, being in this career is no guarantee you are going to feel good most days. I do feel I am making a difference a lot of the time when I put a new program in and people like it or it meets a need such as a free exercise class.
The down side, very low income. I actually want to switch for a few years and build up my income and savings before I retire.
I was a pharmacist before I retired. I loved my job and had a great employer and knew that I was providing a valuable service. Retirement is better !Splat!
Has anyone ever read the book, "Stuck" by Anneli Rufus?
There's a section where she talks about the nature of work. And that the very nature of it is that it sucks. Something like "we go to a place where we might not choose to be if we had a choice, come into contact with people we might not even want to see if we didn't have to, and trade our hours for money, doing something we might not really want to be doing."
I used to believe in "rewarding work" but I've come to believe that it is the topic of many self-help books, and only that.
I do have a tendency to be cynical, however!
:|(
When I work for a non-profit org that's making a difference in the community, I love it.
ApatheticNoMore
3-19-13, 4:02pm
There's a section where she talks about the nature of work. And that the very nature of it is that it sucks. Something like "we go to a place where we might not choose to be if we had a choice, come into contact with people we might not even want to see if we didn't have to, and trade our hours for money, doing something we might not really want to be doing."
The nature of it is not to empower workers for sure, which would be the best bet to make the best of it, even if boring stuff still had to get done.
I used to believe in "rewarding work" but I've come to believe that it is the topic of many self-help books, and only that.
Everybody can not have rewarding work. Society is just not set up that way, who would do all the drudgery jobs then? No, everyone can't achieve it. But any given individual *may* find rewarding work. Do you feel lucky?
Gardenarian
3-19-13, 4:07pm
Has anyone ever read the book, "Stuck" by Anneli Rufus?
There's a section where she talks about the nature of work. And that the very nature of it is that it sucks. Something like "we go to a place where we might not choose to be if we had a choice, come into contact with people we might not even want to see if we didn't have to, and trade our hours for money, doing something we might not really want to be doing."
(
I often feel like this about work, but even more so about schooling - "the very nature of it is that it sucks" - which is why I home school dd.
My work does provide a service, and I'm told "You saved my life!" about five times a day - but a lot of hours go by where I'm just trolling (in the fishing sense.)
Funny, the dharma talk I gave on Sunday (a buddhist sermon in effect, mine are 5 minutes) was on Right Livelihood. I talked about how I felt that Buddhism supported that you do the work in front of you without judgement. So there is no 'lower work' and no 'elevated work', you do it all with the same care and attention regardless of the status. So flipping that around it seems you can also not judge work that earns more or seems frivolous because you are earning a living. There are the same opportunities to practice all the good things such as compassion in a high earning or less concrete job. The primary recommendations in Buddhism are not to deal in meat, human beings, weapons and intoxicants.
No.
Not to say I don't really love just "being" and sitting and puttering. I'm not a Type A personality, but I truly value work, and I believe it plays an essential role in our lives. But it's ONE role. I'm not into ONLY working to the exclusion of all the other essential areas of our lives, but all in balance.
This quote by Charles Eisenstein reflects my feelings about work:
The one who bows into service is an artist. To see work as sacred is to bow into service to it, and thus become its instrument.
And this, by Martin Luther King, Jr.
Do your work so well that no one could do it better. Do it so well that all the hosts of Heaven and Earth will have to say, 'Here lived a man who did his job as if God Almighty called him at this particular time in history to do it.'
And Kahlil Gibran:
Work is love made visible.
The Nearings believed in 4 hours of bread labor, and then a few hours engaged in community and social pursuits. And then a few hours of leisure. Again, all in balance.
I do enjoy my job, though not always all the people I work with, but while its not a waste of time, I do wish it did not consume so much of my life, between the job time, the commute, the preparing for, the mulling over problem issues. Three days a week, or 6 hours a day would be ideal.
That said, I did enjoy my temporary retirement, though I would have fully immersed myself in it had I not also been looking for another job.
Very much so. However...I am reminded of a young lady who runs a food cart from dawn til dusk where I work. I know she doesn't make much money or have any chance of advancing in that position. But she has the most amazing attitude about her job. She bends over backwards to please her customers and always has a big smile and conversation for all who visit. On the days when I understand that I can make of my world what I can with my attitude, it's all good. We make ourselves miserable wishing we were doing something else. It is hard though when you'd rather be outside in the beautiful spring weather:(
I believe that 18 hours a week would be more my speed.
And I probably spend *too much* of my away-from-work-time thinking about problems at work.
It is true also that "someone has to be the janitor." And of course there is nothing *wrong* with honest work. I just wish it were less of a Big Deal in our society.
I do enjoy my job, though not always all the people I work with, but while its not a waste of time, I do wish it did not consume so much of my life, between the job time, the commute, the preparing for, the mulling over problem issues. Three days a week, or 6 hours a day would be ideal.
That said, I did enjoy my temporary retirement, though I would have fully immersed myself in it had I not also been looking for another job.
fidgiegirl
3-19-13, 6:20pm
Must read those Nearings' book . . . coming up a lot lately.
Tussiemussies
3-19-13, 6:25pm
I have always loved Kahil Gibran's words -- Work Is Love Made Visible. Thanks for sharing that Catherine...
Yes. Work really interferes with my life. I like my job but I have so many other things I'm interested in, but feel that I'm lacking time and energy to do most of them. I do just work 4 days a week when I can, so I have time for other stuff.
That's a good way of putting it. I have a low-stress job, but somehow I feel drained of energy when I get home. I wonder if there is something wrong with my health, or if most adults feel this way?
Work really interferes with my life. I like my job but I have so many other things I'm interested in, but feel that I'm lacking time and energy to do most of them. .
No. It's different when you're self-employed doing something you believe in. Work and play and creative expression and community service all start to schmush together, and though it isn't always a bed of roses, and though I don't ALWAYS like every person I work with, I don't see it as a waste of time.
There are times when I need to tweak my hours so that I can have time for all my other pursuits AND make enough to live on...that's not always easy.
I've always honored my task, even when it wasn't necessarily the task I'd prefer to be doing. If I worked at a job, I did it well and mindfully, and didn't make my employer pay for my unhappiness. I just kept looking for a better situation that suited me. Eventually I found it.
puglogic, what sort of work do you do?
I just visited your blog--all this time I thought you were a GUY! Something about the "pug"? Although why would a pug be more likely to be male than female?
Pugs always seem male to me too ! LOL Probably because they're so pugnacious, with their little squishy faces and their tough little bodies. Mine is a boy but some day I'd like to have a little girl.....
I work in all things around web sites: consulting, designing, programming, social media, etc. I choose to work for nonprofits, social entrepreneurs, social causes, and teeny-tiny businesses, and most of the time that pays the bills, or comes close. I also work at the local library, do some training with people who want to learn about the Web, and other small side businesses that help out. I used to do it for big companies, but I started doing it for myself about 15 years ago, basically with one client and a prayer.
For most of my life I worked in big faceless organizations and you couldn't have convinced me that work was ANYTHING but a waste of time. When you're just a number, not appreciated, not seen, and you don't feel like you're making any kind of a difference, that's just soul-sucking. I kept looking and looking until I found this little niche where I felt like I mattered. So maybe that's why I feel a little different about it all. My personality type (Myers Briggs INFP) really needs to feel like they matter. And being forced to be out in public for hours at a time exhausts me too.....I remember I used to go home and fall asleep at 8pm....
Thank you for answering my question.
Your story is very hopeful!
Work and other activities are opportunities to let your unique qualities shine. Work pays better though.
ApatheticNoMore
3-19-13, 7:36pm
On the other hand other activities are actually where you get to exercise your unique qualities, pay seems really lousy compensation in return, but you've got to have it, I guess ... so everyone says.
Really though I only manage to deal with it at all by just kind of blacking it out and accepting it as duty, as the system, as that which must be, as inevitability, as whatever: thinking it's love manifest in the world, or letting my unique qualities shine when of course it is NO SUCH THING, is just a recipe for me not even being able to function and even go to work in the morning at all.
I do enjoy my job, though not always all the people I work with, but while its not a waste of time, I do wish it did not consume so much of my life, between the job time, the commute, the preparing for, the mulling over problem issues. Three days a week, or 6 hours a day would be ideal.
This is where I'm at too. I remember it took a long time to get into the groove of getting dressed for the office every day, and just doing the M-F, 9 to 5 routine. Seems like it was months/years before that all became a habit. It's not that I didn't have a work ethic, it's just the dailiness of it that was slow coming into my consciousness.
Reminds me of a true story I read in a woman's magazine years ago. A mother's young son had been prepped and ready for his first day of kindergarten, and was happy to go. When he got home and his mom asked how it went, he said just fine. The next morning she woke him for school and he was very surprised and said, "Do you mean I have to go back?"
iris lilies
3-19-13, 10:50pm
I'm having a fine time at work, a spate of extreme fun that started 6 weeks ago and just keeps on going. This is stuff I should have been doing a dozen years ago.
So no, at the moment, work is not a waste of my time, it's really really fun and I anticipate that it will stay that way for a couple of years. But I deserve it since I had to ride out a lot of crap including The Year from H8LL of 2011.
SteveinMN
3-19-13, 11:07pm
I would classify my old job as a waste of time. Not totally -- when I was actually doing what I was hired to do, I loved it. But an emphasis on bureaucracy rather than doing the job to the best of one's ability just took up way too much of the week. Too many turf battles, too many processes that could have used rethinking but we were all too busy to take a step back and rethink, too many decisions based on fear and prestige rather than facts and common sense. Unfortunately, that's not a problem specific to the company at which I worked; pretty much anyplace short of Google or Apple and a very select few other large companies has the same issues.
No, my work does a lot of good.
First, I provide an environment for like-minded people to run similar businesses, as well as have contractors who are doing work that they love in a comfortable environment.
Second, I provide a service that benefits many people. We are seeing about 200 people a week right now in the yoga/pilates alone -- not to mention other people who come to the other practitioners in the business. Since we take a therapeutic approach, people really feel the benefits quickly, and that's pretty awesome.
Third, I'm able to support and coach other business people in my field. I have friends in NZ and AUstralia who also run similar businesses and we spend a lot of time helping each other out. Some of them are same page as me, others are just starting out and need more 'guidance.'
Finally, I'm in the process of doing teacher training in two other towns to help those studios/businesses cultivate new resources as their business grows (ie, they need more teachers just like I do at my business). This is great because I not only get to help my friends fill their requirements, but I'm also helping people realize their own goals in terms of becoming good teachers of yoga. I also help teach them about business basics (basics of accounting for their business, how to run their cash flow sheets/understanding, etc).
For me, this is very exciting work all around, and I really enjoy and value it. So, it's definitely not a waste of time. :)
Oh yes, definitely. Although my job in itself is NOT a waste of time (helping people educate themselves and find information!) it can get repetitive and mundane and you have to deal with a lot of difficult people. These are the parts I dislike and they become amplified and frustrate me more than they should when I know I have to deal with it every single day. I don't think my colleagues and I should need to spend the majority of our week in this job just to earn a buck to pay the bills - the bills for a home we're not in most of the week because we're at WORK! It really makes no sense. I like my job but I'd like it more if I weren't here as much as I am.
I'm hoping to reduce the hours I work (from 28 to 14) so I can attempt to establish myself as a freelance translator as well. I thrive on variety and think I'd feel less like I was in a rut if I could do both of the things I love.
I'm all in favour for a part-time model of work, as Catherine mentioned. I believe people would be more content if they worked a few hours a day for their necessities and dedicated the rest of their time to leisure, family, friends, community... how can we create an economy where this is feasible for everyone?! Please send your suggestions to me...
Yes. Work really interferes with my life. I like my job but I have so many other things I'm interested in, but feel that I'm lacking time and energy to do most of them. I do just work 4 days a week when I can, so I have time for other stuff.
My sentiments exactly.
Some of you may be interested in this website: http://whywork.org/ . It's not updated often, some links are broken and its design is not going to win any awards, but there's some good reading in there :)
I had jobs (coast guard and then an environmental compliance officer) that I felt were highly useful and important to society so didn't feel unproductive when I was working. However, I can see how I would feel that way if I was doing something I didn't feel was valued or needed by other's. In that case I think I'd rather be free to pursue something more meaningful even if it paid less, or didn't pay at all (assuming I could do that). And yes, a good day spent doing nothing is always better than a bad day spent working at a job you find meaningless and tiresome :-)!
I believe people would be more content if they worked a few hours a day for their necessities and dedicated the rest of their time to leisure, family, friends, community... how can we create an economy where this is feasible for everyone? This too would be my dream...
Nope, I love my work so it is always fun :)
In my previous life, I could not understand why and what I kept doing....the best way to describe it is that I was paid a lot of money to babysit and nag the VIP/Directors.
Puglogic....I am also an INFP....not many of us around in the world :)
ApatheticNoMore
3-20-13, 2:36pm
I am also an INFP....not many of us around in the world
INTP ... women, maybe that's "woman" and I'm the only one in the entire world :|(
AmeliaJane
3-20-13, 2:57pm
Although I certainly have tasks and days that don't feel all that worthwhile, for the most part I enjoy my work and feel it is a contribution to making the world a better place. My work is not essential to human functioning (like medicine, for instance) so I feel lucky to live in a world where I get to be paid for this. I wonder to what extent parents' attitude toward work shapes our thinking. I have parents who both loved their jobs and felt they were important to the world even though they were pretty ordinary and not all that well-paying in the grand scheme of things (nursing and agriculture). So as my siblings and I grew up, it seemed natural to search out careers where we could feel the same. One sibling gets paid very well for his efforts, one fairly well, and I get paid adequately, but I have plenty. I mention this only because one relative pointed out once that he was sort of surprised by this when he married in...his family regarded work as the thing you do to get paid and support your family, so it had never occurred to him to value and feel passionate about work in itself.
Agree with all that's been said above. Frugalone also mentioned the fact that it's hard to leave work mentally after your eight hour or half-time stint. That's it EXACTLY. A soul-sucking job haunts your life even outside of work. (One reason that my weekends are joyless these days...I'm dreading going back to work on Monday!)
So yes, I would like to leave my current job because it's kicking the crap out of my joie de vivre. But I'd still be working, - doing art and my other projects - and doing it with love and enthusiasm. But I can't do that without some money coming in.
For me, the toll work takes is chiefly emotional and psychological. It can be great to work on a project with people you like for a company that treats you fairly, and be doing it with a boss who values your work and supports you when issues arise (because they ALWAYS do). I've had this situation maybe twice in my working life, and they were short-term arrangements (my managers were downsized, after which my own life became untenable and I had to leave too).
Even when my job isn't demeaning, even when I'm not being humiliated on a daily basis, or having to deal with a psycho boss and slacker co-workers, the thing is - I'm still tied. And when the situation is less than optimum, it's really awful - because I'm beholden to people I don't respect, in a system that is wasting my time. It's tough.
I fantasize about how to get out from under work all the time, and I've read about it a lot - many of the books recommended in this thread. I follow a guy whose name is Ran Prieur, who builds what he lives in and grows what he eats. This guy has not necessarily dropped out, though. He still works. He works like a friggin' dog! I don't have the skills to do what he does, and as an over 45-er, I don't have the stamina either!
In answer to your question - for me, yes, work is a waste of my time. But I get great medical benes.
btw - I like AmeliaJane's gratitude around getting paid for a job that isn't essential to human functioning. In the past most jobs were survival-related, I guess. As we become more prosperous and specialized and richer as a society, there's time for leisure and entertainment and aesthetic stuff. I try to remind myself of this as I'm getting a freelance art gig off the ground. I don't have a right to be paid for my art - it's not food after all! So anything that comes in is a gift. ;)
http://www.ranprieur.com/
I play in this community a lot: http://screwworkletsplay.com
It's funny how many people are discovering that they actually thrive on multiple streams of enjoyable income, rather than one big one they are ambivalent about. I get bored easily too, so it helps me to have several outlets. And I rarely get tired any more at the end of the day, probably from the stimulation all day.
I know an INTP woman, ANM, and she's as awesome as you. Good brains put to good use.
Yes! Exactly!
The novelty has worn off now, and I'm thinking, "Oh gosh, I have to go back in there tomorrow again?!"
This is where I'm at too. I remember it took a long time to get into the groove of getting dressed for the office every day, and just doing the M-F, 9 to 5 routine. Seems like it was months/years before that all became a habit. It's not that I didn't have a work ethic, it's just the dailiness of it that was slow coming into my consciousness.
Reminds me of a true story I read in a woman's magazine years ago. A mother's young son had been prepped and ready for his first day of kindergarten, and was happy to go. When he got home and his mom asked how it went, he said just fine. The next morning she woke him for school and he was very surprised and said, "Do you mean I have to go back?"
awakenedsoul
3-20-13, 8:05pm
When I was working as a dancer, I loved my work. I was thrilled to be around such talented performers, choreographers, and directors. It was a dream come true. There were some shows that were trying...like the one in Berlin. I had a high paying position in management, but I was miserable. So, I left and came home. I've taken side jobs to pay the bills. Usually those were teaching dance, running the desk at an aerobics studio, or teaching yoga. As I got older, I got frustrated with the generational stuff: tattoos, piercings, cell phones, and texting during yoga class. I like old fashioned discipline and focus. I liked working as a cashier selling produce at a farm. It didn't pay much, but I really liked the customers. They appreciated my work ethic and we would chat about what they were cooking with the veggies. There's a lot to be said for meaningful work. I did not do well in corporate environments. Had trouble with beaurocratic BS when I worked for the city, too. When I was younger, none of that stuff bothered me. Now that I work at home, I enjoy being my own boss and having a pleasant, beautiful environment.
jennipurrr
3-20-13, 9:03pm
I enjoy my job more often than not. Since I haven't been it too long so I am still learning a lot. When I am truly getting to do my work and not all the related personnel junk I really love it. I get started working on a project and think a half hour is gone by then I realize two hours have gone by. I like to think the work I do leads to greater good (higher education) years ago when I worked at a bank I didn't even have that on the worst day to rationalize.
In my previous job I had gotten where I was on autopilot and it was horribly boring every day. I met a couple of people in my new position at a conference who are at the point of boredom/dread/autopilot...I lasted at the old job seven years before getting to that point so I am hoping I will last at least that long before getting to that point now.
In an ideal world though I would love to work about 30 hours a week!
HumboldtGurl
3-22-13, 1:26am
No. It's different when you're self-employed doing something you believe in. Work and play and creative expression and community service all start to schmush together, and though it isn't always a bed of roses, and though I don't ALWAYS like every person I work with, I don't see it as a waste of time.
There are times when I need to tweak my hours so that I can have time for all my other pursuits AND make enough to live on...that's not always easy.
Bingo! You nailed what I wanted to say. I feel exactly the same way about the "work" that DH and I do four our Tripawds canine amputee community as well as my writing, jewelry making and other endeavors that bring in money. To a lot of people it looks like we work like dogs (up to 12, 13 hours a day sometimes) but to us, we're living our purpose for being on this planet which makes it not feel so much like work at all. It's just a part of who we are and we like it that way.
I never felt this way when I had a J.O.B. Every job I ever had made me feel like i wanted to be somewhere else. Even now, when DH and work as helpers at a dude ranch every summer, while we love the people and the location, I can't help but feeling like I'm robbing myself of other pursuits more important to my heart. For just a few months out of the year I tolerate it, so it's worthwhile though. If I had to do it full-time, all year...well, I just wouldn't.
The place of work in my life is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Even though I'm getting nearer to FI, I'm realizing that I don't really want to retire--or rather, I'm not at all sure what I'd do with my days if I didn't work. So long as I remain in this state of uncertainty, I figure I might as well say put and keep those steady paychecks and bennies coming in.
For the past dozen years or so I've been working as a writer/editor in the corporate world, and on the whole I'd have to say that I have not enjoyed it. I like the working with words part, but most of what I write/edit is pretty boring. It's not that what I do isn't useful--to someone, somewhere, whom I've never met. That part of it is pretty alienating. And I've never cared for life on the cube farm. The saving grace has been that for the most part I like the people I work with, and the company I work for treats its employees reasonably well.
Obviously, if I had a burning ambition to do something in particular, that would make matters simpler. But I don't. In any event, I've decided that the earliest I will leave my present job will be the end of 2014, so I have some time to think things over.
AmeliaJane
3-27-13, 11:18pm
Several years ago I read a newspaper article where an expert said there are three things in general people need to be satisfied with their jobs--to do work that makes use of their special talents and skills, to feel that they're making a contribution, and to be recognized for their contribution. (I think...this was some years ago.)
I have looked around for the article to get the details and never been able to find it again, but at the time it really struck me.
where an expert said
Daniel Pink?
AmeliaJane
3-28-13, 7:46am
I don't think so, although his book on the subject seems to have a similar viewpoint. Interesting reference, though, thanks!
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