View Full Version : Harassed at our apartment
Sorry about the big block of text - for some reason pressing Enter doesn't give me a new paragraph on this forum. Is there some other way to do it? Tab doesn't work either. Wasn't sure where else to post this - my husband works at a radio station and gets up super early. He was leaving for work a couple mornings ago around 4, when he saw a guy standing in the lobby staring at him. There's usually no one else in the lobby at that hour, so it was kind of strange. The guy said something to my husband, but he had an accent which made him hard to understand. His manner was also hostile. So my husband was a bit freaked out and just exited the building and started walking to work (it's about four blocks from our place). So he realizes this guy is following him. It's dark out, and our apts. are in a dicey part of town. Folks get mugged and harassed all the time in our area, and here it was 4 in the morning and dark, and this guy is following him. So he's a bit weirded out. The guy starts yelling, and then jumps head of my husband on the sidewalk and blocks him. Then he puts his hand on my husband's arm and interrogates him about, "Where do you live?" My husband told him to get his hands off him and said it was none of the guy's business where he lived. He finally got away from the guy and was able to finish walking to work. Later that day, my husband described what happened to our apartment manager, who said, "Oh yeah, that's the head of the security company we use. They do random checks." When my husband said his behavior was out of line, the manager said, "Oh, that's how they are. They just have to get to know you." Anyway, this thing upset me so much, both the incident and the lackadaisical response from the on-site manager, that I wrote letters to the resident relations department of the local and national offices of the property owner, which is something called Equity Residential. I described what happened, said we were unhappy with the response of our manager, and wanted an apology and some assurance that the incident wouldn't be repeated. I also said I wanted some token of reparation, and I'm not sure what - but I feel they should give us something off next month's rent, or whatever. I didn't specify, but I think it should happen. And I said that the legal description of what happened to my husband was harassment and assault. I'm not a lawyer and we don't actually have one, and I felt a little weird about playing that card when I'm not sure there's anywhere to take this thing, if our concerns are dismissed by Equity Residential. So - do you think there's a chance of getting anything out of this? I'm just so mad I can't see. We've had a string of really $hitty apartment managers over the last ten years or so, and it gets SO old. Man, I can see why some people would do anything to avoid this kind of life.
In my state, the fellow likely committed assault in the fourth degree when he laid a hand on your husband. I'd call the police and file a report. Get the security guy's license, if any, yanked. Establish a paper trail.
Then next time he blocks your way, or lays a hand on you, resist as appropriate to your training and local laws... In my state, knowingly restraining another person is "unlawful imprisonment", it is a Class C felony, and you are allowed to resist it with lethal force. Just sayin'...
I wouldn't go down the path of "trying to get something" out of this. I'd nail the overly-ambitious security guard to the wall though, for the protection of yourself and others.
I second Bae's recommendation to call the police. That is unacceptable behavior from an employee of your building's management.
My experience with those big apartment management companies has been very negative so I'm not sure if you will get anything out of it other than getting this 'security guard' fired for his actions regarding your husband.
Thanks Bae, I'll report it. I appreciate your input!
<<>>Sorry about the big block of text - for some reason pressing Enter doesn't give me a new paragraph on this forum<<>>
Are you using Chrome? I have that problem on certain forums when I use Chrome.
Totally agree with Bae's recommendation.
<<>>Sorry about the big block of text - for some reason pressing Enter doesn't give me a new paragraph on this forum<<>>
Are you using Chrome? I have that problem on certain forums when I use Chrome.
If using Internet Explorer, there are sometimes problems with compatibility. If you see what appears to be a ripped piece of paper on the right side of your address bar, click it to enter compatibility mode. That should solve the problem.
So this guy didn't have anything identifying him as a security person? No uniform, badge, ID tag or anything? How does Equity even know who you were talking to? I would've called the cops straightaway.
I agree that what the guy did was inappropriate, but if you put yourself in his shoes maybe it seems more understandable.
4am, someone shows up in the lobby and ignores your greeting (which wasn't as friendly as usual because you've been up all night and are struggling to stay awake. Looks kind of funny/suspicious. There have been a string of petty thefts in the building so you want to follow up to make sure he isn't leaving with any of the residents' property. You follow him out of the building. He continues to ignore you when you ask where he lives. You grab his arm (in retrospect a poor choice) and he goes ballistic on you.
Anyway, I'm not saying the guy was right, but I get weird looks from the security guys all the time when I leave at 4:30 am. And those are the ones I see every day. They just aren't used to seeing people around at that hour, and tend to regard everyone with suspicion. And this is in a place where there probably aren't a lot of short, white, female petty theives running around :)
But the security guard should have been wearing a uniform and should have identified himself as security, clearly. Maybe he did in that first exchange, but your DH didn't understand him because of the accent.
Thankful the guy didn't have a gun.
Absolutely report to the police. I wouldn't go the 'getting something' route, as others have suggested. It only puts you in a bad light and easily dismissed as someone who is only trying to 'get something'. Make this about him and the apartment management who are acting completely inappropriate. I would definitely pursue this as your husband felt vulnerable and unprotected in his own home area.
Apartment management needs to introduce its security personnel (as pathetic as it apparently is) to its tenants, and vice versa--with a meeting and flyers, and security needs to get some professional training.
If using Internet Explorer, there are sometimes problems with compatibility. If you see what appears to be a ripped piece of paper on the right side of your address bar, click it to enter compatibility mode. That should solve the problem.
Cool. Just learned something new!http://militarycac.com/images/compatibility.jpg
Thanks for all your input, guys, it has really helped!
Anyway, goodish news - my husband got a call from the local branch of Equity Residential yesterday. I mailed my letters (to them and the Chicago corporate office) on Friday, so they must have picked up the phone the second they got that letter! They apologized to hubby and said they agreed that the security guard should not have refused to identify himself, and said they had called Frontier Security to let them know they were out of line. They also said they let our on-site manager know that his response to our initial complaint was inadequate.
They're giving us $150 off our upcoming rent - but they're also asking us to sign something, and they didn't tell us what the content of the document was. I'm wondering if it's an agreement not to pursue it legally.
Anyway, we got some action!
hm - thanks for the browser tip - I checked and didn't see a torn paper icon on my status bar - but I just upgraded my Mozilla browser, and I can do paragraphs again. Just having a good day I guess! lol
Very glad for the quick response from management.
Yes, they want you to sign something stating that the discount on rent is full closure to the issue. They know you have grounds to sue for assult.
Security should be in known uniform (even if its black suit with red tie) and should not have followed your husband without just cause. He did not see your husband damage property, etc.
I agree with Float On regarding the statement and rent reduction offer. It's a bribe to get you to legally absolve them of responsibility.
You can call me paranoid but calling the security company to let them know their guy was "out of line" may not be the end of all this. The guy sounds a bit 'off' already so if he gets a warning or is fired, what will he do? Will he come after your husband? You? Slash your tires? Will he still be around the apartment building doing security? If he does come after you, I would expect Equity Residential to pay for your security which would cost you way more than $150 out of your own pocket.
I wouldn't sign anything.
Please tell us you filed a police report!
Dhiana and Float On, good points. Hm...I know hubby wants this thing to be over, but I don't think I can let it go now. I'll file the report. Thanks for the encouragement!
gee, a police report? Couldn't your hubby, apt. manager, and security guard just all sit down together to discuss this and try to reach an amicable understanding with a handshake? I don't mean to belittle your concerns or offend you, and I know I wasn't there and it didn't happen to me. But if your hubby actually had been a prowler up to no good, the guard's aggressiveness would have been a good thing. Maybe he actually thought he was doing his job, protecting the site, and is now heartily sorry for all this and in fear of losing his job.
Miss Cellane
4-13-13, 8:51am
befree, it might seem like overkill, but I have to say that as a single woman living alone, the presence of a man I did not recognize in my apartment lobby at an odd hour would probably have meant that I would retreat immediately to my apartment, where I would call the police to report just that--a strange man in my apartment building, loitering in the lobby at 4 am.
Something's off here. Why wasn't the security guy in uniform, or in possession of a name badge or other ID? Why was someone hired who cannot speak clearly enough so that the residents of the building where he works can understand him? What kind of "random check" was being performed at 4 am?
And it's not so much the presence of the guy in the OP's post that bothers me, but that he followed her husband out of the building and accosted him. Are security guards empowered to do this? I don't think so, not when they haven't observed any untoward behavior.
Miss Cellane, that's how I feel about all of this. Apparently Equity Residential does too. The responded to my letter of complaint and have verbally admitted fault and expressed concern. There's nothing in writing, but I feel they've attended to my concerns about the loose cannon security guard, whose treatment of my hubby was essentially assault. They know we can sue, and they're hoping we don't - hence the pressure now to sign a form saying we won't pursue this further. - I'm pugnacious and hate to let stuff like this die, but hubby doesn't want to make a police complaint, and I can't force him to. A suit would probably be too expensive, and he's not sure what the point of it would be. Also - we've moved a lot, and this apartment works well for us - we figure pursuing this will just antagonize the landlord and property company further, and we don't want things to get any weirder with them than they already are. So we'll probably sign the form. I haven't actually seen it yet - we have to be there together with the landlord so he can witness our signatures. It'll be interesting to see how this document is worded. It didn't take them much time to throw it together. I'll bet they have the template on file - which makes me wonder how often they've had to resort to these situations. Maybe they screw up a lot!
Or they have a good lawyer on retainer. You might consider a call to the local Bar Association for some pro bono consultation with the doc in hand, before you sign it. You could add your own paragraph requiring a formal sit-down mediation with the company & guard in question, to air your grievance, and get an apology.
I might file a police report and drop it there, neither taking $150 nor carrying my story to an attorney.
You have already "aired your grievance" as the OP above references and the company responded. It's at an end, but the errant security guard may need mention in police files for future problems.
Great ideas, Redfox and Iris Lily. Being required to sign something in order to get their drop-in-the-bucket rebate feels strongarmish to me. If I'm signing something, it should be for my benefit too. Good point!
I want to go to the police, but my husband won't do it. Since he's the one who was harrassed, I believe he has to be there with me to file the report - am I right? I think he was physically intimidated by this guy more than he let on to me. I honestly think he's afraid the guy will retaliate. He knows where my husband is every day at 4am. He's scared - so if he doesn't want to pursue the police option, I probably won't push for it.
OTOH I do love the idea of checking with a lawyer to discuss the document before I sign it, and maybe add something to protect ourselves. Brilliant!
Guys, since I don't have a lawyer I thought I'd run this by you - after our experience, Equity Residential is offering us a whopping $150 off our rent if we sign an acknowledgement form. I just got it today - here's the gist of it: "Each Resident releases and forever discharges Equity Residential Management, L.L.C., the owner of the Community, their affiliated and related entities, and their respective past, present and future officers, directors, trustees, partners, members, attorneys, employees, insurers, agents, successors and assigns ("Released Parties") from and against any and all claims, demands, liabilities, injuries, damages and actions, known or unknown, direct or indirect, which Resident had, might now have, or may have against any of the Released Parties arising out of, relating to or in connection with, directly or indirectly, the Dispute [and Resident's occupancy of the Premises and use of the facilities at the Community.] Additionally, each Resident agrees not to discuss the terms of this Acknowledgment and Release with persons other than the persons residing in the Premises.
EACH RESIDENT ACKNOWLEDGES THAT HE/SHE HAS CAREFULLY READ AND FULLY UNDERSTANDS THE TERMS OF THIS ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND RELEASE, THAT HE/SHE UNDERSTANDS IT INCLUDES A RELEASE OF CLAIMS, AND THAT HE/SHE ENTERS INTO IT OF HIS/HER OWN FREE WILL."
(Had to start a new message - can't control paragraphing) Anyway, so what they're asking us to do is sign this piece of paper that states we will never make a claim on them or anyone connected with them EVER again, for any reason. I think this is totally crappy. We've had a lot of landlords, and our experience is that they're not necessarily malicious - they're just unconscious, and they mess up a lot. What if our apartment floods and our stuff is damaged, and the dolts in the office blame us? That's happened to me before. What if somebody in the office starts stalking me and harassing me sexually? That's happened to me before. Being a tenant is one of those situations where the burden of proof is always on you, never on the landlord. I need the option of redress. - Plus, my husband is afraid that the Frontier Security goon is a loose cannon who could retaliate against him for complaining about him. Oh, and we never did receive any assurance from Equity that they even chatted with the guy, or shared our problem. - Anyway, I'm not going to sign this thing, but I was going to ask for y'alls input in case there's anything I'm forgetting. What do you think?
Guys, since I don't have a lawyer I thought I'd run this by you - after our experience, Equity Residential is offering us a whopping $150 off our rent if we sign an acknowledgement form. I just got it today - here's the gist of it: "Each Resident releases and forever discharges Equity Residential Management, L.L.C., the owner of the Community, their affiliated and related entities, and their respective past, present and future officers, directors, trustees, partners, members, attorneys, employees, insurers, agents, successors and assigns ("Released Parties") from and against any and all claims, demands, liabilities, injuries, damages and actions, known or unknown, direct or indirect, which Resident had, might now have, or may have against any of the Released Parties arising out of, relating to or in connection with, directly or indirectly, the Dispute [and Resident's occupancy of the Premises and use of the facilities at the Community.] Additionally, each Resident agrees not to discuss the terms of this Acknowledgment and Release with persons other than the persons residing in the Premises.
EACH RESIDENT ACKNOWLEDGES THAT HE/SHE HAS CAREFULLY READ AND FULLY UNDERSTANDS THE TERMS OF THIS ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND RELEASE, THAT HE/SHE UNDERSTANDS IT INCLUDES A RELEASE OF CLAIMS, AND THAT HE/SHE ENTERS INTO IT OF HIS/HER OWN FREE WILL."
Um...aren't you discussing its terms with us? Me, I'd have a chat with an attorney.
Yes, I am discussing it with you guys! I love this - not only would they take away all future recourse, but would make it illegal for me even to DISCUSS what I've been through with a lawyer or anyone else. I have no plans to sign this thing. I'm just worried about how it's going to affect my relationship with our landlord. - Anyway, yes Jane, I did get in touch with a lawyer who specializes in landlord-tenant issues. He said he would charge me $275 to look at the agreement and advise me on it. But I'm not sure it's worth the cost now - I mean I already know I'm not going to sign this. Someone upthread suggested I have a lawyer add in a clause that would protect us, but at this point it would have to be a whole separate document. I was also considering a suggestion above that I sit down with Equity and the guy from Frontier Security who harassed my husband. I like this idea a lot, and suggested it to my hubby - but he just wants this whole thing to die already. So - I probably won't do anything other than let Equity know I'm not signing their form...I just hope the local management office doesn't start retaliating in weird ways. Just not sure what to expect.
Hi Kitten -
You and your husband sound like my husband and I :) He's the quiet peaceful guy who doesn't like arguments and you're the bulldog who pushes back when pushed.
No matter how hard I try sometimes I just can't get him to step up and fight back. You may be in the same position here and need to let it all just pass.
I understand your position, you do have a LOT to be concerned about with this security guy but there may not be anything you can do going forward without your husband being on board. My husband frustrates me to no end sometimes with his passive personality!
It may work best for you to do nothing and make the landlord worry when you do NOT sign the form nor do you accept the $150 reduction in rent. Sorry we don't have a better solution for you :(
I understand what your husband wants. The problem is, his chosen course of action is not necessarily going to guarantee the result that he wants.
What he wants is for all of this to be "over" -- and by that I assume he means:
1. able to walk to and from work safely;
2. to feel secure in the apartment in terms of the landlord/tenant relationship;
3. to feel secure that this security guard wouldn't come as a private citizen to harass or harm him or you.
But behaving like an ostrich isn't going to create that outcome, and may only create more problems down the track.
The only way to really get these things that I can see are three fold:
1 and 2. make certain that the landlord and security company has *actually* done their due diligence in this instance
i have questions around what happened up the line. once you complained to management, they said they talked to the security company. what was the nature of that conversation? what was stated? what resolution was met between management and security company?
from there, what happened with the individual security guard? did they properly screen and train him? did they provide more training for him after the fact? was he removed from this site? if he was removed, who is his replacement? if he wasn't removed, what assurances do you have that he will follow proper protocols in the future?
I would ask for copies of the communications (if any) about what the process was between these two parties that resolves this issue.
I would be happy with A. the security guard being moved to a different location or B. the security guard getting more training (and/or more obvious uniforms, name tags). I would also want to know what their protocols are, so that -- in the future with any other security persons -- I know what to ask in terms of procedure. Thus, should anyone be confronted by security in the future, you can say "i understand that Security Company protocol is that you immediately state your name and affiliation with the security company before asking questions." Usually, it's enough to snap them out of the aggression because you at least know what is *supposed* to be happening.
Likewise, if the same security guard is on your site, I would like to have a sit-down with him to just introduce yourself and come to a clear understanding of what happened. That the security guard was new or made mistakes or was struggling or something else, and that you can be on friendly terms.
Also, all of this shows the landlord that you are mostly interested in resolving the issue and feeling safe where you are. You aren't interested in money or in law suits, and you won't sign the settlement paperwork (that's what they are offering you, a $150 settlement). Once you feel satisfied that the situation has been properly managed, then the situation can drop.
3. file a police report
In the situation where the person may retaliate, this is the best paper trail that you can have. you can even put in the report that you "fear retaliation" -- if you do actually fear that. if the guy does try to retaliate, then you have a record of violence and it's more likely to get taken care of quickly. If you don't, then it's just going to be a "it happened once" and everyone forgets about it, right? And that could be a BIG problem if he chooses to retaliate. Mostly, in what he'd be arrested for and what not -- but, anyway, it's a good idea.
Look, even I've filed police reports (against another yoga teacher), and ultimately it was the third police report (for harassment) that sent the police to the other person's studio. They came in just before class and asserted that the guy needed to 'cut it out' because what he was doing does constitute as harassment. Seeing as I had the phone records to back it up, etc -- it wasn't hard for them to follow up. I also had affidavits from people who were with me when he harassed me.
Yes, i wanted it to all go away. I wanted to ignore it -- and for the most part I did, emotionally speaking. But filing that police report was great.
Because when the third one came in (with affidavits), the local police officer said that one more and I qualified for a restraining order, and that's what he went in to tell the other teacher. And that is what ultimately would have protected me, you see?
Without the first and second reports, then I wouldn't have been able to get the restraining order so quickly.
As it was, he apologized to the police officers and assured them that he would leave me alone, and ht eofficers came to several yoga classes after that, and hung out in the parking lot of the studio where I worked, and so on -- just for a few weeks as part of their normal work -- and then it ultimately blew over.
But those police reports *were* important. Even if they feel scary, out of porprotion, or whatever. They were *important*.
So true, Zoebird. Thanks so much for these points! I'm going to send the management company another letter asking them to let me know if anything was resolved. GREAT point that we have to be able to know what to do if the same thing happens again! These management folks have given us no reason to think that we're any safer than we were before! Why on earth would we sign away our rights, without any indication (let alone proof) that they even tried to address this? A situation like this is all about prevention of future harm.
To take an example - if some nutjob has it in for me and develops a habit of trying to run me over every morning as I'm walking to work, I just want the behavior to stop. What I DON'T need is $150 every time he breaks another body part. How does that help me? Where on earth are they getting their logic from? LOL
Anyway, thanks so much for everyone's input. I'll let you know what happens!
Yes, it's a bit frustrating Dhiana! I do adore him though! And I want him to be safe! :)
Hi Kitten -
You and your husband sound like my husband and I :) He's the quiet peaceful guy who doesn't like arguments and you're the bulldog who pushes back when pushed.
No matter how hard I try sometimes I just can't get him to step up and fight back. You may be in the same position here and need to let it all just pass.
I understand your position, you do have a LOT to be concerned about with this security guy but there may not be anything you can do going forward without your husband being on board. My husband frustrates me to no end sometimes with his passive personality!
It may work best for you to do nothing and make the landlord worry when you do NOT sign the form nor do you accept the $150 reduction in rent. Sorry we don't have a better solution for you :(
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