View Full Version : Does the Prez need "gender sensitivity training?"
http://news.yahoo.com/obamas-best-looking-attorney-general-sexist-gaffe-085000032.html
He said several nice things about California's Attorney General including the fact that she was nice looking. He's getting guff for that from his base.
Should President Obama submit to thought police lashings? Is it time to haul him off to the camps?
My reaction: Jesus Mary Joseph, cut the guy a break!
http://news.yahoo.com/obamas-best-looking-attorney-general-sexist-gaffe-085000032.html
Should President Obama submit to thought police lashings? Is it time to haul him off to the camps?
My reaction: Jesus Mary Joseph, cut the guy a break!
+1
Should President Obama submit to thought police lashings?
I'm not a fan of our president and his governance, but I'm even less a fan of political correctness and those who force it upon us. That said, I gotta admit I do find it amusing to see progressives turn on their own.
What Alan said. And, well, she IS pretty.
Seriously, It was a compliment! People need to freaking relax! It is ridiculous that no one can say anything anymore without some group screaming how wrong it is for various reasons. Ugh........
I'm guessing the woman in question is saying to herself..."Hell yeah!" I don't think it's her who is pushing this silliness. She is a pretty woman. Is it a crime to say so? Frankly I think it's some on the right who are trying to stir the pot, just as they tried to tar him with the Easter service pastor's sermon, or some other such goofiness.
I mean, it's not liked he tried to give her a back rub or anything...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPArZwLHi2Y
Although I have to admit Bush was just being...well, Bush, and we didn't discuss this, did we! There wasn't a single thread on it, as I recall. It would seem that democrats understand, and excuse simple harmless human nature, and republicans capitalize on it...but only if it's democrats behaving, human. The double standard is soooo....
Wildflower
4-5-13, 10:20pm
Why does a woman's appearance need to be commented on at all? It doesn't matter what a women achieves in life, it always comes back down to what she looks like! PC or not - men just don't have this problem. Some things will never change.....the most valuable thing about a woman is her appearance in the majority of society's eyes.
Apparently, he also has riled his peers by caving to the conservatives on cuts to SS.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/04/05/176351738/obama-riles-his-own-party-with-social-security-offer
ApatheticNoMore
4-6-13, 2:12am
By proposing a budget with these cuts that is, I'm not sure I'd call stepping right out and proposing a budget "caving". Of course the conservatives are playing hard ball but ... I doubt much of their base, many of who collect SS even wants SS cuts, it's not a very popular thing. So if he was really being "bullied by politics" he could take it to the people, but he doesn't, and that makes it obvious enough to me that that's not what it's about.
"President Obama's decision to include in the budget proposal he's scheduled to unveil Wednesday a less generous way to calculate Social Security cost-of-living increases"
"A less generous way" to calculate SS cost-of-living increases, no it's a complete scam, it's likely a straight out x% cut, say x is 5% or something, would be better than this chained nonsense, it's a compound interest type calculation without bounds, it has an element of risk and uncertainty no x% cut would. Granted any cuts open the program up for future cuts, so there is that political uncertainty, but there isn't economic uncertainty about the potential impact of the policy right in front of you like there is here. It's the worst possible scam. As if SS COLAs are so generous anyway. They are already inflation adjusted and probably already inflation understated (if anything they should use CPI-E - or the elderly CPI). They could very well start "chaining" other things as well, like taxes, though whether they really have the motive to do that, I do not know (and the problem there wouldn't be tax increases per se it would be the unbounded stuff).
Seems to me no matter what Obama does, he pisses someone off, somewhere.
Man, I would not want to be him!
Good grief, it's a compliment. I'd take a compliment like that from anyone, anytime. I'm not an Obama supporter but he's been often accused of lyiing and when he tells an obvious truth and he's still crucified. I support him on this one.
What really bugs me is that a woman dresses up all fancy.......fancy hairdo, make-up, jewelry, and acts all feminine.............and men aren't supposed to be attracted??
Besides it being a harmless comment on Obama's part, it seems that some women's total look just begs for comments like that.
I know I'm not articulating this very well. Give the guy a break. Our society can be so weird some times! .......we do everything possible to distance ourselves from the animal world and behavior gets very confusing. (at least for me).
Even when women don't dress up, wear make up and jewelry or act in any extra feminine way when on a job, they often still get comments on their looks - comments that have nothing to do with their job preformance, skills, education, or achievements. Especially if they are in what is a traditonally male dominated job or held by more males than females. There is always this implied belief that you got where you are because of your looks rather than your acomlishments, and it can be somewhat deflating and even humiliating to your "successes and achievements" and even ego to have your looks commented on. So while I personally don't think it sexist or even harmful, I agree with Wildflower - why even make those kind of comments at all when commenting on someone career achievements - at least not in a public venue for all the world to hear.
I would like to see him make the the same intro for a male attorney general and see how it goes over.
I would like to see him make the the same intro for a male attorney general and see how it goes over.
But why would he do that? The President isn't gay. The President likes girls and happens to like the way this girl looked, so he gave her a compliment about her physical appearance. This compliment followed a string of phrases about the good job she was doing as AG.
Did anyone actually read his words? You know, he didn't say "that babe in California, she's hot!" he said some things about what a great, effective, and talented AG she was and the great job she's doing and then lastly mentioned that she's pretty, too.
Ok, I give up. He's not prone to this sort of thing so I think he deserve slack.
But why would he do that? The President isn't gay. The President likes girls and happens to like the way this girl looked, so he gave her a compliment about her physical appearance. This compliment followed a string of phrases about the good job she was doing as AG.
Did anyone actually read his words? You know, he didn't say "that babe in California, she's hot!" he said some things about what a great, effective, and talented AG she was and the great job she's doing and then lastly mentioned that she's pretty, too.
Ok, I give up. He's not prone to this sort of thing so I think he deserve slack.
So does that mean that any comment like this is just some variation of "I'd do her?" Even if it's done "politely"?
I think there are places where comments like this can be appropriate - I think tagging it onto a description of someone's career accomplishments isn't. There is a measure of tact involved, too. What does it imply then when he doesn't include a comment like that in a future speech about some other woman?
I'm just harping on the content, though. As far as cutting slack, anyone who has to speak for a living is going to have a long list of "that was probably not the best thing to say".
Good Grief! I think he is a good president, but I also think he has a great smile, and is a fairly good looking man. Does that make me sexiest? I mean, looks plays an important part of how we view people, despite us trying to deny that. It is human nature, and I think this is just some trying to find something, anything to criticize this man for.
And yes, we do apply this to men. Think about how candidates for office are viewed/presented in the press. How do they describe a male candidate? They say he is 'young, good looking and ambitious" and I don't think a single one of those candidates complains. They take it as the compliment it is. They are groomed just to appeal to the visual. Sorry to say, but fat, pale and sweaty will never win over young, good looking and trim.
ApatheticNoMore
4-7-13, 12:09pm
Well things like this are always about power relationships also and he is the most powerful man in the world (far too powerful but that is a different civil liberties discussion), with no direct power over her career (so one remark would not rise to the level of legal sexual harassment) but perhaps not setting the best example of how to treat women when you are powerful and in the spotlight 24/7.
Oh and I don't care if guys at the bar do it there or something (or really anywhere outside the workplace where doing it not once but repeatedly would be illegal), yea well, they aren't the President of the U.S. whose every word is being broadcast and so it's assumed every word is chosen. I think there's a natural expectation that his words will be held to a higher standard when giving a speech (joe schmoe may also burst out into a string of curses sometimes, but if the President did ...). Perhaps such expectations elevate Presidents too high though. Maybe it would be a better world if it was abundantly clear that a President, some dude in the bar, there shouldn't be that much more respect for one than the other, somehow I dont' see this as ever being interpreted that way though ...
A thought experiment: imagine it wasn't Obama but the CEO of a company you work for making this speech at some company wide presentation, would it seem a tad off? See because that's another environment in which polish might be expected. Bill Clinton could have gotten away with it though in a way Obama never could, just because polish was really not his thing.
... Bill Clinton could have gotten away with it though in a way Obama never could, just because polish was really not his thing.
"polish not his thing" haha more like he was a known horn dog and probably played that up now and then.
I would like to see him make the the same intro for a male attorney general and see how it goes over.
It is apparently a phrase he has used many times in reference to men and even sons of diplomats.
"Some might say so given the president also likes to dish out similar compliments to men. He's used the phrase "good looking guy" in reference to HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/02/01/remarks-president-housing), former Interior Secretary Ken Salazar (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/21/remarks-president-energy),Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/02/26/remarks-president-impact-sequester-newport-news-va) and others, including sports figures."
I think the whole ruckus is plain dumb.
I'm thinking there should be a sensitivity app that politicians could use to score and screen potentially hot words or phrases before they say them
I'm thinking there should be a sensitivity app that politicians could use to score and screen potentially hot words or phrases before they say them
There is. It's called a brain. Apparently its still in beta testing.
The President likes girls and happens to like the way this girl looked, so he gave her a compliment about her physical appearance. This compliment followed a string of phrases about the good job she was doing as AG.
Well it's not so much what he said, but the fact that it was said in the public media and really had nothing to do with her job performance or skills. It de-values her achievements IMHO and while meant in good humor and as a compliment rather than a sexist comment, it was out of place. I had the same thing happen to me once when I got a medal from an Admiral, along with 3 males crew members, for a rescue of 5 fishmen in a capsized boat in a winter storm in Maine. It was televised and there were lots of reporters from various media. The guys got the bravery comments, I got the she's cute comment even though I was the rescue swimmer on that job and did all the "heavy lifting" as it were. It really de-valued what I had done (and what other women in the same job were doing) by commenting on my looks rather than my skills. It was very humiliating. Made me feel like I was nothing more than a piece of eye-candy, acting as a cheerleader for the boys. So while I recognized it as a compliment (on something I hadn't "achieved" by hard work and dedication just random genetics) it was very inappropriate under the circumstances and in that particular public media forum.
What really bugs me is that a woman dresses up all fancy.......fancy hairdo, make-up, jewelry, and acts all feminine.............and men aren't supposed to be attracted??
Besides it being a harmless comment on Obama's part, it seems that some women's total look just begs for comments like that.
I don't see that she is dressed or made up any differently from the millions of other women who work in busness and politics - Hillary Clinton, Madeline Albright, Diane Feinstein (the lady who loves wearing bright red from head to toe with all sorts of jewlery and make up), etc... All those women wear the exact same thing as Kamala Harris - which is very appropriate for their work environment. Why are their look not "begging" for comments from men? So, because she is attractive, she must play down her looks and wear gray baggy granny clothes, her hair in a severe bun, no make up, jewelry, or heels and put a paper bag over her head?
ApatheticNoMore
4-9-13, 1:44pm
I don't see that she is dressed or made up any differently from the millions of other women who work in busness and politics - Hillary Clinton, Madeline Albright, Diane Feinstein (the lady her loves wearing bright red from head to toe with all sorts of jewlery and make up), etc... All those women wear the exact same thing as Kamala Harris - which is very appropriate for their work environment.
+1
iris lilies
4-9-13, 10:39pm
Well it's not so much what he said, but the fact that it was said in the public media and really had nothing to do with her job performance or skills. It de-values her achievements IMHO and while meant in good humor and as a compliment rather than a sexist comment, it was out of place. I had the same thing happen to me once when I got a medal from an Admiral, along with 3 males crew members, for a rescue of 5 fishmen in a capsized boat in a winter storm in Maine. It was televised and there were lots of reporters from various media. The guys got the bravery comments, I got the she's cute comment even though I was the rescue swimmer on that job and did all the "heavy lifting" as it were. It really de-valued what I had done (and what other women in the same job were doing) by commenting on my looks rather than my skills. It was very humiliating. Made me feel like I was nothing more than a piece of eye-candy, acting as a cheerleader for the boys. So while I recognized it as a compliment (on something I hadn't "achieved" by hard work and dedication just random genetics) it was very inappropriate under the circumstances and in that particular public media forum.
She Rah, that sucks and I completely sympathize and yes there is NO excuse in your situation. See, the thing is that you were very young and very cute and in a hugely male dominated field so that should have been a big No no to Say Out Loud what all of those men were thinking when they saw you.
To me, the Calif AG isn't that cute, she ain't young, and it's a just a room full of dusty politicians, some male, some female. So give the woman a compliment, it's not as though everyone wants to shag her.
Clearly I've been slapped around now about this and my consciousness raised, so let's all keep comments about physical appearance out of work. Always and forever. Got it.
There is. It's called a brain. Apparently its still in beta testing.
YES. Thank you.
I don't see that she is dressed or made up any differently from the millions of other women who work in busness and politics - Hillary Clinton, Madeline Albright, Diane Feinstein (the lady who loves wearing bright red from head to toe with all sorts of jewlery and make up), etc... All those women wear the exact same thing as Kamala Harris - which is very appropriate for their work environment. Why are their look not "begging" for comments from men? So, because she is attractive, she must play down her looks and wear gray baggy granny clothes, her hair in a severe bun, no make up, jewelry, or heels and put a paper bag over her head?
I'm just saying that I find it all curious.......I view alot of what men/women do in terms of nature. I think, ultimately, women dressing up is to get attention from men. After the women's lib movement, it became "we're just dressing up to look good to the world".........but I still see the remnants of the other. I find "dressing up" something that is driven by an old notion and just wastes alot of energy and resources.
If a woman is so attractive, then why does she need to wear make-up, have her hair done, wear certain clothes? There is a very long continuum between being all "dolled up" and being a slob. I'm just saying women who want to be taken seriously might try toning it down a bit.
Like I said........there's nothing wrong with nature........with doing things to attract the opposite sex.........but be aware of it and not call it "just wanting to look good to the world". We humans are constantly trying to not be natural.
rodeosweetheart
4-10-13, 8:11am
+1 to Wildflower and Spartana. Actually x100--they have said it very well!
She Rah, that sucks and I completely sympathize and yes there is NO excuse in your situation. See, the thing is that you were very young and very cute and in a hugely male dominated field so that should have been a big No no to Say Out Loud what all of those men were thinking when they saw you.
To me, the Calif AG isn't that cute, she ain't young, and it's a just a room full of dusty politicians, some male, some female. So give the woman a compliment, it's not as though everyone wants to shag her.
Clearly I've been slapped around now about this and my consciousness raised, so let's all keep comments about physical appearance out of work. Always and forever. Got it.Ha ha - well I was pushing 27 (ancient!) and wore the same thing (uniform) as the guys and no male up, jewelry, and hair in a bun so I was surprised he even knew I was a female!
Well I love that big black stud Obama so he can say whatever he wants (OK - now THAT is sexist :-)!). But of course that is probably OK (although not P.C.) to say amongst "friends" here and IRL but in front of the media and world it's a no-no IMHO. And I'll admit this is sort of a pet peeve of mine - making comments or assumptions about people based on their looks or age or race or whatever (whether good or bad comments) - so I can be a tad touchy sometimes. I think that because I'm in Calif (and voted for Harris) I saw over and over and over again a million comments in the various media about her looks or style. It seemed to preface every article that was written or aired about her. So I imagine that during her entire career of 25 plus years (I think she's close to 50) she has been bombarded with those kind of comments continually - and the possible judgement on her abilities to do her job. So I imagine the Obama comment was probably just one of many - and probably one too many - in a long string of similair comments. It can get old I'm sure. As cathy A said, lots of people feel that the only reason women dress up or get made up is to look attractive to men, and they often judge that woman as shallow or vacous or vain soley because of that. I totally disagree that is the reason women dress up for their jobs, but am aware that many people feel like Cathy A about that, and Obama commenting on her looks sort of reinforces that belief. But in my experience, people (men and women) will often comment on your looks with regard to your job even if you are dressed down - sometimes even more often - and often make judgements about you based on that as much as being "dolled up".
I'm just saying that I find it all curious.......I view alot of what men/women do in terms of nature. I think, ultimately, women dressing up is to get attention from men. After the women's lib movement, it became "we're just dressing up to look good to the world".........but I still see the remnants of the other. I find "dressing up" something that is driven by an old notion and just wastes alot of energy and resources.
If a woman is so attractive, then why does she need to wear make-up, have her hair done, wear certain clothes? There is a very long continuum between being all "dolled up" and being a slob. I'm just saying women who want to be taken seriously might try toning it down a bit.
Like I said........there's nothing wrong with nature........with doing things to attract the opposite sex.........but be aware of it and not call it "just wanting to look good to the world". We humans are constantly trying to not be natural.
I agree there is a big difference between being dolled up (say to be seen as attractive to your mate) and being a slob. But I guess I don't see Harris's style of dressing (or any of the other women I see who are professionals) as anything but that of a conservative professional. She's not dressing or acting like a Pam Anderson sex-kitten or a Lyndsay Lohan party-girl. I think she dress appropriatly for the job. However, like you, I'd love to live in a world where woman don't have to be all polished and coiffed to be accepted as "professional". I personally wouldn't do it myself if I were a professional person - I'd be the slacks, jacket and flats kind of dresser with the hair in a pony tail (and if i were a public figure I would probably br trashed by the media for dressing like I would - remember "Hillary-Hairgate"?). But most women are way more creative and indivialists when it comes to their looks and enjoy being able to dress up and wear nice (pretty) things - and good for them I say. I am dull and uncreative when it comes to clothes but admire women who can look nice yet be professionaly looking for their jobs - just as I admire men who are well put together for their jobs.
... I got the she's cute comment even though I was the rescue swimmer on that job ...
Umm, wow!
Maybe he meant "she's pretty hard-core!"
Umm, wow!
Maybe he meant "she's pretty hard-core!"Hmmm... doubtful. I think he was thinking I had my own built in "personal floation devices" :-)! Just joking. It was just a light hearted, meant to be humorus and complimentary comment but ticked me off anyways. But then, like I said to IL, I am a tad touchy about that kind of stuff - probably unreasonably so. But hey! I got a medal so who cares :-)!
Well, you're definitely my hero(ine) for the whole Coast Guard/rescue swimmer thing!
Well, you're definitely my hero(ine) for the whole Coast Guard/rescue swimmer thing!
Thanks! Of course that was a long time ago when dinosaurs walked the earth and it was PC for the boss to comment on their secretaries legs while chasing them around the desk :-) so his comment was understandable - even though I looked like a gawky teenage boy instead of an almost thirty year old woman :-) . Hmmm...maybe the Admiral was looking for a new cabin boy!
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