View Full Version : Importance of forgiving others
Another thread lead to this question:
"Have you forgiven them their tresspasses?"
And a request for further discussion:
"I am very compelled by this phrase. There are a few people in my life that I need to stop being angry & sometimes bitter towards, and I am very interested in the spiritual principles & practices that you have experienced that were guided by this."
What are your thoughts on forgiveness? Who does it benefit most? How can you move on by forgiving? Do you have to "forgive and forget"?
Have you had a personal experience where you didn't think you could forgive someone but you did? How did you benefit (or not)?
Has there been a spiritual benefit by forgiving someone?
Forgiveness is a funny word. It implies that:
--Someone has done something bad to you - and that 100% of people would agree that it's bad (not often true)
--They had a choice, based on who they were and what they knew at the time, to do this bad thing (also not always true)
--I have the RIGHT to pass these judgments, and then, if I choose, to pass down forgiveness from on high
Rarely are things so black and white as that. But when they are, forgiveness definitely benefits me more than the person I'm forgiving. And I don't feel compelled to make a big fuss out of "I forgive you" - often I say nothing at all. The change is within me.
Some truly godawful things have happened in my life. I have reached a place with most of them where I can say to myself, "My unreasonable expectation has been that X should be a better person, and should've done right by me. I don't need to dwell on that any more. He/she can be whatever kind of person they choose - I will still live a good, happy life over here, while they do whatever they're going to do over there."
Forgiveness is not absolution; it doesn't make it OKAY that someone's done something bad. It doesn't make them suddenly a good person. It also does NOT mean that I want to be anywhere near the person, ick. But I let go of the anger, let them be whatever they're going to be, and get on with the job of being happy. I just don't have time or energy to hold grudges any more. It just creates a sick place inside that drags down my capacity for joy.
That's my thing, anyway. It feels as though it makes me lighter and stronger.
I just don't have time or energy to hold grudges any more. It just creates a sick place inside that drags down my capacity for joy.
Very well put.
Holding onto a feeling (anger/bitterness/hurt) does create a 'sickness' inside. It seems to take up more room in heart and mind.
catherine
5-14-13, 12:03pm
Yes, forgiveness is simply letting go--of the past, of resentment of hurt.
"Forgiveness is me giving up my right to hurt you for hurting me." - Anonymous
Puglogic, I love what you said here:
I have the RIGHT to pass these judgments, and then, if I choose, to pass down forgiveness from on high
Forgiviness isn't naive: it doesn't mean you go back for more. It means you release back to the universe the wrongdoings so that they don't clutter up your soul with attachment to the wrongdoing--lack of forgiveness is another form of attachment--attachment to the sins against you. It only does you good to let them go.
I think it also helps if you try to understand what inside you is attaching itself to the wrongdoer. Is it your ego? Pride? Fear? Self-righteousness? Anger? Frustration? Desire for control? Forgiveness is a chance to understand ourselves as much as others.
I never cease to be amazed at how long people can hold a grudge over real and imagined slights, or how easily they can cut people--especially family--loose over less-than-earthshaking events.
goldensmom
5-14-13, 1:07pm
This is what I’ve learned about forgiveness in my life. NOT forgiving an offense gives the offending person power over me, my thoughts and sometimes my actions, my mental health and sometimes my physical health. It is so much healthier to think on worthwhile things (Phil 4:8), on productive things than a past offense. I’ve heard it said that one can forgive but not forget but in my experience forgiveness leads to forgetting. Forgiving gives me the power back that the offender momentarily took.
Additionally, as a Bible believing Christian, I am commanded to forgive as I have been forgiven.
There's almost a revenge aspect to holding grudges. Like "I'll hurt you just as much as you hurt me." I can't care about that sort of thing any longer. It's such a waste of life, unless one has nothing else worthwhile to think about.
I’ve heard it said that one can forgive but not forget but in my experience forgiveness leads to forgetting.
For me as well. It ceases to be something important enough to think about. It happened, it's done, I'm protecting myself from further hurt NOW, life's gone on, and it just doesn't come to mind very much any more. And what a relief, seriously.
I'm not a bible person but I love that Philippians verse.
ApatheticNoMore
5-14-13, 1:37pm
I never cease to be amazed at how long people can hold a grudge over real and imagined slights, or how easily they can cut people--especially family--loose over less-than-earthshaking events.
+1
I guess the person I come closest to not forgiving is a sibling. It's not over some big whatever that happened in the past but an ongoing thing about how they are and still are in the here and now. Things that happened in the past I just naturally tend to forget. They just naturally pass it's not something I have to make some special effort to forgive. As for childhood stuff, I get angry sometimes over stuff that happened in the past, but I no longer blame the people much, and I feel no obligation to not be angry and so it just comes and goes, I've had plenty of therapy thanks, so whatever. It's just not a big deal to get angry ocassionally about the past or to feel I must forgive when I basically don't blame any people in any strong sense anymore anyway.
Excellent points, and some of each of them seems to touch on how I feel about it.
For me, forgiveness is defined around three key thoughts:
- The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. It is hard for me to forgive if I'm still engaged emotionally.
- I truly believe that, whenever we do something, every single one of us makes the decision that we believe is best at that moment. That is not always a good decision. It could mean reaching for some more crack because that's what our body is screaming for at the moment. Another time, it could also mean reaching out and grabbing that person about to walk off the corner into traffic they don't see on their phone screen. Knowing that someone else is doing what they believe is best for them reminds me that I do the same thing. And it makes it easier to forgive them actions that hurt me.
- Every action we take gives us an opportunity to demonstrate to ourselves and our world Who We Really Are. We can be just as hurtful or abrasive as the person who hurt us or we can choose to be who we really believe us to be -- mature, generous, loving, whatever. One's default thought should be, "What would Love do now?" This still runs into the second point, but these are the choices we get to make all the time.
Gardenarian
5-14-13, 2:43pm
I forgive, but have trouble with the forgetting part.
Also, I have found that I may forgive someone in my mind, but later I will realize that I still have anger in my heart.
Even though I know the anger is only hurtful to me, I have trouble putting out that fire.
Tussiemussies
5-14-13, 3:28pm
I had to forgive for the sake of my well being and totally block out the past. There was no other way I could,manage it and it became actually life-threatening to me. It is a long story that I don't really want to share. I have done it though and ha
Ve gained a new perspective on life!
I forgive, but have trouble with the forgetting part.
That is me as well. I can forget where the car keys are before they hit the counter, but... A work in progress. I've always liked this quote, I believe it was by William H. Walton.
Carrying a grudge is like being stung to death by a single bee.
Like Tussiemussie, I have a painful heavy story which became lighter once I forgave. When I did, it was like a huge mammoth weight was lifted from my shoulders.
I have not forgotten the what or why of the whole story--and I think it's important to remember the stories-- but not to remember or carry the anger. If that remains, I don't think you've truly forgiven. But to remember is not necessarily carrying the bitterness; it's being wise. You learn from these painful events...and remember the lesson.
My sister did some horribly vile and abusive things in the past, to her children, my parents, my wife and I, and herself.
I don't "forgive and forget" the sort of things she willingly did. I'm not "angry" at her, but I will simply never allow her to be near those under my protection again. She is dead to me, I rarely think of her at all except as a cautionary tale, or when my mother is trying to reconcile us, which I've told her in no uncertain terms simply won't happen in this lifetime.
domestic goddess
5-14-13, 7:07pm
While I do believe that it often becomes necessary to "forgive", I don't believe that it is always necessary to "forget". Remembering is protective; it keeps us from getting into a bad situation over and over. At some point we may find it easy or even necessary to forget, but I think that immediately it isn't necessary, and may be harmful. I don't feel the need to go the whole "I forgive you" route, unless the person has specifically asked me for forgiveness. But the change I feel inside really lightens my load. Eventually, I do forgive, but that may be more a function of advancing age than anything else!
ToomuchStuff
5-14-13, 7:48pm
When is it forgiving, and when is it just the "time heals all wounds" thing? If one just lets time wash away the anger and pain, have you forgiven? Guess it might depend on if you think forgiving is for them, for yourself. Although the time wounds can be reopened. (had a friend whose sister was killed years ago, and the killers pastor convinced him to confess. My friends family had been so decimated by it that he wished the killer had never come forward. If your thinking it sounds familiar it is, it made national news)
Forgetting, says you wish to not let the lesson into your gut (see the do you trust your gut thread), or as mentioned, can be strictly to keep ones sanity. Ask any holocaust survivor about forgetting.
My sister did some horribly vile and abusive things in the past, to her children, my parents, my wife and I, and herself.
I don't "forgive and forget" the sort of things she willingly did. I'm not "angry" at her, but I will simply never allow her to be near those under my protection again. She is dead to me, I rarely think of her at all except as a cautionary tale, or when my mother is trying to reconcile us, which I've told her in no uncertain terms simply won't happen in this lifetime.
Hmmm...seems my mindset is more along the lines of that of Bae.
Agree. If it's threatening to your physical or mental health, then boundaries are in order. And you get to decide the definition of boundaries.
The perps won't like it, but if they've crossed the line then they suffer the consequences.
Forgiveness is not absolution; it doesn't make it OKAY that someone's done something bad. It doesn't make them suddenly a good person. It also does NOT mean that I want to be anywhere near the person, ick. But I let go of the anger, let them be whatever they're going to be, and get on with the job of being happy. I just don't have time or energy to hold grudges any more. It just creates a sick place inside that drags down my capacity for joy.
This was spot on for me. Just letting it go.
I also think it's important, though, to look where someone was, and where they are now.You can never change what you've done, but you can change what you do. And I think that should count for something.
To me, forgiveness is something that only can be granted by the one who was harmed (emotionally/physically). It irks me to no end how after one of these mass shootings, various preachers practically trample each other to get before a microphone to declare 'we' forgive them. Well, no, 'we' don't. It's not 'our' place to forgive, and I think it's arrogant and hurtful how fast some want to do this. The only ones allowed to forgive, IMO, are the dead and wounded, and their families. And I'm betting they aren't in such a rush to do that. I wouldn't. I can guarantee you if someone killed my kid, they are not getting forgiveness from me. I might be able to move on, eventually, and even find some happiness in life, but forgiveness? Nope, wouldn't do it. Some things can not be forgiven. In fact, I think it's kind of cruel how we as a society insist, or even demand that people forgive those who have harmed them. It kind of trivializes what they went through and puts the burden on the victim. In some cases, victimizes them twice.
Mind you I'm not talking about little 'hurts' of everyday living, childhood grievances or your friend said something hurtful. I'm talking about major harm, emotionally or physically.
And sometimes, I think forgiving is very important, especially when it's ourselves we need to forgive. I'm thinking of the mother who looked away for just a second and her kid runs into traffic, or the father who lets the son drive to the movies and he has a car accident. Things like this will eat you alive, I've seen it in a friend who, at 60, has had her entire life shaped by the death of her little brother when she was 10. She ran across the street and he followed her and was hit by a car. It wasn't her fault, but because she was supposed to watch him, and her parents kept reminding her of that, she was haunted and traumatized her entire life.
I'm not sure how "forgiveness" feels. I guess the only people I can't forgive are my parents......especially my father. He had the opportunity to nurture a potentially loving family, but instead he filled it with anger, disgust, belittlement. He essentially ruined the family experience for everyone, and caused them to have life-long hang-ups.
I think since they are both dead, I can let more of the anger towards them go.....maybe because I no longer feel vigilant to protect myself from them. Maybe this is really unhealthy of me, but I don't intend to give up being pissed at them. It almost feels good to have that feeling. Maybe somehow, its the only defense I have (or maybe its a rebellion) , and its seems okay to have. I know I don't need a "defense" against them anymore since they're dead..........but as an adult child, its hard to undo certain wiring that your parents put in your brain.
Sorry to ramble. I think if you know how to "forgive", and feel like its necessary for your own well-being, then its fine. Otherwise, I don't think its necessarily a bad things to always carry bad feelings towards someone. Its just part of life, I guess.
P.S............I agree with you Peggy, its very important to forgive yourself for certain things.
catherine
5-15-13, 12:32pm
Here's another take on this. What do you think about people who refuse to apologize?
Regardless of how wiling you are to forgive people who are not asking for forgiveness, what do you think about that? Does it make it harder to forgive?
My DH has this attitude that I find incredibly maddening. He will not say I'm sorry. For anything. He feels one should never apologize. ??? Oh, he might slip and say, "oh, sorry" if he bumps into me in the kitchen, but he made a volunteer cry at church and he will not apologize. Another volunteer called him a bully, and he will not apologize for yelling at him. He does not apologize to me when he does things that I feel he should apologize for, like being late for something important.
He thinks apologizing is a character weakness, I see refusal to apologize as a character flaw. Do I "forgive" him anyway? Sure. Of course. Why not? I admit it's maddening, but I just accept it, because I can't change it.
SteveinMN
5-15-13, 12:50pm
What do you think about people who refuse to apologize?
IMHO, people who refuse to change their minds in the face of new information ("Oh, they didn't accept that comment that in the way I meant it." or "I misjudged the value catherine puts on being punctual.") display a lack of maturity -- a lack of ability to see beyond themselves. Or have had incredibly bad experiences in life in which no one important to them ever apologized for going against their personal values.
It is maddening and you cannot change it (though you may provide enough motivation for him to want to change). Which means the question becomes how much you let this bother you.
I don't have a lot of respect for people who hurt others and then think saying they're sorry for doing so is some kind of character flaw (no offense, Catherine, but that would be really hard for me too)
I think apologizing when one's caused hurt for no good reason is a mark of decent human behavior, and those who can't or won't have something mis-wired in them, a bit on the self-centered side. I spent many years with a man who always justified his hurtful behaviors -- ALWAYS had a reason why it was okay. I used to refer to it as having a chronic case of the Shoulds. "Well, he shouldn't have done that and so he deserved it." "Well, you shouldn't be hurt when I'm late for this important event, it's not the end of the world." Really dismissive of my feelings, and judgmental. That got very tiresome.
On the forgiveness side of things, I think it does get easier to let things go when the person in question passes. My stepmother passed last year and it's suddenly easier for me to let a lot of the old hurts go, now that I'm not having to be constantly diligent about not allowing new ones to happen. That tends to keep the wounds open for a lot of people (me included). When a family member who sexually assaulted me finally died of a terrible brain cancer, it was strangely easier to heal afterwards...
Letting go of a lot of the old stuff had another, pretty amazing effect: I stopped getting sick. I was literally bringing ailments into my life left & right by carrying this righteous anger around. When I got through with being mad, I became physically healthier, everything from tinnitus to crohn's to pancreatitis. Weird but true.
...
Letting go of a lot of the old stuff had another, pretty amazing effect: I stopped getting sick. I was literally bringing ailments into my life left & right by carrying this righteous anger around. When I got through with being mad, I became physically healthier, everything from tinnitus to crohn's to pancreatitis. Weird but true.
This bears repeating. For me, it's not about forgiving, but just letting it go.
To me, forgiveness is something that only can be granted by the one who was harmed (emotionally/physically). It irks me to no end how after one of these mass shootings, various preachers practically trample each other to get before a microphone to declare 'we' forgive them. Well, no, 'we' don't. It's not 'our' place to forgive, and I think it's arrogant and hurtful how fast some want to do this. The only ones allowed to forgive, IMO, are the dead and wounded, and their families. And I'm betting they aren't in such a rush to do that..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angulimala
I really like this story from buddhism about Angulimala . For me one aspect is that he lives a life as a murderer and then meets the buddha and becomes a monk. When he becomes a monk some people do treat him as a monk however many do not and beat him or refuse his begging bowl. When he is so badly beaten that he ends up dying from these injuries he crawls back to the buddha and asks what to do, the buddha says to bear it. Even though he had changed he still had the effects of his actions out there and they will not magically poof away. The people who were not forgiving were simply in their own pain, they may have benefitted from forgiving but they really don't have to.
It may not be a story that connects to everyone, it is valuable to me. I am particularly sensitive at times since my daughter was at a mass shooting and she is allowed her own response to that.
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