Happy surprises when budgeting food (with envelopes)

[catherine]

As some of you know, I am a) deep in debt; and b) a Dave Ramsey fan and follower.

I had a major hitch relative to my MIL's house.. long story, but it REALLY set me back.

So, mid-August, after finally selling the house in May and then doing some financially questionable moves like updating the kitchen and also going on vacation (which is a family tradition--although this year we went for one week instead of two to save money), I decided to go full boat, back in the saddle with Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover. As Mr. Money Mustache says, I'm going to try to get rid of debt as if my hair's on fire. Gazelle-intense, as DR puts it.

I've tried once more to use the envelope system, and this time it's working better. For one thing, it REALLY helps with the "reluctant spouse" syndrome. DH does NOT relate to spreadsheets one bit. But somehow, money in envelopes is a more motivating visual cue for him. For another thing, I'm just really slowing everything down. My spending has slowed, my errands have slowed, I'm just trying to really pay attention--before with the envelopes things just got all messed up too fast and I didn't have the patience for them. Now, I'm practicing patience.

Anyway, I decided to budget $367 a month for food. This amount is actually food stamp budget for two people in my area. Now, I do "cheat" because I also have a seasonal CSA box I've already paid for ($299 for the season--about $14 a week's worth of local vegetables)

But, after two weeks, I see that we are actually eating BETTER on this budget, due to our rigorous shopping and attention to cooking.

On my $85 last week I bought:
Farmer's market:
--A grass-fed chuck steak
--Two poussins pre-marinated in herbs
--fresh, local mozzarella and ricotta
--Crimini mushrooms
--Onions
--Corn (for 4 meals--we LOVE summer corn)
--Fresh, free-range eggs

Supermarket:
--Bread
--Soda for DH
--Lemon ices
--Sour cream
--Butter
--Bananas
--Frozen wild salmon

In addition my CSA provided (so that's an extra $14)
--tons of tomatoes
--Tomatillos
--Peppers, bell, jalapeño,
--Cucumbers, regular and lemon cucumbers
--Squash
--Eggplant

Wow, what a bounty for under $100!!!! DH has said that we're eating like kings! I'm thrilled! We've made a fabulous stew, a sweet/sour chutney to go with the salmon, salsa (traditional and green with the tomatillos), awesome omelets, ratatouille, gazpacho, Cucumber barley salad, grilled veggies, tomato caprese, .. etc. etc. We've had more than enough for one week. Almost no carb "filler." And grass fed and organic.

Maybe some would think $100 a week is high, but I think it's really good bang for the buck.

[try2bfrugal]

Maybe some would think $100 a week is high, but I think it's really good bang for the buck.

Food costs are also dependent on where you live. $100 would a week would be good for us.

It looks like you have some great menus going.

[Tussiemussies]

Hi Catherine, we are also in NW NJ and for us two vegetarians, even though we are not eating many snacks, just some crackers, and we buy basics -- we find that at Shop Rite that our food bill totals around $200.00 each week. We don't eat cheese or eggs of late. I do use a lot of soymilk and yogurt. This last trip was the first time I purchased any coffee in order to make iced coffees instead of buying them at Dunkin Donuts, which we only did once. I really don't know where we could cut down...any ideas?

[Stella]

That sounds yummy Catherine! Great job!

[catherine]

Hi Catherine, we are also in NW NJ and for us two vegetarians, even though we are not eating many snacks, just some crackers, and we buy basics -- we find that at Shop Rite that our food bill totals around $200.00 each week. We don't eat cheese or eggs of late. I do use a lot of soymilk and yogurt. This last trip was the first time I purchased any coffee in order to make iced coffees instead of buying them at Dunkin Donuts, which we only did once. I really don't know where we could cut down...any ideas?

Well, I'm only on Week 2 of my new plan, so we'll see if it's sustainable. I can't judge what's right for you... but I can only share my experience that being limited to the cash in an envelope really helped me focus and plan ahead. I'd think, OK, well I have that chutney that's left over from dinner, so if I make X all I need to do is pick up Y.

I've depended on the internet to find recipes that use up as many of my CSA things that are possible.

I used to be vegetarian and still am mostly vegetarian, so I'm not buying much meat--as I said, I think I bought 2.5 lbs of meat for the week. I ate the chuck steak because it was grass fed and I know the farmer (shoot, I might have been introduced to the cow on a trip last spring!) so I was comfortable with the ethics (and better nutrition) of it.

The only thing I'm trying to work out is how to handle stocking up. right now I'm buying "as needed," but it would be good to be able to take advantage of sales. I'll try to work in one or two sale items that I buy more than 1 of this week and see how it works out.

The internet really is a fabulous resource: that's where I found the tomatillo salsa receipt, the cucumber barley recipe, the gazpacho, et. etc. And I definitely make substitutions and additions to allow me to use stuff up.

Oh, a question for you: do you lump in cleaning products and toiletries in your grocery budget? I don't, so that could be a difference.

[try2bfrugal]

I used to be vegetarian and still am mostly vegetarian, so I'm not buying much meat--as I said, I think I bought 2.5 lbs of meat for the week. I ate the chuck steak because it was grass fed and I know the farmer (shoot, I might have been introduced to the cow on a trip last spring!) so I was comfortable with the ethics (and better nutrition) of it.

The only thing I'm trying to work out is how to handle stocking up. right now I'm buying "as needed," but it would be good to be able to take advantage of sales. I'll try to work in one or two sale items that I buy more than 1 of this week and see how it works out.

The kids and DH eat a lot of meat, so it makes it hard to keep the budget down. I usually buy 2 bulk packs of whatever is on sale for about $25 total, and that won't last us the week. Plus we go through a lot of eggs, cheese and lunch meat. They just have the body types that stay healthier on a higher meat diet and they are far from overweight, so I can't really change that.

I think the stocking up gets solved by looking at expenses over a month instead of a week. We used to stock up at Costco but never saved money even over the long term, so we stopped that except for a few items, like organic ground beef. I think the packages are so large at Costco maybe we were wasting food, or tempted to buy more processed food. I am not really sure. I do stock up at the loss leader sales at the local warehouse and retail stores, and that does save a lot of money over a month's time.

I do think the envelope method would make it easier for us to stay on budget, but then I wouldn't get my 2% cash back on the credit cards, so I try to just track everything in a spreadsheet instead.

[pcooley]

Great Job! I don't think $100 a week is high. Somehow we've crept up to $250 a week for a family of four, so I'm working to reel it back in. I budget $600 a month, but I've never used a physical envelope. I've never been able to get my spouse on board with the idea of a budget. I get excited by the challenge of having $5 left and a week to go. "I've got soybeans. I'll make soy milk and skip the cow milk. There's still plenty of beans! Etc. Etc." My spouse responds with "You know I don't like soy milk, oh, and I need some coconut oil, I'm almost out. Didn't you see the list?" If it's on the list, it must be purchased. I'm not sure an envelope will make a difference to her, but it might be worth a try.

[pcooley]

It could be, too, location. Tonight, we're eating rice and dal. It's my favorite standby dinner, (though the kids can be pretty indifferent to it). From the coop, I bought a little over a pound of lentils, (because we're out), a little over a pound of yellow split peas, (for the dal), and two onions. That came to around $10. I went to Trader Joe's, bought some milk, Thai simmer sauce, (to simmer some tofu I have in for another dinner), chutney, (for the dal), two apples, some coconut oil (the list), carrots, and celery. That came to $22.61. So just dropping by the store for one dinner, and a few staples, came out to almost $33. That seems like a lot to me.

[catherine]

It could be, too, location. Tonight, we're eating rice and dal.

Can you give me your recipe for dal? I LOVE Indian food. We have tons of great Indian restaurants here in Central Jersey, but I've never been brave enough to make an Indian dish myself.

[pcooley]

I make very simple dal. I think the recipe was on the web, and I've probably simplified it further. I chop up one onion, sautee it in some olive oil in the bottom of my pressure cooker with some cumin seeds. When the onion is soft, (or not if I'm feeling impatient), I put in a cup of yellow split peas. Here's where it's tricky. I need either three cups of water or four. Too little, and it burns, too much, and it's watery. I've never reached an amount that seems perfect. I'm going with 3.5 cups tonight. I add about a tablespoon of curry powder to that, and lock the pressure cooker in place. At our altitude, and with a good pressure cooker, I cook it for about eighteen minutes. Then I dump in a bunch of spinach, let that cook for a minute or two, and then serve it over brown rice with mango chutney.

I know I would save money if I made my own mango chutney. I do make mint chutney and coconut chutney, but I really like Trader Joe's mango chutney - probably because they put more sugar in it than I would ever admit to eating.

[Spartana]

You might want to check out the 99 cents only store as they have lots of stuff for a buck. Giant bags of rice and beans, cans and jars of everything imagiable - including fresh fruits and veggies - for a dollar.

[SteveinMN]

Can you give me your recipe for dal?
catherine, I got this recipe at a demonstration Indian-cooking class. Probably would not have made it without tasting it first, because I'm not a fan of lentils or of split peas, really. But this stuff rocks! Even DW likes it. It reminds me of a dry winter squash. Easy to make. I think Raghavan has since published the recipe in one of his cookbooks.


Chana Dal
recipe by Raghavan Iyer

1 cup chana dal (yellow split peas)
1/4 teaspoon turmeric
1 slice of fresh ginger, about the size of an American quarter coin, peeled
2 tablespoons butter
1 teaspoon whole cumin seeds
1 tablespoon coriander seeds
1-2 green chili peppers, chopped or minced (I use a seeded jalapeño and heat-averse DW doesn't even notice it)
1 teaspoon chopped garlic
1 cup chopped tomatoes (can use canned tomatoes)
Salt to taste
1/2 cup unsweetened coconut (_not_ baking coconut)
1/4 cup chopped cilantro (for garnish)

(n.b., Indian cooking depends heavily on variations in seeds. If the recipe says to crush a seed before adding it in, do so. If the recipe says to toast a seed before adding it in, do so. There are subtle and not-so-subtle differences in the balance and taste of a dish based on treating the seeds differently.)

Rinse the dal in several runs of cold water and set aside. Combine the split peas, 3 cups of water, the turmeric, and the ginger in a large pot. Bring to a boil, reduce heat, and simmer until the peas are tender (about 10-20 minutes). Add water and stir as necessary to keep the dal at the consistency of a thick chowder.

In a mortar and pestle (or a spice grinder, I guess, if you can clean it well enough), grind the cumin, coriander, and chilies until the seeds are well-crushed. Set aside.

Heat the butter in a frying pan. Add the garlic to the melted butter and saute for a minute. Add the chopped tomatoes, the ground spices, the salt, and the coconut. Simmer about 10 minutes. Transfer this mixture to the large pot and simmer all ingredients together for about 30 minutes, stirring occasionally.

Garnish with cilantro before serving.

[Tiam]

You might want to check out the 99 cents only store as they have lots of stuff for a buck. Giant bags of rice and beans, cans and jars of everything imagiable - including fresh fruits and veggies - for a dollar.

Not here abouts. Nothing fresh and the bags of rice and beans are not large at all. I have to be quite careful about food in a dollar store. It's often not as good a deal as the market.

[Tiam]

It could be, too, location. Tonight, we're eating rice and dal. It's my favorite standby dinner, (though the kids can be pretty indifferent to it). From the coop, I bought a little over a pound of lentils, (because we're out), a little over a pound of yellow split peas, (for the dal), and two onions. That came to around $10. I went to Trader Joe's, bought some milk, Thai simmer sauce, (to simmer some tofu I have in for another dinner), chutney, (for the dal), two apples, some coconut oil (the list), carrots, and celery. That came to $22.61. So just dropping by the store for one dinner, and a few staples, came out to almost $33. That seems like a lot to me.


10 dollars for two pounds of legumes and two onions seems very high!

[catherine]

Thanks for the dal recipes, paul and Steve! Can't wait to try--After I get a pressure cooker, mortar and pestle! (no I know I don't NEED a pressure cooker, but I do have to figure out how to crush the seeds.. I'm thinking a coffee grinder isn't going to do it. Maybe I'll check out prices for a mortar and pestle.

[Tiam]

Thanks for the dal recipes, paul and Steve! Can't wait to try--After I get a pressure cooker, mortar and pestle! (no I know I don't NEED a pressure cooker, but I do have to figure out how to crush the seeds.. I'm thinking a coffee grinder isn't going to do it. Maybe I'll check out prices for a mortar and pestle.


I don't have a pressure cooker. A spice grinder works too. I've never made dahl. I'm not a huge fan of Indian food so I'm a bit hesitant.

[pcooley]

Lentils and split peas are both $2 a pound at the coop. I think onions are about $3 a pound there. I always *think* that I should be able to buy some lentils and an onion for a dollar or two. It feels like it use to be that way twenty years ago when I was in my twenties.

I can pretty reliably take whatever I think the cost of something will be -- whether groceries, bicycle tires, or a new transmission for a car -- and multiply by four to get what the actual price is.

[try2bfrugal]

Lentils and split peas are both $2 a pound at the coop. I think onions are about $3 a pound there. I always *think* that I should be able to buy some lentils and an onion for a dollar or two. It feels like it use to be that way twenty years ago when I was in my twenties.

Are those organic? Nonorganic onions are 50 cents a pound and split peas and lentils can be had for under a $1 a pound on sale at our pack it yourself store.

[Blackdog Lin]

I agreed with Tiam, that $10.00 for the products mentioned seemed awful high - so I checked at our local small-town grocery yesterday. One pound green split peas (yellow are not offered in our part of the country): $1.29. One pound lentils: $.99. And the good sweet onions (non-sweets were cheaper): 3 lbs./$3.69. So 2 medium onions and both legumes would cost me around $3.50.

I guess I need to be more grateful to live where I do, with the grocery prices that we have.

[Tiam]

Lentils and split peas are both $2 a pound at the coop. I think onions are about $3 a pound there. I always *think* that I should be able to buy some lentils and an onion for a dollar or two. It feels like it use to be that way twenty years ago when I was in my twenties.

I can pretty reliably take whatever I think the cost of something will be -- whether groceries, bicycle tires, or a new transmission for a car -- and multiply by four to get what the actual price is.


perhaps the organic factor is reason for the high price.

[Dhiana]

I love Indian food and have been making my own dishes at home without a pressure cooker. I follow the recipes as best I can but I just haven't found some of the spices listed here in Japan yet so I muddle through as best I can and it still turns out great :)

It's like Americans making apple pie...the basics are the same but every family has their own balance of ingredients that they like best. It's the same with Indian foods, families create what works best for them. I add pumpkin(kabocha) to our dal dishes which I have never seen in any of our recipe books.

Go for it Catherine and enjoy the results :)

[lhamo]

Catherine, I got my mortar and pestle at Ikea -- weren't too expensive.

Dhiana, you might want to check and see if Iherb.com delivers to Japan. I'm not sure how they are for spices, but they have a lot of whole foods/natural foods, etc. at reasonable prices and (to China at least) decent shipping costs. They are my fall back source when I run out of things like Bob's Red Mill products and Justin's hazelnut/chocolate spread.