View Full Version : Do you mention trying to pay off your mortgage/debt/etc. to friends
We're getting close. We have $18,000 to go on the mortgage. I find I always want to mention it to people. I feel like it's an accomplishment, particularly on one income for so long, and now we're still only just over $50,000 a year.
But I wonder about the etiquette of talking about debt. I still feel like I'm basically a poor poet type, and everyone is doing better than me, and unconsciously, I think I feel driven to demonstrate that I'm doing OK, and I fit in to my peer group, and so on.
"Yeah," I like to say, "my shoes may be on the verge of falling apart, but when I get the mortgage cleared off the decks next year, I'm going to buy a new pair."
I have to remind myself that most people are probably "leveraged" to the hilt for their new cars, new clothes, and iPads. I've made a choice to dress like a hobo so I can be debt free. I don't need to be waggling my raggedy ass shoes in the face of people who are deep in debt.
Do other people feel that getting out of debt should be a quiet, personal thing? It's odd, for some reason, not knowing how people are really doing. Am I really that poor? Are other people really that well off?
With our mortgage almost paid, and our retirement account. Our "official" net worth is somewhere just offer $250,000. I still look at that, and it doesn't mean anything to me. I look at it and think it's something of a joke as I move $5 from the entertainment part of the budget to cover the afternoon I spent going out to eat soup with my eleven-year-old son.
Still, I'm very excited as I close in on paying off the mortgage. I'm more of a Your Money or Your Life person than I am a Dave Ramsey person, but I almost feel compelled to call in and give a debt free scream.
How much of your frugality, working your way out of debt, do you talk about with your friends and coworkers?
Miss Cellane
4-4-13, 5:33pm
I think it's a know your audience sort of thing.
Friends of mine paid off their mortgage and had an old-fashioned "mortgage burning" party to celebrate. But the outcome was that several friends and family members then assumed they had tons of money--after all, they weren't paying the mortgage any more, were they? And my friends were hit up for loans, or outright gifts of money by several people. True, they had more discretionary income, but they were putting that into the kids' college funds and their own retirement. They did not want to give the money away.
So be careful who you tell. I'd tell close family and one or two friends who I know would be able to not spread the word, myself. But I wouldn't broadcast the news to the world.
Some things are better left unsaid and the payment of the mortgage is one of them. Share with us but keep it to yourself otherwise.
Most people are comfortable with hearing about saving a few dollars or not spending but paying off a large debt almost invariably makes the other party feel like a failure for not doing the same so they rationalize by inventing excuses why you succeeded while they did not - lots of money or inheritance or something similar.
I am curious why you need to tell others about this accomplishment? Do you need to prove that you are a success that badly? Do you believe that others will see this as a success or simply a different choice from many options in life? Not being critical but trying to help you work through this.
DH saw paying off the mortgage as a relief and not much more. We bought only the house that we could pay for so paying off the mortgage was not so much a success unto itself but the simple result of wise decisions made much earlier and being careful financially along the way. We chose not to have expensive trips or a cottage or a boat as did many of our peers. They enjoyed their choices and we did ours
I like to think I'd want to use good intuition about who to tell that and who doesn't really need to know. Kinda like who I'd tell if I was proud of a hard-won success and just wanted to tell somebody --- one camp, yes, the other, no (hint: the first camp is composed of my real, deep friends; the latter, more like acquaintances or family-I'm-on-good-terms-with) I don't see a thing wrong with feeling you want to talk about this.
But basically, pcooley, if I were as close to being mortgage free as you are, I'd have it printed on a *#&%^# T-shirt. Congrats on all your hard work to get this far. I'm one of those people who grew up being scolded "not to toot my own horn," never allowed to express joy and pride in things I worked darned hard at, and I've come to think of that as some puritan form of child abuse. Toot your horn. Toot it loud. Buy a tuba (when your mortgage is paid off, of course) and toot that. There is nothing wrong with sharing an accomplishment, in my book, especially if you do it in a spirit of sharing, for example teaching others about how you did it, what you'd do differently, etc.
Now if I could only catch up.....
As for being hit up by family members for gifts/loans: "No" is a complete sentence :D
Only a couple of friends know our mortgage is paid off, and one or two of my siblings have it figured out. It seemed kinda tacky to advertise it, though I desperately wanted to. I took a lot of grief for not being like everyone else, and buying a new car every 2 years or buying a bigger house when I could afford to. I've mostly made peace with it. I love the Quaker saying "let your life speak. That's much more effective than bragging anyways. LOL
Toot your horn. Toot it loud. Buy a tuba (when your mortgage is paid off, of course) and toot that. There is nothing wrong with sharing an accomplishment, in my book, especially if you do it in a spirit of sharing, for example teaching others about how you did it, what you'd do differently, etc.
I like this a lot. I agree that it is an accomplishment, and we should want to share our accomplishments with those who love and support us. Just like we want to be able to congratulate and cheer for our favorite people. So yes, choose your audience wisely and share where it makes sense.
That said, money is an especially sensitive topic, so even those who love you may act strangely when presented with this news. And they are allowed to. Fair warning.
Kara
We definitely shared the goal and accomplishment within our circle of friends/family. We didn't stop strangers on the street or anything, but people talk about what they're doing, goals, accomplishments, etc. and in that context, it never felt wrong to discuss it.
awakenedsoul
4-4-13, 9:14pm
Now that my financial situation is better, I think it's put kind of a strain on the friendships I had with people who were struggling, financially. I own my home outright, too. I don't have a husband or kids, so it's easier for me to live on less. I'm now "financially independent," (unless something changes.) People see me riding my bicycle, running the dogs, growing food, and hanging out the laundry. I live in a working class neighborhood, I studied the book "The Millionaire Next Door." I am a better dresser now, though. Since I've started knitting, I wear quality hand knit sweaters, summer tops, and socks! Congratulaions on your financial success!
We've only ever covered topics like this when others make it a topic. When I left work last year, people asking how we were going to do it provided the perfect introduction to talk a bit about making the lifestyle choices and purchasing decisions that made it possible. Similarly, if a relative or friend joked about my "old" (10-year-old) car, I would respond by telling them that the 10-year-old car meant no car loan and that we were putting the money to better uses (like paying off the mortgage early).
Starting the conversation about living simply and/or debt-minimal or debt-free really is like religious evangelizing. And I'm guessing many people will react to illustrations of their financial vices the same way they react to illustrations of their personal vices.
We talk about No Mortgage to others who have No Mortgage. If you don't have people in your social group with No Mortgage, go out and find some! They aren't easy to find though :)
Santa Fe is an expensive town so I would think most people have a mortgage except for the rich and famous and probably even THEY have one since it's conventional wisdom to have one and their business managers probably urge them to have one it's a tax break yadda yadda.
We certainly talk about it to family because they are all, on both sides, frugal and either have No Mortgage themselves or are working toward getting rid of it. In my neighborhood of gentrified urban Victorian houses there are plenty of early pioneers who have no mortgage because houses only cost $5,000! Of course, it cost $175,000 to get them habitable and reasonably finished but that's another story.
So most of our friends know that we have No Mortgage because our friends are in this neighborhood and most people figure that the old timers don't have a mortgage and the new people do. Besides, we are of an age to have No Mortgage, but we didn't have one when we were 35, either. But we don't really TALK ABOUT it except to other frugals who have the same goal.
I talked about it here and on another personal finance board but not at all in real life. I don't want people knowing how well off we are financially. When we paid off the mortgage while I felt really happy about it, it was as much just a big relief. We have an emergency fund and a good amount in retirement accounts. But you would never know it from the cars we drive--Ford Ranger and Honda Odyssey, clothes we wear, or general life style.
Over my entire career, we have worked to save and at the same time pay off debt. I have not had a mortgage or debt in more than 20 years. There has only been one friend who was even interested or supportive or understood the desire to pay off debt and save. It was more "normal" to have others envious, jealous, intimidated, etc. and to express that in various ways. Most of the employees I worked with were living paycheck to paycheck and did not understand a different way. I learned not to talk about it.
Net worth and the handling of money are best not discussed in ordinary conversations. I think there is a reason that it is not considered in many groups a "polite" subject. Too controversial.
jennipurrr
4-4-13, 10:18pm
Well, I have my blog so pretty much most people have access to it if they want to know my business. Right now we are sort of in a holding pattern between paying off the mortgage and moving to a nicer area.
My family is frugal and completely supports the concept...they are some of my biggest supporters. Most of my friends know I am quirky financially as I am not shy about talking about our paid off cars, etc. I don't really talk about it at the office but one of my coworkers found my blog and wanted to talk about doing it himself, so I suppose people know about it...I guess if they aren't inspired or don't agree with the lifestyle then they just don't really discuss it with me.
DHs family is another story. DH tried to tell them when we started really making some big financial changes years ago and they did not get it. They are definitely the kind I could see hitting us up for money when we pay off the mortgage. However, long ago when we were really hardcore frugal to pay off DHs student loans and DVR kind of cable was brand new, DHs brother asked for to borrow money. DH told him he doesn't loan money to people with higher cable packages (we were paying $8 mo and had 13 channels) and DHs brother was paying nearly $100 and had DVR. Over the years his family has learned there is no money to be given from us for their bad choices.
Congrats Paul, can't wait to hear when you hit the zero balance, what an accomplishment!
I would be cautious because, if I recall correctly, you and your wife both work for the same employer. Sometimes when hard decisions have to be made about layoffs, the powers that be may try to keep a position for someone they feel "needs" it more. If it is widely known that you are mortgage free, either you or your wife could be bumped up the list for a RIF.
Once you are FI, then I'd feel free to toot, but as long as you are wanting/needing to have both incomes in, I would proceed with caution.
I think some people may have looked at it as bragging but it was never our intention. Both DH and I had previously been married to people who left us in dire straits. We have similar spending/saving habits but it took him several years to adopt simplicity at a higher level. We were excited about it because we came from so far behind. We worked hard and made hard choices. I felt as proud as I would if I lost 100lbs or finished a big marathon. People will express sincere congrats at those accomplishments but not for getting out of debt. Somehow it seems like your success is coming at their expense.
I thank God we did what we did. Since DH had his stroke last November and then lost his job, we are waiting for long term disability approval and are paying $1500 a month for insurance. If we didn't own our home and vehicles or had debt we would be hosed. Riding high one moment and rug pulled out the next. It can happen to anybody and for that reason I am very happy I married my lovely ant and am no longer drowning with a grasshopper.
Owning your own home is a huge accomplishment. Be proud. At least on these boards we get it and appreciate the reasons why.
flowerseverywhere
4-5-13, 3:46am
simplemind, you said it all. life can change in an instant so the more you do to protect yourself the better you can sleep at night and weather what life throws at you.
We're getting close. We have $18,000 to go on the mortgage. I find I always want to mention it to people. I feel like it's an accomplishment, particularly on one income for so long, and now we're still only just over $50,000 a year.
That is awesome! DH and i were in the same direction until we decided to sell! Way to go!
But I wonder about the etiquette of talking about debt. I still feel like I'm basically a poor poet type, and everyone is doing better than me, and unconsciously, I think I feel driven to demonstrate that I'm doing OK, and I fit in to my peer group, and so on.
"Yeah," I like to say, "my shoes may be on the verge of falling apart, but when I get the mortgage cleared off the decks next year, I'm going to buy a new pair."
I have to remind myself that most people are probably "leveraged" to the hilt for their new cars, new clothes, and iPads. I've made a choice to dress like a hobo so I can be debt free. I don't need to be waggling my raggedy ass shoes in the face of people who are deep in debt.
I had to continually remind my husband of this. he didn't understand why so many people our age were living so fancy. And I pointed out "debt." And he was like, what do you mean? and I went online and showed him how much the houses, cars, clothes, and other things "cost." He realized that with their salaries (as we understood them), there was no way they weren't doing it without mega-debt.
And it's not like we were living terrible. We had everything that we needed, and we actually lived *very* comfortably in my opinion! But, it wasn't fancy.
Then, years later, two dear friends got divorced. As her support system, she confided in me that she mostly just wanted to walk away debt free. You see, most of what they had was debt. The only thing they had otherwise was 401k stuff. So, she walked away with her 401k and a portion of his (small portion), and just asked for nothing else other than to walk away debt free. It was settled very quickly -- he kept the house, cars, electronics, etc etc etc. He kept the debt. It was a lot of debt. beyond their $250k house (value) which had two mortgages, they had $80k in consumer debt alone, and then also the cars. It was . . . well, it's shocking if you ask me.
So, here were two people who made good money ($120 combined after tax) who were so ridiculously deep in debt that one job loss could have sent them to bankruptcy. DH felt rather better about our spending habits after hearing her out.
Do other people feel that getting out of debt should be a quiet, personal thing? It's odd, for some reason, not knowing how people are really doing. Am I really that poor? Are other people really that well off?
to be honest, you really are "that poor" compared to most people I know in terms of earning, but you are "wealthier" than people i know in terms of financial freedom.
Do i think we need to be quiet about it all? not really, but I don't like to talk about finances with everyone. For a lot of people, financial discussions are scary, and for others -- like politics -- it can be a very emotional subject.
With our mortgage almost paid, and our retirement account. Our "official" net worth is somewhere just offer $250,000. I still look at that, and it doesn't mean anything to me. I look at it and think it's something of a joke as I move $5 from the entertainment part of the budget to cover the afternoon I spent going out to eat soup with my eleven-year-old son.
Still, I'm very excited as I close in on paying off the mortgage. I'm more of a Your Money or Your Life person than I am a Dave Ramsey person, but I almost feel compelled to call in and give a debt free scream.
How much of your frugality, working your way out of debt, do you talk about with your friends and coworkers?
I would say that I don't talk about it too often with people, but I do talk about it openly when it comes up. I'm surrounded largely with like-minded people in other ways, so many of us are already on this path as it is. It's great, really.
I will say, though, it's totally in fashion in my circles for people to throw parties when their student loan debts are paid off. We even invite people via facebook to these "Student-Debt Free" parties. They are a BIG deal.
Also, people will throw them for part of the debt being paid: Private Loan Student Debt Free! and my personal favorite was my friend having her DCS Free! party. I visited "online" with a "yoo-hoo! way to go, super awesome!"
Perhaps this is a different kind of debt, though.
I think there is a perception that if you pay off your mortgage at an earlier age then you must have loads of money to do so - having debt is so ingrained in our culture. We need to make the same decision as our frugal saving efforts the past few years have left us with enough to pay it off. Still sitting on the fence about it though. Seems like these days and depending on where your house is, it is certainly better than money in the bank. I would want to toot my horn but only among certain friends and family.
I think, in some ways, in mentioning it to some people, I just want to demonstrate that we've been doing things like patching our kids' jackets to get them through the winter because we had a larger goal in mind. Those are the social situations I don't really fit in particularly well, like the scout troop. I want to point out that we live frugally, maybe partially because we don't make a ton of money, but also because we want to clear our debts completely off the board while our children are still relatively young so that we will be in a better position to help them with college without taking on more debt. I think I want to show that fugality is an intelligent choice. Appearing unintelligent is probably one of my biggest social fears. My mother also used to tell me all the time, "You're so smart, you could be a doctor or a lawyer when you grow up." That bugged the heck out of me, but my parents were coming out of a childhood in the depression, with limited education. In terms of my family -- though both my parents are gone -- I want to somehow justify that I didn't choose to go the high income route. My sister, by the way, is a doctor, and she says that we have more in savings and less debt than she has, though she could probably just stick one paycheck in the bank and be ahead of us financially.
Mostly though, it's just a big life event. You tell people you know when you have kids, or get a new pet, or buy a new bicycle. You tell people when you buy a new house. It's curious that it might be wise to keep quiet about actually paying for your house. The majority of people I interact with make a similar income, or higher - usually higher - so it's not like I'm bragging to the guy selling newspapers on the sidewalk. I guess I sort of assume, too, that most people are working toward paying off their house. Of course, no one talks about it, so I don't know, and I probably have too strong of an impression in that direction because I listen to Dave Ramsey's podcast every day when I walk to the school to pick up my son.
Like Zoebird's husband, I don't have a real good grasp of how much our culture runs on debt. When someone pulls out their iPhone, I automatically assume they're further along in paying for stuff than I am. I think, to some extent, I'm also trying to gauge the reality of that perception to see where I fit in - though that's not something I'm conscious about doing - "I see your shiny new iPhone. Does that mean your house is paid for? We're working on paying off our house. After that, maybe I'll get an iPhone too, but probably not. I don't need to pay that much money each month so people can bother me when I'm not in the house, which I almost own by the way..."
We've only ever covered topics like this when others make it a topic. When I left work last year, people asking how we were going to do it provided the perfect introduction to talk a bit about making the lifestyle choices and purchasing decisions that made it possible. Similarly, if a relative or friend joked about my "old" (10-year-old) car, I would respond by telling them that the 10-year-old car meant no car loan and that we were putting the money to better uses (like paying off the mortgage early).
Starting the conversation about living simply and/or debt-minimal or debt-free really is like religious evangelizing. And I'm guessing many people will react to illustrations of their financial vices the same way they react to illustrations of their personal vices.
Exactly.
Exactly.
" DH told him he doesn't loan money to people with higher cable packages "
Perfect! That's an excellent benchmark and makes the point without belaboring it.
" I guess I sort of assume, too, that most people are working toward paying off their house."
Probably not. Most people I know IRL feel that a mortgage is such a large amount they they "couldn't" ever pay it off. Still others have fallen for the idea that the mortgage interest deduction on their taxes is more valuable than a paid for house. There are some other reasons I've heard that I didn't understand and thus can't repeat, but the point is many people see a mortgage as a permanent life expense.
awakenedsoul
4-5-13, 11:04am
pcooley,
It sounds like you are comparing yourself to others. In my case, the friends I was talking with are dancers I worked with over 20 years ago. One of them was directing the Rockettes. They had to cut back their number of shows on the road, and she lost her position. She has twins. The other bought a house with his brother at the height of the market. He rents an apt. in NYC. They were renting it out, and rents have gone down. They're underwater now. He was just eating apples and oatmeal to pay his bills. He works very long hours. I find discussing finances with close friends fascinating. But, if you're not making the same amount of money, it can make it uncomfortable. My life is so much easier now, because I've inherited money and greatly reduced my expenses. Life isn't fair, and to some people it might cause resentment that I don't "have" to work anymore. But, the reason I was able to retire early was I don't mind making do, farming, using the bike or bus for transportation, etc. As Steve said, I think it is sort of like discussing religion. I have a couple of neighbors that are in debt up to their eyeballs. They are both single women who are smart, successful, and independent. They both go on and on to me about how much they pray and about how they're going to church, etc. I think they feel safer that way. (They know I'm not a Christian.) It's obvious to me they are trying to convert me to their way. They really force the issue. It makes me uncomfortable. But, I just smile and exit on my bike...
People are more comfortable with others who are like them.
I think, in some ways, in mentioning it to some people, I just want to demonstrate that we've been doing things like patching our kids' jackets to get them through the winter because we had a larger goal in mind.
You don't owe anyone an explanation, especially if you're not funding them.
My mother also used to tell me all the time, "You're so smart, you could be a doctor or a lawyer when you grow up." That bugged the heck out of me, but my parents were coming out of a childhood in the depression, with limited education. In terms of my family -- though both my parents are gone -- I want to somehow justify that I didn't choose to go the high income route.
You don't owe your parents an explanation, either. So would it have been better if you had millions of dollars and a broken family? You have a successful marriage, good kids, and a comfortable life. Isn't that the measure of a life well-lived? Wouldn't your parents be glad that was your life?
Mostly though, it's just a big life event. You tell people you know when you have kids, or get a new pet, or buy a new bicycle. You tell people when you buy a new house. It's curious that it might be wise to keep quiet about actually paying for your house.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't volunteer that I've bought anything. The new bicycle gets talked about only if someone else sees it and makes a comment. Most of my friends realized I had a new car (10 years ago) only when I rolled up in it and got out of it. Just doesn't occur to me to mention it as "big news in my life".
Like Zoebird's husband, I don't have a real good grasp of how much our culture runs on debt. When someone pulls out their iPhone, I automatically assume they're further along in paying for stuff than I am.
I did the same thing for a long time. I'd see much nicer houses than ours, two expensive cars/SUVs in the driveway, lots of kids toys littering the perfect lawn, and wonder how the occupants -- a married couple about our age -- could do it. Then I figured it out. Sure, some of them were better paid than we were. Some did it on The Bank of Mom and Dad. But some (probably most) do it by being in perpetual debt -- always a mortgage, always a car payment, always a cable payment, always a cell-phone payment, always a TJ Maxx or Macy's payment, ... Not for me, thanks.
flowerseverywhere
4-5-13, 2:20pm
I think I want to show that fugality is an intelligent choice. Appearing unintelligent is probably one of my biggest social fears.
I applaud you for all your hard work, but if you know you are doing the right thing for your kids, yourself and your wife it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Maybe you can post here when you get to $15,000, $12,000 and so on and we'll all give you a big whoohoo.
I think it is the same if you are a recovering alcoholic, ex-smoker, lose 50 lbs. etc. Most people don't want to know how you did it because then they can't use the same old excuses that aren't working for them.
Life_is_Simple
4-5-13, 8:41pm
Do other people feel that getting out of debt should be a quiet, personal thing? It's odd, for some reason, not knowing how people are really doing. Am I really that poor? Are other people really that well off?
With our mortgage almost paid, and our retirement account. Our "official" net worth is somewhere just offer $250,000.
To put it into perspective for you, here is comparison info from the US Census site... Since your household Net Worth is just over $250k and I don't know your age, I will give you all age groups:
if you are <35 years old, you are in the 94th percentile (better than 94 percent of households of that age group)
if you are 35-44, you are in the 82nd percentile
if you are 45-54, you are in the 72nd percentile
if you are 55-64, you are in the 64th percentile
if you are 65-69, you are in the 56th percentile
if you are 70-74, you are in the 59th percentile
if you are 75+, you are in the 64th percentile
So no matter what your age, you are doing better than over half the people in your age group! :+1: :cool:
For anyone interested, this is 2011 data from the Census.gov site : Census link (http://www.census.gov/people/wealth/) . They have census data, but also do additional surveys. I used Table 4 from the excel link "Net Worth and Asset Ownership of Households: 2011" further down on that page.
we're 82! we're 82! :D lol
Part of the problem in this country with money is because we don't talk about money. Seriously.
When I worked as a caseworker for a non-profit that provided interest free loans to those who qualified, I saw so many good people who had made one simple mistake which they were willing to pay the price for, such as a bounced check, but it created a cascade of problems in their attempts to resolve it that they became absolutely buried.
Each step they took to dig themselves out got them deeper and deeper in trouble. All the scam payday loans, home equity loan scams to cover credit cards, etc. It was like I could identify which scary commercial they saw, believed and then tried to help themselves. But this is all they knew, this is how they learned their money management.
They had no one to talk to along the way until it was a great big choking mess :( Many from poor families themselves who had few money management skills because they didn't have money in which to make these mistakes.
pcooley should say something. In the right way, to the right people. It doesn't need to be a brag but a relief that now that the mortgage is paid off, you can start saving for the kids college, more for retirement, etc. How else will others learn? If anyone is curious as to how he did it, then he can add more but really, a paid off mortgage is a right of passage. A time to celebrate!! Start planning the (frugal) party :)
I would love to see a true home economics class in the schools that covers true home econ such as banking, CCs, mortgages, 401k/457/IRAs, etc.
Part of the problem in this country with money is because we don't talk about money. Seriously.
When I worked as a caseworker for a non-profit that provided interest free loans to those who qualified, I saw so many good people who had made one simple mistake which they were willing to pay the price for, such as a bounced check, but it created a cascade of problems in their attempts to resolve it that they became absolutely buried.
Each step they took to dig themselves out got them deeper and deeper in trouble. All the scam payday loans, home equity loan scams to cover credit cards, etc. It was like I could identify which scary commercial they saw, believed and then tried to help themselves. But this is all they knew, this is how they learned their money management.
They had no one to talk to along the way until it was a great big choking mess :( Many from poor families themselves who had few money management skills because they didn't have money in which to make these mistakes.
pcooley should say something. In the right way, to the right people. It doesn't need to be a brag but a relief that now that the mortgage is paid off, you can start saving for the kids college, more for retirement, etc. How else will others learn? If anyone is curious as to how he did it, then he can add more but really, a paid off mortgage is a right of passage. A time to celebrate!! Start planning the (frugal) party :)
I would love to see a true home economics class in the schools that covers true home econ such as banking, CCs, mortgages, 401k/457/IRAs, etc.
You have raised good points in this post. If OP can mention at the appropriate time and with appropriate audience that his wife and he carefully worked out a plan to pay off mortgage and then all the other commitments and they are on target. Leave it at.
the rest of plan will be in effect
I learned homegrown frugality from my mother, but I learned money management by reading every book the library had on personal money management and investing. As Dhiana pointed out, the info readily available is mostly for scams and if people stumble on that before they stumble on Dave Ramsey, the problem just gets worse. OTOH, I have tried to share simple money saving things with people who could use it and met with resistance or a blank stare. If they won't listen to small affordable tips, how much less likely to listen to a big project like paying off the mortgage.
domestic goddess
4-7-13, 9:16am
I don't ever remember mentioning it, even to family, but then I come from an era when money wasn't discussed at all. When dd and dsil were having some problems, the whole world knew about it, and I sometimes wished they'd just shut up and find another topic of conversation. I think a lot of people are living beyond their means and don't really want to hear about people who have made a different decision. Sure it is possible to live within your means, but it means a certain amount of sacrifice, and who wants to do that?
Life_is_Simple
4-7-13, 12:07pm
we're 82! we're 82! :D lol
That's great!! :+1: :cool:
I'm at about the 60th percentile. It's sometimes helps to compare to some actual baseline data, just to put your mind at ease that you are making progress.
I don't brag about it, but am fairly happy about being debt free, living below my means, and leaving the traditional work force at a relatively early age. I have few qualms about sharing this and pointing out that they are connected. It actually sort of helps when I am invited to expensive affairs or encouraged to spend money on things I don't really need.
There are a few money things that I don't discuss with others, but for the most part don't mind revealing facts and figures to people I know.
When I get invited to stuff that is too expensive, I will simply state that it is not in my budget. That has resonated with a few people. If it is a worthy cause, I may make a donation to the cause that is within a budget that I have set. I may be able to afford the event but choose not to.
I make a point of mentioning that my entertainment is within a budget and that I get cheap seats on my seasonal subscriptions so that I can do a number of things in a year.
There are many ways of talking about careful money management to appropriate listeners without getting into too many details.
ApatheticNoMore
4-8-13, 1:16pm
I prioritize spending time with people over saving money pretty much always. Then again I don't think I've ever had super high end friends and I've often had to be the one being careful at suggesting even something like meeting for brunch on a weekend, because lots of people are down and out (yes one might like to believe they were frugal instead - but broke is actually a lot more common).
HumboldtGurl
4-8-13, 4:47pm
DH and I are pretty public about it. Between mentioning it on our blog and being walking billboards for Dave Ramsey's money philosophies, I tell people every chance I get about the awesome feeling of not being a slave to credit cards or mortgages. That is, IF I hear them talking about credit card or loan issues. I don't usually bring it up otherwise.
I don't mention this because I want to brag that we are mortgage/debt-free, but because I want to help change lives. I never would have changed our life by reading Dave's book if it wasn't for a very open, talkative woman who told me about her family's debt-free living, so I want to pay it forward by spreading the word. If more people here in the U.S. lived within their means, can you imagine how awesome that would be?!
The thing is, when I do tell people that DH and I are saving up the cash to buy a new RV, I get nothing but a bunch of "oh you're crazy! That's a lot of money to try to save!" feedback. So to tune out the negative nellies, I usually keep my mouth shut about goals like this if I'm among doubters.
"I see your shiny new iPhone. Does that mean your house is paid for?" LOL!
ApatheticNoMore
4-8-13, 5:24pm
Of course an iphone cost what maybe $100 a month, and a 500k mortgage for 30 years at the current rate is $2,256.40 a month, just to give some perspective. And though I would hope one had *some* downpayment and it's not necessarily impossible to find cheaper housing, that's not particularly unusual for what people willingly pay for housing here. So if you rent and carry an iphone it's cool with me :)
I'll be in the no-mortgage club for both of my properties by the end of the year. Only my very good friends know this. They've been the ones who have watched me live well below my means for years, spend my money mindfully, live with room mates and defer a lot of spending.
Thankfully, these same people are the ones who prefer potlucks to restaurants and other low-cost entertainment. A couple of them have been mortgage free for awhile already. We are all very careful with our spending. Funny, we all dress well below the "average" as well, no fashion chasing or anything like that. Very boring to those on the "outside," but secure. I'll take security over fashion anyday.
My posse generally lives in paid-off housing too (I know this because they told me), and most of them manage money notably better than I do. They don't bat an eye at frugality, thrift shopping, old paid-off cars, or pre-owned pets. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/cherna/Cherna-cat.gif http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/viannen/viannen_03.gif
I consider paying off our mortgage a few years back (hmmm...was it 4 years back? I can't remember!) one of the biggest milestones in my life. Because of this, I wanted to tell EVERYONE! But, as far as my inlaws are concerned, we are the poor people. I have told a very small percentage of people (a few of our best friends, and my folks) - other than that ... we kept our lips sealed, and I am *very* glad that we did not tell anyone else! I have learned it is better to be pitied and have plenty in the bank, than be jealous of and have nothing in the bank. That is another thing to be careful about - if you tell people, it will make them jealous. There is no need for that! Just my .02 :)
Sometimes i just ask them what to do about it and how can i pay them all.In Finland some people use to ask their friends about their debt but some use to ask tilitoimistopalvelut lappeenranta (http://www.tilikanava.com) or accounting service who are giving a financial advice on what to do to your money or how to budget it to pay all your debt etc which for me a good idea because they are really helpful.
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