Nephew and Gifted Program

[jennipurrr]

Zoe Girl's thread in Employment which is tangentally related, getting certified to teach gifted classes, got me thinking about something that happened recently in my life.

You guys may be familiar with my husband's family at this point. We have a nephew who is seven. He is my BILs child with a woman he didn't marry. DH and I keep in touch with her and right now she has a decent relationship with the family in general. She has had highs and lows throughout the years. She recently got out of an abusive (but thankfully short lived) marriage. She is very intelligent, as is BIL, but due to life stability issues neither are where they could be in their mid 30s. She, however, is graduating college this month and we are very excited for her.

My nephew is EXTREMELY intelligent. I don't say this as just a proud aunt...he suprises me all the time at how bright he is, how extensive his vocabulary is, etc. Especially considering the life he has lived, not a whole lot of stability, I think he is probably off the charts intelligent. This is the age when public schools in my state will test for gifted at the recommendation of a teacher or parent. I mentioned this to his mom in a short message (we exchange fb messages fairly often) and heard NOTHING back. I was a bit sad.

Am I over thinking this? I know I have said all I can say. It is not my business. But, I really feel like if he got in a good curriculum with other really bright kids he could flourish in a way that he might otherwise not be able to. On the other hand we've all seen the parents who just think their average/above average child is super gifted...I know someone who was tested to be in the gifted program year after year at her parents urging, eventually them paying for it out of their own pocket.

I am not sure if she doesn't recognize he is extremely bright, or doesn't care about the gifted program. I feel like she may not really know what that entails, or not want him pigeonholed as a smart kid. I don't know...her and BIL come from a different mind set, so I am not really sure. I hope a teacher identifies him. I think some years down the road it may make a difference. Opinions?

[iris lily]

I can't help but think that this kid needs SOMETHING greatly positive in his life to keep him centered in a lifestyle that is anything but stable. So you aren't wrong to continue to urge testing. It seems especially heartbreaking that his great potential could be hijacked by a non-supportive lifestyle which may teach him to drink and drug. All of us know at least one really bright person who went down that path. Would the right school curriculum have prevented it? Hard to know.

I say this taking at face value your opinion that he's got more than normal smarts.

You've planted a seed, that's all that you can do.

[domestic goddess]

I understand your concerns about your nephew. Having made the suggestion to his mother, though, it is time to back off a bit. She knows her son and may have reasons for making a decision that would keep him in regular clases for longer, or she may have already decided to go ahead with the tsting. If there is instability in his life right now, maybe the added pressur of being in the gifted program will only add to his stress level. My oldest dgd, who is 11, was in the gifted program in her school and was really thriving. During the last half of last year, we had a family event that really stressed her (and us all), and her grades fell to a level where they removed her from the program. Four other children were also removed from the program. all extremely bright and capable kids. At least one was devastated, felt he was worthless. Parents went to talk with school administration about this, as there was no preparation or explanation given to the kids. The gifted program has been ended, and the classes are now extracurricular enrichments. The math class was not affected, because the children had already completed this year's math requirements. So dgd is taking the enrichmetn class, and has learned to live with it, as have we all. This was the capricious (IMHO) decision of a new superintendent, so you never know when or what might happen.
To shorten this long story (although that seems a bit late) perhaps his mom feels that he is not ready for the pressure involved, and that waiting until later would be in his best interest. And she may well be right. Let her graduate and get a job and get a more stable life for them both. Encourage extracurricular activities and activities the two of them can do together. She may see his confidence grow and decide this is right later on. At seven years of age, no one's future is carved in stone. Plant seeds, as Iris Lily said, but let them unfold as they will.
After all that has happened, dgd is set to be recommended for the gifted program at the jr. high next year, assuming the super doesn't axe it altogether. Shis is a member of a DI group (as is the boy who felt "worthless") that has won the regional competition the last two years, and improved their standing at State this year. She has nearly overstepped my limits in math, and is reading at a very high level. The program isn't everything,though it sure helps. She is also a sweet kid, very happy and well-adjusted, considering some of the things she has had to overcome. That doesn't come from a gifted program.

[Gardenarian]

Hi Jennipurr -
What a great aunt you are!

My dd is profoundly gifted (99.99 percentile) and had a very difficult time in school (which is why we are homeschooling.) The differences between dd and her peers were most obvious before age 10 - there's a big gap between kids who are learning their ABCs and one who has read all of Harry Potter. She was being used by her math teacher as a tutor for the other kids. Not a good situation, and she ended up getting bullied.

The public schools' gifted and talented programs are kind of a joke (at least here.) Basically, any kid who does all their homework is admitted. They do not really provide the kind of experiences that gifted kids need. It may be different in your area.

I belong to a parents group for gifted kids, and some of the kids love public school. They like the fact that they can excel and enjoy the social aspects, as well as the regular routine, the teachers, and the sports. It just didn't work for us.

If your nephew is happy in school, that's great. It would be wonderful if he could be involved in some enrichment programs - even a once a week visit to the library. Clubs (such as chess, math, programming, video games, MTG) are very popular.

Kids are very much self-teaching organisms - as long as they have access to materials and ideas, there is no stopping them. DD (13) will be starting college in the fall to get a little formal instruction in the areas that interest her.

Best wishes!

[Zoebird]

I would say that first, you really don't know what's going on and that's ok. The FB message may not have gotten through, or she may have had to leave FB right then and didn't respond back, and then later didn't remember to respond back. So, you never know.

With this, giftedness is approached by families in a lot of different ways. My family chose to not involve me in any gifted programs, kept me in regular school, and supported me outside of school in terms of my interests. Over the years, I had great teachers who knew how to teach gifted students in a mainstream environment, and that was particularly helpful (and may be the case for your nephew).

Beyond that, the best that you can do is support your nephew as best you can, and don't worry too much. As G said, kids are autodidacts -- they will find a way to learn and create. :)

[jennipurrr]

Thanks all for the perspectives! I am not going to push it but I hope she does encourage him in someway. My sentiments are pretty much the same as Iris. BIL is the poster child for underacheivers due to substance issues and I would hate for my nephew to follow the same path.

I sent her a note about graduation today to see if she is walking in the ceremony. Her family lives 12 hours away so not sure if they are coming, but we may drive up (2 hrs for us). DH and I think is important for nephew to see her graduate if she is going to participate. In the past, MIL has made disparaging remarks about her being in college, and I am pretty sure BIL has either a neutral or negative opinion of it also. I would hate that as the worldview that nephew is generally exposed to. She has worked extremely hard...graduated from community college a couple of years ago and has been working and attending a very good state school, on scholarship making good grades in a rigorous degree program.

I hope next year nephew can spend a week with us and go to a fun summer program the local university puts on. They start at age 8. I think that might be a way in the future that we spend good time with him and also encourage an outlet for learning.

[Gardenarian]

Jennipurr - the summer camp sounds perfect. I have read that the single most important factor in academic success is simply visiting a college at a young age. DD has been going to a college camp for several years and loves it!

[larknm]

From personal experience, I think gifted programs are not good for all kids. If there are ongoing or unresolved emotional problems, the gifted kid may not be able to concentrate, follow someone else's lead, or otherwise benefit from classroom learning. Obviously most kids have to go to classroom school even if those conditions apply, but putting expectations on them that are beyond their emotional ability to adjust may make them feel like failures overall, is in "what's wrong with me?"

[Gardenarian]

From personal experience, I think gifted programs are not good for all kids. If there are ongoing or unresolved emotional problems, the gifted kid may not be able to concentrate, follow someone else's lead, or otherwise benefit from classroom learning. Obviously most kids have to go to classroom school even if those conditions apply, but putting expectations on them that are beyond their emotional ability to adjust may make them feel like failures overall, is in "what's wrong with me?"

Many gifted kids have asynchonous development, being highly advanced in one area and behind the curve in another. This can indeed cause problems. There are many "2E" kids (twice exceptional) who have astronomical IQs but learning differences, social difficulties, or autistic spectrum disorders. Some of these kids do well in a mainstream environment, their academic strengths making up for their problems in other areas. I do feel that homeschooling gives every kid the best chance at a happy childhood and a well-rounded education.

[Azure]

I agree you are a wonderful aunt and I think that offering your nephew the chance to go to that summer camp is a good idea.

My oldest DS has tested in the 98th percentile. The thing is though that even though he was bored and complained about his classmates all the time. He resisted all our suggestions to try something new. We offered to check out a math magnet school. Offered the camps. College enrollment. AP classes at another school. It wasn't until he told us he thought he was depressed and we took him to a psychologist and got him started on meds. that he decided on his own that he was ready to take the AP classes. So for the last 1 1/2 years of high school he did go to the AP classes and LOVED them.

In talking with his psych. she told me that we had done the right thing in waiting for him to be ready.

I also have to admit that I did not recognize just how smart the kid was. I have one Developmentally disabled kid. One super smart. And one average/normal. I am soooo confused lol He was just my kid, you know and that's just how he is. He just knows stuff. It wasn't until the testing that I realized just HOW smart he is. So maybe your nephew's mother doesn't quite "get it" yet. As he goes through school it should come up in parent/teacher conferences. And I wonder if maybe when you just matter-of-factly mention to the mom that "Gosh I can't believe DN does that. Most kids his age don't know that kind of stuff" if it would make her start to think about it? Maybe send DN books or games or things to do that challenge him.

Now DS goes to the UofM for computer engineering. He's on the Solar Car Team. He finally feels like he fits in somewhere and he appreciates it all the more because it took him so long to be ready to branch out.

[jennipurrr]

Thanks all...great thoughts...I appreciate them all!

Talked to nephew's mom and she did not end up walking in graduation. She is in a dual bs/masters program where she has been taking first year masters courses in place of her senior level courses. She will graduate next May with the masters degree and wants to walk them. I so so so hope it works out for her. Her course work is in operations management and definitely think her degree(s) can be a ticket to a much more stable life for her and nephew.

Now trying to think of a nice gift for her...hmmm...

[Zoebird]

A good fountain pen. You can find good vintage ones that are easy to refill (and they make refillable ball points, too, which my husband prefers) on EBay and the like.

[artist]

A few thoughts. Some school districts don't have GT programs at all, so this may not even be an offering where she is. Some, don't offer GT programs until middle school. I know my son's school district didn't offer programs until he was in th 4th grade and he is considered "profoundly" gifted. I know my son benifited from being in the GT program from a socal standpoint, but that was about it. Educationally speaking he still was required to compleate the standard curriculum set by the state. I don't think it was vital to his overall school performance or enjoyment.

Truely gifted kids don't get lost because they don't have challenges within the curriculum, they make and find their own challenges because they are driven to master the material. Even within the GT program, my son was designing his own assignments. ie.. when the rest of the kids were learning about magnets and were told to bring in something they think may be magnetic, my son asked if he could build the electro-magnet to test the items with. He always took his assignments to a level well beyond what was expected by the teacher.

Your nephew may be bored in school if not identified and allowed to explore material on a higher level, but I don't believe that GT programing is the end all to a quality education. If anything it was the developmental skills that he learned in the GT program and the psychological support he was offered that made it worth him being a part of it all.