View Full Version : When officials make ridiculous choices
The large city I live near (Indianapolis), has a mayor who wants to build a 6 million dollar Cricket field. (What the hell is that??)........to bring Cricket-lovers from around the world.
Yet....the city is experiencing a horribly high rate of crime and homicides. The mayor vetoed a proposal of adding 60 new officers. Why do mayors do stupid things like this? (I know, I know, its all about money). But they surely have their heads up their a**es when they make these choices. As if there isn't anything else worthy of 6 million dollars..........like infrastructure, security, etc. Really?? A Cricket field??
Here's an article about it:
http://www.wthr.com/story/22782572/2013/07/08/council-president-blasts-mayor-ballards-crime-fighting-plan-as-shell-game
Much as I think a cricket field is a little -- err, distinctive -- to be a big draw to anyone outside a short traveling distance, maybe Indianapolis is full of people from Great Britain and (Asian) Indians and other places of substantial British influence who are champing at the bit for such a place and would go often. Or not.
But I have seen many times that significant investment in an area (public or private) has transformed it and has greatly reduced crime and improved infrastructure. Times Square in New York City was squalid before NYC and private firms pumped money into it; it is no longer an area to be feared. Here in Minnesota, capital investment (too much of it public, IMHO) has improved Minneapolis' Warehouse District, with restaurants and shops and galleries and -- most importantly -- people, coming in many nights to see a game or concert at Target Center/Target Field.
When nobody at all cares, urban deterioration accelerates. While I do question whether cricket is Indy's savior, I cannot fault the mayor for trying to address the issues behind crime and homicide and decay. At least this is a novel approach.
Now, why the mayor vetoed the addition of adding 60 cops, I don't know. But I don't know the entire issue.
Indianapolis to host 2014-16 cricket championships (http://www.wthr.com/story/22593696/indianapolis-to-host-2014-16-cricket-championships)What we need to know is precisely how much revenue hosting the event is supposed to raise, both for the city and state, and for the local businesses. That's the only way we can evaluate whether the $6M would be well-spent in that regard. For comparison, the USBA championships (which is a shorter event, I believe, and amatuers) is supposed to bring $5M into North Myrtle Beach, SC in just one year. [Source: WMBF-TV.] As far as I can tell, that's in the USBA's first year of operation. I would project from that that the national championship for a professional sport league, including its 50th anniversary season, that Indianapolis can legitimately expect quite a bit more than $6M in each of the three years. But I'm just guessing.
It is important to understand that the decision to spend $6M on the cricket field is substantially unrelated to the hiring of more police officers. Unless I'm mistaken, the money for the cricket field is effectively leveraged - heck it could almost be considered a short-term loan to be paid back in a year or two - while the new police officers represent a cost, and a recurring cost at that, with very little chance that there will be a same-for-same payback in cash terms, in the short term.
Don't get me wrong: I think they should add the police officers if there is such a need, as was outlined in the claim. I'm just saying that the two matters aren't related to each other: The cricket field is a financial investment. The police officers are a social investment. They cannot be compared or contrasted one to the other. The former will probably be a financially profitable venture. The latter will probably result in higher taxes and safer neighborhoods.
Bread & roses, bread & roses...
I think I'm responding more to the crazy, uncontrolled growth in this area (and probably everywhere else). Just a few years ago there was a little town north-east of Indy. Now, its so huge, they are wanting to be called a city.
My way of life is threatened because of all this crazy growth. So that's probably why I get tired of hearing of all the things the officials want to do and build, in order to "put this town on the map". As I've mentioned before, a couple years ago they sold off 1700 acres of farmland in this county....just about 10 miles from me, and are trying to turn it into a city.
I feel like an alien.......like I should be living in a different culture. I have a totally different mindset than these city people. I also think that there is a ton of wasted taxpayer money, spent on huge things that have no impact on much, except traffic, pollution, noise, light, and most of all debt.
And these big things that are built might be great for a certain class of people, but "the other side of town" never seems to benefit.
Why not want less, and in doing so, we end up with more?
Seems like there are people who want to leave a huge legacy.....no matter what the cost or consequences. I just find that very short-sighted.
And like I said..........I'm an alien. I don't think I'm ever going to like those kind of choices going on in this culture.
Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago. -- Warren Buffett
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. -- Greek Proverb
The metaphor is a bit strained, but seems to apply here.
But that's my fear Steve......
To what you said, I'll say "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot".....Joni Mitchell
I see this culture (and others) bulldozing its way to ultimately making life unlivable. I know that sounds rather drastic, but its how I feel.
I've planted hundreds of trees in my life, and I don't want them mowed over for something like a Cricket Field........or a racetrack.........or all the other stuff that people consider "necessary."
Necessary for what? Where will all this lead us?
IshbelRobertson
7-10-13, 5:31am
pedant alert
We call it a cricket pitch :cool:
I just want to know.............how big of a field do they really need for some little crickets?? :~)
I've planted hundreds of trees in my life, and I don't want them mowed over for something like a Cricket Field........or a racetrack.........or all the other stuff that people consider "necessary."The location of the cricket pitch is already an open field: http://goo.gl/maps/9zxIb Note that the proposal doesn't build a stadium building or anything like that, but rather just brings the ground up to international competitive standards, and provides facilities support for the erection of temporary bleachers.
But its the whole concept of always wanting to attract more and more and more people so they can buy more and more stuff, so we can have more and more people, so we can have more and more stuff..............
Doesn't anyone on this simple living forum understand what I'm trying to say?
Why should they (specifically) be the first ones to abide by that precept in the absolute? I suggest that bringing that up in the context of this specific thread, aimed at that specific cricket pitch is off-target.
But its the whole concept of always wanting to attract more and more and more people so they can buy more and more stuff, so we can have more and more people, so we can have more and more stuff..............
Doesn't anyone on this simple living forum understand what I'm trying to say?
I completely understand. You can expand that thinking as wide as you like because there are very few things in the western civilization model that are sustainable without a pattern of near constant growth (which ultimately isn't sustainable). Our national debt won't crush us as long as the economy continues to grow. Our food production methods won't fail as long as our supply of fossil fuels continues to grow. Human population won't fail as long as industrial agriculture continues to grow. And on and on...
Locally speaking, its just officials trying to generate some activity where none currently exists. It is important to note that, as others have said, the way budgets work it is not a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Money for cricket field doesn't necessarily take money away from the police force. Financing for the field would be secured by that venue and would not be available for police salaries, its simply two different pools of money. Its easy for us to get tripped up by thinking government, even locally, operates like our household finances with $X coming in and $X+ going out. Its just not that simple.
I do get why you think its silly (a cricket pitch), but if the numbers are positive I actually think its a pretty creative idea. Heaven knows my small city could use some outside the box thinking like that. I tend to agree with buu that it doesn't work to overlay planetary thinking on local decisions. Yes, we, as a species, need a new paradigm. I could not agree more. But I think holding this project up as the poster child for all that is wrong in the world is off base. Look at the positives... It is land that won't be paved over for Joni's parking lot. It will be prettier than a parking lot or a housing project. After the event it will be open space where kids can play without getting run over. It will be available to host other events and thus contribute more to the local economy. It will get a lot of publicity, at least in certain circles, which should all be positive if the events go off as planned. I'm no fan of developing for development's sake, but this actually sounds kind of cool to me.
SteveinMN
7-10-13, 10:19am
Yes, we, as a species, need a new paradigm. I could not agree more. But I think holding this project up as the poster child for all that is wrong in the world is off base. Look at the positives... It is land that won't be paved over for Joni's parking lot. It will be prettier than a parking lot or a housing project. After the event it will be open space where kids can play without getting run over. It will be available to host other events and thus contribute more to the local economy. It will get a lot of publicity, at least in certain circles, which should all be positive if the events go off as planned. I'm no fan of developing for development's sake, but this actually sounds kind of cool to me.
With additional posts here I have seen that there would indeed be more traffic to this cricket pitch than I thought. I was envisioning something on the order of a minor-league stadium. It is an outside-the-box thought, but I think it's a better bet than yet another minor-league stadium, shopping mall, or $400,000 condos.
Gregg pretty well says it all for me. I, too, am not happy with continual growth being the driver of our economy. But I don't know what a viable alternative would be. It would be a major paradigm shift -- for Americans especially -- to adjust to the idea that bigger is not always better and that we are better off collectively than individually. That's a change that I believe would take many generations and perhaps a revolution by those who arrived at the party late. As development projects go, this one is not displacing people from where they live, it does not cause the environmental hit that a shopping center would, and it can have a life after its sponsored use.
You all say reasonable things. Maybe I over-react to everything now, considering the recent history/developments of this entire area. I'm sad because I can't relate to any of it, and feel that its not the kind of world I want. And yes......I have my little world where I live......but its constantly on the edge of being run over. Yes, a Cricket Pitch is better than a mall or a racetrack or expensive condos, or a motocross track, or Federally sbusidized housing........but don't worry, those other things are going up in all the other open spaces.
And according to the mayor, the point of the Cricket pitch was to get people from all over the world to come. Why not just try to make the people around you happy?
Indy hosted the Superbowl last year (?), which I thought was really risky, since we can have really bad winters sometimes here, and completely redid several streets, and added a zip-line........which was a big hit. So then they put a zip line up in a beautiful huge wooded park on the northwest side...........which bothered me, 'cause its like "How can we squeeze money from absolutely everything", with no concern for nature. Can't people just take walks and bike rides through the park? I don't trust mankind to do anything good for the planet. :(
I have the feeling that those of you who think things like this are good for everyone, already live in town?
Like I said........I must be an alien from a very different planet.........
SteveinMN
7-10-13, 11:13am
I have the feeling that those of you who think things like this are good for everyone, already live in town?
I do. Right within city limits. But that's me and DW. It would be almost a death sentence for us to move, say, someplace 20-30 minutes drive from "the" Walmart. Other people cannot imagine anything nicer. Horses for courses. :)
And according to the mayor, the point of the Cricket pitch was to get people from all over the world to come. Why not just try to make the people around you happy?
An admirable goal to be sure, but also problematic where the government is concerned. For a municipal government to take on projects that add to quality of life it takes money. You hate to say that it all boils down to money, but in that case it does (and it has to). If the cricket pitch makes money what will be done with the profits? If, for instance, it goes to building or expanding parks and trails would that not be a net gain compared to other possible outcomes?
And CathyA, I'm sorry the encroaching development threatens your lifestyle. That is a hard position to be in. I have a hard time seeing expansion as the tyranny of the majority, but I'm sure that's how it must feel. FWIW there are lots of small towns throughout the midwest where expansion is no threat whatsoever. Would you ever consider relocating to somewhere like that?
I can't imagine having to leave. We've been here for about 32 years and raised our kids here and they love it too. But........if it no longer made us happy, we would probably be forced to move. :(
ApatheticNoMore
7-10-13, 12:09pm
The whole society is unsustainable yes. I don't care that it's the only model that supposedly "works", because a model that destroys the world doesn't work. So lets just dump that model please. Without the sea parting and a booming voice declaring a new model the one. That's what it seems people are waiting for. For all their: "but we don't have a better alternative", it's not as if they spend their time looking for new alternatives. It's like they expect an alternative to show up on their doorstep one day, gift wrapped and delivered by the post office. Honestly I doubt experiments could fail as badly.
That's big big picture. But from there yea it's hard to relate it entirely to the cricket field! I mean I'm imagining it's kind of like a park right? It's green space as they say. Green space is generally considered a positive environmentally for the local community. I don't need to be given a lecture on the evils of grass (which I imagine it will be), I know grass is not optimal environmentally, but grass and trees provide a lot more for wildlife, for fighting pollution, for people's experience of nature than concrete. What is in the space now? Farmland? Woods? Virgin forests? :) See I would get angry at the destruction of the natural environment to build a field (and I would not be alone, whole local activists groups get angry at that type of thing) and heaven knows we need good local food suppliers. Do I see it as the best use of millions of dollars in a city? No. But I realize some people may feel the same way about things I don't mind funding at all - like public transportation - like a nature preserve even!
Would you push more buttons if I pictured it not as a park with a cricket field somewhere but as a sport stadium - well yea because I think they build those things without even a concern of what it does for traffic etc. - that is ALL ABOUT the corporate money, sure even then people enjoy watching sports - their corporate fun - sure - I get pretty peeved people going to sports for fun taking priority over the commute-ability of a city people work in though.
Will I fight hard, for whereever I happen to be planted (frankly in a place and maybe a country I often find extremely hard to relate to!) to remain as close as possibility to basic livability? Yea :) But always in the back of my mind is the basic refugee mentality - there's sometimes nothing to do but flee ..... it doesn't even make sense, I don't flee, but it's in the cultural memory ...
I'm not smart enough to even have a guess at what alternate system this country could have. I think we're past the point of no return as far as that goes. Like Steve said, it would take a major paradigm shift, and generations of change....which just won't happen.
I have always wondered where we went wrong, and tried to image a different course, but I don't know what that would be. The horse is out of the barn and has been probably ever since the first immigrants arrived.
And I guess my irritation with the Cricket Pitch was more a cumulative irritation...... You just wouldn't believe the farmland/wooded areas/heron habitat, etc., etc., that has been destroyed around here in the past 10-15 years. And the Cricket pitch is just another way of adding fuel to the entire eventually unsustainable situation. It isn't JUST a Cricket field.........its a means to an end......that never ends.
It all reminds me of in The Lord of the Rings, when those monsters were working underground, churning out whatever, using up everything around them.
No, I don't fit in. And I'm usually proud not to.
IshbelRobertson
7-10-13, 2:46pm
A cricket match is still played on village greens up and down England (and even in a couple of places in Scotland and wales). There is normally a small pavilion or club house, practice nets and the pitch itself. It does minimal damage as people usually take their own deck chairs.
Mind you, the professional game has huge cricket grounds and facilities, see here.
http://www.lords.org/
I'm not smart enough to even have a guess at what alternate system this country could have. I think we're past the point of no return as far as that goes. Like Steve said, it would take a major paradigm shift, and generations of change....which just won't happen.
Albert Einstein said, " I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but world War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." It is possible that the same scenario will apply to life in general on this planet. Pollution, resource depletion, a major die off...and a new start. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet and still believe humanity will experience a few just in time techno-miracles that spare us, but that the peek into the abyss might just bring us to our senses before its too late.
ETA: Reread sounded a lot more negative than I really am. Truth is we are on the cusp of a technology boom that will put anything in the past to shame. The next generation is going to transform energy, food, transportation, communication, entertainment and anything else you can think of into forms us old farts will barely recognize. I have absolutely no doubt they are going to save everything my generation $*#&ed up.
The alternative system is outlined in Charles Eisenstein's works (yes, here I go again--sorry ApatheticNoMore): Ascent of Humanity/Sacred Economics. He's coming out with a new book called "The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know is Possible."
Here's a brief video of him giving a speech in Australia in March.--Hang in there in the beginning because he had to get a better microphone, which he got in a couple of minutes in.
http://vimeo.com/66550562
Please let me tell you about our $350 million (yes, that's right) Museum for Human Rights. Sure, the building looks kinda cool, but I'm pretty sure that kind of money could have been spent to help actual currently living people - like the ones in our own country without access to clean and safe drinking water, or the ones who lost their homes from floods.
If only we were just building a cricket field - at least we'd have lots of citizens using that.
Check out the wiki page if you want: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Museum_for_Human_Rights
The whole society is unsustainable yes. I don't care that it's the only model that supposedly "works", because a model that destroys the world doesn't work. So lets just dump that model please. Without the sea parting and a booming voice declaring a new model the one. That's what it seems people are waiting for. For all their: "but we don't have a better alternative", it's not as if they spend their time looking for new alternatives. It's like they expect an alternative to show up on their doorstep one day, gift wrapped and delivered by the post office. Honestly I doubt experiments could fail as badly.
There are other models. Pure Communism is one. But it hasn't worked well for North Korea or Cuba. And the U.S.S.R. and China have been moving to a more socialist or capitalist model.
Socialism actually can work quite well when enough capitalism is mixed in, as Germany, Norway, Japan, Singapore, and some other countries can attest. But as long as a major political party in the U.S. insists on painting it solely as "taking things away from you to give to them" and hiding how they themselves enjoy the fruits of it, that model is a non-starter in this country.
Without turning this into more of a political discussion, I think U.S.-style capitalism did fairly well until about 30 years ago, when the checks and balances between public interest and corporate interest were broken. General Motors once was scorned for claiming that "What is good for GM is good for the country," but many in the U.S. now seem to have accepted that philosophy wholeheartedly even though it serves them no better now than it did then.
I fight hard, for whereever I happen to be planted
I live in a boomtown so I feel your pain. A lot of of how my city taxes are spent do not make sense to me - F1 racetracks, boardwalks that go over (and parallel to) the downtown river so that rich residents have a place to jog, etc while basic infrastructure (sidewalks, roads, etc) are ignored. I really think if one follows the money though, it is all about making more for a few connected individuals or groups. Ex. Put the racetrack on the edge of town where land is cheaper and nothing exists and developers all have more places to develop to support the throngs of people who will show up. The big picture is not in my control so I work on my little neck of the woods to make it the best I can. Along with others, I attended every meeting there was to stop a neighborhood Walmart. I have planted trees on busy streets. Last night, I met with a California developer who has purchased a defunct strip center nearby so that he could gather our ideas on how to re-develop. That's all I can really do that makes a difference.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.