1 in 8 workers will never retire

[flowerseverywhere]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/18/retirement/workers-never-retire/index.html?hpt=hp_t3 Came across this article and I thought it might be inspiration for everyone to continue their efforts to live below their means, pay off credit card and other debt and aspire to be financially independent. I can't imagine doing some jobs that require lifting, shiftwork, standing etc. much past your mid sixties no matter how physically fit you are. Plus the stress and commute some of us endure.

[razz]

It does take careful evaluation of the value of an expenditure over a lifetime to build up a decent nest egg. A decent nest egg does not mean millions of dollars either just a careful choice of a retirement lifestyle to fit your revenue income.

[ToomuchStuff]

A new global study finds nearly one in eight workers expect they will never be able to afford to retire fully. That is a bit different from the title. There is a difference between not being able to afford it, and CHOOSING not to retire, because you enjoy what you do.
I have a 70 year old machinist friend, who still loves what he does, and works to fund fun projects (built his hot rod, and plane with no debt) so it doesn't come out of living money.
Also know a couple in their 80's that sold their house to keep from loosing it, and moved in with her daughter (who she is a Realtor with). When the market dropped, she wasn't selling houses as fast and they nearly lost everything. (borrowed money from a mutual friend who they still owe, to keep a float)

[redfox]

I am one who will be working till I drop, or become disabled, whichever happens first.

[Jilly]

Razz, I did carefully prepare for retirement, but when I fled my home last year, all of that was lost. So, I spent my summer taking classes and gaining certification to support the volunteer work I already do. It is my most sincere hope that I can use it to find a job. Without having to drive long distances or move.

I will always do something, whether it is more volunteer work or that hoped-for employment. I am doing fine, but it would be wonderful to have money to afford more than the bare essentials.

[dmc]

I surprised that 7 out of 8 can retire. Many don't plan for it. Or wait way to long to start saving. Its much more fun to spend the money now than put it away or invest it for the future.

[try2bfrugal]

I surprised that 7 out of 8 can retire. Many don't plan for it. Or wait way to long to start saving. Its much more fun to spend the money now than put it away or invest it for the future.

There are many reasons people can't retire. The main reason for bankruptcy in the U.S. is medical bills, even among people who have health insurance because of high out of pocket costs and out of network charges.

Not everyone has the same opportunities in life to get ahead and be able to save. A whole generation worried about retirement isn't just because of poor savings habits. If some people do have poor savings habits, maybe it has something to do with billions of dollars of highly tested, targeted and manipulative advertisements everywhere encouraging people to spend money on this or that consumer product. There aren't a lot of ads for simple living or saving money.

Health care costs, colleges out of touch with actual job opportunities, middle class jobs going overseas, trillion dollar educational debt (once known as good debt), pensions being replaced with poor 401K choices with high fees, the economy melt down caused by the too big to fail banks, wealth shifting from the bottom 99% to the top 1% and many more factors have all played a role.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Well like the OP said it's inspiration for everyone to continue their efforts (not to judge others on how they live their lives based on belief systems that are no way to live unless you're insane).

Of course all the things we don't control that could potentially go wrong far dwarf the things we do control (your control your actions - but not necessarily the end result - and *that* *is* *it*.). If the present looks dicey and troublesome look at the future anhd the potential threats, if you dare. Yikes. A heck of a lot of dangers arrayed against most if anything went wrong.


If some people do have poor savings habits, maybe it has something to do with billions of dollars of highly tested, targeted and manipulative advertisements everywhere encouraging people to spend money on this or that consumer product.

true that. Though as I've said I personally basically don't consume media (yea for the most part).

[flowerseverywhere]

of course this short article has shortcomings. We all need to keep in mind that the retirement that our parents knew, with pensions and good social security and medicare is rapidly dissolving. Few people have traditional pensions anymore, and our health care costs are skyrocketing. I will be surprised if social security payments don't start to be pared down. The purpose was to just point out that all the frugal living encouragement we get here can only help us to live as we age. Unfortunately, you can do everything right and still end up on the short end of the stick, but at least people here are trying.

[Zoebird]

My thoughts on this are many.

First, retirement isn't really a right. It's quite a nice thing to have -- and I think it's a great goal and exactly what people should work toward in a variety of ways.

But the reality is that not everyone is going to get there for whatever reasons -- possibly because they didn't run their financial lives right (by their own choices and actions). And possibly because they never really earned enough to save in the first place -- which has to do largely with various things around cost of living and valuation of certain work, etc.

But the working poor? They are unlikely to be able to retire -- even if they do everything 100% right.

Beyond all of this, though, there are those things that everyone is talking about: issues of COL and working poor/fair wage; financial and health disasters that are beyond our control and drain away all of our hard saving; the very reality of disability and the inability to work to support yourself.

And for this, I believe in things like a living wage, bankruptcy court, and social safety nets. I think most people do, it's just that there's currently a big question of "where" those should be. Many say they are too high; many say they are too low.

[catherine]

I am one who will be working till I drop, or become disabled, whichever happens first.

+1

Make that two of us

[flowerseverywhere]

And for this, I believe in things like a living wage, bankruptcy court, and social safety nets. I think most people do, it's just that there's currently a big question of "where" those should be. Many say they are too high; many say they are too low. yes, that is such a big discussion now. I know many people who view the affordable health care act as a way for the loafers and freeloaders to get free care, despite taking advantage of the portions that benefit them. The welfare queen myth driving a Cadillac while having multiple kids to just get more money. even social security, which people are forced to pay into is considered an "entitlement", while the income disparity is growing. interesting times.

[SteveinMN]

I know many people who view the affordable health care act as a way for the loafers and freeloaders to get free care, despite taking advantage of the portions that benefit them.
Perhaps someone here has seen a survey of the percentage of people who do not have health insurance who oppose Obamacare? I don't like it much myself because I think we should have a single-payer system (like every other developed country in the world and like Medicare and VA, neither of which I see people moving to abolish) instead of an insurance-company-driven system. But I'd be surprised to see many people over the age of 25 without coverage preferring to keep it that way.

My experience is that most people enjoying the benefits of government spending are barely aware of where the money comes from. Makes it hard to have a real honest discussion about how tax money is spent.

[Tammy]

"And for this, I believe in things like a living wage, bankruptcy court, and social safety nets."

Yes. A guaranteed minimum income would be good too.

[ToomuchStuff]

I didn't expect to live past 30 but that is another subject. I expect to work until I die, but I don't expect to have a long lifespan, Growing up and being interested in history, I asked questions that made people say I was talking crazy, like "historically people kept on working until they died, granted for a long time it was farming (self sufficiency), but is there any proof that retirement will stay?" and If the baby boomers are "the largest generation (most numbers), then that means they outnumber their kids, correct? If so there will be a lot of empty houses and the prices will have to come down. What about their medical and housing (with condo's and such), since their won't be enough people then to take care of them all.

[catherine]

My belief is that retirement is a moving target.

It is both a new-fangled and old-fashioned paradigm. It came about in the early 1900s with the Industrial Age. Before that, 65 as the magic age for that gateway to leisure just did not exist. Social Security reinforced the paradigm by providing a safety net for those who didn't have the means to retire. Meanwhile, life expectancy grew.

So now, when people can't fit the mold or don't want to fit this mold, it's big "sky is falling" news.

I think there are so many creative options with which to approach getting older, work and leisure other than "If I don't have a million dollars by the time I'm 65 and can't spend the rest of my life fishing in Florida I might as well go shoot myself."

This is not sour grapes because of my personal situation--I've pretty much always felt that way. It's one of the reasons I quit my job six years ago, at age 55, and went freelance. I really wanted to shake the golden handcuffs no matter what the financial cost.

There are many, many things I enjoy doing in life, and I'm sure I can monetize some of them to keep me going happily and hopefully healthily into old age.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think if you live in an industrial society that produces vast wealth where machines do much of the work that not having more leisure makes zero sense (now if we went back to a non-industrialized society for sustainability or something, and I neither argue for or against it, that would be another animal!). But really most human tasks automated so humans barely even have to do them, and we're not supposed to gain any leisure from it? That's pretty silly society you've got going on there.


Social Security reinforced the paradigm by providing a safety net for those who didn't have the means to retire.

It was probably to get them out of the workforce (the oldsters). Because it was a depression, it's not like there was enough jobs for everyone anyway. To at least remove some people from the workforce made room for the younger people that needed jobs.


It's one of the reasons I quit my job six years ago, at age 55, and went freelance.

I don't think the jobs most people do actually lead to freelance opportunities (they are usually way to narrow for one thing), it would for most people require new training in some field they could freelance in. I do think about this, the truth is I have very minimal clue what field I could freelance in.


I really wanted to shake the golden handcuffs no matter what the financial cost.

don't think I'd do it if it meant as a direct consequence I would never retire. If it was: burn up all savings and get into debt just to shake golden handcuffs. That would be quite a choice there.


There are many, many things I enjoy doing in life

there are many many things I enjoy doing in life, unfortunately work (doing whatever you have to just for money) has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any of them and does nothing but detract from the things (and people :( ) I actually genuinely care about in life. At the start of a 3 day weekend I'm all sweetness and love and hope and optimism for everyone, on the average Monday I'll let the world know I hate them and that everything sucks.

Is there a chance I can retire? Yep and so I'm not going to give that hope up as easily as the hopeless people do. Why wave the white flag now? Is there a certainty? Nope. Certainty with the world the way it is - haha - that's hilarious.

[Gregg]

I am one who will be working till I drop, or become disabled, whichever happens first.


+1

Make that two of us

I'll make it a hat trick.

[try2bfrugal]

My belief is that retirement is a moving target.

It is both a new-fangled and old-fashioned paradigm. It came about in the early 1900s with the Industrial Age. Before that, 65 as the magic age for that gateway to leisure just did not exist. Social Security reinforced the paradigm by providing a safety net for those who didn't have the means to retire. Meanwhile, life expectancy grew.

So now, when people can't fit the mold or don't want to fit this mold, it's big "sky is falling" news.

I think there are so many creative options with which to approach getting older, work and leisure other than "If I don't have a million dollars by the time I'm 65 and can't spend the rest of my life fishing in Florida I might as well go shoot myself."

This is not sour grapes because of my personal situation--I've pretty much always felt that way. It's one of the reasons I quit my job six years ago, at age 55, and went freelance. I really wanted to shake the golden handcuffs no matter what the financial cost.

There are many, many things I enjoy doing in life, and I'm sure I can monetize some of them to keep me going happily and hopefully healthily into old age.

I agree with this. We actually could retire and do just leisure stuff. Then we thought about and decided that type of life probably really would not suit us. We don't have the golden handcuffs any more but we still work for ourselves so I don't see any reason to stop and drain our savings.

My personal goal in life is not to not have to work at all, just to not have to work at a job I hate for 60 hours a week and never see the sun except on weekends. We have hobby jobs that make money so why stop? Even if these ended I would probably do something like dog walking and sitting, more urban hometeading, build tiny houses to sell, take classes in converting lawns to edible gardens and do contract work on that, or make crafts to sell on Etsy.

One thing I have thought about is getting a financial planning certification but not being a traditional financial planner but one that follow the Your Money of Your Life type model for people interesting in simple living.

[JaneV2.0]

...
there are many many things I enjoy doing in life, unfortunately work (doing whatever you have to just for money) has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any of them and does nothing but detract from the things (and people :( ) I actually genuinely care about in life.
...
My sentiments exactly. I stuck out a HSSJ only because it came with a pension (thank you, union) and escaped at the tender age of 47. I had some lean years, made many missteps, and if I had it to do over again I'd make some changes, but I wouldn't have worked a minute longer.

[Zoebird]

NZ was one of the first countries to provide pensions for elders, and it happened in the early 1900s. It was largely because there seems to come a time when you cannot work any longer (disability), but you can live well enough for a few years anyway. People who couldn't work and weren't wealthy enough to support themselves for a bit caused particular social problems that exist due to poverty -- and NZ sought to abate that poverty (which is sort of the point of most of these social systems).

So, they created a system where people who were old and could not work would have housing, food, and medical care to abate the social and public health problems related to poverty. It wasn't about old people having leisure time in their 'golden years' so that they could go fishing or play lots of golf. It was so that, overall, the problem of poverty would be abated, and that these individuals would have a healthy, dignified end-of-life time.

And that, really, is the point of "retirement" in that "original-ish" form. Otherwise, you just worked until you couldn't work any longer and hoped that family took care of you or you were wealthy and knew that that wealth would take care of you.

I also love this concept of "golden handcuffs" because it's something that DH and I talk about a lot, as well as MMM for that matter. Using some MMM principles and planning out our lives going forward in the US, we have a clear path to returning to independent work (rather than necessarily working for companies).

Our desire is to work long term, ie "never retire" because we love our work. But, we want it to always be on our terms -- so the combination of living frugally, planning carefully, and saving well (plus fingers crossed everything going well) will allow us to do this, while also still earning income over time to add to our pile.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Of course people who can't work in their old age hasn't gone away (especially if people have done physical labor all their lives - the desk jockeys are more likely to be spared except for the carpal tunnel :)), nor has poverty (though yes old age programs mitigate old age poverty).

Most people actually collect SS at 62. This isn't to their advantage as far as maximizing payout from SS, the lifetime payoff would be more for most if they waited until full retirement age to collect. They either can't work due to physical problems (and this is not an insignificant number) or can't find anyone to hire them at that age due to age discrimination probably. Or they hate their jobs enough to voluntarily get out early and collect even if getting out means several decades of poverty? That's an interesting one, though I can't rule it out entirely (I uh know the feeling). But really how many of these early collectors are retiring for golf (at the public golf course? maybe it's not too unaffordable - not like I've priced it recently). But it's not mostly the better off who are taking the early collection.

[danna]

A lot of the desk jockeys I know including myself have come away from 25+ year with bad backs.
So ApatheticNoMore you are right a lot of people can not work in old age, at least not at the work they know.
And, yes that is what I did; started collecting CPP (from Canada) at 62 just to get out of the job.
Was probably not my best idea but, I am making it work so far.....

[ToomuchStuff]

The welfare queen myth driving a Cadillac while having multiple kids to just get more money. even social security, which people are forced to pay into is considered an "entitlement", while the income disparity is growing. interesting times.

Not sure where you get this is/as a myth. There are those that abuse the system, as I believe there are those that abuse ANY system.
It can/has been done in a LEGAL way, doesn't make it right.

I think if you live in an industrial society that produces vast wealth where machines do much of the work that not having more leisure makes zero sense (now if we went back to a non-industrialized society for sustainability or something, and I neither argue for or against it, that would be another animal!). But really most human tasks automated so humans barely even have to do them, and we're not supposed to gain any leisure from it? That's pretty silly society you've got going on there.

I am not sure where your equating leisure time with retirement? Granted, we work less then we would have in pre industrial days, but to me that would be leisure time, which isn't the same as being retired. If it were, and you brought someone in time from that period, they would consider us to be at the minimum, semi retired.



So, they created a system where people who were old and could not work would have housing, food, and medical care to abate the social and public health problems related to poverty. It wasn't about old people having leisure time in their 'golden years' so that they could go fishing or play lots of golf. It was so that, overall, the problem of poverty would be abated, and that these individuals would have a healthy, dignified end-of-life time.

And that, really, is the point of "retirement" in that "original-ish" form. Otherwise, you just worked until you couldn't work any longer and hoped that family took care of you or you were wealthy and knew that that wealth would take care of you.

Our desire is to work long term, ie "never retire" because we love our work. But, we want it to always be on our terms -- so the combination of living frugally, planning carefully, and saving well (plus fingers crossed everything going well) will allow us to do this, while also still earning income over time to add to our pile.

Where the problem lies, that I see, is people believe too much tv, and think when they retire, their standard of living, will actually go UP. Not enough people have realism.
Also, see enough older people, who are retired and since so many of their friends have died or moved elsewhere, they get bored. Being out in the public, engage/working a bit, has been good to a lot of people I know. It keeps the mind active.

[Zoebird]

I think one of the big differences is that when these pension programs started, people lived about 5 years after retirement -- not 15-30 years after retirement. And that's part of the issue.

Also, the social security that does exist isn't really liveable with COL and what not, so most people ahve to continue working to maintain their current quality of life.

[HappyHiker]

Not sure doing work you love is so bad...when I left the high stress life of advertising, I became a freelance writer. Still do some of that, but also do pet-sitting and volunteer at the library. I love all three..retirement may not be in my future--ever. But loving my life right now means I don't much care about traditional retirement.