linguistics in America

[Blackdog Lin]

I thought this was fascinating. I also didn't know that crawdads even HAD other names. :)


http://www.businessinsider.com/22-maps-that-show-the-deepest-linguistic-conflicts-in-america-2013-6#the-pronunciation-of-caramel-starts-disregarding-vowels-once-you-go-west-of-the-ohio-river-1

[treehugger]

I was just discussing these with coworkers last week; we had a really fun conversation. We had been out to lunch with a new coworker from Malaysia and we were discussing soda vs. pop. Then someone shared the link when we got back to the office. Here (http://www.businessinsider.com/22-maps-that-show-the-deepest-linguistic-conflicts-in-america-2013-6?op=1)is a link that lays them all out on one page.

It's funny, because some of the things, I had to really stop and think how I say them (crawfish, syrup). Others, I distinctly remember learning to say it one way as a child (lawyer, caramel, crayon) and then consciously changing my pronunciation when I got made fun of in elementary or middle school. I was raised in California by a 1st generation American mother (she had German parents) who was born on the east coast, so I think she trained me “wrong” on a lot of words.

I was raised to say “cran” (I know, I know), but that is one that I changed when I got made fun of. I also used to say law-yer, until I self-corrected that to loy-yer. Pretty funny, actually, looking at those maps. I grew up with a lot of non-CA/Western pronunciations, but I “fixed” most of them.


“The City” one is kind of dumb. I have always assumed that is completely regional. It’s whatever large city you live near. So, of course the Bay Area is bright blue on that one (we definitely refer to San Francisco as "the city".


Kara

[fidgiegirl]

Here, "The City" is "The Cities." As in "we're going to go to the Cities this weekend" or "wouldn't it be easier to shop if we lived in the Cities?" So I had to laugh at that one.

I'm a "cran" girl all the way!! :D And I couldn't decide if I say "bin" or "ben" for "been" . . . I grew up right near a transition area on the map.

Brew through gave me a giggle, and I was surprised at the red "sub" map. I would have thought those other words would have showed up more. I wonder if places like Subway have anything to do with that?

This was fun, thanks for sharing.

[catherine]

I just (as in a few moments ago) saw this through a post on Facebook!

I think American dialects are so interesting.. there are so many! Even where I grew up in the Northeast, you have your standard American (which I come pretty close to), but then you have Boston accent, upper New England, New Yawk, New Jersey (when I tell people I'm from New Jersey they always say, "You don't sound like you're from Jersey"). My coworkers from Pennsylvania and Maryland speak different (they say "awn" instead of "on").

I say "soda," "grinder," and my "merry, Mary, and marry" all sound the same. I notice that's changing slightly now that I've been in Jersey for a while, where people will say "La-rry" with a very flat "a" instead of "Lairy" like I typically do.

My brother was brought where I was of course, but now he sounds more upper Midwest than his wife who was raised there. (Aw, geez, he's got that singsongy speech pattern now, which is so endearing). Undoubtedly that upper Midwest speech came from the Scandinavians, right?

My theory about the standard American accent is that we departed from the British accent when the language got mushed up with the Dutch. If you listen to how a person from the Netherlands speaks English, the vowels and the consonants are just like ours. I think we copied their speech patterns rather than the other way around.

So interesting. Thanks for sharing!

[RosieTR]

Yeah, this thing was fun! I clearly remember abandoning "pop" when it became clear I was a Midwestern hick in Massachusettes. And after my stint in TX I still say "y'all" with even the occasional "all y'all". The one that confused me most was "sunshower". This happens all the time here because we often get late-day thunderstorms that clear off, so the setting sun shines under the clouds. But when they asked "what is a term for when the sun shines while it's raining" I thought, "rainbow?" :~)

[nswef]

When I went to college from Pgh. to State College, PA and ran into people from Philadelphia and other areas I learned that pop is not universal.

My roommate and I had a big discussion about orange- ORnj or AHRnj- Pgh. says ORnj and York Pa said AHRnj.

Then there is washing- I always said it as warshing...no longer. It is fascinating and I am sorry to see that so many things have become the same due to TV.
What was also interesting back in 1970 was that the Baltimore MD accent was quite similar to the Pittsburgh accent. I guess due to the same nationalities settling in both places, Italians, Slovakians, ScotchIrish,- made for an interesting mix.

[fidgiegirl]

What is a grinder, anyway?

[catherine]

What is a grinder, anyway?

Haha! Kelli, it's a submarine sandwich, a hero, a wedge (that's what they call it in Westchester NY) etc. I never knew it as anything but a grinder in Connecticut.

[fidgiegirl]

LOL, and that was one of the most red maps! I feel honored to have met someone from one of the teeny specks of area that doesn't say "sub!" ;)

[SteveinMN]

Haha! Kelli, it's a submarine sandwich, a hero, a wedge (that's what they call it in Westchester NY) etc. I never knew it as anything but a grinder in Connecticut.
My ex-wife is from that part of the country and from her I learned that "grinder" (pronounced "grinduh") refers to a heated submarine sandwich. Cold subs were still "subs". Then again, in her part of the country, they didn't drink soda or pop, they drank "tonic" ("tawwwwwnic"). :)

I was born near New York City and had the full Noo Yawk (n.b. not Brooklyn or Bronx) accent until I moved out to the Midwest and got tired of being marked as "not from around here". So I scrubbed it. Now when people find out I grew up in Noo Yawk they're surprised. Mission accomplished, I guess.

[catherine]

My ex-wife is from that part of the country and from her I learned that "grinder" (pronounced "grinduh") refers to a heated submarine sandwich. Cold subs were still "subs". Then again, in her part of the country, they didn't drink soda or pop, they drank "tonic" ("tawwwwwnic"). :)



Maybe your ex-wife was from Northeastern New England (Maine/Boston), judging from the accent? (Grind-uh/ "tawnic"--I'm a "grind-err/soda person) Because where I grew up, grinder was interchangeable with hot or cold subs. My favorite was a ham grinder with shredded lettuce and tomato and oil/vinegar/oregano that I got regularly from a local diner on the shore. Man, that still conjures up awesome memories.

[nswef]

Our hoagies were always hot and the sub was cold. I have yet to find a good hoagie like we had in Pgh. Some come close- but none are just right and I don't know if it is the bread, meat, cheese or shredded lettuce- or the way it was cooked (in a pizza oven) or if it was only that one store that had them.

[SteveinMN]

Maybe your ex-wife was from Northeastern New England (Maine/Boston), judging from the accent?
Bingo. Mass; right by the NH border.


My favorite was a ham grinder with shredded lettuce and tomato and oil/vinegar/oregano that I got regularly from a local diner on the shore. Man, that still conjures up awesome memories.
Same here, though the sandwich of choice was capocollo (spicy ham) and provolone cheese with the fixings. :+1:

I think part of what made them so great was the bread -- for some reason they haven't been able to duplicate the bread here, though they can make great breads of all kinds and even a darn good French bread. Italian bread escapes people here. Dunno why. And that oil/vinegar/oregano dressing too often gets transmogrified here into "Eye-talian dressing" -- which isn't the same thing at all.

[Miss Cellane]

Both my parents were from Boston. Dad was in the military, so we lived all over the US.

I learned quickly that to speak at school using the same words I did at home was a target for teasing.

Tonic= soda or pop
Bubbler=drinking fountain
Frappe=milkshake (order a milkshake in an old-time Boston store and you'll get milk and flavoring, no ice cream)
Bang a uye=make a u-turn (also, bang a leftie, but hang a rightie)
Cellar=basement
Up attic and down cellar=go up to the attic/go down to the basement
Jimmies=sprinkles on your ice cream
Elastic=rubber band
Parlor=living room (mostly used by people over 50)
Dungarees=jeans
Packie=the package store where you buy alcohol

And we did not call our parents' sisters little bugs. We called them "ahnts" not "ants." Would have been more than my life was worth to say "Ant Alice." She would not have been amused.

Everywhere we moved, I had to learn the new jargon. Didn't talk much the first few weeks of school.

[rosarugosa]

Hey Miss Cellane: I STILL say all of those things except I do say jeans rather than dungarees. Everyone around here says subs. Maybe I didn't get as homogenized because I don't watch TV? Or maybe I just talk funny - I was told by one of my professors long ago that I had the most godawful New England accent he had ever heard in his life! :)

[creaker]

Maybe your ex-wife was from Northeastern New England (Maine/Boston), judging from the accent? (Grind-uh/ "tawnic"--I'm a "grind-err/soda person) Because where I grew up, grinder was interchangeable with hot or cold subs. My favorite was a ham grinder with shredded lettuce and tomato and oil/vinegar/oregano that I got regularly from a local diner on the shore. Man, that still conjures up awesome memories.

My father's family was from Worcester, MA (pronounced "woostah"). I've lived in Portsmouth,NH, Maine and Boston, but Worcester was only place I've been to that had tonics and grinders. But I think we all said "wicked".

[Tussiemussies]

This was really fun! I grew up in central NJ and now live in NW NJ and was right on for every word for my area. My mother grew up in PA and I lived there twice and after living there picked up the words and twang. When coming back to NJ I quickly lost it and was right bank to NJ. There is a website dedicated to the language of where I lived called "Coal Speak". Since it used to be a big coal mining area and coal mining still goes on in parts. One thing I do say from there is "I want to straighten up the house" which means to tidy it up. There are also different foods there as in the rest of the country. It would be fun to talk about our experiences with that too...

[herbgeek]

I grew up in Connecticut but went to school in Worcester (only1.5 hrs away). I remember being confused when someone asked me where the bubblah was- had never heard that term. Or when asked if I wanted a tonic and I replied no but I'll have a soda.

[oldhat]

If you're interested in regional variations in American English, check out the Dictionary of American Regional English (http://dare.wisc.edu/). Volume 5, the final volume, was recently published. Most libraries of any size should have a copy in their reference section. Warning: What starts as casual browsing can turn into a major time suck.

[SteveinMN]

If you're interested in regional variations in American English, check out the Dictionary of American Regional English (http://dare.wisc.edu/). Volume 5, the final volume, was recently published. Most libraries of any size should have a copy in their reference section. Warning: What starts as casual browsing can turn into a major time suck.
Amen! Hugely interesting set of books and a way to spend more time than one would think imaginable, especially if one has lived in more than one place in their lifetime.

[nswef]

We red up the house...or redd up the house I am not sure how to spell it.

[IshbelRobertson]

My father's family was from Worcester, MA (pronounced "woostah").

I find this interesting as that's almost how we here in the UK would pronounce it.. We'd say Woost er! Why, then do I hear Americans pronounce the brown sauce as werr sester shy er instead of wooster shirr?!

[nswef]

Oh, we have a county in MD Worcester pronounced Woost-er. Yep, I pronounce the sauce Wer-ster-cher sauce but as a kid it was wer-ster- shy- er. We have a town called Ijamsville pronounced eyems-ville. Just were on vacation in McGaheysville prounounced Ma Gackeys ville.

[jennipurrr]

Ohhh, I saw this the other day and thought it was so interesting!

Until I took the quiz I didn't realize everybody doesn't say "lawwwwyer" haha. I have a thick southern accent, the kind where strangers in other places will want to me to "say it again" just to hear the words. I haven't heard "the devil beating his wife" in a long time but I did know what it means.

[catherine]

I was just recalling a story from when my DH was an advertising space salesman, with a territory that stretched along the East Coast. He had a client, Beel Smith. He had spoken to Beel several times on the telephone and finally arranged a sales call to meet him in person. So he took the trip down South and met him for a lunch date. Once they got settled at the table, DH started with the small talk.

"Beel is an unusual name," DH said to him. "Is it short for anything?"

The no-nonsense Southern businessman gave DH a funny look and then simply answered, "Weelliam."

[Rosemary]

Thanks for the laugh, Catherine!

I grew up in northern VA which is as close to a neutral accent as anywhere I've lived. Southern VA has many local accents (Richmond is different from Roanoke, which is different from extreme southern VA, different from extreme SW VA). So I don't consider myself to have an accent. But the question is, does everyone think they don't have an accent?

When I lived in North Carolina I saw a gorgeous flower at the farmers market. I asked what it is and she responded with something that sounded utterly foreign to me. I said I had never heard of it but it was beautiful and she looked at me with disgust. I later realized that she had said "dahlia" with a strong southern accent.

There is a town in the Blue Ridge Mountains in VA with the appropriate name of Buena Vista. However it is not pronounced anything like "bwayna veesta." In localese it is "byoona vista." My parents lived southwest of that area for about 15 years and every time I visited I was marked as an outsider as soon as I spoke to anyone.

My mom grew up saying "crick" for creek (for which I pronounce the 'ee'). She was from northern PA/southern NY and some of her pronunciations were impacted by her great-grandparents who were PA Dutch and lived on a mountaintop in the area. She still says "pe CAN" while I say "pe KAHN" for pecan and she says "almond" in a way that I've never heard anywhere else.

There are two midwesternisms that always get me around here. One is the pronunciation of "bag." Looks simple enough - just 3 letters, right? Somehow that 'a' comes out as 'e' as in "let" when spoken by many from the north midwest. So it sounds like "beg."

The other is a grammatical structure that distracts me so much that I lose track of what the person is saying while I process it. Say, for instance, that someone from this region had a sink full of dirty dishes. I would say, "Those dishes need to be washed" or "Those dishes need washing." But the local shortcut, which I've never heard anywhere else, would be to say, "Those dishes need washed."

[catherine]

The other is a grammatical structure that distracts me so much that I lose track of what the person is saying while I process it. Say, for instance, that someone from this region had a sink full of dirty dishes. I would say, "Those dishes need to be washed" or "Those dishes need washing." But the local shortcut, which I've never heard anywhere else, would be to say, "Those dishes need washed."

My Scottish MIL used to say "those dishes need washed" also! I always thought that was weird. She was born and raised in Scotland. I believe there are a lot of Scots that settled in the NC/VA area so maybe that phrasing originated in Scotland and was transplanted in that area of the country

[Rosemary]

Oops, should have clarified - I live in MN now, and "Those dishes need washed" I've heard here but nowhere else in the country.

[IshbelRobertson]

those dishes need washed' is still common parlance in Scotland. I still hear 'redd up the kitchen/bathroom/table', but more common amongst older folk.

[nswef]

I grew up in Pgh and never realized that need washed was odd...until I interviewed for a job and was corrected! I never use it now! Around here ( MD) they say "ink pen" for pen because when they say it it sounds like pin...so it needs to be different from safety pin or straight pin.

Catherine you made me laugh with the Beel. This is a fun thread.

[SteveinMN]

does everyone think they don't have an accent?
When I was growing up in Lawn Guyland I was aware of a kind of "Standard American English" -- what you heard from the national news anchors and others. Of course, we differentiated between Brooklyn accents, Bronx accents, Boston accents, Texas accents, Virginia accents (in New York the last two are reduced to "southern").... But when everyone around you sounds like you, no, you don't think you have an accent.


There is a town in the Blue Ridge Mountains in VA with the appropriate name of Buena Vista. However it is not pronounced anything like "bwayna veesta." In localese it is "byoona vista." My parents lived southwest of that area for about 15 years and every time I visited I was marked as an outsider as soon as I spoke to anyone.
I've discovered that to be a great marker for who is a local and who is not. Minnesota, for example, Anglicizes the French words Nicollet as "Nick-lit" and Mille Lacs as "Mill Lax". It's Monte-VID-ee-O, not Monte-vid-EY-o. Minnesotans also can watch non-locals stumble over place names like Shakopee and Lake Winnibigoshish ("Lake Winnie").


There are two midwesternisms that always get me around here. One is the pronunciation of "bag." Looks simple enough - just 3 letters, right? Somehow that 'a' comes out as 'e' as in "let" when spoken by many from the north midwest. So it sounds like "beg."
One feature of the local dialect is elongation of the long-a sound. I hear "again" pronounced as "a-GAYN" more here than I've heard anywhere outside of Canada or Great Britain. But Minnesotans also severely shorten connecting vowels: "really" is most often pronounced "rilly"; "sure" usually is "sher". So a shortened long-a sounds like e and "bag" becomes "beg". Then again, most Minnesotans I know don't call it a bag, they call it a sack (sack of groceries, sack of concrete, sack of -- well, nevermind!:|()

Fascinating stuff. The OP's linked map pointed out a couple of my New York regionalisms I didn't realize had persisted.

[treehugger]

...So he took the trip down South and met him for a lunch date. Once they got settled at the table, DH started with the small talk.

"Beel is an unusual name," DH said to him. "Is it short for anything?"

The no-nonsense Southern businessman gave DH a funny look and then simply answered, "Weelliam."

That is an awesome story! All of these regional (sometimes micro-regional!) differences are so fascinating. More fun to have these kinds of conversations in person, though, at least for me. I want to *hear* all of these words. I love that I work with people who grew up all over the US and the world, to hear all the differences.

Kara

[Spartana]

Haha! Kelli, it's a submarine sandwich, a hero, a wedge (that's what they call it in Westchester NY) etc. I never knew it as anything but a grinder in Connecticut.
A hoagie, a po' boy... I lived all over the country almost all my life but, like, ya know, pretty much speak Californian dude. Here we chill with a cold one and a sub - veggie with avacodo of course :-)