View Full Version : A Sign of the Times?
When Barack Obama has lost Joe Klein (http://swampland.time.com/2013/05/11/irs-mess/), the New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/05/benghazi-cia-talking-point-edits-white-house.html?mobify=0), Maureen Dowd (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/12/opinion/sunday/dowd-when-myths-collide-in-the-capital.html?_r=0), when CBS News’ Scott Pelley gives speeches (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbs-anchor-we-are-getting-big-stories-wrong-over-and-over-again_722331.html)in horror that mainstream media is getting the big stories wrong over and over again, when arch-liberal Ruth Bader Ginsberg is saying maybe the Court overreached on Roe V. Wade (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130512/DA67G22G0.html), you have to wonder if maybe, just maybe, the tide is finally beginning to turn in this country for the better. Or am I just being too optimistic?
....you have to wonder if maybe, just maybe, the tide is finally beginning to turn in this country for the better. Or am I just being too optimistic?
I think human beings are superb pattern-matching creatures, but that they often see signals in noise that, well, aren't really there.
flowerseverywhere
5-13-13, 11:30am
I am not sure why you referenced the Roe Vs. Wade article of Ginsberg. It seems to me that her opinion in the article is aimed at giving women more rights, more choice and less interference by those who choose to block access to abortion, which I don't believe is your position at all. Her quotes: "That was my concern, that the court had given opponents of access to abortion a target to aim at relentlessly," she told a crowd of students. "... My criticism of Roe is that it seemed to have stopped the momentum that was on the side of change."The ruling is also a disappointment to a degree, Ginsburg said, because it was not argued in weighty terms of advancing women's rights. " "A more restrained judgment would have sent a message while allowing momentum to build at a time when a number of states were expanding abortion rights, she said. She added that it might also have denied opponents the argument that abortion rights resulted from an undemocratic process in the decision by "unelected old men." but whatever. We all have different visions of what would make this country better. Like what Bae said. We see what we want to see, we hear what we want to hear, of course all shaped by what our prejudices and preformed opinions are, not necessarily what people are actually saying.
Scott Pelley gives speeches [/URL]in horror that mainstream media is getting the big stories wrong over and over again
Given mainstream media is there solely to turn a profit, the only time they get the big stories "wrong" is when they lose market share - or advertisers - or other revenue sources.
The Obama administration and his liberal associates have been taking media and political hits ever since he has been elected. If anything I think they are easing up. As long as the masses seem to be appeased with signs of a shift in the economy and a recovery of the housing market, I imagine political issues will cool off in the near future. I guess we will see in the next few years if the conservatives can effectively change their party and come out of the dark ages far enough to mount an effective challenge.
ApatheticNoMore
5-13-13, 2:14pm
when CBS News’ Scott Pelley gives speeches in horror that mainstream media is getting the big stories wrong over and over again
They are bad and getting worse. Oligopoly of a few big corporations running all the media and getting sloppier at it by the day stinks, letting them have that ability was clearly a bad idea. I don't see this turning for the better, more a symbol of how bad things are, and well there's only so far you can go with that (everybody knows the deal is rotten ...), but more people do seek out more sources on the net and so on.
Given mainstream media is there solely to turn a profit, the only time they get the big stories "wrong" is when they lose market share - or advertisers - or other revenue sources.
That's enough of a problem. In order not to be outscooped they rush stories when they don't have adequate information.
That's enough of a problem. In order not to be outscooped they rush stories when they don't have adequate information.
That pretty much sums up the article, and they basically admit that - "It's a hell of a story, but it was dead wrong.".
iris lilies
5-13-13, 9:07pm
Alan, remember the research, just recently put up again on NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/opinion/sunday/conservatives-are-happier-and-extremists-are-happiest-of-all.html?_r=0
excerpt:
"Opinion
Why Conservatives Are Happier Than Liberals
Brock Davis
By ARTHUR C. BROOKS
WHO is happier about life — liberals or conservatives? The answer might seem straightforward. After all, there is an entire academic literature in the social sciences dedicated to showing conservatives as naturally authoritarian, dogmatic, intolerant of ambiguity, fearful of threat and loss, low in self-esteem and uncomfortable with complex modes of thinking. And it was the candidate Barack Obama in 2008 who infamously labeled blue-collar voters “bitter,” as they “cling to guns or religion.” Obviously, liberals must be happier, right?
Wrong. Scholars on both the left and right have studied this question extensively, and have reached a consensus that it is conservatives who possess the happiness edge. Many data sets show this..."
We conservatives are eternally happy, optimistic people whether warranted or not!
I can't really answer that but I do know that speaking of media-CNN is extremely depressing and I can't watch it anymore.I am not denying the bad happening but let's throw in equally some good going on. A little inspiration on a daily level not just the "heroes" segment. Media has way too much influence and I am done.Happiness is after all a choice and lately there is nothing good to watch so maybe I should just quit watching TV, I may just sleep better.
The political tide changes for all kinds of reasons, regardless of the phase of the moon. I have to admit I'd like to see a FISCALLY conservative shift, but I'm not yet optimistic enough to believe either of the major parties is ready to implement that. It might be that the current administration is on the ropes with Benghazi and a few other matters and people outside the Democratic elite are simply posturing themselves for 2014, 2016 and beyond. Recent history would seem to indicate that after eight years of one party ruling its time for a switch.
In order not to be outscooped they rush stories when they don't have adequate information.
+1 Spot on ANM.
We conservatives are eternally happy, optimistic people whether warranted or not!
Yes we are, damnit.
Happiness is after all a choice and lately there is nothing good to watch so maybe I should just quit watching TV, I may just sleep better.
Sylvia, I can recommend this. I did quit. And I do sleep better :D The mainstream media's job is to tell you everything that is likely to get you angry, upset, sad, or other powerful emotions, so you'll keep tuning in and buy their advertisers' products. If what they print/broadcast makes you hate another person because they hold different political beliefs, social leanings, gender orientation or whatever, well, so much the better. We seem to be becoming a nation of haters, fueled by this media frenzy. It's My Side versus Your Side, all day, every day, blah blah blah blah.
There is no avoiding this, not really, but I can turn off the mainstream media and severely limit my exposure to the IV drip of poison, and instead continue the good simple living efforts I do every day. I feel much better about life, I'm still reasonably well informed, and I don't hate anybody. I can sit across the table from someone with very different voting habits, and understand why they feel the way they do (and though it's absolutely no fun, we can actually find common ground.....boooooo!) And, mostly, I sleep very well and life is very good ;)
Maxamillion
5-13-13, 11:38pm
I don't watch the news and am a lot happier for it. If I want to find out what's going on in the world I'll check online sources but I limit my exposure to the constant stream of negativity.
goldensmom
5-14-13, 6:12am
I am optimistic, not necessarily politically but overall optimistic so it spills over into everything.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/16/the-scandals-are-falling-apart/
The scandals that aren't, so it seems.
ApatheticNoMore
5-16-13, 4:01pm
This is the weirdest of the three. There’s no evidence that the DoJ did anything illegal. Most people, in fact, think it was well within its rights to seize the phone records of Associated Press reporters
Uh no. FAIL. Go back to square one. It shouldn't have been able to.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/16/the-scandals-are-falling-apart/
The scandals that aren't, so it seems.
Well there ya go! Ezra Kline says 'Nothing to see here folks, keep moving, keep moving' and that's that. We should be ashamed of ourselves, shouldn't we?
iris lily
5-16-13, 10:43pm
Well there ya go! Ezra Kline says 'Nothing to see here folks, keep moving, keep moving' and that's that. We should be ashamed of ourselves, shouldn't we?
Alan, could we even count the number of column inches devoted to this AP phone tapping scandal in the mainstream media if GW Bush was in the White House!!???? Not possible, an incalculable number. The outcry and noise would have been huge. I can name several current and former posters who would have posted their outrage and indignation here, and the thread would have been 15 pages long.
But this admin, barely a whimper.
It is amusing.
Only because it's what I hear every time I see this thread heading...
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=z56qVA4LjOo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dz56qVA4LjOo
I'm also in the camp that would like a second opinion beyond Ezra Klein's. I agree that there isn't much in the way of potential scandal with the IRS/Tea Party story. In reality its probably business as usual, it just got exposed this time because a few of the players were bumbling idiots.
The scandalous part of the DoJ story isn't so much the actions taken, its that those actions might actually be legal (or at least "not illegal" as the case may be).
Benghazi is the one that might, and should, reach the White House. If ever there was a story where the government is trying to release information in tiny little trickles with the hope the public will grow weary and move on, this is it. Releasing 100 pages of emails out of 25,000? What's in the other 24,900 Mr. President, et al? Who knows if there was a scandal there or not, but either way the US response was completely inept.
I'm also in the camp that would like a second opinion beyond Ezra Klein's. I agree that there isn't much in the way of potential scandal with the IRS/Tea Party story. In reality its probably business as usual, it just got exposed this time because a few of the players were bumbling idiots.
The scandalous part of the DoJ story isn't so much the actions taken, its that those actions might actually be legal (or at least "not illegal" as the case may be).
Benghazi is the one that might, and should, reach the White House. If ever there was a story where the government is trying to release information in tiny little trickles with the hope the public will grow weary and move on, this is it. Releasing 100 pages of emails out of 25,000? What's in the other 24,900 Mr. President, et al? Who knows if there was a scandal there or not, but either way the US response was completely inept.
Gregg, I'm gonna disagree with your first two assertions. We're being misled on the IRS thing, being told that there were 2 or 4 low level employees in one office responsible for the actions even though documentation exists of similar violations from three different offices in Ohio, California and Washington. That coordination of effort cannot exist on the level we're being told is responsible.
There's an excellent opinion piece in today's Wall Street Journal which, I think, gives a much better understanding of how this happened and why it is linked to the very top of this administration. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324767004578487332636180800.html?m od=rss_opinion_main
On the DOJ/AP story, we're being misled again. The National Security excuse we're being fed is not borne out by the facts. http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/some-question-whether-ap-leak-on-al-qaeda-plot-put-us-at-risk/2013/05/15/47003ed4-bd77-11e2-89c9-3be8095fe767_print.html
It appears more and more that this was a political effort designed to ultimately prevent the press from doing it's job and show their sources, including potential whistleblowers, that their days were numbered.
Both examples suggest an effort to subvert the democratic principles our country was founded on and every item in the current scandal cascade shows the taint of politics over governance.
The ensuing witch hunt will probably get to the bottom of this. I see some analogous comparisons to the war on drugs, where the presidents may have encouraged more action, but it was (or is) the law enforcement agencies who have done the targeting of low incomes and minorities.
The extra scrutiny on certain groups was inappropriate, however as yet I've not seen where anyone was unjustly charged or subjected to unfair penalties. On the other hand, as bank robber Willie Lohman responded when asked why he robbed banks, "that's where the money is". What if the supposed political groups, or those claiming a tea party or other label on their tax exempt status were actually significantly more likely to be in violation of United States tax codes.
1260
Good one!
Here's one more: Last week I got a FB post from an old, obviously conservative, high school friend that Obamacare is going to mandate that everyone get microchips implanted. And the comments he received on his post suggest that people (i.e., my otherwise sane and rational friends) are actually believing it and are frightened by it.
ApatheticNoMore
5-17-13, 1:45pm
1260
Conservatives keep asking why I don't care about Benghazi, the IRS or AP controversies. Here it is in a nutshell: For more than 4 years we have been screaming desperately about the abuses of this administration. Freedom of the press and crackdown on whistle blowers, for more than 4 years civil libertarians have been screaming their heads off about the disgraceful treatment of Julian Assange, Bradley Manning, Anonymous, etc. But somehow Wikileaks was seen as not worth defending, only now that it reaches the AP is freedom of the press worth defending. The only people prosecuted for the crimes of our government have been those that dare to expose them. Prosecution of whistle blowers? Tell me something I haven't known about for nearly the entire Obama administration. And where was the conservative opposition? Yes indeed. I do agree this is a new low.
As for "he does not read anti-American books", oh poor fool he should probably try to become better read especially if he's going to hold such a high position of power, I mean it's one thing if joe schmoe is that horribly ill informed but our President is apparently so ill informed that he's never read an anti-American book and this is the ruler of the most powerful country on earth. Maybe he TOO sticks to "my pet goat"!
He did pass the NDAA. He wont' rule out it applies to speech! He does put stays on court decisions in order to keep the NDAA. He does claim to have secret interpretations of secret laws. He does claim "due process" doesn't necessarily include a trail. He does refuse to close Gitmo. There does seem evidence his policies helped cover up the full extent of the BP oil spill. There does seem to have been an assination plot by someone on Occupy. He does keep trying to gut social security. He does claim the right to murder anyone. The kill list is secret. He does keep prosecuting whistleblowers. He does staff the FDA and USDA with Monsanto employees. He does stack his economic team almost exclusively with the vampire squid. He is trying to pass a secret trade agreement that will overrule sovereignty and the ability to pass environmental and financial regulation on any level. He has escalated vastly the number of countries the U.S. is involved in militarily in half-secret wars almost noone knows about. His administration is constantly pushing for the right to spy on everyone all the time.
When you scream long enough and loud enough, nobody cares because you don't own the media and if you have to ask the price of a politician you can't afford one. But I think ultimately everyone knows that much of this does appear to be happening, I just think sometimes people like to pretend it's not for the sake of partisanship and their sanity.
ApatheticNoMore
5-17-13, 1:51pm
Here's one more: Last week I got a FB post from an old, obviously conservative, high school friend that Obamacare is going to mandate that everyone get microchips implanted. And the comments he received on his post suggest that people (i.e., my otherwise sane and rational friends) are actually believing it and are frightened by it.
Maybe they are confusing it with the biometric identification snuck into the immigration bill? I haven't read that bill either though but it does seem the source of much chatter. In the name of rationality it's best to try to keep track of what horrors are actually happening and what are merely false rumors, but that people will believe anything at a certain point, when you can't trust the evening news to tell you what's really going on, is hardly surprising.
Thanks Puglogic! Optimism is the enemy of the media frenzies, it is through fear that people become dependent on the "WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN NEXT!!". I witnessed this from The Weather Channel and Hurricane season forecasting that had my parents on the edge of their seats-to find out that nothing would happen the next morning.So I try to watch happier movies and shows., but there aren't any. there is just "gloom and doom". So I'll just watch the sunset instead. Nature is the best form of entertainment.
Gregg, I'm gonna disagree with your first two assertions. We're being misled on the IRS thing, being told that there were 2 or 4 low level employees in one office responsible for the actions even though documentation exists of similar violations from three different offices in Ohio, California and Washington. That coordination of effort cannot exist on the level we're being told is responsible.
There's an excellent opinion piece in today's Wall Street Journal which, I think, gives a much better understanding of how this happened and why it is linked to the very top of this administration. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324767004578487332636180800.html?m od=rss_opinion_main
Thanks Alan, this article was especially interesting.
Both examples suggest an effort to subvert the democratic principles our country was founded on and every item in the current scandal cascade shows the taint of politics over governance.
Unfortunately that has become business as usual (IMO).
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