New Zealand Outlaws Justice

[LDAHL]

I don’t know if this is more appropriately a family or politics item, but apparently the New Zealand government bans certain baby names that are “offensive”, too long or resemble an official title. You can’t name your kid Lucifer or Justice, for instance. Is there anywhere else in the world that does that? I know some pretty unfortunately yclept kids, but this seems ridiculously intrusive to me.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/banned-babies-names-list-updated-in-new-zealand-1.1380350

[IshbelRobertson]

I believe Iceland is another that has a similar law.

[Gregg]

I suppose Zhou-Wang is out, too? Silliness. Grossly intrusive silliness.

[Alan]

I have mixed feelings about it. It seems to me to be somewhat cruel to saddle a child with a goofy name, although from what I've read, the New Zealand law doesn't take that into account. It's more about ensuring that names do not cause offense to a reasonable person. I really don't think governments should be in the business of protecting people from being offended. If they're going to, they should at least take into account the people they're offending by doing so.

[Zoe Girl]

Well I named my child and unusual name, and work with kids in a diverse school district. I have have heard reports of twins named OrangeJello and LemonJello (pronounced differently). My child has what I thought was a made up name and is actually the name of an exotic animal in the primate family (not gonna post the name since there are 2 of them we have ever found and I talk about my kids ya know).

I feel it is very important to respect people's names, and I work at remembering names and prouncing them right. We have kids named Justice and Heaven and Jesus quite often here, and some obviously ethnic names and ones that do not translate well from another language (a boy named China and it was pronounced in the French way). I feel that is part of a person's identity and can't imagine setting laws against that choice.

[Tradd]

Jesus is a semi-common name among the Spanish speakers I know. It's origin is the Greek version of the Hebrew Joshua. Are names common in some ethnic traditions going to be banned if they could offend someone?

[LDAHL]

Jesus is a semi-common name among the Spanish speakers I know. It's origin is the Greek version of the Hebrew Joshua. Are names common in some ethnic traditions going to be banned if they could offend someone?

I don't know who gets authorized to decide what is and isn't offensive. It may be a bureaucratic function, or they may have something like those Canadian Human Rights Tribunals you occassionaly see going after stand-up comics or political commentators. You have only to look at this forum to see how difficult it is to honor the sensibilities of any given group.

[iris lilies]

Jesus is a semi-common name among the Spanish speakers I know. It's origin is the Greek version of the Hebrew Joshua. Are names common in some ethnic traditions going to be banned if they could offend someone?

I had that same thought, but are they banning "Jesus" or varients? They are banning Christ. But then Christian and Christina are slight variants and are common Anglo names. I looked up Xavier because I had the idea that this meant Christ, but now I don't think so.

They will twist themselves into pretzels, trying to ban some names. Good luck with that NZ!

[goldensmom]

Even if a government dictates what a parent can name a child legally, the parents can refer to the child however they wish, i.e. nicknames. The problem with naming children unusual, uncommonly spelled names is the problems they will encounter throughout life (no, it's spelled......and pronounced.....). Parents name their children and when the child becomes of age they may change their name if they so choose.

[bae]

I can't imagine the moral reasoning behind allowing a government the power to control what name you call yourself, or your children.

However, if you are a serf, property of the rulers, then sure, it's fine I guess...

[IshbelRobertson]

My name is an anglicised version (but the pronunciation is the same) of the Gaelic name for Isobel. The idea of 'unusual' names depends.. For instance, the Gaelic versions of names might be considered strange by non-Scots!

[Gregg]

I don't know who gets authorized to decide what is and isn't offensive.

Therein lies the rub, 'ey?

Signed, @$*^^ (the poster formerly known as Gregg)

[treehugger]

And then there is this charming family (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/baby-hitler-parents-lose-custody-kids-even-though-judge-says-no-abuse/). In general, I don't agree with these sorts of restrictions, but I'm conflicted about that case.

Kara

[Zoe Girl]

That family, well they do have that right however the business is well within their rights to refuse to write that on a cake. There are businesses that won't display things like a swimsuit Sports Illustrated or require shoes. It is not a government agency saying that a business cannot set their standards. I would refuse that, I refused to speak to a customer for the rest of a transaction for blatantly racist comments but told him at the end why, My manager would have supported me if I told him we didn't want his business.

I noticed two things, one was that they admitted they didn't want their child to grow up to be a killer but don't you name your child after someone you want to emulate? And that 3 people protested with them. Wow, I think of the crowds that turn out across the country in support of racially unfair judgements and it is pretty obvious this family is on their own.

[Gregg]

And then there is this charming family (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/baby-hitler-parents-lose-custody-kids-even-though-judge-says-no-abuse/). In general, I don't agree with these sorts of restrictions, but I'm conflicted about that case.

Kara

My sensibilities label that as obscene, but its not illegal and shouldn't be. Regarding the impact on the kids, it awful any time kids are disadvantaged by the actions of their parents. As far as getting the kids out of the situation I have to believe that if the authorities look hard enough they will find a way to use laws we already have on the books to *protect* the kids (and it looks like that is what they did). We need more sense, not more laws.

[LDAHL]

I can't imagine the moral reasoning behind allowing a government the power to control what name you call yourself, or your children.

However, if you are a serf, property of the rulers, then sure, it's fine I guess...

Probably just easier to issue numbers to keep an inventory of your taxable units.

[Zoebird]

Well I named my child and unusual name, and work with kids in a diverse school district. I have have heard reports of twins named OrangeJello and LemonJello (pronounced differently).

First, it's largely urban legend, that these names are used, but these names are actually Spanish and Italian surnames! The correct spellings are Monjolo, Monjelo, LeMonjolo, LeMonjelo (those are the spanish) and Lemongello, Lemangello and related (italian).
For Orangejello, the spellings are Horangelo or Orangelo -- which means "hour of the angels." It's actually a pretty sweet name if you ask me.

Second, the law really sits down at the point of registry. Most registry offices have a process for this -- whether or not certain names are particularly banned. I would say that, looking at the list, I can see why the registry would automatically reject certain names.

Third, looking at the list, common ethnic names would not be at issue. I doubt that some would even be recognized per se as "problematic."

[Zoebird]

One might also note in all of this falderal that it's elective to register a person/name at all.

If a registry chooses not to accept certain names, then that's the government and no big deal. In general, the people decide how government works (much more so here than in the US from what I've seen), and so I would say that the people here are ok with this law overall.

If a child's name isn't registered by the parents, then the registry assigns a name in order to keep track of -- as so poetically stated -- taxable units. It's also helpful for receiving government benefits. Each child gets $x per hour for schooling, so it's helpful if they are registered.

You can register one name and still call a child by whatever name you like. Friends of ours wanted to name their son Huckleberry Finn. But, they were concerned about how that would go as an adult on, say, business cards. So, they named him Henry Finn LastName on his official documents and paperworks. Yet they call him Huckleberry and Huck just the same.

Thus, this makes his name Henry "Huckleberry" Finn LastName. At school, with friends and family, etc . . . the kid is known as Huck/Huckleberry.

I don't see this as anything to get in a twist about. I have a client whose legal name is Danielle, but goes by Pepper. I have another client whose legal name is Joan, but goes by Mariposa. And, a recent client registered her baby as "Justine" but calls her Justice. Yes, right here in NZ! Just flaunting the law! LOL

[LDAHL]

One might also note in all of this falderal that it's elective to register a person/name at all.

If a registry chooses not to accept certain names, then that's the government and no big deal. In general, the people decide how government works (much more so here than in the US from what I've seen), and so I would say that the people here are ok with this law overall.

If a child's name isn't registered by the parents, then the registry assigns a name in order to keep track of -- as so poetically stated -- taxable units. It's also helpful for receiving government benefits. Each child gets $x per hour for schooling, so it's helpful if they are registered.

You can register one name and still call a child by whatever name you like. Friends of ours wanted to name their son Huckleberry Finn. But, they were concerned about how that would go as an adult on, say, business cards. So, they named him Henry Finn LastName on his official documents and paperworks. Yet they call him Huckleberry and Huck just the same.

Thus, this makes his name Henry "Huckleberry" Finn LastName. At school, with friends and family, etc . . . the kid is known as Huck/Huckleberry.

I don't see this as anything to get in a twist about. I have a client whose legal name is Danielle, but goes by Pepper. I have another client whose legal name is Joan, but goes by Mariposa. And, a recent client registered her baby as "Justine" but calls her Justice. Yes, right here in NZ! Just flaunting the law! LOL

So you either register with the government (subject to various restrictions), or are assigned a government-issue name, and that's what's used for government records and official documents? But no one has a problem with that because they can always assume an alias?

[Spartana]

So you either register with the government (subject to various restrictions), or are assigned a government-issue name, and that's what's used for government records and official documents? But no one has a problem with that because they can always assume an alias? I agree with you in principal however I suppose you could look at it as the government protecting those who can't protect themselves as in restricting certain names (like my former neighbor who legally named their son Boy) that could be harmful to them they their lives. However the name Justice is a lovely name IMO. But agreed that the gov shouldn't be involved unless the name was extremely...well..extreme if at all.

[puglogic]

Certain government agencies can also reject business names as obscene or offensive. The TTB regulates what you can put on the label of an alcoholic beverage (i.e. what a company can name their beers/wines) Aren't those also infringing on someone's rights? I mean, really, shouldn't we all be able to do what we want, when we want?
!Splat!