Bureaucracy, how I hate thee [Archive]

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puglogic

8-14-13, 6:56pm

We've been trying to get our solar panels installed for months now, and they've been hung up on one nail or another pretty constantly.

The latest is our energy provider, Xcel Energy. Their process is to have their engineers look at the line drawings for the system, give a preliminary "OK", and we can get started. (Steve, of course they are based in MN)

It has been five weeks for just that one task. I am sure they're busy, but I know others who were approved in 3 days, far more complex and bigger than our system, with numerous problems associated with them! I am coming unglued. Being kind of a "fixer" person, I can't help thinking there ought to be something I can do. A well-placed letter or complaint or SOMETHING.

Anyone make a habit of weaving their way through icky bureaucracy and being a squeaky wheel? What would YOU do if you wanted to really rattle someone's cage?

Zoe Girl

8-14-13, 7:15pm

I give up, not a cool option but when I have been in the middle of this I simply cannot seem to get things done. I sometimes just keep calling and pushing and calling and emailing.

Sorry frustrated today. I got on a waiting list for counseling for my son in May when he refused to go to school and had anxiety issues. I gave him the option of online school and he had to take one course over the summer to have that option in fall. School semester is over this week, son has been showing me his progress, only he did something sneaky and actually he failed. So I saw the principal who said he had been meaning to call me, well waaaay too late. Maybe middle of summer, I had no progress reports. I didn't even know it was possible to pull this, I was a good mom and had son pull up his course progress you know. So I call back the counseling center and ask what happened, it has been since May. They had in their records we missed our appointment, we were behind a car accident and would be too late and so I called and then they said they had no appointment on record, just wait until they called us. So school starts the 26th and we can get into counseling mid September. See what happened when I just trusted them and waited instead of calling weekly. They even have that they called us and we had no phone call.

I know the drill, now I have to wait until our DR's office hours to try and get urgent appointments in. For mental health it is typically months. I am not sure if that is what you are talking about, but waiting and being patient and then hearing there is a mix up, and then no one can ever address the mix up except maybe say sorry. I don't know about you but I plan projects for when I have a slower work schedule, then they finally get back to you and it is super busy and difficult. I recall when I quit Target and was trying to get my retirement I cried on the phone with 2 different people. That doesn't help, and I felt like an idiot. And my son will be going to a special high school now for truants and those at risk of jail, if they call me back that is.

Lainey

8-14-13, 8:39pm

puglogic,
My tactic is to write to the agency that regulates them. or report them to the Better Business Bureau. If that fails, try your state or federal representatives.
Isn't there also a website - is it epinions.com - where you can flog them publicly? Sometimes the internet shaming gets the quickest results, although IMO it should be last resort.

iris lilies

8-14-13, 8:53pm

Sigh.

My city passed a law (oh goody! another law!) that unneutered pets are charged $46 annually as a tax . Because you know that those in the ghetto culture will honor the law and run right out and neuter their pitbulls, yesiree, it worked so well! Not.

So law abiding citizen that I am, I take my dogs in for a rabies shot annually. It's the rabies shot that triggers this city law.

I have dogs that can't be neutered due to health risks and now this new law makes me jump through silly hoops to avoid the $46 tax. I paid it once this year for one of them because it was just easier than jumping through their exclusion hoops. But usually I jump through the hoops.

edited because it was too long and boring and who wants to read about bureaucratic hoops, anyways

lhamo

8-15-13, 6:06am

I feel for your guys. Bureacracy sucks. My job has bureaucratic aspects that we have to put people through, but we try to explain the purpose.

I listed to this story on Marketplace on the way home today. I want to nominate Ms. Cynthia Lara of the Pasadena DMV for amazing person of the decade -- listen to the story and you'll see why (and maybe feel just a little bit better about bureaucracy, or at least the people stuck in bureaucratic jobs who try to make the experience on the other side of the counter a little better for people):

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/you-hate-my-job/you-hate-my-job-i-work-dmv

Zoe Girl

8-15-13, 9:15am

Ok mine is all about medical insurance/healthcare. I am on hold right now. When I signed up for insurance they transposed my phone number, my street number and even my street name (it is uncommon but has the same letters as a common name). I have been changing this for 2 full years. Right now I am trying to get online for my son and it won't let me log in, in fact it has never let me log in for him. I change the address and phone every time we go, last time they told me something about my employer and that makes no sense. Of course no one answers a phone until 8 or 8:30, really. One of the largest insurers in the state and you cannot make an appointment until 8:30, we used to have a DR under another insurance that would answer at 7, no appointments until 8 but you could at least get a time and call work and make arrangements

SteveinMN

8-15-13, 10:09am

Speaking as the husband of a (county) government employee, and to paraphrase another government employee, "I feel your pain."

puglogic, even though Xcel is not a government entity, the same rules would apply:

- Do you have the name of a contact (e.g., had to send the drawings to someone specific)? I'd start with a call to that person (Xcel probably has a switchboard which could transfer the call if you don't have a direct number). People prefer different modes of communication, so mixing it up is good; besides, for most people presence implies priority, and a call gives you presence an email or letter does not.
- If there's no one specific, I'd call Xcel's general number and ask to be transferred to the appropriate department. You likely will have to explain your situation more than once to whoever answers, so keep the questions to 10,000 feet until it's obvious you can descend to a level with greater detail. Ask to speak with a Supervisor or Manager. There's always one of those "on duty" and they don't want to deal with someone else's problem, so I think you'll be able to count on them to get it to their peer in the right area.
- If you get voicemail, be very specific about when you will call back for a status check if they don't get back to you first. You may stand a better chance at a live person earlier in the mornings (say, after 7).
- Keep in mind it is August and a lot of people are on vacation. Regardless of what Tea Party attendees might like to believe, few large organizations (including government agencies) are stuffed with employees playing cards and going on extended yogurt breaks while taxpayers/customers drum their fingers. Every organization's staff is cut close to the bone (or into bone). So one person on vacation may well stall direct action. Right now my wife is covering for two of her peers, so that's dozens more people she's "supervising".
- And the "more flies with honey" rule applies: "Hello, this is puglogic. I'm trying to learn the status of some solar panel drawings we submitted weeks ago. My understanding is that others plans have been approved quickly. So I'm wondering if there's something you need from us to complete the review?" will draw people into helping you resolve the problem. Everyone in my wife's organizatoin has orders from her management to tell "telephone screamers" that they're willing to continue the conversation once the caller is able to speak calmly and inoffensively. If they don't, the employee can hang up without reprisal. Ask for names and for telephone numbers for followup calls; this tells people you're seeking accountability. You tried it their way; it didn't work. Now you can try it your way.

I don't know anyone who works at Xcel or I'd offer to find a name for you. Good luck!

pinkytoe

8-15-13, 10:59am

As someone who works in a bureaucratic state university, I too see things from the service side. Often, a hangup comes down to one or two individuals not doing their part in the cycle of paperwork and approvals. I spend a great deal of time chasing down required documents for the simplest things because someone has gone on vacation, been fired, lost documents. If someone expecting a payment or service calls me personally to complain or inquire, then I am on it immediately since I am not aware that it has even stalled further down the line. If you can figure out what department/office/individual is handling this through the customer service line, and then make a friendly but firm inquiry then you might get some answers. Sadly, voice mails don't always get answered around here due to the sheer volume.

iris lilies

8-15-13, 11:02am

puglogic

8-15-13, 11:14pm

Thanks, everyone, for the great ideas. I don't know if there is a cause-and-effect here, but yesterday I wrote to the area manager for Xcel, making my case and explaining what a terrific and supportive customer we've always been, and how disappointed I was. This afternoon, we had the approval we've been waiting a month for.

Just call me "Squeaky." ;)

Thanks as usual for all your support, insight, and good ideas!!!

Zoe Girl

8-15-13, 11:25pm

ooh good ideas, I need to write a letter (maybe going nowhere) now that my health insurance is nearly $500 a month and I cannot reach a person like a pharmacist, for a question before 8 or after 5. I

I like the ideas and glad it helped. Honestly I totally forgot how far you can get when you are understanding of their position and don't blame the person who answers the phone. This morning when I talked to someone it made my day that she simply said 'it is okay you are upset, I don't agree with this policy however it is based on ..." It helped me just calm down instead of feeling like no one would help and I had to be angry to be listened to.

KayLR

8-16-13, 12:37pm

Bureaucracy OR incompetence? That is the question. Right now I am steaming over an L & I situation my DH is involved with. He hurt himself on the job. At first he went to the VA's ER, and they said they could help him (this was back in late July) but he couldn't see anyone until September 18 or so. So, he decided to go the L & I route, and the VA washed their hands of him.

So, finally he found a doctor who would take his case (there were only 3 doctors taking L & I cases in our county) and he was seen and also did all the "paperwork" online that he was required to do by his case worker at L & I. The doctor said he would submit his paperwork and get the process rolling for the MRI he needs for the knee.

A week went by with no word. DH calls and they said, "Oh, the doctor hasn't signed the paperwork yet. When he comes in, he'll sign it and we'll fax it in."

Another week went by. (I knew he should have been hounding them, but he's too trusting that people will do what they say.) He called L & I and his caseworker's assistant said the fax was on her desk.

This morning his L & I caseworker called to say he'd been denied because the paperwork/fax had not been sent. When informed of what the assistant said, she said, "No, it's not anywhere on the desk or in your file."

So at this moment, he is storming to the doctor to see if indeed the fax was sent. I am sitting here fuming. All this time he is sitting in pain, not working and it is very, very depressing, discouraging and most of all angering.

SteveinMN

8-16-13, 1:50pm

What's that old saying? "Trust, then verify."

I find myself often straddling the line between making sure I get what was promised and feeling like a noodge. Most times I err on the side of being a noodge, but a nice noodge. It works most of the time.

KayLR

8-16-13, 3:27pm

Well, the doctor's office person now says the doctor (who is on-call) took the paperwork with him (out of the office) and never left it signed with them. DH really let them have it in no uncertain terms. They immediately got on the phone to try and reach the dr. DH said if he didn't hear from them today, they could expect to see him Monday. This is way unacceptable. I guess they have no system for tracking, no tickler file, whatever. If he hadn't gone in there today in person, who knows how long it would have gone on!

nswef

8-16-13, 4:05pm

Congratulations Squeaky!