View Full Version : Caring for your parents (or your kids caring for you) in old age?
A thread in the financial forums got me wondering how many people here plan to provide physical care giving to their elderly parents, or financial assistance to them to pay for either home care giving services or a nursing home or assisted living place, if needed or not? In other words, will you do it even if they can afford to hire other's or pay for a nursing home?
And do you expect your children, if you have them, to care for you physically themselves when you are older, or help finance your long term care either at home or in a nursing home or assisted living place if needed?
For those without kids, do you think you are more apt to make long term lifestyle decisions early to insure your independance longer then those with kids? I often hear friends (and parents of friends as well as my own Dad and step-mom) say that they won't make any plans now and that the "kids will take care of them" in some way.
We already provide monthly financial help to mother-in-law to somewhat ease her burden. We will continue to increase this for rental increases and some in home care but hope that the needed care is far in the future. She is working on exercise and making sure her eating habits are good. In fact, she is doing much better now than in the past. Her health is good.
At some point, if she needs significant care, I know her son will not be the one providing it and we have discussed for years that I will not be a nurse, period!! I did not want there to be any misunderstandings. We will however, ensure any transition is well thought out, appropriate, and that we are involved with her on a constant basis.
We are enjoying having her so close. Today, her son took her shopping since I was out of town. We trade off spending time with her and doing things. We took her to the St. Patrick's Day parade and the next excursion will be the art museum.
We have no kids so we had to discuss what our plans are. We are self insured for long term care due to savings and investments.
treehugger
3-21-13, 8:58pm
Oh, man, this is a loaded topic. Between the two of us, DH and I have 7 parents, all with varied levels of preparedness (and funds) for their own care. Since we also have a lot of siblings, we have "delegated" our parents out already to whom we think would be best in each case. Many of our sibs have kids and we don't. And we know the grandparents will want to be close to the grandkids, right?
OK, in seriousness, my family models for this are my maternal grandparents who very carefully planned for everything, right up until the end; my paternal grandparents died before this could be an issue. I very much hope and plan to have this all planned out properly so that I am never a burden to anyone. I certainly learned a lot from seeing how my Omi and Opa met this challenge head on, and succeeded.
Kara
goldensmom
3-21-13, 9:11pm
I took care of my mother for 10 years after she had a stroke. She was well off financially and could have paid me or someone else to care for her but my husband and I cared for her without any financial remuneration because she was mom. I've not even thought about my own old age care plan.
iris lilies
3-21-13, 10:18pm
Frankly, I got lucky: My father died suddenly (no huge medical bills) leaving all of the money to my mother.
In her later years my mother was in a nursing home with Alzheimer's Disease for um, can't remember exactly, somewhere in the range of 5 - 7 years. She had nursing home insurance that, when combined with her income, paid most of it with only some of her assets going to nursing home costs, maybe that was around $30,000 - $40,000 over the years.
Then the insurance ran out and she paid nursing home costs from her assets and income. If she had lived for one more year she would have Died Broke. In a way that would have been cool, I would have liked that.
But as it happened she died with a nice little net worth and my brother and I split it. Like I said, we were lucky.
Treehugger, I understand your concern. We have left only DH's dad and he's got craploads of money (well, tied up in trust, but he could get at it.) It's actually my own potential ill health that worries me more than DH's dad. I have a sort of plan to get divorced if Alzheimer's raises it head with me (it's rife within my family.) DH can keep a lot of the assets that way, otherwise the Medicaid requirements for spend down are punishing. I think it is entirely fair that he keep half of our household assets but that's not how the gooberment in its infinite wisdom has designed it.
awakenedsoul
3-22-13, 1:02pm
My parents are self insured. They could afford to have someone in the home if they need it. When my mom broke her pelvis, they had a nurse come over to give her a bath, wash her hair, etc. My dad did most of the other work. They put in a wheelchair ramp and made the downstairs bathroom a handicapped one. My dad has picked out a place he wants to live if he needs assisted living.
I will probably continue to live very frugally into my old age and also self insure. I have some land that I will inherit that's in a trust. (Unless my parents need that money in their old age.) A friend of my father's went into a nursing home and his insurance ran out, too. People are living a lot longer these days. I see people my age, (late forties,) putting their parents in assisted care in their 60's and then spending their money. It's very disturbing to me. I'm actually going to be talking to an attorney about this next week.
Damn gooberment, insisting that people who take advantage of financial breaks in a civil union also have to cover some of the disadvantages....
Damn gooberment, insisting that people who take advantage of financial breaks in a civil union also have to cover some of the disadvantages....
haha I knew when I posted someone would call me out on that, I am not oblivious to seeming to be hypocritical. I see this more as life planning. I'll bet you take advantage of the tax code to the full, as do I. And planning for possible dependance on goobment is part of that, unlikely though that will be since frankly, we've got the cash that investment gurus say one needs to "self insure." Let's be clear that I plan on paying for me from an equal share of our joint assets.
I've seen a fair number of people dance around the rules with grannie's money, defying spend-down requirements and risking no support at all. That's what happens--the gooberment threatens to not support granny at all if the kids spend all of her assets on cars and boats. And that is perfectly reasonable, as the steward of my tax dollars, wish they'd be more reasonable in other ways.
I have talked with my cousin about our parents and caregiving. We each have discussed switching parents when the time comes. Seriously. While we do want to help out our parents as much as possible, we are realistic in that we know it will be difficult for us to provide the help for our own mothers.
Whereas if we switch parents we can be more objective and provide more respectful assistance instead of getting pissed when they try to lay a guilt trip or other uncalled for nastiness on one of us.
Not a perfect solution but it has been discussed as a possible option if care is needed.
my sister and i have gotten insurance for our parents (long term care insurance), and i plan on adding it to Dh's and my plan once we get to the right plan that we want for medical/dental/etc here. It's affordable, but still out of budget. :)
goldensmom
3-23-13, 7:24am
my sister and i have gotten insurance for our parents (long term care insurance), and i plan on adding it to Dh's and my plan once we get to the right plan that we want for medical/dental/etc here. It's affordable, but still out of budget. :)
That jogged my memory. Previously I said I had not thought about my own old age plan but I do have LTC insurance for myself. I forget because I got it more than 10 years ago (younger age/lower premium) and pay the premium yearly. I am getting old.
iris lilies
3-23-13, 10:08am
I have talked with my cousin about our parents and caregiving. We each have discussed switching parents when the time comes. Seriously. While we do want to help out our parents as much as possible, we are realistic in that we know it will be difficult for us to provide the help for our own mothers.
Whereas if we switch parents we can be more objective and provide more respectful assistance instead of getting pissed when they try to lay a guilt trip or other uncalled for nastiness on one of us.
Not a perfect solution but it has been discussed as a possible option if care is needed.
That is brilliant! really, it is. Still family taking care of mom, but one step removed from the crazy mom-daughter dynamic.
It's actually my own potential ill health that worries me more than DH's dad. I have a sort of plan to get divorced if Alzheimer's raises it head with me (it's rife within my family.) DH can keep a lot of the assets that way, otherwise the Medicaid requirements for spend down are punishing. I think it is entirely fair that he keep half of our household assets but that's not how the gooberment in its infinite wisdom has designed it.
In Calif (and maybe your state too) they have what is called a spousal impoverment rule. Meaning that if one spouse (not sure about domestic partners) has to go into a nursing home, the other spouse will be able to retain a lot of their assets so as not to bankrupt them. I believe that the well spouse can retain all their own income streams for themself, the family home, tand a certain amount of the shared financial assets (around $150K of cash or investments). The spouse in the nursing home has to use their income (retirement income too) and any seperate assets to pay for their nuring care before Medicaid will kick in and cover it for free. So you may not have to get divorced to remain solvent if you or DH goes into a nursing home. You can check it out online at your states medicaid website.
iris lilies
3-23-13, 1:24pm
In Calif (and maybe your state too) they have what is called a spousal impoverment rule. Meaning that if one spouse (not sure about domestic partners) has to go into a nursing home, the other spouse will be able to retain a lot of their assets so as not to bankrupt them. I believe that the well spouse can retain all their own income streams for themself, the family home, tand a certain amount of the shared financial assets (around $150K of cash or investments). The spouse in the nursing home has to use their income (retirement income too) and any seperate assets to pay for their nuring care before Medicaid will kick in and cover it for free. So you may not have to get divorced to remain solvent if you or DH goes into a nursing home. You can check it out online at your states medicaid website.
Oh sure, the state laws I've reviewed are similar, but I don't consider retention of $150,000 reasonable when DH's half of our estate is significantly more. Significantly. And my income stream will be the bigger of our two because I have the bigger income, we moved for my jobs, he's sacrificed his career to mine, etc. His financial security is in what he's saved, 'cause he's a saver.
But in the end DH will be fine because he can live on practically nothing, he is very self-sufficient. And he can always earn a bit of money fixing stuff for his girlfriends who will by then be little old ladies.
As a childless person myself I plan to set up things to be as independent as possible in my old age. That means being in a paid for home (condo? Apt? co-op?) that is easy care and inexpensive, one story, walking distance (or bus) to everything in case I can't drive, and hiring someone to help with things if needed. Don't like assisted living places so wouldn't go that route myself unless I have too. I'm more concerned with the fall and break my leg or hip kind of thing - not ill but need daily help. Will have to make sure I have enough moolah to pay for a caregiver. After seeing my very healthy and fit step-mom break her leg and become bedridden for months because of it (and no insurance except medical insurance coverage) I realized that no matter how healthy I am, I may be just one slip and fall in the shower from becoming dependent. Otherwise, if I didn't have the money to hire someone daily (or live in which in my step-mom's case she needed - had my Dad for that though) then the hospital may not release me and may force me to go to a nursing home until I could care for myself. That could cost thousands a month and, if I didn't have it, they would than have to put a lien on my house and take that after I died - which could be decades later as I imagine this could happen even at an early age.
As for my own parents - Both had very fast deaths without needing too much long term care - my Dad none at all. In my Mom's case I would do anything and pay as much as I could to help her out as she made hugh sacrifices for us kids. And I did act as her caregiver (she moved in with me) for awhile before she passed away even though she really went out of her way to set up her life and finances so she could be as independent as possible all her life.
My Dad on the other hand did the exact opposite. Spent all his money (earning about 10 times what my Mom did in his lifetime) on friviolous things, always in debt, etc... Lived far out in the country in a place that required a lot of work, long drives, got a couple more pets (always had lots) even when he knew he was very ill. He always had the expectation that my sister and I would not only physically care for him and his 2nd wife, but would financially pay for whatever they needed even though he had walked out on the family when we were young and left us homeless and desitute so he could marry the 2 nd wife. So no, I wouldn't take care of him -and especially wouldn't take care of the evil step-mom (who had 3 adult kids of her own) - physically or financially even though I would make sure he was taken care of (using his own assets) as we never had a relationship. Although I was there for him and did help him a lot towards the end of his life (which happened very fast from an aynurism while he was building a fence) but probably wouldn't have done much caretaking for him like I did for my Mom even though he expected it.
i always find it weird when the parent who effectively "abandoned' the family expects that family to take them in in old age. I have a friend going through it but it's even weirder.
you know how people have been posting "want to find my birth parents" images on facebook and stuff? well, this person put out the "i want to find my children." my friend is adopted, and after going through the information that he did have, he went ahead and contacted her. Not really for any particular need on his part, but because it would be nice.
His own (adopted) mother passed some years ago, his brother -- who was also adopted -- is a drug addict and likely in jail; they have no contact. So, he was probably feeling particularly sentimental that day.
Anyway, he went ahead and contacted her and after a few emails just describing that life turned out fine and all was well, he asks that question about why he was put up for adoption. Mostly, it was because -- at the time -- she had too many children and couldn't care for them, and she was also struggling with some sort of abuse/addiction problem (that wasn't quite clear), but now that she'd found Jesus she just wanted to find out about 'her babies.'
She started talking about meeting, coming for a visit (she's in Tx, he's in New England), and he said that would be fine and they tried to organize it. Then she couldn't pay for her own plane ticket, and it started to go down hill from there.
She'd kept and raised 3 children, she'd put up for adoption 4 more (of which he was the youngest), and as far as she knew, all of them were alive.
And yet, she thought it was wholly appropriate to start asking for money to cover her plane ticket to visit him, then her medical bills, then her rent/power/food/etc. I just thought it was madness. I mean, you don't meet your child that you put up for adoption and just start asking for cash.
And she even came on with the whole "but I'm your mother! you should take care of your mother in her old age!' And he said "my mother died of breast cancer X years ago. I did take care of her through that process. I think it's time to sever this relationship for the second time." And he hasn't had contact with her since.
I really cannot believe the audacity.
iris lily
3-24-13, 11:59am
i always find it weird when the parent who effectively "abandoned' the family expects that family to take them in in old age. I have a friend going through it but it's even weirder.
you know how people have been posting "want to find my birth parents" images on facebook and stuff? well, this person put out the "i want to find my children." my friend is adopted, and after going through the information that he did have, he went ahead and contacted her. Not really for any particular need on his part, but because it would be nice.
His own (adopted) mother passed some years ago, his brother -- who was also adopted -- is a drug addict and likely in jail; they have no contact. So, he was probably feeling particularly sentimental that day.
Anyway, he went ahead and contacted her and after a few emails just describing that life turned out fine and all was well, he asks that question about why he was put up for adoption. Mostly, it was because -- at the time -- she had too many children and couldn't care for them, and she was also struggling with some sort of abuse/addiction problem (that wasn't quite clear), but now that she'd found Jesus she just wanted to find out about 'her babies.'
She started talking about meeting, coming for a visit (she's in Tx, he's in New England), and he said that would be fine and they tried to organize it. Then she couldn't pay for her own plane ticket, and it started to go down hill from there.
She'd kept and raised 3 children, she'd put up for adoption 4 more (of which he was the youngest), and as far as she knew, all of them were alive.
And yet, she thought it was wholly appropriate to start asking for money to cover her plane ticket to visit him, then her medical bills, then her rent/power/food/etc. I just thought it was madness. I mean, you don't meet your child that you put up for adoption and just start asking for cash.
And she even came on with the whole "but I'm your mother! you should take care of your mother in her old age!' And he said "my mother died of breast cancer X years ago. I did take care of her through that process. I think it's time to sever this relationship for the second time." And he hasn't had contact with her since.
I really cannot believe the audacity.
Some people are just weak, they are takers. They reproduce, and that's too bad.
It's a good thing your friend was born decades ago. In this day and age Mommy Dearest probably would have kept all 7 of the kids and social services and us taxpayers would have propped up her baby making facility with programs so that the family could be together. She could have wreaked havoc on their psyches for years rather than the short period that your friend experienced her wackiness. So there IS a silver lining here and I do hope his adoptive mom was a good one.
awakenedsoul
3-24-13, 1:22pm
That's sad for the guy on Facebook. I've met a couple of women who grew up in foster care, and they seem to have the same type of thinking. "Someone else will pay..." One has $20,000. in cc debt. I asked her if she's going to pay it back. She said that it's in collections and that they won't come after her. She babysits for her grandchildren and her son pays her. She told me that she'll probably get a job and save her money instead of paying off her debts.
Another woman I know who grew up in group homes just got pregnant. She's in her early twenties. She plans to marry the father, who is Mormon. She's dropping out of school and they will live with his parents for the first two years. She doesn't plan to work. She's excited. It just seems like some people look for and find a free ride...
jennipurrr
3-24-13, 11:07pm
DH and I don't have kids at this time and we are pretty young, so we have not really thought about the long term plans in that department yet. However, being planners I am sure we will over think and make sure us and our life choices are not burdens on anyone. We have a simple will set up at this time should be both die of who gets our pets (5!) and the compensation for that. I'm pretty neurotic...I am not sure many people out there set up kitty/doggie godparents.
We have had the conversation about DHs mom. She is definitely in the realm of parents who were not the best caregivers and yet expect to be cared for in old age. She has "joked" that if DH didn't take her into his home in her old age she would come back as a ghost and haunt him...seriously?! Fortunately, about the time I arrived in DHs life she began a relationship with a man who is well off financially. He has provided a home for her for the past 10 years and also put her on his insurance and paid the additional expenses for chemo treatments she had last year. The cold truth though is that MILs life choices and condition will likely ensure that she does not need long term assisted living/nursing home type of care. DH has stated for a long time (and I completely support) that we will not financially burden ourselves with MILs care.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.