View Full Version : Is this anything to be concerned about?
As promised, I'm deleting this post and replacing it with this pic of Dad and son in their kilts outside of Kirkpatrick Chapel this afternoon. It was an absolutely beautiful day!! And memorable ceremony.
http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp734%3A4%3Enu%3D32%3C9%3E3%3C4%3E%3A3 3%3EWSNRCG%3D3976%3B%3A%3C%3B89337nu0mrj
Wow catherine......that's alot to deal with! Don't be ashamed at all, for trying to find out more about her.
It IS pretty strange. As far as her reaction to her ex's suicide, she seems to lack affect. How did she know that your DS had just broken up with his girlfriend when she showed up the next day? And she was the one to propose?
I can't put it into words, but I would be concerned too. She sounds like a user to me (uses people without much concern).......but that might be reading too much into it when I don't know her.
I feel your pain, as my DS is in a relationship that seems to be nothing but trouble, but unfortunately, when they're adults........they make their own decisions and have to suffer the consequences.
Have you told him exactly how you feel? That's what I would do..........and then (as hard as it is), let him be responsible for his choices. Good luck catherine. I know, as parents, we never quit worrying about our children.
Hi, Cathy, thanks. Yes, you really did nail the lack of affect thing. I tend to be very reserved, but she was totally emotionless after she told me about her ex, and there am I with tears streaming down my cheeks and dumbfounded. And yes, she did propose to DS. We have expressed some concerns to DS (DH was a little more pointed than I typically am--I left my concerns generic because I didn't want to express doubts about her and risk alienating DS).
I do wish DS and soon-to-be DDIL well and I certainly hope all works out well for them. Thanks for the support, Cathy
My first thought was she has a mental illness.
My second thought was the more you tell someone not to be with the person they currently think they love, the more they will cling to that person and turn away from you.
Stand by to help pick up the pieces a few years or months down the road.
iris lilies
8-20-13, 10:05am
This situation would be far less worrisome if there was no baby in the picture.
I wonder how long she was divorced from the older guy before his death? If it makes you feel any better I can construct a situation in my head where the ex's death wouldn't impact that much on my decision to get married, were it me. I am good at compartmentalizing and am considered a mentally healthy person! But then, I wouldn't be rushing into marriage let alone getting pregnant, so it's hard for me to relate to the entire thing. Also don't judge her about her "lack of emotion" in telling the story of her ex's suicide. You have no idea how many times she told the story with tears. Or perhaps she's not a cryer. Not being a cryer myself, I get annoyed when I hear stuff like that and think "what, I'm supposed to break out the tears to suit YOU?"
Anyway, I wish you well in keeping an eye on this situation.
catherine
8-20-13, 10:37am
Thanks, reader & IL,
She was supposedly divorced for 3 years and remained amicable.
IL, I do relate to what you're saying about compartmentalizing and not being a cryer. My DH does all the crying in the family, and he cries daily. Last time I cried was when MIL died 3 years ago. So that alone does not raise big red flags--it's just all these things put together... I guess I'm just trying to make sense of it--that's all. reader--I am definitely going to be supportive and welcoming. As I've said to DH, there is no way this event is going to push anyone in the family away.
Of course they could be soul mates and have a wonderful life together, married for 70 years with 6 kids. You never know. Just like you catherine I get concerned with my adult kids (one more than the other). But what can you do? It's their life to live as they see fit and if that includes some decisions that seem impetuous to us...well, so be it. I'd also guess that their conversations with each other include a little more depth than those with parents so DS probably has some insight you don't. With him being 35 its probably time to step back a little further even though that is really hard when you believe he is messing up. You obviously don't want to alienate DS so the only real option is to just be there when he needs you, for better or worse.
Simpler at Fifty
8-20-13, 10:58am
I wonder if the baby is even his.
I think you did good being generic. I also think once is the exact number you're allowed to do this without pushing DS away. My experience as a psychoanalyst is that people will always choose the one they're at the beginning of a relationship with over anyone who make their objections known--and they do choose. It quickly becomes either/or. Best to remember we all have to make our own mistakes and hopefully learn from them. Obviously this could be an expensive one, emotionally and financially for DS, but I would try whatever ounce of distance I could keep emotionally from it--the more you identify with him, the more you will be hurt, and you shouldn't have to be a casualty of this. Also, the number of people who are worried about this sounds like people may be winding each other up more by talking about it--it needs to be less a focus, whatever distraction that takes. I also think that doing things that support or help create healthy aspects of their relationship is a good option.
Well, two ways you could go with this. One, delve into her past, via public records -- easy enough to do -- and obsess. Two, drop it. It's your son's life, and keeping a very open, supportive, loving connection nearly guarantees that IF things fall part, he will turn to you precisely because you did not choose the first option I mentioned.
It is incredibly hard to hold back when things look bad. Awfulizing, obsessing about worst case scenarios, all these are just thoughts. Thoughts, especially about the future, are not real life.
And... People who may be mentally ill can get well. People who have babies under dreadful circumstances rally & raise healthy children. Our children can and most definitely will make choices that we find incomprehensible. It is their life, and none of really knows what's best for them, except our unconditional love. Truly unconditional. Easier said than done!
Well, two ways you could go with this. One, delve into her past, via public records -- easy enough to do -- and obsess. Two, drop it. It's your son's life, and keeping a very open, supportive, loving connection nearly guarantees that IF things fall part, he will turn to you precisely because you did not choose the first option I mentioned.
It is incredibly hard to hold back when things look bad. Awfulizing, obsessing about worst case scenarios, all these are just thoughts. Thoughts, especially about the future, are not real life.
And... People who may be mentally ill can get well. People who have babies under dreadful circumstances rally & raise healthy children. Our children can and most definitely will make choices that we find incomprehensible. It is their life, and none of really knows what's best for them, except our unconditional love. Truly unconditional. Easier said than done!
+1
Assume and remind everyone that each has the wisdom to know and act what is right for each self and the baby. Take care of yourself and help your DH remain detached about this.
We never know what another needs to learn in his/her journey through life that will be needed down the road.
I would have to echo what Simpler-at-Fifty said. If the baby comes 'early' I would seriously question the paternity.
As others have said it could be just wonderful or it could be a gawd awful mess for the next 20+ years. Hopefully a nice middle ground.
SteveinMN
8-20-13, 12:04pm
I don't remember weighing in on the last thread, but I find the whole situation a little concerning. But, as everyone else has pointed out, it is DS's life. And, as Mark Twain pointed out, a man who picks up a cat by the tail learns a lesson he can learn no other way.
Very shortly after my ex-wife and I split, I met a friend of friends who somehow divined after meeting me briefly at a party that I was "the one" for her. She was just out of a 20-year marriage herself. She had many attractive qualities; I could envision a future with her. But I ended our relationship after a couple of months because I knew I had "work" to do (she did, too, I thought) and I could not do it with pressure to commit permanently to the relationship. Within six months or so, she married another guy (!). In hindsight, I think I saw signs of another motive. But she and her DH have been together for more than a decade now. So either she really is a great judge of who's right for her or it's really really important to her to maintain that particular appearance. I don't mean that to sound callous. Apparently intuition (not quite the right word,but...) works for some people. I can't knock it just because it isn't the way I'm wired.
I can't speak to becoming pregnant so soon. It seems unlikely your son's now-wife's biological clock is ticking loudly at her age, but maybe there's another reason for this that you simply haven't heard about yet.
As for the missing on-line presence, I have a lapsed Classmates entry, too. I decided I didn't want to keep my info out there on multiple sites which I didn't even look at, so I yanked Classmates, Plaxo, and a few others. And I know several peers who've never had Facebook or LinkedIn or twitter accounts. That may just be her. She does not seem to be the kind of person who lives her life very visibly. Or it may be she seems placid on the surface but is paddling like mad beneath the surface of the water and you haven't yet been granted that view.
As you said, individually, each item seems like nothing. I certainly share your concern. I suspect more will come out in time and I certainly hope you don't end up helping DS pick up the pieces. But I think you've done about all you can do here. Just welcome her as warmly as you can. Things will unfold.
catherine
8-20-13, 12:07pm
As I waffle around with accepting what I can't change, changing what I can, and seeking wisdom to know the difference, thanks to y'all--redfox/razz, you are right on. Larknm, yes there was some internal family gossip--fueling the flames that happened here, but that's behind us now. [and Cecilia/SimpleratFifty: the specific sequence of events might cause one to reasonably raise that as a possibility, but I'm turning off the gas on that thought.)
From what you have shared with us, catherine, it would raise an eyebrow or two with me. However, I learned a very hard lesson early in life. Dh and I met in July and married in October - when I was only 18. Those who said it would never last, you're too young, blah blah, whatever... the judgments were hurtful and NEVER forgotten. (Many forgiven, though). Since we have been married for 31 years I think they were wrong, lol. The lesson is one heard often - if your opinion is not asked for, please don't share it.... if you can't say something nice, keep your mouth shut. Simple words, so hard to follow, especially when it's our children!
AmeliaJane
8-20-13, 12:34pm
I agree with above posters. While you may be right about the hinkiness of the situation, right now the best thing is to back off, both for the baby and your son. If everything you fear is true, you want to make it as easy as possible for your son to turn to you if things implode, especially with a baby in the picture. And if not, then pursuing all this is just setting you up to distance yourself from your son and your grandbaby.
For everyone's sake, I hope this is just an example of the weirdness and messiness of life sometimes, and not anything darker. Maybe your DIL to be is just really discreet about her social media presence! Many people could stand to follow that example...
catherine
8-20-13, 12:59pm
When DH and BIL were discussing this, BIL reminded us of when he got married, very quickly, at a civil service to a girl who ultimately just wanted a green card. The marriage lasted maybe 18 months.
My MIL was a VERY vocal person--she was a union administrator and could stand her own with the best of any union official. She NEVER was shy about expressing her opinion and she was absolutely like a mother bear when it came to protecting her Scottish clan. But, when BIL told her about his plans, all she said was, "I hope you know what you're doing." And that was that. She let them live in her home until the girl summoned a taxi and just left while BIL was away at work one day. I never heard MIL badmouth her. So, that's a good lesson to learn.
Of course, fathering is one part biological contribution, and 99 parts daily involvement, love, and committment to the child.
rodeosweetheart
8-20-13, 1:54pm
"They also told me that they had made a decision to get pregnant. (I'm assuming this decision predates the suicide by just a couple of weeks). She said that they hadn't "done it" at all, but when they made the decision they had done it "three times." (A little TMI, IMO) And they went very soon after to get a home pregnancy test and boom--they were pregnant."
This seems pretty important to me, that they had decided together to have a child.
So I would take that into consideration as you think about the situation. He came to that decision, too.
He is not a passive party in this, so I think the suggestions about respecting his decisions are really, really good.
There is no way of telling how it well end up, but with a baby on the way, I would want to do everything I could to support them, and keep my mind off of the negative aspects that I perceive in the situation.
And boy is that hard to do, speaking as mom of three grown sons, lol.
Very tough situation, Catherine, but you are right to refrain from getting involved. If you are on intimate conversation terms with your son, you might consider seeing if any of this makes him concerned. But I can't see that you can do anything other than hope for the best, and be there for your son if things go south. I loved this line - so true - from Steve: "...as Mark Twain pointed out, a man who picks up a cat by the tail learns a lesson he can learn no other way." There's a similar line in Beryl Markham's biography West With the Night: "I didn't want to rob you of your right to make mistakes." This is his journey to take. Hugs to you, though!
Well, two ways you could go with this. One, delve into her past, via public records -- easy enough to do -- and obsess. Two, drop it. It's your son's life, and keeping a very open, supportive, loving connection nearly guarantees that IF things fall part, he will turn to you precisely because you did not choose the first option I mentioned.
I would listen to Redfox there.
There's no *point* in you spending emotional and intellectual energy on "concerning" yourself with the matter. The parties involved are adults, any effort on your part to influence the situation at this stage is unlikely to end well for anyone.
As to the timing of the child - who knows. Worrying about who is "the real" parent isn't *your* concern. Would it change how you treat your grandchild in any way, if both parents claim it as theirs?
As to the lack of Internet/social media history, I know plenty of people who leave almost no trace in the online/social media world, yet they are real people with real lives.
Give them some space and support.
Echoing all of the good advice here so far as far as taking a back seat to getting involved in your adult son's relationship.
But one thing you mentioned struck me: that she'd been here in the U.S. for 20 years. Is she not a U.S. citizen? If yes, having a child in the U.S. (aka an "anchor baby") is important for her to be able to stay if she's not a citizen and the marriage doesn't work out. Sorry that sounds cynical but it does happen.
Best of luck to all of you.
Just for me, I have found I could not save my son(s) from their choices no matter how much I thought I could. It was a day I stood taller and felt the weight off my back when I realized that.
Good luck to all.
Well, you guys helped me through that moment of unease (and honestly, it was a brief moment, fueled by a sleepless night). Of course I will support my son and embrace this wedding and child with great enthusiasm. I've never done anything differently where he's concerned--from the time he was 17 and took off to go snowboarding by himself at Mammoth, CA to the time his best alternative was to drop out of high school at 16 to the time he left to be a ski bum in VT with $5 in his pocket to the time he decided on a whim to take the PGA Players Ability Test to become pro (and passed it with the lowest round of the day) to the time he decided to go to law school and work full-time simultaneously and we've supported him through his very interesting selection of girlfriends of all different flavors ranging from neuroscientists to pole dancers to ministers to Broadway actresses. This son has always been an example of life on steroids, and that's one of the things I really love and respect about him... so I can't do anything but go along for the ride and enjoy it!
Thanks again, all!
Ha ha ha! I have a son like that!
And my daughter, in her 20's, has no social network 'presence' to speak of. She goes to plenty of sites, posts on boards, etc... but never under her name. And she detests Facebook, My Space, or other of those types. I suppose if someone really wanted to track her down she has a presence of sorts through the University, but just cut and dried stuff.
I would try to embrace the whole thing. Or at least pretend to, for my families and sons sake. I would chat with my son and tell him I really want to get to know DIL better. Make lunch dates, or have her/them over frequently. Invite her on little shopping trips, etc...You never know. The girl may be wanting such contact but really doesn't know how to initiate it. And then I'd make an effort to actually get to know her.
Not saying she is an enemy, at all, but you know the old saying.."Hold your friends close, and your enemies even closer." The motivation and outcome is the same.
Sounds like he's quite the epicure and adventurer. a sort of hungry, zest-for-life person. what a joy he must be, even if he does cause a few grey (or lost!) hairs. :)
Everything always works out fine, no matter how trite that statement sounds every time I say it.
Yes, Zoebird, and he just got his law degree, so he has something in common with you!
The ceremony today was just beautiful and simple. Couldn't have been better.
All does work out..
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