View Full Version : What country are we moving to?
Ok Rob has convinced me the USA is going down the toilet, so where do we move to?
I can get into Canada, last time I looked they want $400,000, but I can do that. But I don't like cold weather. So not for me.
Mexico, has warm weather, I'm pretty sure I can get in, but to much crime and corruption.
Panama looks good, need to look into it.
Costa Rico, I have a friend that owns a home there, says only problem is getting anything done.
Caribbean, nice to visit, not sure I would want to live there.
Monaco, not sure I could afford it.
Ireland, not sure of entry requirements, food is bad.
I really havn't looked to much on this, I'll probably just move to Texas:). I'll just adapt to whatever happens here. I think I'll go buy some gold now. And bullets.
IshbelRobertson
10-29-13, 9:24am
Irish food is bad? Who knew?
Yes, if you eat in some places... But like Scotland, they produce sublime beef, lamb and pork, amazing seafoods and wonderful, seasonal fruit and veg:). They have amazing chefs, too and there has been something of a foodie revolution there in the past twentyfive or so years.
Personally, I have issues with some South American and Caribbean foods... Twice fried stuff and curried goat do not head my list of must have eats.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/25/stress-free-retirement_n_4164908.html
Ecuador is sounding interesting. I'd consider it after I get to travel the US first.
iris lilies
10-29-13, 11:00am
I don't like the idea of south of our borders. Not a warm weather person.
Bulgaria, that's the place. You get European sensibilities without the cost of Europe. We could still grow many of the things that I am used to growing, but I am unsure about lilies.
Irish food is bad? Who knew?
Yes, if you eat in some places... But like Scotland, they produce sublime beef, lamb and pork, amazing seafoods and wonderful, seasonal fruit and veg:). They have amazing chefs, too and there has been something of a foodie revolution there in the past twentyfive or so years.
Personally, I have issues with some South American and Caribbean foods... Twice fried stuff and curried goat do not head my list of must have eats.
OK, it's back on the list. Not sure on their immigration policy.
catherine
10-29-13, 12:16pm
If I were to decide to move, I would consider:
--Canada
--Britain: England or Scotland. DH would definitely want to live in Scotland if we had to leave here, due to family ties, but the pubs might kill him. (and I mean that literally) And I do happen to love British cuisine
--Ireland
--France
--Brazil: Now that I have new in-laws from there, might be worth a thought. Brazil is VERY up-and-coming and the people there are SO friendly. Plus it's so big there's bound to be something for everyone--kind of like the US
Florence
10-29-13, 12:31pm
Canada. I love Canada and Canadians. My MIL was Canadian and we have many relatives in Alberta. But if I had my pick, Vancouver, B.C. Oh my, or rather, eh.
My realistic top of the list is Canada. I'd only have to move a couple of miles, I know the area, the people are nice, I'd get good health care, and pay lower taxes.
My fantasy list is Iceland, Norway, Ireland, the Channel Islands, Scotland, Uruguay, New Zealand, and Texas.
Would someone please tell me who is spinning out this PR on "move to Texas?" It's getting awfully crowded here:(
Would someone please tell me who is spinning out this PR on "move to Texas?" It's getting awfully crowded here:(
Texas - no state income tax, reasonable-ish gun control laws, big hats, lots of cattle. Win.
I think Scotland or Scandinavia. I'm sure the Canadians would LOVE a huge influx of U.S. folks. NOT!
try2bfrugal
10-29-13, 3:02pm
We watch house hunters international for ideas. Amazon Prime has a lot of back episodes for free. If we leave the U.S., we will probably end up in an EU country in either Europe or the Caribbean. France looks really good, especially the cost of living, if you go to the smaller cities and not expensive places like Paris, which is what I would prefer to do anyway.
I am done with the suburbs and ready for an adventure. Part of the fun will be checking out different places. For now we have to wait until the kids are launched and we have a small lock and go place we can leave easily to travel around.
I regret not moving to Europe when I had the chance my sophomore year in college, but Canada would be fine. Texas is safe from me.
IshbelRobertson
10-29-13, 3:15pm
Sadly, the immigration laws for the UK (which includes England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) have been tightened immeasurably in recent years, even for those with fairly recent ancestry ties. The financial burden has also been increased.
Well I'm sure this has already been mentioned but don't forget income taxes in your country of choice. Those Euro countries with all the social services have much higher taxes then we do. For instance Sweden, the country I would live in, has a base income tax rate of 30% for everyone with a max of 57% for higher earners. Pus high payroll (social security) taxes if you are working there, as well s VAT, and taxes on your foreign income - earned and retirement - as well as high taxes on nearly everything else like fuel, purchases, etc... Nice social service but they do come with a price.
Sadly, the immigration laws for the UK (which includes England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) have been tightened immeasurably in recent years, even for those with fairly recent ancestry ties. The financial burden has also been increased.
I was born in Britain to a German Mom (who eventually became a Naturalized US citizen) and an American Dad (who's parents were Swedish immigrants) so think I am eligible for British Citizenship. I'll be at your house at half four for scones with clotted cream :-) :-)
Belize use to have a program that allowed you to have dual citizenship and retain citizenship and a passport in both the US and Belize. Very immigrant friendly too. Too hot and tropical for me but good for you sunny bunny types. I look at www.escapeartist.com for expiate inspiration.
Also remember - the US government does not like you to remove significant amounts of capital from the USA if they think you are going to abandon ship. They will confiscate a good chunk of your wealth as you leave, because the tax people view you as a subject, not a free citizen with the right to political self-determination.
catherine
10-29-13, 4:09pm
Also remember - the US government does not like you to remove significant amounts of capital from the USA if they think you are going to abandon ship. They will confiscate a good chunk of your wealth as you leave, because the tax people view you as a subject, not a free citizen with the right to political self-determination.
Hey, I just found an upside of being broke. The US government would probably throw me a party.
Sadly, the immigration laws for the UK (which includes England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) have been tightened immeasurably in recent years, even for those with fairly recent ancestry ties. The financial burden has also been increased.
I wish the U.S. would do the same, instead of having signs out "Come On Down!!".
I wish the U.S. would do the same, instead of having signs out "Come On Down!!".
http://www.truthdig.com/images/cartoonuploads/lk_statue_500.jpg
gimmethesimplelife
10-29-13, 9:07pm
Texas - no state income tax, reasonable-ish gun control laws, big hats, lots of cattle. Win.Bae, they do say Texas is like a whole other country lol. Rob
try2bfrugal
10-29-13, 9:35pm
I was born in Britain to a German Mom (who eventually became a Naturalized US citizen) and an American Dad (who's parents were Swedish immigrants) so think I am eligible for British Citizenship. I'll be at your house at half four for scones with clotted cream :-) :-)
I am not an immigration expert, but the UK is not like the US - just being born there doesn't automatically give you citizenship. It depends more on your parents citizenship / immigration status in the UK.
You might be able to look into German citizenship, since that is part of the EU, you could live in the UK or another EU country.
iris lilies
10-29-13, 9:40pm
Ok Rob has convinced me the USA is going down the toilet, so where do we move to?
I can get into Canada, last time I looked they want $400,000, but I can do that. But I don't like cold weather. So not for me.
I thought that someone here said they had closed their "investor's class" immigrant status. When I did a brief and lazy Google search today, I seemed to get confirmation of that.
I like the idea of New Zealand but they kicked zoebird out. Still, it's worth investigating, I've always like NZ.
Brazil has some advantages, but have you seen the people there? I look better at Wal-Mart.
Canada's gun laws are crap. TX has better gun laws than where I am now. I guess I'd just.deal with the heat.
Heh Heh. ;)
I am not an immigration expert, but the UK is not like the US - just being born there doesn't automatically give you citizenship. It depends more on your parents citizenship / immigration status in the UK.
You might be able to look into German citizenship, since that is part of the EU, you could live in the UK or another EU country.
This subject I know a little about. In Germany for children born before 1975, the citizenship of the child was determined by the citizenship of the father, even if the child was born in Germany. Therefore if the father was a US citizen, so was the child. 1975 the law changed, and German citizenship could be passed on by a German father or a German mother, regardless where the child was born.
Every country has immigration laws. One cannot just decide to move to another country and stay there indefinitely. The US is no different. One can stay on a visitor's visa for three months, on a work visa longer. If you want to live in the US permanently and legally, you have to apply for an immigration visa. Depending on your qualifications and different quotas for different countries, it usually takes many years, before a "green Card" is issued, which clears you for immigration.
This subject I know a little about. In Germany for children born before 1975, the citizenship of the child was determined by the citizenship of the father, even if the child was born in Germany. Therefore if the father was a US citizen, so was the child. 1975 the law changed, and German citizenship could be passed on by a German father or a German mother, regardless where the child was born.
Every country has immigration laws. One cannot just decide to move to another country and stay there indefinitely. The US is no different. One can stay on a visitor's visa for three months, on a work visa longer. If you want to live in the US permanently and legally, you have to apply for an immigration visa. Depending on your qualifications and different quotas for different countries, it usually takes many years, before a "green Card" is issued, which clears you for immigration. it,s confusing because on the UK home office site it basicly says that if you were born in the UK before 1983 you are most likely a british citizen. But if you were born after 1983 you have to qualify under your parents citizenship.
Found this on wikipedia:
"Under the law in effect from 1 January 1983, a child born in the UK to a parent who is a British citizen or 'settled' in the UK is automatically a British citizen by birth.
Only one parent needs to meet this requirement, either the father or the mother.
"Settled" status in this context usually means the parent is resident in the United Kingdom and has the right of abode, holds Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR), or is the citizen of an EU/EEA country and has permanent residence, or otherwise unrestricted by immigration laws to remain in the UK.[4] Irish citizens in the UK are also deemed settled for this purpose"
But this wouldn't apply to me as I was born before 1983 and even though my parents lived in England for 4 years, they wouldn't be considered "settled". However I did hear that the British Consulate offers a special type of visa for people like me to live indefinetely in Britain but retain their US citizenship. Will see if I can find that. But I did check out the German citizenship and as you pointed out it wouldn't apply in my case but never looked into Swedish citizenship - both my paternal grandparents are from there..
flowerseverywhere
10-30-13, 3:34pm
Before moving to South America I would check out their poverty rates. Along with poverty come things like drug cartels and other crime.
I am not going anywhere. The us has problems but everywhere does. All this gloom and doom still does not take into account how great this country is. Sure there are bumps in the road, but there is no utopia.
I also plan to stay living here - although I wouldn't mind living the ex-pat life in Europe for a few years.
shadowmoss
10-30-13, 5:03pm
Costa Rica, or Panama. Gotta study up on my Spanish, though.
gimmethesimplelife
10-30-13, 9:58pm
My personal votes are for Uruguay and Chile. Both countries have socialized medicine, more time off than Americans, and less of a life is about working to the exclusion of anything else mentality. Ten years ago I would have said Argentina, too, but since the financial collapse there in 2002 things have been kind of corrupt and funky overall - but I find it frustrating that they still have socialized medicine, even after their collapse. And we can't have it here? I don't get that one, sorry.
There are parts of Mexico that are still quite safe and are unlike the media images of Mexico - but you have to do your research, and I understand what is safe now may not stay that way.....A good place to live light in though.
I cast a vote or two for the Phillipines, also. But not Manilla, somewhere outside of Manilla. I'm also casting a vote for Thailand - very interesting and very cheap once you get there. Rob
Southern Philippines have had issues with Muslim extremists for years. Coworker just returned from a visit to family in the southern part. They don't go outside their home without an armed guard.
iris lilies
10-30-13, 10:08pm
My personal votes are for Uruguay and Chile. Both countries have socialized medicine, more time off than Americans, and less of a life is about working to the exclusion of anything else mentality. Ten years ago I would have said Argentina, too, but since the financial collapse there in 2002 things have been kind of corrupt and funky overall - but I find it frustrating that they still have socialized medicine, even after their collapse. And we can't have it here? I don't get that one, sorry.
There are parts of Mexico that are still quite safe and are unlike the media images of Mexico - but you have to do your research, and I understand what is safe now may not stay that way.....A good place to live light in though.
I cast a vote or two for the Phillipines, also. But not Manilla, somewhere outside of Manilla. I'm also casting a vote for Thailand - very interesting and very cheap once you get there. Rob
OMG Thailand! It's fab! But that tropical weather isn't for me, I can't grow stuff.
ApatheticNoMore
10-30-13, 10:58pm
It would have to be a good safe place for a single woman. That's the most important thing. While I have no doubt Canada and so on is :laff: I'm not sure that everywhere in the world is.
I really don't think there is a safe haven from the troubles of the world, but I am routinely surprised at how Canada stays out of the fray. I've traveled through British Columbia and it would be my choice. Maybe Nelson, , the Sunshine Coast, or somewhere around the Okanagan Valley. No big cultural changes, no language barriers, and even though their taxes are high they at least do no go to support a mega military. I'm not sure where the figure of $400,000 comes from as the price of admission, but realistically I'm probably not moving anyway.
I really don't think our country is coming down, but am disappointed that the most prosperous country in the world cannot figure a way to support their failing infrastructure, or compete in education performance, or provide basic health care needs. Things that other less prosperous places seem to have figured out.
I really don't think there is a safe haven from the troubles of the world, but I am routinely surprised at how Canada stays out of the fray. I've traveled through British Columbia and it would be my choice. Maybe Nelson, , the Sunshine Coast, or somewhere around the Okanagan Valley. No big cultural changes, no language barriers, and even though their taxes are high they at least do no go to support a mega military. I'm not sure where the figure of $400,000 comes from as the price of admission, but realistically I'm probably not moving anyway.
I really don't think our country is coming down, but am disappointed that the most prosperous country in the world cannot figure a way to support their failing infrastructure, or compete in education performance, or provide basic health care needs. Things that other less prosperous places seem to have figured out.
It looks like its actually $800,000 now, and the program is on hold for now.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp
My wifes has relatives there, and we may have enough points to get in, they would probably require up to get a job thou. And the weather is still to cold.
It looks like its actually $800,000 now, and the program is on hold for now.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/investors/index.asp
My wifes has relatives there, and we may have enough points to get in, they would probably require up to get a job thou. And the weather is still to cold.
That's pretty interesting. I wonder how they aim to attract people to do their cement work, roofing, and yard work on the cheap.
Maybe I could go as a frostback.
iris lilies
10-31-13, 9:58am
That's pretty interesting. I wonder how they aim to attract people to do their cement work, roofing, and yard work on the cheap.
Maybe I could go as a frostback.
This is the "Investor Class" and that's just one class of Canadian immigration program, there are others.
I would have to know how much the US grabs from us as we leave before I know if we qualify.
That's pretty interesting. I wonder how they aim to attract people to do their cement work, roofing, and yard work on the cheap.
Maybe I could go as a frostback.
I don't know, maybe they just come up to work in the summer. Probably not much roofing or yard work going on in the winter.
I did the worksheets to see if I could go if I wanted to. I could possible get in through the investor class, or because the wife has relatives up there. Now what part of Canada has mild winters, no snow or freezing temps?
That's pretty interesting. I wonder how they aim to attract people to do their cement work, roofing, and yard work on the cheap.
Maybe I could go as a frostback.
I'm guessing they want people to come up that can pay their way in taxes or investments. They don't need people coming up that take more than they put into the system.
pinkytoe
10-31-13, 10:19am
Kind of sad that we have lost hope for our own country. I am staying in the US but not Texas. At least that's my dream. Ideally, I would have two homes - summer, winter.
iris lilies
10-31-13, 11:17am
I don't know, maybe they just come up to work in the summer. Probably not much roofing or yard work going on in the winter.
I did the worksheets to see if I could go if I wanted to. I could possible get in through the investor class, or because the wife has relatives up there. Now what part of Canada has mild winters, no snow or freezing temps?
B.C. baby! But there is likely some snow.
dmv, look, you've got to have some cold weather to kill the bugs. All of those always-warm places are bug city.
iris lilies
10-31-13, 11:18am
Kind of sad that we have lost hope for our own country. I am staying in the US but not Texas. At least that's my dream. Ideally, I would have two homes - summer, winter.
Oh, I'm just pretending. I'm not going to leave. But then, if I DID win the lottery big time I"d move for a time to Yorkshire. From there I could go to Scotland easily and also go to southern England when I needed more sunshine.
ApatheticNoMore
10-31-13, 11:44am
I'm guessing they want people to come up that can pay their way in taxes or investments. They don't need people coming up that take more than they put into the system.
ie anyone who works for a living. Stop being a taker and working, don't you realize that by working you are just taking from the system and giving nothing back?
I'm guessing they want people to come up that can pay their way in taxes or investments. They don't need people coming up that take more than they put into the system.
Or maybe they have enough citizens who are still willing to do hard labor.
I suspect whoever employs immigrants legally would collect taxes and other government imposed fees. As long as it is the same work for the same wage, it doesn't matter if it is an immigrant or a citizen. Though I do get the concept of limiting who comes aboard and not flooding the work force with unskilled labor and creating an artificially low wage rate. Which would seem appealing in the short run but erodes the tax base and lowers the overall living standards so everyone can have cheap sidewalks. Sort of like we've done... sort of.
Now what part of Canada has mild winters, no snow or freezing temps?
Victoria and Vancouver both have quite mild, temperate climates. True story.
IshbelRobertson
10-31-13, 3:24pm
The USA still expects its citizens to pay taxes... Wherever they choose to live in the world, although I believe they have a threshold, below which no taxes are claimed, but the US person still has to complete tax returns!
An American friend of mine who has her own, very successful business here, really resents paying UK and US Taxes. She has dual nationality but is seriously considering renouncing her US citizenship.
ie anyone who works for a living. Stop being a taker and working, don't you realize that by working you are just taking from the system and giving nothing back?
Since they list certain job fields in their application, I assume they want people that can contribute in those area's. They are not looking for unskilled old folks to just drain their resources. Thus you have to have a skill they need, or money.
Victoria and Vancouver both have quite mild, temperate climates. True story.
I'll look into it. But what about the taxes? Cost of living?
I'll look into it. But what about the taxes? Cost of living?
Canada has some nice rules for favorable treatment of your first ~$100k of investment income, probably meant to help out the retired, which if still in effect provide for some interesting possibilities.
Every time I've looked at proposed major US tax increases, Canada has been a win, tax-wise, if I properly structured my income. And you get Canadian health care and ferry service. And the taxes you pay go to useful mostly-moral things, not blowing up people in far-away lands.
Nice place, Canada. They've even cleaned up their gun laws a bit.
Since they list certain job fields in their application, I assume they want people that can contribute in those area's. They are not looking for unskilled old folks to just drain their resources. Thus you have to have a skill they need, or money.
And sometimes money isn't enough either. Many countries that welcomed US retirees and their relatively hefty pensions and retirement income, now shy away from allowing them into their country as permanent residents because they fear the cost to their healthcare system from all the old folks.
It would have to be a good safe place for a single woman. That's the most important thing. While I have no doubt Canada and so on is :laff: I'm not sure that everywhere in the world is.
Oh definetly!! This would be number one on my list - far ahead of healthcare and taxes. The freedom to go anywhere alone, at anytime, and dress pretty much anyway without being accosted or even in danger is one thing I value highly in the US and other first world countries. I've travelled to many thirdworld countries where a woman alone - especially a blonde - especially at night - often lead to too much harassment to live there permanently comfortably. I want to live in a place I can hike or bike or swim or do anything I want alone.
SnakeBlitz33
10-31-13, 9:50pm
I'm honestly not sure if there is a better place anywhere else in the world other then where my feet are planted. I think it's all in what you make of it. Pretty soon people will be rioting against our government - I'm pretty sure of it. Will I take part? I don't know - it depends on if the guberment wants to take my property away and the freedoms that I hold most dear.
Wouldn't you want to take a stand for what you feel is right, rather then backing off and running away?
gimmethesimplelife
10-31-13, 10:41pm
I'm honestly not sure if there is a better place anywhere else in the world other then where my feet are planted. I think it's all in what you make of it. Pretty soon people will be rioting against our government - I'm pretty sure of it. Will I take part? I don't know - it depends on if the guberment wants to take my property away and the freedoms that I hold most dear.
Wouldn't you want to take a stand for what you feel is right, rather then backing off and running away?You raise a fair question. I was raised to believe that fleeing was the honorable way to handle such issues, and as I grew older I questioned everything and this value held up through my questioning process whereas many others did not. I do believe, when and if things get that insane, fleeing is the honorable thing to do.....Rob
ApatheticNoMore
11-1-13, 12:48am
I believe if things get that insane you might not find anyone willing to take you anyway. See how harsh the immigration restrictions everywhere already are. And then for historical reference see how few countries wanted to accept German Jews before the holocaust. The U.S. notably didn't and had harsh quotas, and they were not alone, the restrictions were near unanimous. Such are nation states. Many still managed to flee, those who didn't ...
Too historical? Haitian refugees then? Noone wants them no matter how horrible the conditions they flee. So yea if you're going to live somewhere might as well fight the good (nonviolent) fight (although living in a global empire -the U.S. - is a tricky one).
I actually caught this chart the other day showing how many Canadians come to the US for healthcare. Pretty interesting.
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2012/june/5-myths-about-canada%E2%80%99s-health-care-system
In my perfect world we would have addressed what is broken with our healthcare system first, rather than throwing money at it to give everyone coverage.
I'm honestly not sure if there is a better place anywhere else in the world other then where my feet are planted. I think it's all in what you make of it. Pretty soon people will be rioting against our government - I'm pretty sure of it. Will I take part? I don't know - it depends on if the guberment wants to take my property away and the freedoms that I hold most dear.
Wouldn't you want to take a stand for what you feel is right, rather then backing off and running away? often times is has nothing to do with disliking your own country and it's social or political structures. It could just be preferring the climate or lower cost of living or slower (or faster) pace of life or the history and architecture or culture. Try as I might, I can't change the USA into an ancient country full of medievel ruins and castles and historic wonders no matter how hard I try :-)
...
Wouldn't you want to take a stand for what you feel is right, rather then backing off and running away?
Leaving when times are tough is a family tradition: from the Palatine, from Alsace, Germany, Switzerland...If they had just taken a stand...:devil:
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