View Full Version : Family! Hoarding, helplessnes, family loyalty. LONG.
I seem to have family issues coming out the ears. But for this thread, I will address one and ask people if they've ever had experience with that, and they have done that works to help the person:
My son and dil and 4 year old Grandson live in a house they rent. In the tiny house behind, lives dil's mother, in her 50's. She recently went in for some serious arterial surgery and has been in the hospital a week but is due to get out any day. In the mean time my dil attempted to work on her mothers house. Mother is a hoarder. In the worst definition of the word. The most extreme kind. The kind that is a health hazard. I've been watching the Grandson for a few hours in the day so that she can make an effort at this while her husband is at work. She enlisted the help of a friend. She was encouraged because she though two sets of hands means more will be accomplished. Unfortunately, the friend was horrified, and wouldn't help, and said the authorities needed to called. Of course my DIL was horrified and felt awful. So, my question is: What is this "Help" What is this "Adult Services" her friend mentioned to her to go to for this extreme situation? I don't know. Of course my dil is worried for her mother. She feels sick and ashamed and helpless. She wants to care for and help her mother, but it isn't really working. Hoarders don't want to cooperate. I offered to go and help dil. I assured her that no matter how horrible it was, I wouldn't judge her for her mothers actions. But, we haven't been able to get anyone to watch the child while we try and make a dent. So, time is running out. But does anyone have experience with extreme hoarders who have no money, no insurance, no assets, who need real help? My dil is very nervous that if authorities see the situation, her mother could end up homeless or in a bad situation. She is feeling conflict, shame, and helplessness. Has anyone here dealt with anything like this? Please throw stuff out there. Then when I finish with this thread, I have another family crisis I'd love to throw out there for some ideas.
I don't have first had experience with Hoarding.
I do watch the show about the condition on occasion.
Maybe some info in these 2 links could be helpful in some way?
Resource List from show website: http://www.aetv.com/hoarders/treatment/
Discussion Board: http://community.aetv.com/service/displayForum.kickAction?w=265899&as=119137&d-7254205-p=1
Here's a NY Times article on Hoarding Task Forces that are coming together around the country:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/health/when-hoarding-morphs-into-a-safety-hazard.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
Oh Tiam, I am so sorry that your dear DIL is stressed by both her Mom's health & her hoarding. Please, please encourage your DIL to see a competent therapist, who specializes in hoarding. Cleaning out the home WILL NOT HELP... because the root of the hoarding is still there. Getting to the root is important, and that takes time. Her immediate health is the big concern.
Adult Protective Services likely will assess the home for health & safety. If it isn't safe for her to come home to, alternate plans need to be made -- convalescent care, for instance. Your role in supporting your DIL to get the help she needs to cope is invaluable. She needs & deserves more resources.
Redfox has it right. You should support needs of your son, grandson and DIL. Her mother needs outside review some decision making.
The family unit will NOT be able to resolve this no matter how much they try (given your info on seriousness of situation). In fact, actions they may try and take to "help" will probably make it worse. Get the hospital social worker involved since they should help attempt to determine if the housing is safe for the person to return to live.
I am so very sorry for all involved as this is a mental disease that affects so many. This disease whether it is hoarding of things or animals is deep seated with no clear treatment.
Miss Cellane
7-15-13, 7:09am
Tiam, this is a website that might offer some help in dealing with this: http://childrenofhoarders.com/wordpress/
I'll PM you with a couple more.
Sad Eyed Lady
7-15-13, 9:59am
Agreeing with what others are saying here. I think if she had a clean sparkling home in no time it would be back to the point it is now or close to it. I have an elderly cousin in her late 80's. A delightful, very "with-it" kind of person who lives alone and does just fine. Except, she too is a hoarder IMO. Maybe not to the extreme that we are talking here or on the TV show, but I don't really know because she has a room in the front of the house that is basically where I see her. It is cluttered but I think the rest of the house is probably maxed out. Her niece comes to visit and sometimes does a MAJOR cleaning out - things look nice, and then it creeps back. As redfox said, it's the root of the problem that has to be dealt with. Keep us posted.
Redfox has it right. You should support needs of your son, grandson and DIL. Her mother needs outside review some decision making.
The family unit will NOT be able to resolve this no matter how much they try (given your info on seriousness of situation). In fact, actions they may try and take to "help" will probably make it worse. Get the hospital social worker involved since they should help attempt to determine if the housing is safe for the person to return to live.
I am so very sorry for all involved as this is a mental disease that affects so many. This disease whether it is hoarding of things or animals is deep seated with no clear treatment.
Correct. But mom has no insurance. The kids (my son and dil) are just starting out, and have no financial means. So, who do they go to for help? What competent therapist who deals in hoarding for someone who has no means. I think we know that cleaning the house isn't the cure, but that's why I ask. Who gives this kind of assistance? Where does she begin? I don't even know who "Adult protective services" are. They aren't in the phone book.
Tiam, just to acknowledge how wonderful you are in seeking advice and providing support to that young family. You are doing a lot!
Sad Eyed Lady
7-15-13, 11:37am
Correct. But mom has no insurance. The kids (my son and dil) are just starting out, and have no financial means. So, who do they go to for help? What competent therapist who deals in hoarding for someone who has no means. I think we know that cleaning the house isn't the cure, but that's why I ask. Who gives this kind of assistance? Where does she begin? I don't even know who "Adult protective services" are. They aren't in the phone book.
To my understanding, Adult Protective Services is the same as Child Protective Services except for the elderly who may be abused, exploited, taken advantage of etc. I was referred to them when my stepfather was being taken to the cleaners by "vultures" after my mother's death. They said they would make a visit and see about the situation, but the kicker was if he didn't agree to it or felt it was a need then the case wouldn't be opened. I am recalling this after a few years and my memory may be faulty or the criteria may have changed, but that is how I remember it in a nutshell. If he didn't feel he needed help they wouldn't get involved. That was the frustrating part, nothing between that and a full blown incompetency hearing which I would not put him through.
I wish I had some answers, I have not dealt with this. My family is more of the anti-hoarders and I can imagine that DIL has some difficult feelings.
About the counseling thing, If you have a university with grad students in psychology they often can do some short term counseling on a sliding scale. Also if you have a church a minister can often help guide through this process and know some resources without having the mother picked up by authorities.
I think I would call the county mental health services office and ask for advice. Then go from there.
sweetana3
7-15-13, 12:40pm
Each state and governmental agency calls their departments by different names. You have to do some searching for your State's Elderly Ombudsman or similar position. Often you can call your state representative and ask for their help.
Who owns the home she is living in? Does the son and DIL rent both and let her live there? If it is rented from a landlord, I feel for the landlord too. Here is a house that could be condemned potentially due to the mother's actions. It is unclear the legal consequences of this situation.
If there is no money to even tip helpers, rent a trash hauler or bin, and no friends or resources (like a church or such), then it is pretty much up to the family. Is there no one that could trade a couple of days of day care for the 4 year old for a later couple of days from your DIL? Can your DIL offer to clean their house for trading day care? Anyone?
Hard to give location specifics long distance.
Tim, it varies depending upon the state you live in. In WA state, Adult Protectove Services is a start agency. The hospital social worker is THE place to start, for help paying for everything, for therapeutic referrals, and for post surgery housing. You can always begin the conversation with the social worker, but it is best if DIL starts it.
I understand that when there is no insurance, one can be shy about asking for help. Ask anyway! Look for a local chapter of the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill: aka NAMI. Our state chapter is called WAMI. Hoarding is most likely, at root, a mental illness. Ask questions of health care providers. Tell the doctors that her home is not a place to recover, and she needs options. The doctors don't want her to bounce back with an infection.
As you're online, google every question you have and the most interesting resources will pop up. Keep asking!
Was just thinking about this --- if she is only in her 50's, would the Elderly Ombudsmen-type places even help her?
Each state and governmental agency calls their departments by different names. You have to do some searching for your State's Elderly Ombudsman or similar position. Often you can call your state representative and ask for their help.
Who owns the home she is living in? Does the son and DIL rent both and let her live there? If it is rented from a landlord, I feel for the landlord too. Here is a house that could be condemned potentially due to the mother's actions. It is unclear the legal consequences of this situation.
If there is no money to even tip helpers, rent a trash hauler or bin, and no friends or resources (like a church or such), then it is pretty much up to the family. Is there no one that could trade a couple of days of day care for the 4 year old for a later couple of days from your DIL? Can your DIL offer to clean their house for trading day care? Anyone?
Hard to give location specifics long distance.
I appreciate all the great suggestions. I should add, the reason we aren't just getting sitter for the child is that he is autistic.
if she is only in her 50's, would the Elderly Ombudsmen-type places even help her?
They may not be able to help directly. But they likely know who handles the "outlier" situations they come across. They can be a good resource for leads, if nothing else. And they're in the business to help. They'll do what they can.
fidgiegirl
7-15-13, 4:34pm
I cannot recommend this book enough:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51UgvrPFR0L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
It helped me to understand some of my mother's behavior (I still have a hard time saying it is hoarding, but if you do one of those check off lists let's just say a lot of boxes are checked off for her home) and adjust my own reaction accordingly. It also led me to find this book:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51R3UohcCPL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
Which I abandoned early because it was too hard for me, personally, at the time, to own up to my role in damaging our relationship around stuff. I would like to try it again at some time because what I did read was good.
I just re-read the thread because I was confused about some stuff, and good thing, because I just deleted about half of what I was going to post. I will say this, and this isn't me talking so much as the book - forget about cleaning it out. ESPECIALLY without her. I know others said it above, but I can't reiterate it enough. Due to (futile) attempts at "cleaning" as a teenager (in quotes because it's not cleaning, it's just shuffling stuff around) it is taking YEARS to be more trusted around my mom's things and in her home. I say "more" because I still am not 100% trusted because she knows I have sold or given away gifts from her more recently. My brother decided to "clean" while they were on a vacation (all he did was pack her stuff in some boxes and stack it up) and she talked about it for months. My mom's stuff isn't clearly garbage, but in other cases, even if it were what you or I would call garbage, it's not garbage to the hoarder. So for someone else to go in and violate that trust and clean things out is very very damaging.
I can't remember if it is Stuff or Digging Out (what little I did read) that talks about basically trying to arrive at a compromise with the hoarder. Like, "I won't touch any of your stuff, but you can't keep things on the stove." But not just laid out like that, like a punishment being done to the hoarder. It's a conversation. I think it was in Digging Out and they outline very thoroughly what considerations to make in the process. I think that's where I lost it because I couldn't admit that yes, I had breached a trust in moving or throwing away items, even though I had my reasons as a child who did not ever feel at ease in my cluttered environment and had no control over it.
I learned this and so so so so so so so so so so so much more from the books. It took your DIL's mom a long time to get into this place. It will take a long time to get out. It is not a race. Preserve what relationship is there. Read the books, they have so many ideas.
AND she needs to get over to the Children of Hoarders site stat.
I am still confused on this point, but not sure why: Does her mom provide child care for your grandson?
Have you seen the home yourself? It sounded like all of this is perhaps through DiL's eyes . . . it might be interesting to at least get a look so you are fully aware of the scope of the situation. There are more and less dangerous situations. Lots of stuff is one thing, animal hoarding is another. Neither one is good but one is a more immediate health risk.
My inlaws have no clue of how my parents' house is. I've said it's "messy" or something vague like that in the past. I dread that ILs for some reason would ever go there. They would die because they are so opposite in their housekeeping that it's amazing. A person could eat off my mother in law's floors. Luckily my parents live an hour away so there is very little chance of that ever happening.
And lastly, this mantra, that I learned on these very boards for another issue, may help your DiL: "You didn't cause it, you can't cure it and you can't control it." Very helpful for me to remember. Hard to do (especially not to control), but helpful to remember.
Are there any "autistim support groups" in your area? Just expanding on the populations to consider.
Fidgiegirl's post is fantastic. Actually everyone has had good ideas.
Good post, Fidgiegirl....it made me think, yeah. I'm 58 years old and still angry with my mom that she cleaned my room while I was at school. Somewhere in a long ago abandoned garbage dump lies my John Lennon doll.
Due to (futile) attempts at "cleaning" as a teenager (in quotes because it's not cleaning, it's just shuffling stuff around) it is taking YEARS to be more trusted around my mom's things and in her home. I say "more" because I still am not 100% trusted because she knows I have sold or given away gifts from her more recently. My brother decided to "clean" while they were on a vacation (all he did was pack her stuff in some boxes and stack it up) and she talked about it for months. My mom's stuff isn't clearly garbage, but in other cases, even if it were what you or I would call garbage, it's not garbage to the hoarder. So for someone else to go in and violate that trust and clean things out is very very damaging.
I don't think it's just a sitcom trope; I've heard it for years from halves of married-couple friends and at social gatherings. Someone (almost always the female half of the couple) acknowledges throwing away/giving away/selling their partner's "stuff" while (he) is not paying attention. "Oh, that sweatshirt with the faded emblem? You've had that since college!" "You weren't doing anything with <items> so I gave them to Goodwill."
If you don't count my mom tossing my baseball cards as a teenager, I've never had anyone do that to me. But even if someone is not a hoarder, getting rid of someone else's not-dangerous "stuff" is indeed a breach of trust. Not to call you out, Kelli; you just happened to mention the behavior first. Just mentioning that it's not a behavior that damages just individuals who hoard things.
I cannot recommend this book enough:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51UgvrPFR0L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
It helped me to understand some of my mother's behavior (I still have a hard time saying it is hoarding, but if you do one of those check off lists let's just say a lot of boxes are checked off for her home) and adjust my own reaction accordingly. It also led me to find this book:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51R3UohcCPL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
Which I abandoned early because it was too hard for me, personally, at the time, to own up to my role in damaging our relationship around stuff. I would like to try it again at some time because what I did read was good.
I just re-read the thread because I was confused about some stuff, and good thing, because I just deleted about half of what I was going to post. I will say this, and this isn't me talking so much as the book - forget about cleaning it out. ESPECIALLY without her. I know others said it above, but I can't reiterate it enough. Due to (futile) attempts at "cleaning" as a teenager (in quotes because it's not cleaning, it's just shuffling stuff around) it is taking YEARS to be more trusted around my mom's things and in her home. I say "more" because I still am not 100% trusted because she knows I have sold or given away gifts from her more recently. My brother decided to "clean" while they were on a vacation (all he did was pack her stuff in some boxes and stack it up) and she talked about it for months. My mom's stuff isn't clearly garbage, but in other cases, even if it were what you or I would call garbage, it's not garbage to the hoarder. So for someone else to go in and violate that trust and clean things out is very very damaging.
I can't remember if it is Stuff or Digging Out (what little I did read) that talks about basically trying to arrive at a compromise with the hoarder. Like, "I won't touch any of your stuff, but you can't keep things on the stove." But not just laid out like that, like a punishment being done to the hoarder. It's a conversation. I think it was in Digging Out and they outline very thoroughly what considerations to make in the process. I think that's where I lost it because I couldn't admit that yes, I had breached a trust in moving or throwing away items, even though I had my reasons as a child who did not ever feel at ease in my cluttered environment and had no control over it.
I learned this and so so so so so so so so so so so much more from the books. It took your DIL's mom a long time to get into this place. It will take a long time to get out. It is not a race. Preserve what relationship is there. Read the books, they have so many ideas.
AND she needs to get over to the Children of Hoarders site stat.
I am still confused on this point, but not sure why: Does her mom provide child care for your grandson?
Have you seen the home yourself? It sounded like all of this is perhaps through DiL's eyes . . . it might be interesting to at least get a look so you are fully aware of the scope of the situation. There are more and less dangerous situations. Lots of stuff is one thing, animal hoarding is another. Neither one is good but one is a more immediate health risk.
My inlaws have no clue of how my parents' house is. I've said it's "messy" or something vague like that in the past. I dread that ILs for some reason would ever go there. They would die because they are so opposite in their housekeeping that it's amazing. A person could eat off my mother in law's floors. Luckily my parents live an hour away so there is very little chance of that ever happening.
And lastly, this mantra, that I learned on these very boards for another issue, may help your DiL: "You didn't cause it, you can't cure it and you can't control it." Very helpful for me to remember. Hard to do (especially not to control), but helpful to remember.
Big post. Well, to answer a few questions, no the mother isn't doing childcare for the grandchild. I think my dil's thought was that she needed to get the environment more healthy for her mom to come home to. I think she knows that it won't solve the overall problem. I saw this house a few years ago when the baby was born, and it was bad then, but not a hoarders house, just very poor, and smelled awful. It was pretty bad as a place to live though. But I guess this had happened since dil moved out. Even though she is literally through the garden gate, it has gotten out of control since then. She described tons of food still on plates unwashed under clothes and trash and dead rodents. I can guess it's pretty bad. And the friend walked out and said she couldn't do it. I offered to help her but she hasn't taken me up on it. I think she feels she has to do something soon, for her mother's own good. She's got a lot on her plate as a young mom, with a low income and an autistic child and an unstable parent. She has told her mom that she intended to go into the house and work on it. I don't think it was really contentious, but of course it wasn't appreciated. I don't know, ultimately, how she will decide to handle this, but I appreciate the resources I am getting. I might just get her the book myself.
rodeosweetheart
7-15-13, 8:11pm
Since son's MIL is in the hospital, I would start for help with hospital social worker, explain situation. They will know resources or they may be able to help bec ause of her hospitalization.
Since son's MIL is in the hospital, I would start for help with hospital social worker, explain situation. They will know resources or they may be able to help bec ause of her hospitalization.
I think this is a good suggestion. I am not sure when her mom gets out, but it's going to be very soon.
It may seem completely unrelated, but you might want to have a look at the book "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" by Gabor Mate. It is rooted in his work with addicted people in Vancouver, but he also talks a LOT about how the brain interacts with environment and how addictive behaviors of all kinds manifest in people's day to day lives. I think a lot of it would apply to hoarding situations, which are very similar to the OCD type behavior he discusses at length.
Good luck helping your DIL work through this, Tiam. very challenging situation....
Hello Tiam, one reason that people collect stuff to the point well beyond what they need is a feeling of loss. It could be a relationship, a loved one,
a pet or a way of life. Unable to do anything about it, People try to fill their feelings of loss by adding things to their home or land until and after it filled up! A lot of times, they will not change unless there is a crisis and they are forced to change by a public health worker or police. Sometimes a family member who is persistent can repeatedly talk to them about their habits but it is not easy Don't be surprised if your family needs outside help. A lot of people hoard. They have to realize they can't go on and other people care about them.
Bicyclist
Hi Tiam,
I'm sorry - I don't have time to read the whole thread - but there is a 12-step program for hoarders called Clutterers Anonymous - and it's free. Your dil might also find it helpful to attend Adult Child of Alcoholics and/or Al-Anon meetings which are open to relatives and friends of people with other compulsions. There are a lot of bogus links on the internet (by professional organizers who are trying to make money), but here's the official one:
https://sites.google.com/site/clutterersanonymous/Home?pli=1
They have telephone meetings if you are too far away from an actual meeting. They also may be able to help your dil find support.
I relate to her shame. My mom was a hoarder, and it was hard.
Here's another link to Adult Children of Alcoholics/Dysfunctional Families for your dil:
http://www.adultchildren.org/
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