View Full Version : The Mall Masacre in Nirobe.
I'm getting really sad. You know.......even when I really hated someone, I don't think I ever wanted to kill them, let alone totally innocent people that I didn't know.
Sometimes I fear its all coming apart. So much hate and violence.
What do these types of people want, by killing so many innocents? I mean really........what do they actually want? (and I'm including all of these types everywhere).
I do understand wars, like the 2nd world war........when a really awful person is doing awful things. But does it all boil down to people who are mentally unstable, or have a huge chip on their shoulders, meeting up with more people like them and deciding to make some point? And the Muslim extremists, for example.......what do they ultimately want? I just don't get it. And its starting to depress the hell out of me.
Yossarian
9-23-13, 12:16pm
Sometimes I fear its all coming apart.
Pretty much been that way since day one.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AQWC_-chMIc/URLlb0w8VcI/AAAAAAAADsg/CZ0OYmkodM4/s1600/Dawn+of+man+3.jpg
I wish we did only have bones to fight with. The "killing fields" would be more level.
I wish we did only have bones to fight with. The "killing fields" would be more level.
No. The strong would prevail. Women and smaller men would be at the mercy of large aggressive men. Minorities would be wiped out by majorities.
Cathy, you asked what the Muslim extremists want? Simply total domination and everyone Muslim or else the infidels dead.
Surely that's not a surprise, since they've actually been saying that for years. I'll them at their word since their actions dovetail with their words.
Hugs to you, CathyA.
Muslim extremists (NOT muslims), Westboro Baptist Church, white supremacists, vicious dictators, insert-your-favorite-here.....they all want to see the world look more like THEY want it to be, and are willing to sacrifice others to make it so. There always have been nasty unbalanced people, and there always will be. Nowadays, the media makes sure you hear about them more than ever before. It is sad, but you can't let it change the goodness that you bring into your world.
All I can do is breathe deep and go do something kind for someone. Do my best to keep tilting things back the other way.
How is Muslim "extremism" defined?
Bae.........well, then that's what going to happen now too.
I just don't understand the total domination thing.
Maybe when we become "civilized", and distance ourselves from some of our "innate natures", these things are less likely to happen?
Maybe total domination is what we're all naturally wired for?
But in nature........is there really any animal that wants to dominate everything in the world, or just its little section of the world? And even then, there are lots of animals/bugs/etc. around that it doesn't pay any attention to. I just don't understand humans.
Pug..........that's good advice. Thanks. :)
Maybe I should have used the term "terrorists" instead of Muslim extremists, since the behavior seems the same for all of them.
in nature........is there really any animal that wants to dominate everything in the world
I have wondered about this too. Sometimes I think most humans have become so distanced from the natural world that they have lost their humanity if that makes sense.
I know pinkytoe........sometimes I even start to wonder if the crazy theory of us being aliens is true!
But in nature........is there really any animal that wants to dominate everything in the world, or just its little section of the world? And even then, there are lots of animals/bugs/etc. around that it doesn't pay any attention to. I just don't understand humans.
I have wondered about this too. Sometimes I think most humans have become so distanced from the natural world that they have lost their humanity if that makes sense.
I think if you are asking these sorts of questions that perhaps is a sign that you need to spend more time in a natural setting, observing and participating in nature, red in tooth and claw...
flowerseverywhere
9-23-13, 5:51pm
When has the world not had murder and war? Never. From the earliest of times cavemen fought each other, and it has progressed through the centuries. It is a lot easier to kill with accurate guns, as opposed to bows and arrows, and before that clubs and rocks. Battles over religion, race, land to settle or graze on, animals etc. have always been in existence. Even reading about the founding of America. Capturing Africans, marching them to the sea and chaining them below ships was horrific. They say you could smell slavers miles away, the stench of human waste and death. The Cambodian killing fields, the massacre or driving out of another religion, all part and parcel of the human race, and we are the civilized ones. I wish it wasn't so but from the tiniest ant to the largest animal it's dog eat dog out there. all you can influence is the tiny sphere around you.
IshbelRobertson
9-23-13, 6:02pm
The massacre of innocents in a Mall in Nairobi is being blamed on Somali Islamists.
Here in the UK we seem to differentiate innocent Muslims groups from terrorists by using the term Islamists for the latter group.
All I know is that the Somali Islamists are murderers and according to news reports some of their number may contain British-born Muslims.
you need to spend more time in a natural setting
I understand that nature is violent and that beings exist to eat each other or kill to reproduce. What I am saying is there is a whole generation of young men who are disconnected from the natural world. Their world is constructed now of fake worlds on TV and computer screens and the age old traditions that guided them are gone. They are no longer "grounded" but adrift in what humans do when they go awry without the anchors they have known.
I understand that nature is violent and that beings exist to eat each other or kill to reproduce. What I am saying is there is a whole generation of young men who are disconnected from the natural world. Their world is constructed now of fake worlds on TV and computer screens and the age old traditions that guided them are gone. They are no longer "grounded" but adrift in what humans do when they go awry without the anchors they have known.
I certainly have trouble grasping why people do things like this, but part of my theory actually goes back to the tradition of tribal culture where tribal alliances and enemies were formed and war and conflict were a part of that tradition. Such was the case with the Native Americans who were intimately connected with nature.
I would agree that TV, computers, and the global access to electronic media plays a role in disconnecting one from reality and that it trivializes the value of human life and romanticizes violence.
But I really don't understand and I tend to think our western "civilized" reasoning is distant in basic rationale from an Islamic terrorist.
All I know is that the Somali Islamists are murderers and according to news reports some of their number may contain British-born Muslims.
There seem to have been some Americans amongst them as well.
iris lilies
9-23-13, 9:23pm
I certainly have trouble grasping why people do things like this, but part of my theory actually goes back to the tradition of tribal culture where tribal alliances and enemies were formed and war and conflict were a part of that tradition. Such was the case with the Native Americans who were intimately connected with nature.
Funny you should say that. As I was watching The Interrupters (about a group in Chicago who intercedes in potential violence in the "hood) I was thinking of the parallels between ghetto culture where an eye for an eye and revenge killings mimic what happens in third world tribes where revenge killings and tit-for-tat violence seems an expected part of life.
IshbelRobertson
9-24-13, 4:41am
There seem to have been some Americans amongst them as well.
BITING THE HANDS THAT FEED .....?
Agree with bae. My fear - world almost ends, and the few surviving humans left to repopulate consist mostly of antisocial personality disordered people.
ApatheticNoMore
9-24-13, 10:00pm
Agree with bae. My fear - world almost ends, and the few surviving humans left to repopulate consist mostly of antisocial personality disordered people.
world notices no difference .... :laff:
I'm thinking it might not be the greatest thing to mix and match cultures.
Yes, I know some of you live in areas where there are all different cultures and everyone gets along....and that's great!
But it seems like it can sometimes lead to basic differences which some people just can't tolerate.....and violence ensues.
Supposedly in some cases, these are younger people who have been raised here by parents that came from another culture. The parents have "melted" into the melting pot, but the younger generation feels isolated and starts to become involved (because of the internet), with radicals in their parent's previous countries.
So what do we do about it? Is it just a matter of younger kids with too much energy/testosterone/whatever who can connect easily with aggressive/dogmatic people in their parents' old country too easily because of the internet?
I'm just trying to understand.......... I probably never will. There's no doubt way too many factors involved.
I'm just trying to understand.......... I probably never will. There's no doubt way too many factors involved.
Or maybe in any given case there is only one factor involved. In the case of a lone gunman shooting up a school/theater/whatever there seems to be a strong pattern of mental problems. That's far from one size fits all, but certainly a common thread.
In the case of Nirobe it looks like just one more in a long line of examples where one group tries to exert its dominance over another by force. There are examples of that happening every day in some part of the world. Mankind has been at war for as long as mankind has been. In that sense this is nothing more than the latest skirmish. War does tend to evolve. As different weapons and different tactics are proven effective they become more popular until they cease to produce the desired effect. The tactic of storming a mall is scary because most of us end up in one occasionally and most of us think we're safe while we're there. To have that sense of security we feel during a normal activity shattered is terrifying. It gives us a real sense of terror. The people who do these things could be called....what's the word I'm looking for?......
Since that Nirobe attack garnered so much global media hype I think its a pretty safe bet someone else is planning a similar attack in a different part of the world. Terrorism works in part because it forces people to be constantly on guard. OTOH, the only way to defeat terrorism is for everyone to constantly be on guard. Considering the fairly large number of terrorist cells operating around the world and the relatively small number of attacks (and a very small number outside the Middle East) I think our efforts are working fairly well.
The thing about mental illness before the horrendous shootings occur (Sandy Hook, Navy Yard, etc.) is that with all our "rights", how can you intercept someone before they've done more than act weird? That would be a violation of their rights ??
There will always be tons of "mentally ill" people, if they just don't fit in. I'm not sure how to deal with it all.
DH explained the Nirobe shooting this way, saying he wasn't sure it was true, but was thinking this way: The shooters, because of their religion, are very offended by Western ways. And the Mall was a perfect example of Western capitalism, etc. Also, I've heard the shooters were asking people to recite things from the Koran. If they couldn't, they would shoot them. So I guess this was a religious thing. They believe they are honoring Allah by killing all those who don't believe as they "should".
I've never quite understood the killing in the name of "God'- whatever God it is...just seems counter intuitive. I am sure in the Koran there must be some verses about forgiveness, love, etc. Zealots make choices then use religion to justify and it's not just Muslims.
The thing about mental illness before the horrendous shootings occur (Sandy Hook, Navy Yard, etc.) is that with all our "rights", how can you intercept someone before they've done more than act weird? That would be a violation of their rights ??
There will always be tons of "mentally ill" people, if they just don't fit in. I'm not sure how to deal with it all.
DH explained the Nirobe shooting this way, saying he wasn't sure it was true, but was thinking this way: The shooters, because of their religion, are very offended by Western ways. And the Mall was a perfect example of Western capitalism, etc. Also, I've heard the shooters were asking people to recite things from the Koran. If they couldn't, they would shoot them. So I guess this was a religious thing. They believe they are honoring Allah by killing all those who don't believe as they "should".
There are more possibilities than that - one of the reasons given for the attack was retaliation for Kenyan involvement in the Somali civil war.
A simpler one is just money - those who were benefiting during the civil war (war lords and their supporters) are like looking for different income streams. While I think this one is less likely for the actual attackers (money is not a great incentive when you are going to die), I think it's more of one for those in higher positions. And I expect religion is more a way of propagandizing recruits than the actual motivation for those running things.
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