older homes/smaller homes

[Zoe Girl]

Okay we all wax poetic here about cute small homes and some of us like older homes and yet I am frustrated and DONE!!!

The plumber got here tonight, I am really glad I didn't try to get work covered because of course we had a lot of things going on. However he needs to get something from the plumber store on Monday morning. I can be home by 1:00, it won't make that much difference in our house if I get the sink fixed at 8 am or 1 pm honestly. What does make a difference is a weekend of not being able to cook.

So at just under 3 years in this older home we have had
* major water drip causing water bills of $100 a month (typical is $25-35) and months to get a plumber in
* annual cleaning out of main drain that the landlord won't do preventably so we wait until the sink and shower back up to call, a few days where I go to the gym to exercise and get a shower or deal with water up to my ankles
* The stove/oven being out for almost 2 weeks, the repair person was a relative here after hours of his regular job plus the stove was just the start of a larger electrical issue, either way it was a job that took a long time
* annual plumbing issues such as this one where we have a week and a half with no sink drainage so I barely cook and when I do I wash dishes and dump water on the compost pile
* over a year without a clothes washer and much longer without a dryer. We actually washed clothes by hand for a whole summer and then went to the laundromat in the winter. This was my personal washer breaking not the old house but I had to save up to repair it.

I know it is an older house but we are looking at more than once a year I cannot use a basic appliance or sink for a week or 2. Give me my old house back (wwwaaah) with huge spaces and a large kitchen and few broken things or windows that freeze and then swelter, with repair people I called myself so they came quickly and I paid more and had things fixed quickly, and neighbors I knew in case of a need,

Gotta look at the flip side, each time I am more prepared for society to break down because I am already able to cook and wash everything in the back yard :)

[poetry_writer]

Okay we all wax poetic here about cute small homes and some of us like older homes and yet I am frustrated and DONE!!!

The plumber got here tonight, I am really glad I didn't try to get work covered because of course we had a lot of things going on. However he needs to get something from the plumber store on Monday morning. I can be home by 1:00, it won't make that much difference in our house if I get the sink fixed at 8 am or 1 pm honestly. What does make a difference is a weekend of not being able to cook.

So at just under 3 years in this older home we have had
* major water drip causing water bills of $100 a month (typical is $25-35) and months to get a plumber in
* annual cleaning out of main drain that the landlord won't do preventably so we wait until the sink and shower back up to call, a few days where I go to the gym to exercise and get a shower or deal with water up to my ankles
* The stove/oven being out for almost 2 weeks, the repair person was a relative here after hours of his regular job plus the stove was just the start of a larger electrical issue, either way it was a job that took a long time
* annual plumbing issues such as this one where we have a week and a half with no sink drainage so I barely cook and when I do I wash dishes and dump water on the compost pile
* over a year without a clothes washer and much longer without a dryer. We actually washed clothes by hand for a whole summer and then went to the laundromat in the winter. This was my personal washer breaking not the old house but I had to save up to repair it.

I know it is an older house but we are looking at more than once a year I cannot use a basic appliance or sink for a week or 2. Give me my old house back (wwwaaah) with huge spaces and a large kitchen and few broken things or windows that freeze and then swelter, with repair people I called myself so they came quickly and I paid more and had things fixed quickly, and neighbors I knew in case of a need,

Gotta look at the flip side, each time I am more prepared for society to break down because I am already able to cook and wash everything in the back yard :)

You make some good points about older/smaller homes. I have looked at older mobile homes, but having lived in them before i remember the repair bills......I looked at very small places to live this week.........I could only take my bed. Very tiny really isnt that fun, to me. I live in one room now and its a challenge to find space to put the basics. I think if i owned the land and had my own tiny space, i would like it. But apartments or rent rooms, yuk....

[SteveinMN]

Okay we all wax poetic here about cute small homes and some of us like older homes and yet I am frustrated and DONE!!!
Oh, not all of us wax poetic. Smaller homes may be charming and all that. But taking care of one -- especially if it was not built well to start with or not maintained properly -- well, charm wears off pretty darn quick. Give me a modern house any day of the week.

My sympathies, ZG, for everything you've had to go through, exacerbated (it seems) by a landlord who doesn't seem to care much. My mom's place (which I own and rent to her) was built almost 100 years ago and has had its share of, shall we say, unusual problems. Fixing them has been a story of multiple contractor trips and far more money than I planned to spend. :( Hang in there!

[Zoe Girl]

Ooh at least I am not on the hook for major repairs. I would like so many smaller jobs done around here so that it is nicer and more comfortable to live, but some of the rentals in Denver are real dumps after all The landlord is used to having renters that are section 8 or otherwise do not take care of the place. The next door neighbors told me about hauling out large bags worth of dirty diapers that went over the fence into their yard with the previous tenants. Beyond gross. So now which came first, having lower income renters or not taking care of the place which does not attract higher income renters? Honestly this place is better than when I moved in considering the state of the yard and the house. The yard is rather stalled due to the drought but the indoors is well taken care of.

I did get an amount I can spend on putting in drought resistant plants in the front yard this year, she is pretty cool about that. I also want a door replaced in the basement, if I can check the price and it is under $100 I bet I can do it. But I cannot do plumbing. I thought at least with the pipe cleaning that she knows has to be done every year we would be able to just plan on doing it every November or something.

So we are just getting loads of microwavable foods, again.

[dmc]

Interesting, Ive never lived in a used house, and I'm 56. The longest Ive ever lived in a house is 14 years, we have lived 12 years in our current home. The only repairs Ive ever had to worry about was a water heater in our old house and a dishwasher in our current home. We will probably stay here a few more years, but when the time comes will most likely have a new home built. Its nice picking out what you want and everything being new.

I looked at an older historic home in town and thought about making an offer. But changed my mind when I looked at how much work would be involved in keeping it up. Some people love to work on their houses, not me.

[early morning]

Well, I've worked with a lot of people who had new houses built, and many of them were sorely disappointed by the repairs that they had to make far too early. Me, I love old houses. Give me a house with soul, any day of the week. We've lived in our 1850's big old house for 25 years now, and were in another old one for 10 yrs before that. They have their quirks, for sure, but they are solid and built to last hundreds of years - at least ours is. And its frame, not brick. We've replaced one window when we had the bathroom tub walls replaced and insulated from a 30 yr old porch to bathroom conversion. We've replaced a water heater, put in a sump pit and pump, and wired the entire house. We've replaced a little of the plumbing and put in a new septic tank, but now we're being forced to hook up to a new sewer line. Oh, we had hail damage and had to replace the roof. We do have a leak that just won't quit, but that's really our only frustration. The only new home I've ever lived in was the one my parents built by hand, from a store they bought and tore down for building materials. It was very well built also! Sadly, it was torn down to make room for an interstate bypass. Zoe girl, I do understand your frustration, though! A poorly maintained home, old or new, is going to have problems.

Smaller homes I love to look at, and pretend I could live there, but I am not the sort who wants to go buy something new when I need it. I want to have it stockpiled. I could live in a smaller place, but I don't really WANT to, and if I don't HAVE to, I won't. :~)

[sweetana3]

Well, new houses have issue. Across the street the new townhouses (less than 3 years) have had issues with rot and replaced all the bay window wood, issues with leaking fireplace vents with guys on the roof (same thing two blocks away and all were replaced), roof leaks, etc. No idea what has gone on inside.

We bought a 1997 built house and knew it was cheaply built but the location was perfect for work. We also had issues with rot and poor quality laminate floors. Fixing the rot and siding issues a little at a time and replaced the roof. Luckily no plumbing issues. I am not "house proud" so cosmetic issues don't bother me. We have had to replace most of the appliances one at a time. Also replaced the furnace due to a safety issue.

Best house ever was 1939 and even with the quirky problems, this house will be standing 200 years from now. Even with this house we replaced the huge furnace for a much more efficient one and redid the roof. Never got around to the steel windows but the next owner did them.

There are rarely any homes that are not money pits. Mom has it best in an apartment that is built of concrete with fantastic management and maintenance.

[dmc]

Yes many new homes have been slapped together, just like a lot of the older homes were. Many of the older homes have simple fallen down by now or had many upgrades and repairs over the years. There were also many old homes that were well built, just like many new homes are, you just have to spend more money and specify what you want.

[SteveinMN]

Yes many new homes have been slapped together, just like a lot of the older homes were.
I think that's the real truth here. Just as some cars are better built than others (and some cars cost what houses used to cost not too long ago!). And, as with cars, the difference after many years of ownership isn't so much the initial quality as the way it has been maintained. Even a Lexus will be junk if it's not serviced when it needs to be.

I think the other thing I see is that not every survivor home is charming. DW thinks my mom's place is "cute" (on general principle, not out of decoration). I don't see it -- I see a bunch of too-small rooms and a scary basement. But I admit that I look for different things out of living quarters. Maybe the house would be more charming if I didn't have to see (thankfully, unused) knob-and-tube wiring and deal with water pipes so old that they are occluding from the hard water we have here...

[Zoe Girl]

I think this house could be really nice with proper upkeep. It was a model home in the 50's and has good lines to it, nice hardwood that could use a slight refinish, the kitchen cabinets are original and I have only had issues with one drawer. The last renters or multiple past renters have treated it badly and then the work done on it has not been the best. I would love to do so many things properly here. One is that everyone needs to have a giant refrigerator right! Ack it ruins the entire flow of the kitchen. Sometimes I can't stand it. So a dishwasher was put in where the smaller original fridge was and it has cheap countertop on it, as compared to the scratched but quaint original countertop. The dishwasher is an eyesore. Then the small space where a table and 2 chairs could be is taken up by the fridge.

The hugest eyesore is the basement. The remodel is okay, the carpet is nice, but the walls are painted and rough. I want to add texture to it and repaint so badly, there are visible screws and seams. With some of the bug issues we have had it is not just unsightly but a concern. The door that goes to the laundry room was chewed up by a previous dog so the bottom 12 inches is gone and the edge mauled. I almost have her talked into letting me replace this. The downstairs bathroom with shower was done badly and the tile at the bottom of the shower is always black, the grout mismatched, etc.

I would be very upset if a newer house was falling apart, I have a friend who has issues with basic things like doorknobs in her newer house, not okay. I think this house could be great but needs the proper care for it's age without trying to cheap everything.

[jp1]

I've been reading "A Carpenter's Life: as told by houses" by Larry Haun. It's not, strictly speaking, a book about carpentry. However, each chapter focuses on house building at different points in time, with everything from the 40's onward being houses he has worked on. In the chapter about 1950's tract houses (he and his brother were contractors in LA that found a niche doing framing for the builders) he talks about the shift in construction from everyone being a generalist and how building a house went from being a slow process to a very rapid one as they figured out ways to save time since they were being paid by the job, not the hour. His opinion is that they weren't doing lower quality work, but were just speeding things up through tricks such as measuring and chalk-lining the whole floor of the house, then doing all the base framing, then building all the walls flat on the floor, then putting them up. No loss of quality, just much more efficient.

[Miss Cellane]

Zoe, I think the real problem is your landlord, not the house.

Any house is going to need maintenance. Even new houses need some degree of preventive maintenance.

I'm currently renting half of a two-family home that was built in 1900. I've been here two years. I've had

1) a leaking dishwasher. Landlord sent her handyman to fix it the day after I emailed her.
2) broken dishwasher. Because the counters in the kitchen were built before 1950, they are too low for a modern dishwasher to fit under. I waited two weeks while landlord and her handyman came up with a solution--raise the counter. They did such a good job that you can't see that the counter was raised 2 inches. And the kitchen sink is now at a much more convenient height for washing dishes. No problem washing dishes for two weeks--I consider a dishwasher a luxury, not a necessity. And the landlord took $50 off my rent for the month to make up for the inconvenience.
3) leaky kitchen sink. Direct result of #2. Handyman just had to come back and tighten something up.
4) New outside lights. The landlord wanted to install new outside motion-sensitive lights to light up the doorways and driveway. We were all without power for 4 hours while that was going on.

My kitchen is a bit odd, having clearly been remodeled by a few different people over the years. But it works better than many kitchens I've had, and I really would not like having to deal with the original coal stove.

Mind you, over the years things have been updated. The original cast iron radiators have been changed to baseboard ones. The original gas lights were converted to electric, and then the knob and tube electric has been converted to more modern wiring with circuit breakers and lots of outlets in every room. Clearly, throughout most of the life of this house, someone has been maintaining it properly.

Stuff breaks in older homes. But the main reason you are without a sink is not the sink so much as the landlord's delay in getting it repaired, and probably his/her willingness to pay enough to get it fixed properly, once and for all.

But the main reason you are having problems is your landlord, not the house. You are not the person delaying getting a leak fixed for months. You are not the person avoiding preventive maintenance on the drains. The landlord is.

[Zoe Girl]

But the main reason you are having problems is your landlord, not the house. You are not the person delaying getting a leak fixed for months. You are not the person avoiding preventive maintenance on the drains. The landlord is.

Thank you, that is my opinion as well. I have gone long periods without a dishwasher, and the washing machine was totally me. I have a higher end front loader and to get it fixed very well cost over $200, yet I wanted to repair it rather than haul it out and get a cheaper used one.

I have never had her offer to take money off my rent. I recalled an issue with the power line going into the house. We have some high winds and the bracket was loose. So the young man who fixed the stove and subsequent electrical issues took care of that and it is very solid now. There are tree branches that need to be trimmed soon around the power line and I don't want to call and go through the process of her telling me to contact the city, the city saying she needs to have the work done, etc.

[Gardenarian]

I agree about the landlord.

I've had a cruddy older home (no foundation, rot everywhere) and a great older home. I think all older homes come with some problems. Maybe that true for new houses too, but I haven't lived in a new house since I was 9. I would love to design a new house for myself, with everything exactly how I want it.

[iris lilies]

... I think all older homes come with some problems.

Some guys we know who've lived in one of the old Victorians in our neighborhood and who worked on that house for 30 years had a miraculous 6 month periods where everything was done up perfectly. Everything! So you know what they did? They sold their house. They knew this was the "time" because in another few months it would be time to re-do some aspect of it and start that merry-go-round again.

They were excessively anal, however, about their house and it WAS perfect every way.

[redfox]

We're in a tract house built in 2000, and we're wondering when the big repairs will start... Oy.

[Spartana]

I have a 1950's small house with original everything and it is in constant need of some repair or another all the time. I have chosen to leave it in original condition - and it's very retro and cool if you are into mint green tile in the kitchen and baby blue and pink in the tiny bathrooms with old fashioned tubs and lots of scroll work wood moulding on the exterior and interior trims- but it is work. It's a 1,000 sf with 3 bedroom/2 bath with a 2 car garage on about a quarter acre tract lot. Very 1950's chic - unfortunately that includes the original plumbing and electrical.