View Full Version : Okay, now Catherine's got me thinking--what would YOU do if you were me? (long)
Here’s mysituation:
71 years old (today), DH 69 years old
Income: I bring in $1,243/mo SSI +$1,400/mo possibly unstable income / DH brings in $2,101/mo SSI + $1,763 /mopart-time income (last mo of his job and health insurance will be June 2014)/DH pension now and forever to be $239/mo from previous job. Thus our total monthly income is $6,746 andafter June 2014 will be $4,983.
Assets: $7,842 in no-interest emergency fund at local credit union we trust; SantaFe home appraised at $232,000 last year when we refinanced at 3.934% for a$150,000 30-year loan on which we owe $148,538 ($805 monthly). It’s a 600 sf old adobe house with thirteensolar modules on “Heroin Alley” (we don’t sell or use). Walking distance to groceries, low-cost healthcenters, senior center, Salvation Army meal place and good library. 2007 Prius works well, 67,000 miles, interiortorn up. DH’s 2002 Chevy S-10 truck ingood condition, 114,000 miles.
Asset or Liability? sixteen wooded acres in mountains an hour’s drive away with (240 sf livingspace) strawbale cabin with adobe exterior and three solar panels and well,offgrid. We’ve thinned the acre aroundthe cabin but that was before so much drought (predicted to last ten years) andwildfire. Beautiful, well-kept cabin withsmall barn, corrals, poultry yards. Eight miles from nearest village on the only road, taking 20-30 minutesto drive. Could be very hard/impossibleto sell (a realtor’s impression before the drought started), and much land inthese mountains is burning up. Our cabinis insured for fire. Otherwise thesurrounding area is wild, remote, gorgeous state forest and national wilderness. Wepaid $160,000 for the land in 2004, before the drought . We love it and it noticeably improves our andour four large, sometimes loud dogs’ and the African Grey parrot’s mental andphysical health to be there, but it may not be safe to go up there for much ofany summer. Too dry now to grow flowersor vegetables. Can be inaccessible inparts of winter. No mortgage on mountainland or cabin.
Liabilities: $148,538 30-year mortgage on house in town. My functioning has slowed (including spinabifida occulta, Lyme disease inadequately treated, and currently two years intopolymyalgia rheumatica (women living in high altitudes get this—our Santa Feand mountain altitudes are 7,000 feet). DH appears to have COPD. We sleepabout twelve hours a day. I need alternative health care our insurance doesn’tcover (using it a lot years ago got us into our financial mess to begin with).
Net Worth: as of right now, $247,580; after June 2014, $96,949. We calculate my current monthly living expensesat $10,674 yearly; DH’s at $35,356 (he pays the ongoing bills) for a total of$46,030. I can send the actual lists if it would help.
Other Factors: No close friends New Mexico—like nobody we could ask to be executors ofwills. No cell phones, ipads, etc., onlylaptop and landline. Computerunreliable, we’d replace it now if not putting everything into emergency fund. Two dogs with old-age health problems; theyounger two are four and six years old. No good, safe place to exercise them near Santa Fe—so we go daily tofairly unsafe place. This exercise is essential to us and the dogs,though much better when we’re at our place in the mountains.
Santa Fe hasgreat air quality, the mountains even better (when not smoky). We are somewhat vulnerable in the mountains(no gun, out-of-range if had a cell phone but we do have satellite for computercontact); in Santa Fe we have a utility pole fifteen feet from our house, andit has twenty utility lines running through it (EMFs, environmentally sensitivefamily members.
We have paidoff debts quickly: used truck and new Priusin about three year; have $200,000 life insurance for me; none for DH if I diefirst.
I read inDan Buettner’s THRIVE (2011) that a U.S. household needs $5,000 income/mo to behappy. We expect to have income $4,983/moafter June 2014, but insurance cost, continuing mortgage, etc. We have been an increasingly happy family,even given the financial difficulties. All have serious health problems. We all love, respect, and enjoy eachother every day and are creative about having fun. We have no close relatives. So far several thousand dollars a month gointo emergency fund (we’ve had it for two months, since paying off HELOC), sohave one year to keep that up, then our contributions will decrease. I go toexcellent free groups about aging and dying. We would be up for traveling wherever, ifanywhere, is near enough to be realistic, or could move to another state, townor part of Santa Fe. Another part oftown is cheaper, but without close-by necessary places our current house givesus access to as long as we can walk. Wedo not pay much for entertainment (Netflix), food or clothing. But we’d like less anxiety and a greatersense of freedom if possible in terms of travel or these things.
Hey, larknm, coincidentally I just posted my update on my "what would you do" thread.
Can I ask, do you have any specific doubts or concerns about what you are currently doing? In other words, why are you asking for input on this? You stated that you're pretty happy where you are, but have some anxiety. What specifically are you anxious about? Not being able to do what you want to do? Being afraid of outliving your money?
fidgiegirl
6-15-13, 1:26pm
My first thought is to sell both places and move to an area that will be better for your health and your sanity, and perhaps even to rent once you are there. What that area would be, however, I do not know. It's doesn't seem like you could just sell one of the houses you have now and live in the other. Neither one meets your needs, health-wise, safety-wise, and "thriving"-wise (I mean being a place that won't just meet your needs, but in which you can thrive).
I also understand the love for pets, but perhaps consider the approach my parents are planning (I'll believe it when I see it, though) - my mom calls it "thinning the herd." They just had to put one dog down and they do not plan to get another one in her place. That brings them down from four dogs to three. One of the others is elderly as well and once he's gone I hope they will cap the dog population at two from there on out. They have other animals as well - five mini horses and some barn cats. I just hope the approach is the same for all the animals. They are not getting rid of them, but trying not to get replacement pets when any die. They derive immense joy from their pets, and I fully expect them to have pets until they die themselves. But hey, we've covered all this in the "what about your pets when you die" thread! Sorry to get a little off track here!
So back to your financial situation, I have two questions:
- Where DO you have friends and/or family, and is it important to you to be near to those people?
- When you picture your perfect home, what do you see? What does the house itself look like? How about the community? How do you feel in it?
fidgiegirl
6-15-13, 1:27pm
Hey, larknm, coincidentally I just posted my update on my "what would you do" thread.
Can I ask, do you have any specific doubts or concerns about what you are currently doing? In other words, why are you asking for input on this? You stated that you're pretty happy where you are, but have some anxiety. What specifically are you anxious about? Not being able to do what you want to do? Being afraid of outliving your money?
+1
I was cross-posting with catherine but she put it much better. I grabbed on to the housing aspect, but maybe that's not what's foremost in your mind. It would help to know this.
I agree that I think you should start researching another location where you could buy for much less money, a place that combines what you like/need about both houses. Renting would be fine, too.
But, yes, what are your specific goals/concerns?
Your expenses seem high - is a large chunk of that health insurance or health costs? And that $5000/month number I think is ludicrous. (Not a comment towards you - I know you indicate the source that is from.) Happiness is what you make it. I think the bare minimum for average people to be happy is a lot lower than that.
Could you live on just the SSI and DH's pension? - about $3583 by my calculation. If you didn't have a mortgage? If you were able to sell both properties, buying another for cash seems feasible.
I'm also not understanding why you indicate your networth will decrease when DH is done working? I see your networth as value of the cabin property (an unknown until sold) plus equity in your primary residence plus any emergency savings you've accumulated. Not sure why the change in income would affect your net worth. Am I missing something?
rodeosweetheart
6-15-13, 3:42pm
I'm also not understanding why you indicate your networth will decrease when DH is done working? I see your networth as value of the cabin property (an unknown until sold) plus equity in your primary residence plus any emergency savings you've accumulated. Not sure why the change in income would affect your net worth. Am I missing something?
I wondered about this, too.
For a while we owned two properties, and it as as you described--great things about each, but neither alone was quite right.
It sounds like the living situation may not suit you so well going forward, but perhaps you are happier in the country--am I reading that right? We are facing same conundrum now, as we like some aspects of country life and some of walkable city life. Country will probably win out, but I did found a county where they have dial a ride--your country place sounds a bit remote going forward?
If I were in your shoes, I would probably seek to be rid of a mortgage, but I am extremely, neurotically mortgage-averse.
It sounds like you have good income going forward, which is awesome.
Santa Fe real estate seems hot right now--my brother and his wife are there and could not even find a rental they liked, took them 6 month--is selling both properties an option? They both have very likeable features to them, and I am sure there is a market for those features.
Would a different climate, something like Tennessee or Arkansas, suit your health conditions better? The altitude must be hard on your husband with COPD? Would you lose income if you moved?
What is making you anxious--you mention safety of current neighbrhood--that is significant and up your stress level, which makes chronic health issues worse. Or is it worry about money going forward? Can you be any more specific (or is it too woven together.)
I think both props might be more saleable than realtor stated.
I would sell everything and move to a less expensive area that you think you would like and would still have everything you need. Probably rent for awhile in order to gage housing needs and costs vs. income - as well as to see how much I like the new area. Become debt free and you should be able to live on both (even one) of your SSI income streams. You absolutely do not need $5000/month to be happy. I live on far, far, far, far less then that and am pretty darn happy in my life.
I would suggest that you think about your wants/needs for 5 years ahead and make decisions for that time as it will take that long to sort through all the changes necessary to be comfortable and settled.
That said, I would sell and move to an area with one location that suits your needs much better than what two properties are supplying now.
Tough decisions to be made but make sure that you are both on the same page before you get too far. DH and I made the mistake of thinking that we knew what the other had set as priorities and we were shocked at what we thought we each wanted 5 years ahead.
lark, a few thoughts:
Dan Buettner's $5000/month assessment is bogus. Spartana mentioned being very happy on much less per month than that. DW and I have been living on about half of that amount and we are not living anywhere close to the bone, either. I think as long as income exceeds planned outgo, you're doing okay. That $5000/month sounds like the million everyone is supposed to have before they retire.
I, too, would look into selling both properties and buying another one. The mountain property sounds quite restorative -- except for the dangers posed by fire (can those be mitigated economically?) and being out of reach of immediate help when you're not prepared to live that life. The house in town has the drawback of danger, too, though you would know better than us if the neighborhood is still in decline or is turning around slowly. There should be a property in SF or elsewhere that leaves you near useful services without being in "the sticks" or "the hood".
Would you consider going to one car? Even paid-off cars still need service and fuel and insurance. Right now, given the pets, you'd probably keep the Prius. Or you might consider selling both vehicles to get something which will carry what you need to 80% of the time and will still be economical to keep. Will DH need the truck once he retires?
iris lilies
6-15-13, 8:44pm
lark, a few thoughts:
There should be a property in SF or elsewhere that leaves you near useful services without being in "the sticks" or "the hood".
Santa Fe is very expensive, I wouldn't bet that she will get much cheaper and be in a decent area.
I would get out of SF, charming though it is.
In terms of an executor for your wills, just go with your lawyer. We did. Keeps down the politics, and the lawyer takes his/her fees from the estate before handing over the remainder. my accountant is there to co-execute, to make sure money is handled properly in the process -- the lawyer and accountant hold each other accountable on fees. :)
I agree with Steve in terms of general assessment. Those were my initial thoughts as well, in addition to not bringing in new pets when old ones pass away, as fidgie mentions.
I think that your ideal spot would be something in a restorative location that has access to amenities -- and ostensibly you want something not to hot, not too cold, not too high, not too low, and at a good cost of living.
(we live happily on half of $5k/mo for a family of three, no pets, in a high COL area too -- so it's definitely do able! :) )
Re: $5,000 a month to be happy.
Say what?
My projected budget for this YEAR was $5,000. (Probably going to come in closer to $6,500 in reality)
More money wouldn't make me any happier because happiness is a choice I'm making. I live indoors and have food. Beyond that it's all in how I look at it.
It helps that I have no pets, no car, no addictions and no hobbies that cost money. I live primarily on the internet and am writing a book. I'm also travelling the world by having people from all over the world come stay with me via www.airbnb.com.
$5,000 a month, bah.
Re: $5,000 a month to be happy.
Say what?
My projected budget for this YEAR was $5,000. (Probably going to come in closer to $6,500 in reality)
More money wouldn't make me any happier because happiness is a choice I'm making. I live indoors and have food. Beyond that it's all in how I look at it.
It helps that I have no pets, no car, no addictions and no hobbies that cost money. I live primarily on the internet and am writing a book. I'm also travelling the world by having people from all over the world come stay with me via www.airbnb.com.
$5,000 a month, bah.
That is interesting, Reader. How does that work for personal security?
Do you mean security as far as guests? They pay airbnb by credit card. I tell myself if they were set to commit a crime they would go somewhere where they could pay by something untraceable. There's a security deposit - the host decides how much. So far they have all been pleasant unintrusive people. It's certainly safer than living in the homeless camp in the woods, which is the comparison I use.
My first guest was here to do a two month internship as a midwife. Then I had a retired couple, she from Montreal and he from France. He spoke no English but repaired, fixed and assembled everything in the condo. Then I had someone from Sweden here for one month to get his private pilot's license. Then two college girls from Thailand through the State Department's Travel and Work program. They worked three months at a restaurant. Now a young couple from Belarus. Next month I'm also renting the second bedroom to a 60 year old woman from Switzerland. It's hard to find a place to stay for less than the standard 6 month lease and for longer than most people can afford a hotel. Students and travelers seem to be my niche.
You can decline any guest and never have to give a reason. In my listing for the second bedroom I specified female, as we will be sharing the bath. When I stagger down the hall to the bathroom in the middle of the night I'm more comfortable running into a woman than a man. The master suite is self contained so I'll rent that to a man or a couple. I've made the dining room into a kind of bedroom/office for me to use when the second bedroom is rented. The guests have a profile and a picture on airbnb. I feel like I can get a sense of them from that.
Re: $5,000 a month to be happy.
Say what?
My projected budget for this YEAR was $5,000. (Probably going to come in closer to $6,500 in reality)
More money wouldn't make me any happier because happiness is a choice I'm making. I live indoors and have food. Beyond that it's all in how I look at it.
It helps that I have no pets, no car, no addictions and no hobbies that cost money. I live primarily on the internet and am writing a book. I'm also travelling the world by having people from all over the world come stay with me via www.airbnb.com.
$5,000 a month, bah.Yep this is me too. Need approx $500 to $800/month to meet all my basic living expenses (mortgage and debt free with shared house with one other person). My monthly income is approx. $1500/month but that generally gets saved or spent on fun stuff or for any house or car etc... emergencies that come up. I'm happy and fulfilled.
I made $5000 a month for half a year once when I was still working. I suppose some people might feel they need that much in retirement, but I certainly don't. I could get by on maybe a third of that if I worked at it.
Thanks, reader, that was informative.
try2bfrugal
6-17-13, 1:26pm
I don't understand why your net worth would go down in 2014?
Basically, you are house poor, your assets are not diversified and your full retirement expenses exceed your retirement outgo. Your expenses are $57K, your non working income will be $39K. With the health issues you mentioned, I'd suggest having a plan for a time when there will be no earned income. That means cutting your budget by 18K a year at least. The survivor income when your household is down to one income will be even less. So you need a plan for a two income, full retirement, non working household and a one person, full retirement non-working household where your expenses are less than your outgo.
The good news is that $39K supports a middle class, retired lifestyle in the U.S. for two people. Your income isn't the issue, it is your expenses. You have to decrease your housing costs. I don't see your income / net worth as enough to comfortably support two houses.
Compare your budget to the Consumer Expenditure Survey of what other households your age spend and identify the main areas where yours is high.
http://www.bls.gov/cex/csxstnd.htm
If it were me, I'd probably sell both houses, move some place better for my health with a lower cost of living with low property taxes where I could pay cash for a house or pay inexpensive rent. If you did that you would eliminate your mortgage and you could invest what was left over to bring in some extra income.
I would read the book All Your Worth by Elizabeth Warren and her daughter for ideas on how to better align your housing and other major expenses with your retirement income.
And I agree with other on not getting any more pets.
Responses to all (I can’t figure outhow to do that thing of intermingling comments and responses):
First,thanks for so much serious attention to what I wrote.
catherine: Yes, I have specific doubts about what we’re doing, and yes these areabout not being able to do what I want to do, and outliving our money. These track back to two things I can thinkof: insecurity about what’s going tohappen with Social Security, whatever party comes into the administration. Our income will be almost entirely from SSIonce DH retires. The other is that weused to be able to travel, which we loved—but when I recently asked myrheumatologist if my health would improve if we moved to a lower altitude, hesaid, “I can’t be sure, but it’s possible. Take a trip to a lower altitude place and see.” We can’t afford this or any trip, and thatmay not change. We’d like to even seethe great special rock and land formations in New Mexico, and so far haven’tbeen able to, and it may never happen. Or the red rocks of Utah. Wetried travel DVDs as an alternative but good as they are, they didn’t do thetrick.
Fidgie: We do think about selling both places and going somewhereelse—we’d like to check out Mexico for this, but expensive to travel to doit. “Thrive” is the word, allright. We do have the same plan as yourparents for our animals. The two youngerones may outlive us, the part most likely will, but the women who drew up ourwill years ago want her.
We have nofamily anywhere we’re close to. I/wehave close friends in Austin, easternCanada countryside, New York City, Rhinebeck, NY. Austin DH says is too hot for him, noteligible to move to Canada as far as I can tell, NYC too expensive, andRhinebeck is where I got Lyme.
It would begreat to be near these people otherwise, but it may be we do better at adistance from most of them and stay in touch by email, as we do.
Picturing aperfect home, the house is tiny on lots of wooded land with creekwater we canhear from the house. Little trafficnearby and sun for me and snow for DH. We could also pretty easily like a one-season place—always in the 60’sor 70’s. The community would benon-mainstream in re color, gayness, disability and so on. The prices for house and land low. We’ve off and on dreamed of a VW-Westfalia type camper to live in so we could travel lightly, butuntil they make those with mileage like my Prius (average 50-60 mpg), no, forpersonal and ecological reasons. Beautyis essential to us in terms of the place.
Kestra: I would like a suggestion, like how would you go aboutresearching other places? I read aboutthem, but can’t tell how it would feel to be there. One goal is safety, which means a place whereclimate change isn’t roiling up catastrophic weather events, and where thereare few skinhead, etc. groups. I seethese are negative. I’d like to be nearwater (rivers or ocean) if that were safe—I read places by oceans are not. We like an IINSPIRING place. I lived on the east coast most of my adultlife and the only two things that gave me the majesty the NM mountains do wereseeing was Miz on Broadway and a waterfall near Ithaca, NY. I missed natural grandeur and the scent ofclear, piney mornings most days for decades. The more I write right now the more I wonder about NH area or PacificNW. Good libraries are important—DH is amedical librarian, and for me the SF Public Lib will order anything they don’thave by interlibrary loan. Good doctors
I too thinkour expenses are high. I do think wecould live on our social security and DH’s pension if social security werestable. I’ve love to buy another placefor cash. I think I don’t know what networth means—I was assuming it included income.
Rodeosweetheart: Yeah, we love the outdoors and would at least need access to it—unmanicuredoutdoors—I never understood the beauty of any of the east coast except NorthCarolina. I would LOVE to have nomortgage—I too am mortgage-phobic, in fact debt-phobic altogether.
I would liketo think both properties are saleable, but fear trying to sell the mountainone, with the wildfires, would be like trying to sell someone property that’sunderwater. I think of moving to Hawaii or Pacific NY, but those seems unsafeclimate now, plus way more expensive than here.
Spartana: The plan you suggest is perfect (except it’s hard to rent with 4 big,sometimes barky dogs). I doubt we couldrent for less than our mortgage. But Ifeel freedom when I read your plan. Iknow I don’t like flat land and no water—I grew up in Dallas and really hatedit for those and other reasons. It’s theantithesis of our kind of place, right up there with Houston and Shamrock, TX.
Razz: Whenever wethink where we want to be in 5 years, it comes up mostly negatives—we don’twant this or that problem we’ve had living here or other places. But I agree with you it’s worth workingon. One advantage to staying in SF is wehave a working knowledge of the place, and that took a long time to acquire. But there’s something wrong with my attitudethat I can’t feel drawn enough to a place I think of that it seems like it’seither unrealistic financially or I can’t get the sense of it.
SteveinMN: I’m relieved to hear you and Spartana and others say $5,000is way more than people need and that you all live on half of that.
Theneighborhood in SF is slowly cleaning up—but the drug trade is really engrainedas two warring families’ incomes, so may never go away, plus many of the lawenforcement people are friends and relatives of the dealers.
I would loveto go to one car, which we could if we sold the mountain property—a Prius islow to the ground and can’t get up the mountain when it’s real icy or muddy,whereas the truck can.
Iris lilies: I bet you and Steve are right, you’re beginning to make me think wemight find another place. Part of myproblem I’m pretty sure is when we were growing up in Dallas, the one goodthing a year was our vacation in these mountains. There’s also an issue that DH and I arebisexual, with differences that primarily gay man and primarily lesbian womancan live with, but not just anywhere.
Zoebird: We’ve never had the money for a lawyer or accountant, thoughcan get those through senior services maybe.
You are absolutely right about our ideal spot.
Reader99: Your income/outgo are great—what kind of place do you live in (part ofcountry, type of town)? You’ve reallymade it work—how much figuring did it take and how did you know how to makethis happen?
Spartana and JaneV: I really appreciate your and reader99’s specificity about how much youlive on and how you do it.
Try2bfrugal: Yes, we are house poor. I sometimes try to think how can we live so frugally in most basic ways,yet be so financially messed up. I thinkit’s mainly the expenses of 2 houses, 2 vehicles and 4 dogs. You make it really clear, are really practical at thinking through someoneelse’s dilemma (mine).
All of you: Studying your words helps wake up my in-a-rut brain cells—youare great friends for me.
fidgiegirl
6-18-13, 7:14pm
That's quite a list, but I think it's important to be specific in order get what you want. DH and I felt "picky" when house shopping, and we gave up only one item on our list and are very happy. We also ranked what was most important. In the end, after finding that all the houses we looked at were out of our price range and that price ranked/weighted higher than, say, having a bathroom on the first floor, we went for our current house and are very happy.
Picturing aperfect home, the house is tiny on lots of wooded land with creekwater we canhear from the house. Little trafficnearby and sun for me and snow for DH. We could also pretty easily like a one-season place—always in the 60’sor 70’s. The community would be non-mainstream in re color, gayness, disability and so on. The prices for house and land low. We’ve off and on dreamed of a VW-Westfalia type camper to live in so we could travel lightly, butuntil they make those with mileage like my Prius (average 50-60 mpg), no, forpersonal and ecological reasons. Beautyis essential to us in terms of the place.
The closest place I can think of would be the rural Rochester area in MN, but probably wouldn't get marks for diversity and it may not be what you have in mind for weather. It's glorious right now, but last winter was a bear, for sure. But it has the Mayo clinic, homes are more affordable there than in the Twin Cities, plenty of nature. The Twin Cities would get higher marks for diversity, equally high marks for medical services, libraries, but is less affordable. There's still lots of water! Minneapolis is the City of Lakes. We get the occasional tornado or blizzard but I feel a lot safer here natural-disaster-wise than in the places that are having earthquakes, wildfires, mega-tornadoes, etc. But those winters . . .
We also visited San Diego and loved it. But I don't think it is cheap! I think with that list it may be hard to find it all in one place AND at a low price, but I would be interested to hear others' ideas on this.
Nobody has really raised the age question. Aren't there considerations to be made for where to place money at this phase of life? I mean, I always hear people talk about not wanting to be vulnerable to losing all the estate to medical bills or the nursing home. Especially as most likely there will be a surviving spouse at some point. So . . . if I were looking at a list like that, and taking into account age and health concerns, I think renting would be a great way to get it and have it be affordable and not be tied down in any one place if one or the other's health takes a turn (a big property is a lot to keep up with). But I don't know if that's wise in the estate-planning sense because then you'd have the proceeds of two homes just sitting there in your bank account or investments. Plus there would be a capital gains tax after 5 years if the money is not used to purchase another home, right? Anyone know about this kind of thing? Maybe it's worth checking out with a financial planner.
It's not rock-bottom cheap to live here, but I can't say enough good things about the Pacific Northwest. It has it all: glorious nature, water, coastline, views abound; excellent library systems that regularly win awards on a national level; liberal politics (on the left side of the Cascades) and vibrant GLBT communities; environmental concern; mild climate; top-quality thrift stores; all kinds of good eats from food carts to haute cuisine; outstanding animal rescue and outreach organizations; better-than-average schools and some outstanding colleges; state of the art medical care in Seattle; legal medical marijuana; a few sports teams for people who like that kind of thing; easy access to mountains and oceans; and a refreshing lack of posturing and pretense. You could do worse than look into it.
ETA: If you're looking for a drier climate (for COPD), you could try the east side of the mountains up here, but then you'd lose a lot of what I listed above.
try2bfrugal
6-18-13, 7:56pm
Try2bfrugal: Yes, we are house poor. I sometimes try to think how can we live so frugally in most basic ways,yet be so financially messed up. I thinkit’s mainly the expenses of 2 houses, 2 vehicles and 4 dogs.
This is really covered well in the All Your Worth book. You are spending too much on your income on the big things in life so there isn't enough left over for the little things.
Once you get your housing costs under control and maybe go to one car, you should have money for travel and entertainment. Your income is not too different from average households for your age group in the Consumer Expenditure Surveys. It is just your expenses that are out of whack.
Have you considered Oregon for retirement? We are thinking about moving there after our kids are launched. Housing seems pretty reasonable there.
try2bfrugal
6-18-13, 8:02pm
So . . . if I were looking at a list like that, and taking into account age and health concerns, I think renting would be a great way to get it and have it be affordable and not be tied down in any one place if one or the other's health takes a turn (a big property is a lot to keep up with).
Actually owning a home is a usually an exempt asset under Medicaid for the independent spouse when the other needs care, so owning a home would generally be an advantage. Plus they have all the pets, so renting may not be an option.
Getting an executor is easy: just ask someone. Seriously, you can go with any number of professionals who do it -- and usually for a small fee (either up front or from the estate).
For moving, I suggest that you figure out where you might want to be, go and visit those places, and then make a decision. Yes, it's expensive.
One way or another you are "sucking it up." YOu're either sucking up the situation that you live in (for what you do and don't like about it), or you're "sucking up" the expense and difficulty of moving.
Make peace either way, and you're much better off.
iris lilies
6-18-13, 9:03pm
OP--agreed, there is no way you can rent with 4 big dogs. Well, other than the ghetto neighborhoods near me, and you don't want that.
Surely you can think of places in New Mexico: Las Cruces (has the mountains surrounding it) or Silver City to try. They won't have the clean, crisp air, though.
Anything in NM has to have less expensive real estate than Santa Fe. (Been to that library before several times--frankly, NM library services are not all that great so if you are content with them then most places you go will be fine in library service.) I am also looking at real estate in New Hampshire and while that has some draw for me (libertarian politics) the real estate taxes are generally horrific, and I would imagine that medical services are not rife, it is not a highly populous state. But still NH have some pretty and charming places to live and hardly any large cities.
The one thing that stands out: you simply cannot maintain two properties, the cabin has to go.
Here's a little cabin in Sandy, Oregon--between Portland and Mt. Hood. Probably not the most convenient location, but there is a stream:
http://www.johnlscott.com/PropertyDetail.aspx?GroupID=289630596&ListingID=300868696&CMID=-1&Sort=0&RTR=30&LI=45
fidgiegirl
6-18-13, 9:34pm
Oh my gosh, yes, I totally forgot about the dogs re: renting. A challenge, for sure.
iris lilies
6-18-13, 9:59pm
Here's a little cabin in Sandy, Oregon--between Portland and Mt. Hood. Probably not the most convenient location, but there is a stream:
http://www.johnlscott.com/PropertyDetail.aspx?GroupID=289630596&ListingID=300868696&CMID=-1&Sort=0&RTR=30&LI=45
sweet, that is.
try2bfrugal
6-18-13, 10:04pm
Here's a little cabin in Sandy, Oregon--between Portland and Mt. Hood. Probably not the most convenient location, but there is a stream:
http://www.johnlscott.com/PropertyDetail.aspx?GroupID=289630596&ListingID=300868696&CMID=-1&Sort=0&RTR=30&LI=45
If you bought a place like this, your finance could change something like this -
Sell cabin = 160 - 8 realtor fees = 152K net
Sell house - 232 -148 mortgage - 12 realtor fees = 72K net
Net combined proceeds = 224 - 120 Oregon cabin = 104K to invest
104K invested in an immediate annuity = $536 a month for your ages
You would save $805 a month on the mortgage and gain $536 from the annuity which would improve your cash flow by $16,092 a year.
It should cost less to insure and maintain one 120K house. If that savings adds up to 2K a year, then combined with the $16K above you've got your budget down by 18K right there, which I think brings you in line with your two income Social Security. If your household went down to one person, the remaining spouse might have to get a room mate and or get a reverse mortgage or find some other way to make up the Social Security income difference. There are places you can get houses for under 100K so that is another option. too.
Plus in Oregon you could have a garden and grow some of your own food and maybe save another 1K or so a year from that.
I am not necessarily recommending Oregon or an annuity, but just used these to illustrate one way to lower your expenses by about a third and get them more in line with average households' expenses for your age group. You'd have to check into other factors like property taxes, sales taxes and health care costs, too, when evaluating where to move.
iris lilies
6-18-13, 10:50pm
I think a $120,000 house is reasonable for retirement. I look in that range and up to $150,000 for daydreaming about moving.
Ok now that we are talking retirement houses, here is my latest obsession at $100k: It is Victorian, in a tiny Midwestern touristy village on the train and on the river:
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/606-Washington-St_Hermann_MO_65041_M87966-52570?row=37
rodeosweetheart
6-19-13, 7:52am
Both of these houses are adorable--particularly like that deck on the Sandy house and access to river, Jane.
Both seem like great retirement houses. Midwest Victorian might be more walkable to things? Oregon seems extremely progressive socially (my son lives there)--really nice laid back and accepting of everyone. This is important--we lmoved to upstate NY for 10 years because of a cheap, beautiful farm house and no one talked to us for 9 1/2 years--literally. It wasn't until we were leaving that people got friendly. Would NH be that way, I wonder?
My ancestors lived in Vermont and that is my dream place, but too far from my kids and too expensive, so we are looking back in Midwest to be closer to the new grandbaby and my sons who live in Midwest. Portland too expensive, and only 1 is out there, or that would def. be in the running.
I totally get you on the "grandeur" thing in terms of views, etc. Considering your age, interests, health concerns, and needs, my recommendation is to not go out into the sticks. I would recommend a small city.
Small cities have good medical amenities in general, as well as having all of the other sorts of things that you may need (such as libraries for work or pleasure). They tend to have a strong "community spirit" feeling, while also being big enough that you don't feel the "small town" smothering that sometimes happens.
And, in terms of cost of living, you might consider "less popular" small cities such as Cheyenne, Wyoming (http://www.cheyenne.org/) or Billing, Montana (http://www.visitbillings.com). It's a colder climate, but it is dry. Warm summers (up to 100 on occasion in Billing; hitting about 95 on the hot days in Cheyenne), and cold winters but not a lot of snow (cold/dry). Good, strong cities with thriving health care industries, arts, etc. One of those two places was Bicycle Magazines "best place to bike" because of all of the trails that they created for that. Pretty cool.
I did a quick google search for real estate, and found some 1/4 acre spots with 2 bedroom houses for $110k-ish. To have a third bedroom, prices jumped up $40-50k, and if it were just me and my husband -- or heck, as it is just the three of us -- a two bedroom place would be fine and dandy. And save me $40-50k? Yes please!
Also, these cities are located in really beautiful natural environments with lots of open space around them, so a quick trip out of town will take you to some beautiful locations. That being said Cheyenne is apparently very "green" with a green belt that connects it's trails and neighborhoods, making it named by the national parks service as "trail town USA." probably a great place to walk/run some great big dogs, right?
Anyway, check out the wikipedia pages, and then go visit *in winter*. It's always a good idea to see a place 'at it's worst' and see whether or not you like it.
For my money, I bet you'd like Billings. Surrounded by mountains and a river runs through it.
SteveinMN
6-19-13, 10:09am
We’ve off and on dreamed of a VW-Westfalia type camper to live in so we could travel lightly, butuntil they make those with mileage like my Prius (average 50-60 mpg), no, forpersonal and ecological reasons.
IMHO, I see nixing the camper-van for poor fuel mileage as an unnecessarily-imposed restriction. If you lived in the camper, you would no longer be heating or lighting an entire house. The carbon footprint of repairing/replacing components would be no worse and -- likely -- much better than replacing parts of a house. If you were to subtract your gas/electric and home maintenance bills from the fuel cost of a camper-van, I think you'd see the economics change. A lot. Now, four dogs in a camper-van -- well, now you're violating the laws of physics! :)
I would liketo think both properties are saleable, but fear trying to sell the mountainone, with the wildfires, would be like trying to sell someone property that’sunderwater.
There are people foolish enough willing to rebuild houses on the beaches that Superstorm Sandy destroyed. There still are homes being built in the California canyons despite a long history of wildfires. Let whoever buys the place worry about possible wildfires. That's not a risk you need to assume and protect against yourself.
I have to second Zoebird's advice to "suck it up" one way or another. Certainly I understand wanting to live someplace that helps you live more healthfully and that meets at least some of your esthetic and emotional wishes. I absolutely understand that such a place needs to fit a budget.
But, as the old saying goes, you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. If you feel you can't get a good sense of a place without visiting it -- but you're unwilling to spend the money to visit -- you're not going to make much progress. Without prioritizing the must-haves (maybe climate, a place where you can keep four big dogs, absolute budget limit) and that which can be given up (the backyard brook, a "view", low rate of natural disasters, every form of outdoors within a short distance), it will be very difficult to find a place. Nevermind that any place you move to will have some drawback you won't know about until you're there for a while. You and your partner will have to suck it up at some point to swallow what you can and move on. Or quit wasting the energy expended on the idea of moving.
The cabin is a sunk cost, correct? No mortgage; only taxes and maintenance? Sell it for whatever you reasonably can and use that money to achieve bigger goals. That will let you sell the truck, too. Realize that you may have to add a little temporary debt until things right themselves.
I know Kelli mentioned Rochester, Minnesota, but I'd put in a plug for looking at Duluth, Minnesota. Water (Lake Superior and some rivers), hilly/"mountainous" regions, a university town (and the biggest town for miles around), very reasonable housing costs, no earthquake fault lines and not in "Tornado Alley", not terribly humid (lots of houses don't have air conditioning or even window screens)and a progressive health-care system and politics that are fairly progressive for being in outstate Minnesota. Yes, the winter can be harsh, but it's not so bad if you dress properly for it or if you don't have to be out and about in it.
Lots of ideas in this thread; I hope they can help you narrow down the choices.
Oregon doesn't have a sales tax, FWIW.
I can sympathize with "needing" a view of some kind. I'm looking out on a forest (aka my back yard) as I type. Not a wall or window (or house, though there is one beyond the trees) in sight.
shadowmoss
6-19-13, 2:14pm
Buy a Class C motorhome with the proceeds of selling the cabin, use sit to to travel someplace part of the year. It only burns fuel while you drive it, so drive it somewhere and park. You can live on BLM lands for free as long as you move a bit every 14 days. Check the blogs in my right panel and there are several folks living full time in RVs. You could have the best of both worlds that way. Or, sell the house and do the same, using the cabin as the home base.
My blog: http://shadowmoss.blogspot.com/ Check out especiall RVSue, RV Boondocking, Old Fat Man, Billy Bob. All of them are full-timing. You hear the warts as well as the good parts. If you don't need the full Class C and you have the truck that could pull it, especially check out RVSue with her Casita travel trailer, although with the dogs it could be 'interesting' in that small a place.
OP--agreed, there is no way you can rent with 4 big dogs. Well, other than the ghetto neighborhoods near me, and you don't want that.
.Or she can come on out to Big Bear Lake, CA (my old 'hood) where there are tons of cabin rentals - most furnished - that allow multiple dogs and have fenced in yards. Prices range from $500/month and up - avergae around $750 - $1,000 for a 2 bedroom place. Here's what $1500/month gets you - nice views too :-)! http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/43866-Mendocino_Big-Bear_CA_92315_M23512-06707 Although this is WAY too tony and big for me, a little single story (no stairs!!) on a nice lot that allows dogs can be rented pretty cheap. However, having had several dogs myself I would probably buy a little inexpensive place with a yard rather then rent long term. City website: www.bigbear.com www.citybigbearlake.com
Actually, since the OP doesn't need to work, looking at various resort areas to purchase or rent a home is a good idea. They often have lots of city-like amenities and activities located all within a small town that is usually beautiful.
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