Means testing for health insurance

[iris lilies]

The ACA dictated subsidies are based on income, right? No means testing.

My friend who owns a $400,000 house free and clear of mortgage in Mexico plus real estate here that is mortgaged--will be qualifying for free health insurance. Really,can it be free? This is what he told me. His income is low because um, he has no job, but he does have 3 rental units plus the Mexico house, all separate from his own living unit.

Glad that ya'll are so gung ho about this ACA thing. Next time you pay your income tax remember those who are sitting on the beach in Mexico because we've all made that possible. I do have a similar plan for myself in a couple of years, hoping to take advantage of the pretty situation of the gooberment looking only at my income. I can get my income down to wherever it needs to be for the purpose of qualifying for the most government benefits.

You may wonder how I know so much about my friend's finances, but that's because he is a pretty close friend, DH has done work on all of his rental properties and we know what is mortgaged and what is not. We talk about money, and actually he's one of 2 people with whom I've discussed my net worth.

[Rogar]

The ACA dictated subsidies are based on income, right? No means testing.

Glad that ya'll are so gung ho about this ACA thing. Next time you pay your income tax remember those who are sitting on the beach in Mexico because we've all made that possible.

By my best understanding, the subsidies are not being funded out of income taxes unless you make more than $250,000/yr. I'll have a long ways to go for that.

[catherine]

Actually, your friend's experience is consistent with Mr. Money Mustache's.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/10/28/obamacare-friend-of-the-entrepreneur-and-early-retiree/


But now that I’ve got you braced for a costly-yet-manageable worst case scenario, I can reveal the good news: Most Mustachian-level early retirees will get virtually free health insurance under the new law.

[try2bfrugal]

With taxes and subsidies you win some and lose some. How many years did your friend pay income tax where he received little to zero subsidies or benefits in return?

It is interesting that so many are up in arms over a small percent of people who have assets but low income more than all the major corporations paying little to no income tax -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/03/apple-tax-havens_n_3378935.html

The reason the government isn't doing means testing is because it costs more to administer asset testing that it provides in returns -

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_19654608

"A 2001 study done by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured found that states that dropped the tests said they were costly and time-consuming to administer and rarely resulted in someone being disqualified from Medicaid. "You don't find a lot of low-income families with assets," Pennsylvania officials said in the Kaiser study.

"The cost the eligibility agency was incurring exceeded the cost of benefits that might have been denied," said officials in Oklahoma, which reported saving $1 million a year in administrative costs after dumping asset tests."

[bae]

With taxes and subsidies you win some and lose some. How many years did your friend pay income tax where he received little to zero subsidies or benefits in return?


Indeed. I'm one of those retired-early-with-assets fellows. In the process of gathering those assets, I paid a *huge* amount of income tax, an amount so huge that I'll never see any significant portion of it returned to me as "benefits".

You've already taxed the asset holders, and they saved what was left to live on. Taxing it again because you played during the summer while they stored their harvest away seems...well, you know.

I'll be happy to take all the free cheese they give me at this point. And if they decide to asset-test, well, there are ways around that too.

[iris lilies]

It is interesting that so many are up in arms over a small percent of people ...

Sure, that's the predictable response. Not many people fit this profile, that is completely what I expected someone to say.

How about something more substantial?

As for the "how many years did he pay taxes" argument, the U.S. budget (well, if there WAS one) runs on an annual basis and (theoretically, in a world that is rational) works with money that it HAS. Not phantom money than someone paid in years ago. We don't accrue chits that we can cash in later although Social Security gives poor sods that impression.

This reasoning is fundamentally wrong, the gimmee social services idea that "I paid my dues now I am collecting" when in fact the stash from which we collect has shrunk to nothing, it is negative. But who really cares, tra la tra la.

I would expect true progressives to be fighting for benefits for those who really and truly need them rather than putting forth a blanket defense for all comers with their hands out.

[iris lilies]

By my best understanding, the subsidies are not being funded out of income taxes unless you make more than $250,000/yr. I'll have a long ways to go for that.

I don't understand this, who is paying the subsidies? The insurance companies?

[sweetana3]

The subsidies are being paid by the Federal Government to the insurance companies. Guess who is paying them?

[dmc]

Ive been making a few changes and can take advantage of this law. I have a nice net worth and everything I own is paid for. Ive moved quite a bit to cash, as it will help me keep my reported income low to get my government cheese.

I quite working just before my 50th birthday. I realized I was paying more in taxes than I need to live, and my investments were making more than I was anyways. My last year of work was in 2006, my net worth is up quite a bit since then, even with a very nice standard of living.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I would expect true progressives to be fighting for benefits for those who really and truly need them rather than putting forth a blanket defense for all comers with their hands out.

it doesn't of course work, all it leads to is endless resentment of some poor people for getting benefits they might not "deserve". Progressive as suicide pact, no I don't imagine any true progressive to sign on for that. So yea most progressives are fighting for a blanket defense of all comers, mostly universal healthcare.

[try2bfrugal]

How about something more substantial?

So you want to put asset testing in place even though research shows it costs more to test than it saves in benefits?

If it isn't economically cost effective to test, then why do it? Just for spite? Resentment against savers and high net worth people?

Bitterness towards people who might have had the same or even less income as you but maybe saved more of it?

[iris lilies]

So you want to put means testing in place even though research shows it costs more to test than it saves in benefits?

If it isn't economically cost effective to test, then why do it? Just for spite?\

Random testing? Like random drug tests?

Naaaaaw, I want dmc to get his cheese because I'll be following down that road in a few years and I want to see how it goes. If I wasn't so security-oriented, I could do it now.

I tire of people like my friend who complain that they cannot afford health insurance. If he would at least be honest and say that he can afford it but chooses to live on the dole, I'd have more respect.

[iris lilies]

The subsidies are being paid by the Federal Government to the insurance companies. Guess who is paying them?

yes, I know who is paying. Does Rogar? (Perhaps my post was confusing, I'll grant that.)

[try2bfrugal]

\

Random testing? Like random drug tests?

Naaaaaw, I want dmc to get his cheese because I'll be following down that road in a few years and I want to see how it goes. If I wasn't so security-oriented, I could do it now.

I tire of people like my friend who complain that they cannot afford health insurance. If he would at least be honest and say that he can afford it but chooses to live on the dole, I'd have more respect.

Drug test requires one sample that can be tested in a lab. Asset tests mean verifying assets including stock, bonds, homes, paintings, cars, land, houses in other countries, jewelry, business valuations, and much more. It isn't so simple.

If family A makes 50K a year but lives frugally and saves half for 40 years and family B makes 50K for 40 years and spends it all, is it fair to penalize family A with a lack of health care subsidies for being good savers? Doesn't asset testing just discourage people from saving and instead just push them towards relying on government programs?

[Alan]

If family A makes 50K a year but lives frugally and saves half for 40 years and family B makes 50K for 40 years and spends it all, is it fair to penalize family A with a lack of health care subsidies for being good savers? Why not live off the government completely if savings are just going to be penalized away?
By that reasoning, shouldn't we just give it away to everyone? I think someone determined up-thread that all that free government money isn't coming from us working stiffs although I've never been able to get my head around that, it must be true, subsidies can't actually come from real people.

[try2bfrugal]

By that reasoning, shouldn't we just give it away to everyone? I think someone determined up-thread that all that free government money isn't coming from us working stiffs although I've never been able to get my head around that, it must be true, subsidies can't actually come from real people.

Universal health care? I'm for that.

[gimmethesimplelife]

The ACA dictated subsidies are based on income, right? No means testing.

My friend who owns a $400,000 house free and clear of mortgage in Mexico plus real estate here that is mortgaged--will be qualifying for free health insurance. Really,can it be free? This is what he told me. His income is low because um, he has no job, but he does have 3 rental units plus the Mexico house, all separate from his own living unit.

Glad that ya'll are so gung ho about this ACA thing. Next time you pay your income tax remember those who are sitting on the beach in Mexico because we've all made that possible. I do have a similar plan for myself in a couple of years, hoping to take advantage of the pretty situation of the gooberment looking only at my income. I can get my income down to wherever it needs to be for the purpose of qualifying for the most government benefits.

You may wonder how I know so much about my friend's finances, but that's because he is a pretty close friend, DH has done work on all of his rental properties and we know what is mortgaged and what is not. We talk about money, and actually he's one of 2 people with whom I've discussed my net worth.Just curious, IL, would you be surprised if I said I was ok with means testing for the ACA - other than for one house and a car? (Things you get to keep in bankruptcy procedings, this is why I believe these should be exempt). Rob

[Alan]

Universal health care? I'm for that.While it violates my core philosophy, I believe that would be better than the ACA. It's a forced hierarchy of privilege designed to create winners and losers. The government shouldn't be in the business of assuming individual responsibilities for a favored demographic at the expense of another demographic.

[iris lilies]

Just curious, IL, would you be surprised if I said I was ok with means testing for the ACA - other than for one house and a car? (Things you get to keep in bankruptcy procedings, this is why I believe these should be exempt). Rob

No, I'm not surprised because I know that you will not feel comfortable in society until everyone has the same amount of whatever as anyone else. When we all get our government issued car, house and food it will be Nirvana.

[gimmethesimplelife]

No, I'm not surprised because I know that you will not feel comfortable in society until everyone has the same amount of whatever as anyone else. When we all get our government issued car, house and food it will be Nirvana.I don't take it quite that far IL.....I'm not of the opinion we should all have government issued cars and houses and food - the countries of which I have a great deal of respect don't go that far. What is missing from your post here is that while I have no problem with what most Americans would consider a government handout going to those who qualify - and in some countries, you'd be amazed at how lax the qualification criteria are overall as there is not stigma of welfare attached to the handout as there is in the US - but my point is what missing from your post is that I do believe to qualify there should be some kind of contribution to society. Somehow in some way. Even if it is only planting trees or picking up trash alongside the road X number of hours a week.

Somehow in some way making a contribution for the greater good of society. Rob

[ToomuchStuff]

The ACA dictated subsidies are based on income, right? No means testing.

My friend who owns a $400,000 house free and clear of mortgage in Mexico plus real estate here that is mortgaged--will be qualifying for free health insurance. Really,can it be free? This is what he told me. His income is low because um, he has no job, but he does have 3 rental units plus the Mexico house, all separate from his own living unit.


Mexico, as in the country? You don't state this house, in a foreign land, as a rental house. (where it would be foreign income guidelines of the tax code) It was paid for with after tax dollars I am guessing. (not sure where your hangup with a piece of non income producing foreign property comes into play?)
Please explain.

[Rogar]

By the books, half the subsidies come from coincidental savings in medicare/medicaid, a fourth from medical device taxes that were part of the ACA package, and a fourth come from taxes on the wealthy. http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/11/07/243584170/how-the-affordable-care-act-pays-for-insurance-subsidies

However, there is probably no such thing as a free lunch even for us commoners.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Next time you pay your income tax remember those who are sitting on the beach in Mexico because we've all made that possible.

yea but if I'm really and truly jealous of those sitting on the beach, I'd be better off just trying to get more vacation time (as policy for everyone yes, although if your situation is favorable otherwise as well), so I could get a little more sitting on the beach as well, than trying to enforce something that maybe does cost more to enforce than it's worth and that doesn't get me any more beach time even if I won (it disappears somewhere else in the fathomless depths of the federal government). There is enough leisure to go around, share the leisure.

[iris lilies]

By the books, half the subsidies come from coincidental savings in medicare/medicaid, a fourth from medical device taxes that were part of the ACA package, and a fourth come from taxes on the wealthy. http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/11/07/243584170/how-the-affordable-care-act-pays-for-insurance-subsidies

However, there is probably no such thing as a free lunch even for us commoners.

Thank you for the projected source of income for ACA subsidies. While those of us who argued the general point, that subsidies are coming form the taxpayers, are right, I see what you mean in your earlier post and I find this idea of the drafters of the ACA interesting.

[Spartana]

well I'm one of those sitting on the beach (literally) watching the French bulldogs surf who is eligible for Medicaid because of lack of means testing. Low income early retirement but highish assets (although not in the same category as DMC and Bae). My private insurance will more than triple for monthly premiums and have a $3,000 higher deductible (from $4000/year to $7000/year) starting in Jan. and I don't qualify for subsidies. So my choice is pay the big bucks for insurance or use the ACA for free Medicaid. However, I can also use the VA hospital for low cost so that is what I plan to do while I try to find an affordable private plan (been checking on www.ehealthinsurance.com and if you plug in 2013 numbers vs. 2014 numbers they rise quite a bit). Unlike the ACA, the VA does require means testing for both income and asets to get treated for non-service connected stuff (injuries, illness, disabilities, etc... that were not caused due to your military service). Besides income and assets for the veteran, the VA also requires income and asset means testing of their spouse and kids even if spouse and kids can't use the VA). To me it doesn't seem a hard thing to do and it is something I think should be done for subsidies and Medicaid for the ACA.
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1324&d=1384193088

[iris lilies]

Mexico, as in the country? You don't state this house, in a foreign land, as a rental house. (where it would be foreign income guidelines of the tax code) It was paid for with after tax dollars I am guessing. (not sure where your hangup with a piece of non income producing foreign property comes into play?)
Please explain.

This Mexico house is a sometimes rental, sort of shared/rented, and at the moment is 100% rented and my friend stays in the back Maid's quarters when he takes his months at a time vacations.

Ok, here's what really bugs me: its whining about having no money, whining about the high cost of insurance (and it is bloody high, I agree!) but then deliberately not working and taking the handout. The whining woe-is-me-I-am-a-victim gets to me.

No one who has clean, measurable assets of $400,000 is a victim. I so tire of victim mentality.

[iris lilies]

well I'm one of those sitting on the beach (literally) watching the French bulldogs surf who is eligible for Medicaid because of lack of means testing. Low income early retirement but highish assets (although not in the same category as DMC and Bae). My private insurance will more than triple for monthly premiums and have a $3,000 higher deductible (from $4000/year to $7000/year) starting in Jan. and I don't qualify for subsidies. So my choice is pay the big bucks for insurance or use the ACA for free Medicaid. However, I can also use the VA hospital for low cost so that is what I plan to do while I try to find an affordable private plan (been checking on www.ehealthinsurance.com (http://www.ehealthinsurance.com) and if you plug in 2013 numbers vs. 2014 numbers they rise quite a bit). Unlike the ACA, the VA does require means testing for both income and asets to get treated for non-service connected stuff (injuries, illness, disabilities, etc... that were not caused due to your military service). Besides income and assets for the veteran, the VA also requires income and asset means testing of their spouse and kids even if spouse and kids can't use the VA). To me it doesn't seem a hard thing to do and it is something I think should be done for subsidies and Medicaid for the ACA.


oh you just think that you will sweet talk me with that bulldog photo, haha!

I've got no beef with you, love your Can-DO attitude, and you put in your time and sacrifice for that VA benefit.

[gimmethesimplelife]

This Mexico house is a sometimes rental, sort of shared/rented, and at the moment is 100% rented and my friend stays in the back Maid's quarters when he takes his months at a time vacations.

Ok, here's what really bugs me: its whining about having no money, whining about the high cost of insurance (and it is bloody high, I agree!) but then deliberately not working and taking the handout. The whining woe-is-me-I-am-a-victim gets to me.

No one who has clean, measurable assets of $400,000 is a victim. I so tire of victim mentality.I agree with you, that no one with $400,000 in assets is a victim. In a way. Without insurance once serious illness such as cancer could wipe those assets clean away. But with that kind of money one can afford insurance or could meet financial requirements to obtain permanent residency in another country with much lower health care costs. I vote for the latter, no surprise there, but I also understand that not everyone would want the latter. I do think to some degree that we are ALL victims or a least potential victims to a health care system that works against us and not for us - I see that as being true for someone with $400,000 in assets, too. But I would also agree that someone with those kinds of assets should not be getting Medicaid......That in my book is working the system. Rob

[bae]

But I would also agree that someone with those kinds of assets should not be getting Medicaid......That in my book is working the system. Rob

My mother-in-law has those kinds of assets. She was a teacher her whole life, and lives on Social Security and a small pension. However, she owns her home free and clear. She has lived in that home since 1947 I believe. She and her husband sacrificed, scrimped, and saved to finally pay off the house, and built/remodeled a good chunk of it over time with their own skill and labor. I was present at their mortgage-burning party in 1980.

[iris lilies]

I agree with you, that no one with $400,000 in assets is a victim. In a way. Without insurance once serious illness such as cancer could wipe those assets clean away. But with that kind of money one can afford insurance or could meet financial requirements to obtain permanent residency in another country with much lower health care costs. I vote for the latter, no surprise there, but I also understand that not everyone would want the latter. I do think to some degree that we are ALL victims or a least potential victims to a health care system that works against us and not for us - I see that as being true for someone with $400,000 in assets, too. But I would also agree that someone with those kinds of assets should not be getting Medicaid......That in my book is working the system. Rob

He is working to get residency in Mexico so that when he sells the property, which he will be doing next year, the taxes favor him.

[iris lilies]

My mother-in-law has those kinds of assets. She was a teacher her whole life, and lives on Social Security and a small pension. However, she owns her home free and clear. She has lived in that home since 1947 I believe. She and her husband sacrificed, scrimped, and saved to finally pay off the house, and built/remodeled a good chunk of it over time with their own skill and labor. I was present at their mortgage-burning party in 1980.

I'm ok with that, I think I've identified the thing that bugs me and I would bet that your MIL isn't whining about her sitch. NO WHINERS ALLOWED NEAR ME, please. Because it is really all about me. :)

[gimmethesimplelife]

My mother-in-law has those kinds of assets. She was a teacher her whole life, and lives on Social Security and a small pension. However, she owns her home free and clear. She has lived in that home since 1947 I believe. She and her husband sacrificed, scrimped, and saved to finally pay off the house, and built/remodeled a good chunk of it over time with their own skill and labor. I was present at their mortgage-burning party in 1980.Please correct me if I am wrong - seriously. I'm guessing your mother in law is getting Medicare and not Medicaid? I have no problem with folks who have worked for a goodly long time getting Medicare at all, regardless of assets. I do however believe that folks working the system should not be getting free Medicaid - this goes against my basic philosophy of contributing to society in some way. I don't even have a problem with such folks getting a subsidy towards insurance from the government, just not a complete freebie is all.

Rob

[ApatheticNoMore]

Ok, here's what really bugs me: its whining about having no money, whining about the high cost of insurance (and it is bloody high, I agree!) but then deliberately not working and taking the handout. The whining woe-is-me-I-am-a-victim gets to me.

No one who has clean, measurable assets of $400,000 is a victim. I so tire of victim mentality.

They are financially relatively fortunate and should realize as much. Now, I don't know if they are a "victim" in some way or not (for all I know they were gang raped at 6 years old and were a victim in that way) but as far as FINANCES aka MONEY go - they are fortunate and it is unseemly, bad manners, bad taste etc. to complain about one's own finances too much in that context. I definitely think so.

But systems, fine complain about systems, like the U.S. healthcare system generally stinking, and probably benefitting people MUCH richer than Mr 400k at the end of the day (the pharma industry for instance).

[iris lilies]

They are financially relatively fortunate and should realize as much. Now, I don't know if they are a "victim" in some way or not (for all I know they were gang raped at 6 years old and were a victim in that way) but as far as FINANCES aka MONEY go - they are fortunate and it is unseemly, bad manners, bad taste etc. to complain about one's own finances too much in that context. I definitely think so.

But systems, fine complain about systems, like the U.S. healthcare system generally stinking, and probably benefiting people MUCH richer than Mr 400k at the end of the day (the pharma industry for instance).

Yes, you're right. This is a social problem for which I'm blaming the political environment.

I think that in the new year I will be dropping all of my whining friends. :) That will solve it!

[Spartana]

oh you just think that you will sweet talk me with that bulldog photo, haha!

I've got no beef with you, love your Can-DO attitude, and you put in your time and sacrifice for that VA benefit. And I get free pancakes at Dennys today!!
I have said it here before numerous times, I am a supporter of Obamacare and in universal healthcare in general. However, I believe that unless it IS a true universal healthcare for all, and available to all irregardless of their income and asset levels, then I consider it a welfare program for the low income and asset rather than a social program. Therefor I think means testing for assets is a must. I find it unfair that someone like me can qualify for Medicaid just because I made the choice to be a beach bum instead of working like those who are paying the larger share of taxes for this program. Especially if I am capable of working (although it may actually kill me :-)), and/or have the funds to pay my own health insurance. I'd rather see those with high assets exempt from the program and those funds diverted to the truly needy. Like these poor guys :-)
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1325&d=1384196972http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1326&d=1384199193

[Spartana]

My mother-in-law has those kinds of assets. She was a teacher her whole life, and lives on Social Security and a small pension. However, she owns her home free and clear. She has lived in that home since 1947 I believe. She and her husband sacrificed, scrimped, and saved to finally pay off the house, and built/remodeled a good chunk of it over time with their own skill and labor. I was present at their mortgage-burning party in 1980.

For most means testing for assets (including the VA's means testing and the old Medicaid) you don't need to include your primary residence, your personal vehicle, and your various personal stuff that you use day to day like clothes and furniture. Unlike Medicaid that only allowed you to have an income of around $11K, and around $2,000 in assets besides your house and car, etc..., the new VA rules to accomadate the ACA follows the new income requirements and allows an income of approx. $16k for free treatment. However their asset amount is much higher then it is for the old Medicaid and allows you to have assets (besides house and car, etc...) of around $80K for free treatment. That doesn't mean they won't treat you for a non-service connected health issue if your income and/or assets are over that amount, it just means that you will pay a share of the cost for treatment. So it's based on a sliding scale but available to all veterans who served a certain period of time and had honorable discharges.

[bae]

Spartana - I'm currently looking at the various college financial aid forms. It seems I could get lots of financial aid for my child from some of the institutions she is applying to, if only I had been wise enough to purchase a sufficiently huge and overpriced home, instead of keeping a large chunk of my assets in more liquid form. Who knew that buying something sensible would come back to bite me in this way?

[Spartana]

Spartana - I'm currently looking at the various college financial aid forms. It seems I could get lots of financial aid for my child from some of the institutions she is applying to, if only I had been wise enough to purchase a sufficiently huge and overpriced home, instead of keeping a large chunk of my assets in more liquid form. Who knew that buying something sensible would come back to bite me in this way? Well this is me :-)! The bulk of my assetsare locked up in a paid for home in an expensive housing area and the rest in tax deferred stuff. So technically on paper I am low income/low tax. But I don't think people should have to sell their primary residence in order to qualify for aid. And it's hard to say what is expensive in one area of the country vs. another. I'm in coastal Orange County Calif and housing is very expensive here, elsewhere it may be a quarter of the cost or less. So while a house may seem expensive to one person (say the $450K 1950's small ranch house that just sold in my semi-ghetto 'hood) it may be an crappy old place in reality. And many seniors who bought their places decades ago inexpensively, may not have that option to sell and buy something similar in the same area and cash out some of that equity. So that's probably why most aid-type programs allow you to exclude a primary residence.

[dmc]

No medicaid for me. I can't get my income down that low. Do doctors even take medicaid anymore? I'm currently paying $1300 a month for my wife and I, and that's after tax money.

This is just financial planning for me. Ive paid a large amount in taxes over the years, and still do. If I can get a little back from the crooks in Washington it's a bonus.

No whining from me!

Life is good, the weather is crappy today though. I think I'll go down to San Antonio in a few weeks, depending on the weather. No more snow for me.

[iris lilies]

No medicaid for me. I can't get my income down that low. Do doctors even take medicaid anymore? I'm currently paying $1300 a month for my wife and I, and that's after tax money.

This is just financial planning for me. Ive paid a large amount in taxes over the years, and still do. If I can get a little back from the crooks in Washington it's a bonus.

No whining from me!

Life is good, the weather is crappy today though. I think I'll go down to San Antonio in a few weeks, depending on the weather. No more snow for me.

Maybe in your neck of the woods all the way out there past the DB bridge it was crappy but here it was lovely and actually quite warm, and I do not believe that we are going to get snow tonight.

You could have played golf today, did you? At least at Forest Park it would have been nice.

[dmc]

Maybe in your neck of the woods all the way out there past the DB bridge it was crappy but here it was lovely and actually quite warm, and I do not believe that we are going to get snow tonight.

You could have played golf today, did you? At least at Forest Park it would have been nice.

I it was warm enough, just cloudy, kind of dreary. The wind is picking up now, doesn't look to good for the rest of the week.

[flowerseverywhere]

Spartana - I'm currently looking at the various college financial aid forms. It seems I could get lots of financial aid for my child from some of the institutions she is applying to, if only I had been wise enough to purchase a sufficiently huge and overpriced home, instead of keeping a large chunk of my assets in more liquid form. Who knew that buying something sensible would come back to bite me in this way?
the proudest thing I ever did was pay for the bulk of my kids education. They got some academic scholarships, worked and DH and I worked overtime to make it happen, but they nearly graduated debt free, and with an old clunker of a car. The work ethic that our attitude instilled in them I think has a lot to do with how successful they are in their work and personal lives. We saw others finagle things to get as much as they could but I felt we were so lucky to be able to do what we did. To me, wealth is not what you have in the bank, besides enough to live a modest life, but what you instill and inspire in others. The huge amounts we have paid in taxes through the years as well as our contributions to medicare and social security will partly come back in ss and Medicare. And the roads I drive on, and books I get from the library, and the police that respond to emergencies are there because of people like me. Bae I think your community service has been wonderful for your community, and no big house or fancy show car can ever replace that.

[Spartana]

No medicaid for me. I can't get my income down that low. Do doctors even take medicaid anymore? I'm currently paying $1300 a month for my wife and I, and that's after tax money.

This is just financial planning for me. Ive paid a large amount in taxes over the years, and still do. If I can get a little back from the crooks in Washington it's a bonus.

No whining from me!

Life is good, the weather is crappy today though. I think I'll go down to San Antonio in a few weeks, depending on the weather. No more snow for me.Well I'm one of those low income people (low income enough to qualify for Medicaid if you don't count my non-taxable income) who never paid a lot into taxes over my working life. That was just because my jobs didn't pay much and because I always maxed out every tax deferred thing I could each year. Contributed my fair share based on my low income but not huge amounts for sure. So having the taxpayers pay for my health insurance for the 25 years I will have been "retired" until I would be old enough to go on Medicare just doesn't seem fair to those footing the bill even if I can qualify for Medicaid. But it is what it is and I will just keep looking for an affordable plan outside of the exchanges to replace my cancelled plan. Until then the VA will suffice. Fortunate to have that. But I wonder what people do who really don't have the resources to buy their own plans or are temp or permanently unable to work as, as you pointed out, even in States with expanded Medicaid there doesn't seem to be doctors that will take new patients. I did look up Medicaid providers in my county of 3 million and there doesn't seem to even be one. Someone going on Medicaid here would have to go to LA or San Diego counties for treatment. A long drive either way.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Well I'm one of those low income people (low income enough to qualify for Medicaid if you don't count my non-taxable income) who never paid a lot into taxes over my working life. That was just because my jobs didn't pay much and because I always maxed out every tax deferred thing I could each year. Contributed my fair share based on my low income but not huge amounts for sure. So having the taxpayers pay for my health insurance for the 25 years I will have been "retired" until I would be old enough to go on Medicare just doesn't seem fair to those footing the bill even if I can qualify for Medicaid. But it is what it is and I will just keep looking for an affordable plan outside of the exchanges to replace my cancelled plan. Until then the VA will suffice. Fortunate to have that. But I wonder what people do who really don't have the resources to buy their own plans or are temp or permanently unable to work as, as you pointed out, even in States with expanded Medicaid there doesn't seem to be doctors that will take new patients. I did look up Medicaid providers in my county of 3 million and there doesn't seem to even be one. Someone going on Medicaid here would have to go to LA or San Diego counties for treatment. A long drive either way.The end of your post here really concerned me so I googled doctors accepting Medicaid Phoenix AZ and I guess I'm lucky, there are a number of doctors here that still accept Medicaid and one is only a mile away from me. There are also community clinics here that accept it, along with the former County Hospital which is walking distance from me. I count myself lucky that these resources are so close and that I'm only five hours away from Mexicali where health care costs are unbelievably less expensive than on this side of the border. I guess if I have to be struggling, this is not a bad place in which to struggle. I am grateful for that much. Rob

[Spartana]

You need to make sure that those doctors and hospitals are taking new patients Rob. There are many who are Medicaid providers but do not accept new patients. Not sure how you can go about checking that out without actually calling them one by one though. The Medicaid program in Calif is run by each county separately and offer a Medicaid insurance network of providers (called Cal Optima in my county) just like a regular insurance company. You sign up with their network and go to one of their doctors. Some counties like LA have a lot of different networks to choose from, other counties like mine only have one - or technically none in the case of my country which seems that Cal Optima is no longer taking new patients in it's plan. But maybe there is a way to go outside of a Medicaid network plan and just get your own doctor and hospital. I didn't really look into it that much. You might also want to see what kind of wait there to get an appointment. I know that the VA is infamous for long waits to get seen - sometimes months - for a non-emergency condition. I assume Medicaid may be the same.

[ToomuchStuff]

This Mexico house is a sometimes rental, sort of shared/rented, and at the moment is 100% rented and my friend stays in the back Maid's quarters when he takes his months at a time vacations.

Ok, here's what really bugs me: its whining about having no money, whining about the high cost of insurance (and it is bloody high, I agree!) but then deliberately not working and taking the handout. The whining woe-is-me-I-am-a-victim gets to me.

No one who has clean, measurable assets of $400,000 is a victim. I so tire of victim mentality.

Much better explanation then your first post. Assets won't always count, even if on paper they say one thing. For example, I had a couple of friends/customers that were elderly and lived in an older house on a local highway, that had gone commercial area. They had lived there long enough to be grandfathered into residential, and finally sold their house and property to move to Colorado (bad health and wanted to spend their last bits in their cabin). They sold their house 9 months before Bass Pro was built and their property (was bought by daughters boyfriend) went from 100K to being valued/marketed at 3 million. The older couple couldn't have paid the property taxes on that. Look at the Bungalow's in NJ. (damaged by Sandy)


Who knew that buying something sensible would come back to bite me in this way?
Anyone who believes cash is king and has greed. (you have it, they want it) But I read you as sarcastic (you knew that).

[Spartana]

another thought I had about Medicaid (as well as the using the VA) is that it might actually be LESS expensive for the government than subsidizes. Since there are no monthly premiums paid for Medicaid or the VA by it's users, the government only pays for actual medical care when it is used - which may be rarely if ever. However with subsidizes the government is paying out a sum of money - which may almost 100% of the premium - to a private insurance company each month even if someone is not using healthcare. I had private insurance I paid monthly premiums for for over 14 years after I left employment and I never once used it. Other than an annual physical (which I did at the VA as part of my service-connect disability/injuries) I really have never needed to use my health insurance. I think this is a common thing for a lot of people - at least younger, healthier people. And with the new more expensive out of pocket costs in co-pays, co-insurance and higher deductibles for some of the bronze level plans, many people may be more reluctant to go to the doctor and pay extra than they were when they had just an inexpensive catashropic kind of plan. I know I was more willing to pay for a doctors visit out of my own pocket when my monthly premiums for my catastrophic plan were only $100 or $200/month. But with the higher premiums (an extra $300 - $500/month), much higher deductible, co-pays and co-insurance for an ACA-approved plan I'd find it difficult to find the money to pay for a doctors visit.

[gimmethesimplelife]

You need to make sure that those doctors and hospitals are taking new patients Rob. There are many who are Medicaid providers but do not accept new patients. Not sure how you can go about checking that out without actually calling them one by one though. The Medicaid program in Calif is run by each county separately and offer a Medicaid insurance network of providers (called Cal Optima in my county) just like a regular insurance company. You sign up with their network and go to one of their doctors. Some counties like LA have a lot of different networks to choose from, other counties like mine only have one - or technically none in the case of my country which seems that Cal Optima is no longer taking new patients in it's plan. But maybe there is a way to go outside of a Medicaid network plan and just get your own doctor and hospital. I didn't really look into it that much. You might also want to see what kind of wait there to get an appointment. I know that the VA is infamous for long waits to get seen - sometimes months - for a non-emergency condition. I assume Medicaid may be the same.Thank you for bringing this to my attention, Spartana. I made a few calls and the former country hospital that is now with Maricopa Medical Plan is accepting new Medicaid patients as are the community health clinics scattered around town. My guess is that to get a non urgent appointment one is going to have to have a lot of patience but still this is a nice back up for any medical needs and I also have Mexicali, Mexico five hours away so I'm feeling a little better about health care now. Rob

[ToomuchStuff]

I haven't heard exactly how these subsidies are supposed to work the first year. When I started out, I know to me, it wouldn't have been a subsidy if it was paid at the time the bill was due (monthly). It would have been just a tax refund at the end of the year. So is the rebate an immediate stop on income withholdings?

[Spartana]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, Spartana. I made a few calls and the former country hospital that is now with Maricopa Medical Plan is accepting new Medicaid patients as are the community health clinics scattered around town. My guess is that to get a non urgent appointment one is going to have to have a lot of patience but still this is a nice back up for any medical needs and I also have Mexicali, Mexico five hours away so I'm feeling a little better about health care now. RobEven if it takes you awhile to get an appointment, it will be a relief to you to know that in an emergency you will not only be able to get treatment immediately, but will not be hit with some huge medical bill afterwards. This is what was great about having inexpensive catastrophic coverage. While it didn't cover a lot of the basics I never would need or use - or was willing to pay for myself if needed since the monthly premiums were so low - I knew that any BIG thing was covered and I wouldn't have to wipe out my life savings if that happened.

[Spartana]

I haven't heard exactly how these subsidies are supposed to work the first year. When I started out, I know to me, it wouldn't have been a subsidy if it was paid at the time the bill was due (monthly). It would have been just a tax refund at the end of the year. So is the rebate an immediate stop on income withholdings?I think you can choose how to get the subsidizes - either have them paid directly to your insurance provider each month based on your projected income for the year, or pay the full amount of the premiums yourself and then get the tax credit at the end of the year when you do your taxes. It looks like the application allows you to make either choice. If you chose to have your monthly premium subsidy paid directly to your insurance provider thru out the year and your actual income ends up being different than your projected income then you may owe more money in taxes (if income increases) or get more in tax credits (if income decreases) at the end of the year when you do your taxes.