View Full Version : Freshman girl dies at I.U............really sad. :(
I.U. is in Bloomington, Indiana. A girl from a local town went to college on Tuesday. Thursday night she went to a party off campus and fell down the basement steps. Her "friends" (even though she was semi-conscious), put her to bed and supposedly checked on her through the night. But in the morning she was unresponsive. So......almost 7-8 hours after she fell, they called 911. She died.
They haven't determined if she was intoxicated or not yet....but that's sort of irrelevant. Why the hell would kids not call for help when she fell??? She no doubt bled into her brain and could have very possibly been helped and lived if they'd called 911 when she fell.
This just makes me sick.
catherine
8-24-13, 11:46am
That is incredibly tragic. I think a lot of people in general, never mind young and immature adults, have a hard time calling 911. They don't want to overreact to a situation that might not be serious.. of course it's better to be safe than sorry, but a lot of people don't want the attention or they are in denial about the seriousness of situations.
I'm reminded of Natasha Richardson who fell and hit her head skiing and rejected offers to call 911 until it was too late.
I feel bad that those kids will be living with the consequences of their inaction for a very long time and I certainly feel terrible for the girl's family.
Her friends likely didn't realize the extent of her injuries. Teens don't have brains yet fully wired, and the last part to become fully myelinated is the frontal lobe -- where impulse control & long term thinking reside. This truly sounds like an accident, and no one to blame.
That is incredibly tragic. I think a lot of people in general, never mind young and immature adults, have a hard time calling 911. They don't want to overreact to a situation that might not be serious.. of course it's better to be safe than sorry, but a lot of people don't want the attention or they are in denial about the seriousness of situations.
I'm reminded of Natasha Richardson who fell and hit her head skiing and rejected offers to call 911 until it was too late.
I feel bad that those kids will be living with the consequences of their inaction for a very long time and I certainly feel terrible for the girl's family.
That's true. One place I lived an older man collapsed in the parking lot. He insisted he was fine and talked everyone out of calling an ambulance. The next morning he died in his home. OTOH, he may have very much preferred to die in peace than having drastic and painful intervention in a hospital.
Her friends likely didn't realize the extent of her injuries. Teens don't have brains yet fully wired, and the last part to become fully myelinated is the frontal lobe -- where impulse control & long term thinking reside. This truly sounds like an accident, and no one to blame.
If she had been drinking, the other kids may have attributed any symptoms to the effects of alcohol. In my admittedly limited experience a college party without at least some alcohol would be unusual.
Yes, calling 911 is scary. And hindsight is always 20/20. There are so many times in life, that after the fact, you think why the hell did I do that? Or why didn't I do that? At the time you do what seems right, and it isn't always.
I've called 911 3 times. Once because my dad told me to. In hindsight it probably wasn't required and it resulted in an ambulance bill that my parents couldn't afford easily. But I was only 13 and I did what dad said. The 2nd time, I think I waited too long to call. I wish I'd have called sooner. I was a neighbour, not directly involved. Don't want to get into the details, as the incident still bothers me.
The third time was a few months back. I called for myself. In hindsight, I didn't need to go to the hospital. But when I called I was in the worst pain of my life. When my husband realized what I'd done (he wasn't there at the time) he was kind of upset as he didn't know if our insurance would cover it, and he knew that I ended up not needing to go. But at the time, it made perfect sense to me. I don't regret making that choice.
The people in the story did what they did. I'm sure they regret it. But I don't think it's fair to say that anyone of us would necessarily have done any better in the situation.
Seriously, call 911 if you have a concern. Any significant fall counts as "a serious concern". We really don't mind showing up just to say "hello" and see how you are doing.
Don't wait until it goes this far...
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-E4kX34mEJPo/UhEDVVq-ndI/AAAAAAAAIc8/TetdP0D-EB8/s720/Awesomized.jpg
Like Refox said, these kids' minds are not fully mature. They also haven't had alot of experiences. Its for sure that the people who "checked on her" occasionally through the night will no doubt be haunted by their choice for the rest of their lives.
I'm really tormented by this......having taken 2 children off to college. All the preparation, the shopping, the planning, the excitement.........crashes to an abrupt end. Just too tragic.
Anyone who ever loses consciousness for even a short time, should go to the ER immediately. It sounds as though the poor girl was already dead in the morning, when they went to check on her.
My heart aches for her family.
Anyone who ever loses consciousness for even a short time, should go to the ER immediately.
Please though, in most places, call 911, don't head to the ER yourself.
I have a high school roommate who did that. He died on the side of the road.
It is not just kids that need lessons in the use of 911. My parents and inlaws don't understand that you don't drive someone with a serious sudden condition to the emergency room yourself. We have had the discussion numerous times and they both are so uncomfortable with making the call and the "fuss" as they call it.
Miss Cellane
8-24-13, 6:25pm
This is sad.
But from what I've witnessed, completely understandable.
She was with a bunch of kids she'd just met at her college. She couldn't have known them very well, nor could they have known her. So no one around the girl would know how she would act if drunk, or if she was acting normally or not after she fell. No frame of reference.
It was a college party, and it was off-campus. So even if it was a dry campus, all the rules were off at the party. I have to believe there was alcohol there--even if the girl didn't drink, some of her friends most likely were. Alcohol can impair judgement. Perhaps if everyone involved had been sober, things might have been different.
It's their first week at college. Tons of parties. The reality of classwork hasn't hit yet. No one is thinking along the lines of "this could be dangerous." They're out for a good time, and some people are just not going to see potential danger signs when they are determined to have a good time. Honestly, since the kids had all just met, I'm just glad some of them were responsible enough to make sure she got home and into bed. I've seen situations where kids were left, drunk and passed out, in frat houses and "party houses," while their "friends" went on to the next party. They'd wake up the next morning, with no money, no friends and no idea where they were. Heck, I had to go and rescue my freshman year roommate a couple of times when she'd been out partying. I'd get a phone call Sunday morning from a very hungover roomie and have to trek out to a different college and find a strange frat house and get her home.
You are also talking about kids in the 17-20 year old age range. I'm not sure that at that age, I knew enough to know that all head injuries should be checked out by a doctor, or what the symptoms of trouble after a fall would be. Just not enough life experience.
rodeosweetheart
8-24-13, 8:59pm
My son's girlfriend was sexually assaulted in her first three days at college, at one of those parties.
If you have college freshman, please, please, please talk to them about how dangerous the current environment is on campus.
No doubt alcohol was involved.
My son's girlfriend was sexually assaulted in her first three days at college, at one of those parties.
If you have college freshman, please, please, please talk to them about how dangerous the current environment is on campus.
No doubt alcohol was involved.
Please also - if you have daughters, teach them to recognize troublesome situations, and how to defend themselves, starting very early in their life. My 16-year old daughter will not go gently into that good night...
She usually wears one of these hair pins made for her by a good friend of mine in Thailand, who is an AMOK! instructor - you can imagine the uses:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OjK9M0vYdSo/UhlYgrUam5I/AAAAAAAAId4/DY1qjVn_zlo/s800/IMG_7951.jpg
And if you have sons, for goodness sake teach them not to rape. Seriously. It's your job. Do it.
It has always amazed me how crazy kids go when they get to college. Why do you think that is? I think my own children did fairly well. I talked alot to my kids every day about everything. If anything, I erred on the side of telling them things that scared them silly, as far as what could happen to them while doing stupid things ;)
But......accidents can happen. Its my understanding that this was an A student who was liked by many people. Its just a tragedy and I can't imagine the pain her family must be in.
And if you have sons, for goodness sake teach them not to rape. Seriously. It's your job. Do it.
YES YES YES!!! Sexual violence is a learned behavior. Our sons can learn to respect women.
YES YES YES!!! Sexual violence is a learned behavior. Our sons can learn to respect women.
I usually arrange to be fencing with real rapiers or sabers with my daughter when a Young Lad arrives at our house to "hang out" with her. If I've planned ahead, I try to have a Very Large Machinegun disassembled prominently on the way into the "hanging out" area. And of course, they have to walk past the Wall of Axes to get in...
Young Lads who visit seem super polite. I had one come up to me the other day and ask me if it was OK for him to ask my daughter out to a dance. Before he asked her.
Now, I'm not so approving of his patriarchal assumptions, as she's perfectly capable of handling these things herself. But I still kept a grave and serious face on when discussing his plans....
Something I observed when I went to an international boarding school was that the North American students (well, and to a certain degree the Central and South American students, but the less so with the Brazilians and the Argentinians, where drinking seemed to be more a part of the family culture) pretty much went crazy with access to alcohol in the first term. Whereas the European students had, for the most part, either already gone through that whole drinking to excess thing and gotten over it, or else never really found any reason to go through it at all because they were raised in a culture where alcohol wasn't made into this taboo thing that you had to sneak around or wait until you are 21 to get.
I have allowed my son (now 12) to have sips of beer and wine to see how it tastes. As predicted, he did not enjoy it. I hope it helps lessen the allure to make it a normal part of my kids lives, not some mysterious substance they can't wait to get their hands on.
And I would guess that in at least 90% of sexual assaults on/around campus, alcohol or other drugs are involved.
It has always amazed me how crazy kids go when they get to college. Why do you think that is?
IMHO it's because kids go from daily accountability and supervision ("Did you get your homework done?" "Make sure the laundry gets done." "What time will you be home?") to freedom limited only by funding, a short personal history of experiences, and, sometimes, geography (college in the middle of nowhere). Kids in college also typically meet a far more diverse cohort than they experienced in high school, with different experiences and mores. And what kid at that age does not think (s)he is invincible?
This is one of a huge list of things kids are usually never "taught". I picked up first aid in Boy Scouts, I don't think I would have learned much otherwise. First Aid as a required course in high schools I think would be awesome.
Not trying to brag........but I spent sooooo much of my time when the kids were growing up (and now too), teaching them about all sorts of things/issues. I took my job as parent-teacher very seriously. I was always amazed at how many of the other kids in their schools were essentially raising themselves. I appreciate that I was sooooo lucky to be able to stay at home with the kids and not have an outside job. But I like to think we would have still talked about all these things. I wasn't a perfect parent by any means.....especially with my hermit tendancies, but I'm very happy with the education at home (about life, etc.) that my kids got. And I have very little patience with parents who have children, then let them raise themselves. That comment has NOTHING to do with my original post about the girl who died, but some of the comments afterwards.
Miss Cellane
8-25-13, 11:56am
Something I observed when I went to an international boarding school was that the North American students (well, and to a certain degree the Central and South American students, but the less so with the Brazilians and the Argentinians, where drinking seemed to be more a part of the family culture) pretty much went crazy with access to alcohol in the first term. Whereas the European students had, for the most part, either already gone through that whole drinking to excess thing and gotten over it, or else never really found any reason to go through it at all because they were raised in a culture where alcohol wasn't made into this taboo thing that you had to sneak around or wait until you are 21 to get.
I have allowed my son (now 12) to have sips of beer and wine to see how it tastes. As predicted, he did not enjoy it. I hope it helps lessen the allure to make it a normal part of my kids lives, not some mysterious substance they can't wait to get their hands on.
And I would guess that in at least 90% of sexual assaults on/around campus, alcohol or other drugs are involved.
Definitely this happened at my college. It was the 1970s, 18 year olds could drink legally. It was a women's college in a big city. The first week we were there was just freshmen, taking placement exams and getting orientation. MIT was having rush week at the same time, and the frats wanted women at their parties, so that they would look like a cool frat.
The women on my floor were staggering home at 3 am and throwing up in the hallways. Several times I had to sit and watch someone as she slept, in case she threw up in her sleep. The two women from strict Catholic homes who had gone to strict Catholic girls high schools came to college determined to shed their virginity as soon as possible. It took them less than a week, and both ended up in tears.
I didn't drink back then and found the two frat parties I went to incredibly boring, so I stayed back in the dorm and did homework. (I also started college when I was 17, so I wasn't legal. Knew better than to risk it.)
I don't get the impression that things have changed much. There's this sense that you are supposed to do all this crazy stuff in college, and you are excluded from the group if you don't participate. And it is difficult for teenagers to be outsiders.
It has always amazed me how crazy kids go when they get to college. Why do you think that is? I think my own children did fairly well. I talked alot to my kids every day about everything. If anything, I erred on the side of telling them things that scared them silly, as far as what could happen to them while doing stupid things ;)
But......accidents can happen. Its my understanding that this was an A student who was liked by many people. Its just a tragedy and I can't imagine the pain her family must be in.
I think a lot of this is because we regulate, and control our kids lives so, they don't know how to make decisions for themselves. With our kids, we started when they were very young, allowing them freedom to make choices for themselves as they aged. By the time they went to college, it wasn't a 'sudden freedom' from chains of any kind, but a gentle movement into a 'next phase'. We had the added benefit/worry of our kids growing up overseas, in Japan and Europe, where expectations are somewhat different. Freedoms too. In Europe, kids can drink beer at 16. Imagine our sons consuming joy when we moved there from Japan when he was just turned 16! So, instead of trying to fight it, we embraced the culture, had a lot of 'responsibility' talks, and turned him loose.
When he graduated from high school, unlike a lot of his friends, he wanted to return to the states to go to university. Was it the hardest thing I've ever done leaving my 18 year old son and returning to Europe? You bet! But we had faith in him and his grounding. Besides, he was a beer snob by this time and would ONLY drink German or Irish beers, so his vulnerability to the college party(with cheap beer) was tempered by that. I guess it was a case of 'been there done that' for him.
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Young Lads who visit seem super polite. I had one come up to me the other day and ask me if it was OK for him to ask my daughter out to a dance. Before he asked her.
Now, I'm not so approving of his patriarchal assumptions, as she's perfectly capable of handling these things herself. But I still kept a grave and serious face on when discussing his plans....
Well good for you. Even though you don't subscribe to this formality, I'm guessing the young man was drilled in it by his own parents. It's good you recognized, and respected, his effort.
I think the biggest mistake parents make is in thinking their kids don't really listen to them. They do. They really do, even when you don't think they are listening.
I think the biggest mistake parents make is in thinking their kids don't really listen to them. They do. They really do, even when you don't think they are listening.
Yup... I remember when my DH and DD had a big fight over what she was wearing before a friend picked her up to go out. DH gave up... but unbeknownst to him, she snuck upstairs and changed into something more appropriate and then ran outside to where her ride was waiting... really quickly, so that he wouldn't see that she had changed.
I have to agree with peggy.
Part of why i didn't go wild was because i was raised by parents who were very open about how their partying in university wasn't great for them long term, and also highlighting stories of how it can lead to ruin/failure/problems. So, I had a good 'fear' of it.
But, even so, my parents did prepare me for university in specific ways. During my senior year of high school, I was given a lot more freedom -- i had no curfew, I just had to ask and give information about how long I wanted to be out and when I would be home. Sometimes it was yes, sometimes it was no -- but it was usually yes.
The real big one my parents did was a Pearl Jam concert. My friends were *so* jealous because it was on a Tuesday night. On the wednesday following, my friends and I had three exams. In senior year, if you got X grade in a class, then you didn't have to take the mid-year final. This was usually calcuated based on 3 tests -- and this was the third test in those three classes. Anything lower than a B on those tests, I'd have to take the finals.
my parents thought this was a *perfect* opportunity for decision making. Yes, I could go to the concert and stay out late after the concert if I wanted (i had a few older, out of school friends with whom I went to the concert, and they were having an after party), BUT I had to go to school and take the tests the next day, no matter how bad I felt. :)
I opted to not go to the after party, but I did go to the concert. I didn't know -- being a youngun -- that the concert hall was FILLED with marijuana smoke. I went home positively HIGH, and then ate a chocolate pie while chattering at my mom non-stop. LOL I went to bed probably around 1 am or so, and my mom got me up at 6:30 as per usual. I had the *most massive* headache. My mom informed me it was becasue of the marijuana (people now tell me that it was probably the pie. lol).
So, i went to school. I had this amazing head ache, I was light and sound sensitive, and I was in pain! But, I took those three tests. I got 3 Ds. LOL I had to take the finals.
I don't regret my decision about going to the concert. I loved it and had a great time. But my overriding memory of it was really the freedom that my parents gave me to make that decision for myself and to accept the consequences of having to take the finals.
What I learned is that it is ok to do things on a tuesday night and have positive experiences -- even if there are negative consequences on the back end -- so long as you accept those and can move forward with them. So, in university, i might have decided not to do something fun right before an exam (i don't remember ever doing it again, really), but that it is ok to go if it's really important to you.
I also learned that marijuana is weird -- smells terrible and gives you bad headache hangovers and aren't worth it. I have never done MJ -- just that contact high -- but goodness knows that when I went to concerts and parties later in life, I recognized that smell and went to a well-ventillated area. LOL
I second the idea of teaching basic first aid. I think the myth is that if a person is still breathing, then they can "sleep it off."
I read an article about a father who lost his college-age son to this same thing: a frat party where his son's frat brothers thought he was okay just sleeping it off on the couch, until he stopped breathing at some point. It was too late to revive him. Sadly, they think if he'd been taken to the ER right away and treated for alcohol poisoning he would have survived.
The father has made it his mission in life to lecture at schools to beg students to at least take someone like that to the ER.
After months of doing these lectures, he met a young male college student who admitted to him that he'd listened to one of his lectures and had that scenario happen, and the student took the passed out person to the ER which saved his life. The father was so grateful because he realized that his lectures had at least saved one life.
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