Small house envy...

[catherine]

I'm in love with this 540 sq. ft. home, green roof and all.

How can I get one of these (http://inhabitat.com/tiny-540-square-foot-oregon-home-tops-off-with-a-green-roof/tiny-green-house-jessica-helgerson-9/?extend=1)?

Love the roof, the kitchen, the bed/seating area, the bookshelves, the loft, the bathroom (although I do have the same sink), the garden, etc. etc.

[leslieann]

Lovely. I can see myself there, but not with kids, dog, spouse....just me. Okay, maybe they could come for dinner. Remarkable how little stuff is needed, though. The space is a good reminder.

[try2bfrugal]

Very cute. Thanks for posting the link. I would love to try living in a tiny house or cottage some day.

[Gardenarian]

I could live in that! Love the kitchen area, and the bookshelves.
I see a lot of small houses that only have one room; this one seems to make better use of the space. I'd love to see a floor plan of that.

[ToomuchStuff]

I do see a good amount around that size, around. I wish they would have said something about that Fridge. Mine died a while back and being single I don't use a big one enough to justify it (would like something apartment sized, personally).

[happystuff]

Nice!

[Gardenarian]

I do see a good amount around that size, around. I wish they would have said something about that Fridge. Mine died a while back and being single I don't use a big one enough to justify it (would like something apartment sized, personally).
I spent quite a bit of time looking at apartment sized fridges for my cabin. That looks a lot like this Summit model (http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/FFBF24.html) - not exact, but close.
Strangely, a lot of the apartment sized fridges use about as much energy as the full sized.

[Spartana]

Oh sooo cute! I was just up in my old 'hood of Big Bear Lake, Ca and spent a few days just riding my bicycle around (and freezing my :moon: off as it was around 20 at night) looking at all the tiny cute little cabins and houses. Some as small as 200 sf! Perfect for Sven (the hunky ski instructor) and me! Don't want to live there again but it is a small house mecca. Also giant mansions too - often one right next to the other.

[Gregg]

What a lovely home. As time goes by I have a harder and harder time figuring out why anyone wants much more than this (spatially, that is).

[ToomuchStuff]

What a lovely home. As time goes by I have a harder and harder time figuring out why anyone wants much more than this (spatially, that is).

Stages of life. Starting out this would be great and represent freedom, then you get to marriage/family and more space needed. Probably some hobbies when the kids are gone and your at an empty house. Then small again when you age.

[catherine]

Yeah, the minimal stuff thing is challenging. My home office is probably about Tumbleweed House size, minus the loft (about 110 sq.ft). So sometimes I tell myself, OK, if I actually had a Tumbleweed House, I'd have to be comfortable living in exactly this amount of space. In my home office I have a futon, a desk, a storage armoire and a bookshelf.

I'm not that great at keeping it minimal. I have project work, and bills, and office supplies, and books, and miscellaneous stuff that I need to transport to somewhere else in the house. So I wonder if I'd be up to really keeping a house as nice as the one in the original post.

I do spend a LOT of time in this room, so I don't think cabin fever would be the problem if I ever did decide to get a tiny house. But the stuff is another story.

[befree]

This is one the greatest small houses I've seen....love the bookshelf walls, and the kitchen layout. Looks terrifically live-able

[JaneV2.0]

Al Jazeera is having a special presentation on Sunday:


"TINY is a documentary about home, and how we find it.

The film follows one couple’s attempt to build a “tiny house” from scratch, and profiles other families who have downsized their lives into homes smaller than the average parking space.

Through homes stripped down to their essentials, the film raises questions about good design, the nature of home, and the changing American Dream.

Check out TINY: A STORY ABOUT LIVING SMALL on AJAM Al Jazeera America Presents this Sunday at 9E/6P"

[Zoebird]

I particularly like this house. :) I definitely have some lusting over it. :D


Stages of life. Starting out this would be great and represent freedom, then you get to marriage/family and more space needed. Probably some hobbies when the kids are gone and your at an empty house. Then small again when you age.

You know, I don't know.

I'm currently in the family stage, and we were really happy at 480 sq ft. We currently have 650 sq ft or so -- which is really more than we need. We have one completely unused room!

We currently use the kitchen, dining, lounge, bathroom, and back room -- just like in our old 480 sq ft cottage. The backroom is playing "closet/everthing" room again. I have a freecycle dresser in there for our clothing. The closet holds the hanging clothes, suitcases (with out of season stuff), pillows and puffy quilts, and vacuum cleaner. my ILs are bringing us some book cases (i've already gotten rid of several books that I'm surprised that I kept). DS's toy trunks are in there (and his books will also go on the book cases). We keep our thai mats in there during the day when not in use for sleeping.

The lounge is the everything room. We've been working in there on our computers, DS brings out his toys. I bring the bed out at night, and during the day, I put it away. Bedding goes into the dresser in the dining room (freecycle) -- sheets and towels in one drawer; blankets in another; kitchen linens in a third, and then some kitchen implements (like my mandolin slicer) in another. I have two empty drawers. We tidy it before we go to bed -- toys away, computers away, clothes set out for the next day, dishes are washed and put away, etc. Basically, it's all sorted.

I'm line drying clothes in the back room -- everything dries so quickly (overnight!). I can just go from rack to dresser/closet very easily this way.

We're looking at making the extra room into DH's office space, or a space where we can do yoga, meditation, work, etc. Not sure yet how that space will work. So far, we're happy not using it. We'll see what happens as we expand outward.

[jp1]

When I was single I rather liked my small (250 sq ft) apartment. It suited me just fine and had plenty of room for everything I wanted to do. Plus, it was incredibly easy to take care of. A couple of hours every other week and I had cleaned the whole place. Add another hour and I could also get my laundry done during that time. I had tons of free time to do fun stuff.

Now that I'm not single I live in a 1200 sq foot apartment. I like having this much space since it allows SO and I to be in different parts of the home doing our own things (me reading stuff and listening to music, him watching TV and chatting with people online). If I were single again I could live in a space the size of our second bedroom (all my old furniture is in here already) plus kitchen and bathroom. Total space would be about 250 sq ft again.

[ToomuchStuff]

I particularly like this house. :) I definitely have some lusting over it. :D



You know, I don't know.

I'm currently in the family stage, and we were really happy at 480 sq ft. We currently have 650 sq ft or so -- which is really more than we need. We have one completely unused room!

We currently use the kitchen, dining, lounge, bathroom, and back room -- just like in our old 480 sq ft cottage. The backroom is playing "closet/everthing" room again. I have a freecycle dresser in there for our clothing. The closet holds the hanging clothes, suitcases (with out of season stuff), pillows and puffy quilts, and vacuum cleaner. my ILs are bringing us some book cases (i've already gotten rid of several books that I'm surprised that I kept). DS's toy trunks are in there (and his books will also go on the book cases). We keep our thai mats in there during the day when not in use for sleeping.

The lounge is the everything room. We've been working in there on our computers, DS brings out his toys. I bring the bed out at night, and during the day, I put it away. Bedding goes into the dresser in the dining room (freecycle) -- sheets and towels in one drawer; blankets in another; kitchen linens in a third, and then some kitchen implements (like my mandolin slicer) in another. I have two empty drawers. We tidy it before we go to bed -- toys away, computers away, clothes set out for the next day, dishes are washed and put away, etc. Basically, it's all sorted.

I'm line drying clothes in the back room -- everything dries so quickly (overnight!). I can just go from rack to dresser/closet very easily this way.

We're looking at making the extra room into DH's office space, or a space where we can do yoga, meditation, work, etc. Not sure yet how that space will work. So far, we're happy not using it. We'll see what happens as we expand outward.

To think everything, applies to everyone, is just naive. What I posted, is what I typically saw growing up. Times have changed and a lot of things that used to be are no more. People had workbenches in the garage or basement, and purchases would come with schematics/diagrams to fix things. Cars were tuned much more frequently then the 100K they are now; kids played outside, due to a lack of the tv, to play pong, or Atari on. I had this discussion yesterday, with a gal in for her son's tenth birthday, as her ex bought the kid a tv and she bought him a tablet. These things were monitored in our houses, by being in the family room. When the parents wanted to get away from the kids stuff, dad went to his workshop, and mom would do something from crafts to shopping with a girlfriend.

[JaneV2.0]

I watched the documentary, and enjoyed it. But for those who have more possessions than a change of underwear and a mess kit, they're probably not practical. My 1600-some feet are more than I need, but arranged so that they're practically useless, with much wasted space. I would be happy in 800-1200 well-designed square feet with a garage.

[Zoebird]

To think everything, applies to everyone, is just naive. What I posted, is what I typically saw growing up.

So, you are taking your own advice? In your first assertion, you said it would not work for families. Essentially, what you saw growing up, and what you believe to be true, applies to everyone and everything.

I was pointing out that your assertion that these smaller homes wouldn't work for families is incorrect based on what I do with my family. Simply to point out that it's not categorically the case that a family can't live in a small space, and similarly, that it might provide inspiration for other people who might be reading this going "I would love to live smaller, but I have a family. . .."


Times have changed and a lot of things that used to be are no more. People had workbenches in the garage or basement, and purchases would come with schematics/diagrams to fix things. Cars were tuned much more frequently then the 100K they are now; kids played outside, due to a lack of the tv, to play pong, or Atari on. I had this discussion yesterday, with a gal in for her son's tenth birthday, as her ex bought the kid a tv and she bought him a tablet. These things were monitored in our houses, by being in the family room. When the parents wanted to get away from the kids stuff, dad went to his workshop, and mom would do something from crafts to shopping with a girlfriend.

These things that you are nostalgic about still exist, just in different ways. DS spends a lot of time outside -- at parks, hiking, and in the community garden. We don't do much with tools, but our son's school has a woodworking workshop that's open to families, too, outside of school time. We have our lap tops, but no TV or video game platforms. DS is supervised in his tv watching, online video games, etc -- he doesn't have his own tablet (none of us have tablets).

DH goes to the gym twice a week for his alone time; I take two yoga classes a week. My son's "kid stuff" is easy enough to manage -- everything has a place where we put them away, which we do before he goes to bed. In fact, we tidy the house each night before bed, then put the bed out. We wake to a clean place, a blank slate.

I have friends who are trying to minimize, trying to downsize -- for money reasons, for simplicity reasons. They want to know how a family can do it. How does a family of 3? A family of 5?

There's no magic number in square footage, simplicity, or minimalism. People will be different based on what they do -- there's nothing wrong with this, nor did I assert that there was one true way of doing things.

Simply, this house *is* reasonable and accessible for a family, if the family chooses to live that way.

And we do. We choose to live with less square footage, so that we can live a certain way. That certain way is well thought, requires planning, and once in place, it can really work. And, it's fun.

Also, have you heard of these repair cafes (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/world/europe/amsterdam-tries-to-change-culture-with-repair-cafes.html?_r=0)? It's another thing that we are getting into. NO need for me to have and store things for woodworking, or maintaining a bike, or repairing things. People are creating communal spaces for these things -- which costs less, creates more community, and requires less storage.

So, as you say, there's no one way to do things. And I'm a case in point. I dont' live like what you "typically" saw, or what people are pressuring us to "be" these days (or how much square footage and "stuff" we need). I live differently.

Is it for everyone? No, of course not, and I never asserted that. But living smaller, living with less -- but having more -- is possible, even when you have a family.

[ToomuchStuff]

Zoe, can you point to where I said it wouldn't work for families? I said stages of life, (edit: in reply to Gregs why would anyone want more) which is just what I typically see in today's society in this country. Lot's of things can and do work, but it feels like those of us who visit sites like these, tend to be the "exception" then the "rule" (in the end it is about choices and values).
For woodworking in school shops, your lucky. So many schools have dropped them for reasons from the push to computers, to the liability (know anything about Sawstop?) and the choice of tools. (stationary verses track saws) Machine shops/industrial arts as well.
I've heard of various forms of repair cafe's. From those that Churches start (garage programs that fix up vehicles for those in need or their members) to groups of like minded folk who go in together to open some kind of shop and divide the costs. (none around here though)

I think we tend to agree more then you think, just inserting unwritten notions into our reading, skews the view.

[Gardenarian]

I think we tend to agree more then you think, just inserting unwritten notions into our reading, skews the view.

So true, in so many situations.

[Zoebird]

I quoted you directly in the original post that I made. Here is the relevant portion: ". . .then you get to marriage/family and more space needed. . ."

It's really strange/annoying to assert that I'm inserting things into this statement. Your statement is clear, declarative in nature, and absolute -- in or out of context.

I also don't get how my non-declarative message "oh, I don't know. This is how I live, too, . . ." implies any form of absolute application across families. It only implies possibilities for families and an example through our choices, just as this family's home is an example. I also don't understand how my statements translate to being some "major" disagreement between us.

I like to share my atypical experience because it talks about possibilities. It's not this one family that does this. It's lots and lots of families. It may not be typical, but we are not singular, either. I like to read about other families who are like us or striving to be like us (living smaller, more minimally, etc), and I like to share to encourage other families who might be looking for another way, an atypical way, too.

When I read statements that say "different stages of life need more space" I hear the call of our culture -- the one that creates that typical experience over and over. And I say "Oh, I don't know if that's absolute."

That is all.

[ToomuchStuff]

I quoted you directly in the original post that I made. Here is the relevant portion: ". . .then you get to marriage/family and more space needed. . ."

It's really strange/annoying to assert that I'm inserting things into this statement. Your statement is clear, declarative in nature, and absolute -- in or out of context.


When I read statements that say "different stages of life need more space" I hear the call of our culture -- the one that creates that typical experience over and over. And I say "Oh, I don't know if that's absolute."

That is all.

So you here the call of "our" culture (guess our, your etc. are going to always need defining?), and think that the "call of culture in my statement" is absolute, unless it is from your view?

That is where I see you inserting your own prejudices/preconceived notions into the conversation.

[Zoebird]

That's a very complex defensive process you have there.

Here's the way I see it:

1. you asserted a cultural notion that -- in our culture -- is absolute;

2. I contested the absolute nature of that *notion* through my experience, in no way asserting or implying that my experience was or should be absolute;

3. you begin your cultural contextualizing response by asserting that my statement was absolute in nature -- at this point, *you* inserted a construct into my response that wasn't there -- then contextualize the cultural notion which your statement was intended to imply;

4. I then reassert that the absolute nature in the tone of your response (3) is false and describe our work-arounds for those of us who have chosen to not go along with the paradigm of family = needs space;

5. you then assert that I'm inserting prejudices toward the statement as you both A. stated it (1) and B. contextualized it (3).

Basically, I suggest that at some point you felt personally attacked when I picked up the absolute nature of the cultural notion housed, by your intention, in your original statement, and as such, have felt the need to defend yourself by casting me as the "bad guy" who is "inserting" prejudices into your statements.

I don't think that you are a bad person who asserts that your way is the one true way. I acknowledge that it is our shared cultural process that family = needs space is absolute, and that I am both the living antithesis of that, and that you support that notion regardless of whether or not it is typical or atypical. Likewise, I acknowledge our shared belief that people are making choices and free to make choices in regards to their lives and lifestyles -- whether those are typical or atypical to the dominant cultural paradigm.

It would be nice, though, if you would acknowledge your discomfort with -- what I believe to be -- an assumption that I was attacking you, not confronting a cultural notion housed in your statement.

[rodeosweetheart]

I have been reading this thread with interest because it seems that there are some polarizing statements. I think some of the way one lives has to do with what one likes and how one wishes to spend one's time--I may hate the idea of folding up my bed each day for heaven knows what reason; I may despise the idea that all of your clothes do not fit into a 36% closet that looks like something out of Real Simple--but in the end, these are personal choices, likes and dislikes, paradigms in how we grew up/wished we had grown up/want to have our own family grow up. I don't think there is a one dominant culture out there dictating whether I should or should not collect fiestaware or save geraniums out of the leaf composting bags I see on the street sometime. By the standards of many here, I own two many guitars (2) and too many books and way, way too many seeds, but hey, if I am happy and not hurting anybody, so what? Similarly, if someone else wants to live more minimally than I do, so what? I don't think either way implies any moral superiority or any bowing to a dominant culture.

It's cool and inspiring to me to see the Tiny house pictures posted and I get ideas, but honestly, having lived the last 3 years in an 800 square foot house with two work at home teachers and uncountable textbooks, I needed a break and was very happy to get up to 1200 feet. But we have very, very expansive hobbies, pianos, and yeah, some stuff that I will get out and probably move along as I decide it no longer serves where I am at this stage in my life.

When I was single, 400 feet was peachy, and 500 was even neater. When I was married to the controller, 2300 feet was not enough to get away.

And I do think stage of life has a lot to do with all of our choices. But then, I teach developmental psychology, so I would.

[catherine]

rodeosweetheart, I hear you. As much as I drool at these little houses, I think I take the space in my own house for granted. It does help at times like last weekend when all the kids came down. When I stayed in the little cottage on the beach a couple of years ago for a few weeks, I loved it. It might have been about 400-500 sq ft? Just a small living area, small kitchen, small bedroom--no hallways. However, 90% of my stuff was still at my house. I brought a very minimal wardrobe (maybe 20 pieces total for six weeks), my computer, and one plastic tub of assorted things like books and project work stuff. I never needed anything at all, so it made me think maybe I could radically downsize if I put my mind to it.

[catherine]

OK, here's another small house (http://inhabitat.com/architect-builds-tiny-196-square-foot-dream-house-from-scratch/macy-miller-tiny-house-13/?extend=1), off of Inhabitat's website.

What do you think?

[JaneV2.0]

I think it would be a most excellent getaway. Just hitch it to your rig, and go.

[rodeosweetheart]

WOW! I am in love. Okay, who needs 1200 square feet anyway. I think we could fit one piano in there.
It is so pretty.

[Gardenarian]

Pretty!

[Gregg]

I've spent a lot of time, over many years, thinking about how much space a person needs to feel comfortable. Its not just me, there are thousands of studies and almost as many books on the subject in every university's architecture & anthropology & sociology & psychology departments. There is no pat answer. There are significant cultural as well as individual factors that add up to a different total for each of us.

Entire Inuit families can live in an igloo smaller than my kitchen and apparently do just fine. I would be guilty of one of the 'cides (homicide, suicide, etc.) in that situation. If I were single I think 400 - 500 sq.ft. would be just about perfect for me. At one point we had a 5600 sq.ft. house when 2 of the kids were still at home. WAY too big for us, DD1 was the only one who felt comfortable in that space, but she tends to exist in her own bubble more than the rest of us so external factors don't have much effect on her. Our new house is 800 sq.ft. For full disclosure there is a full, walk-out basement so its really 1600, but we live on the main level. Anyway, that is about perfect for two of us with DD2 still officially inhabiting the lower level and occasionally making an appearance upstairs. My BIL and his wife are right down the road in ~3200 sq.ft. and are happy as clams with just the two of them rambling around in that house.

For me personally there is now a sense of responsibility to decrease my footprint. I've also completed the cycle through the 'need' to acquire more stuff with the space to show it off and then jettisoned (most of) the stuff. DW is smarter, she never needed the acquisition in the first place. Adding to that is that I grew up with my folks and three brothers in 1300 sq.ft. so that kind of space never felt crowded. In the end something like 500 sq.ft. for the first person and 300 sq.ft. for each additional full-time resident is extremely comfortable for my family as long as we also have access to outdoor space. YMMV.

[Gregg]

Stages of life. Starting out this would be great and represent freedom, then you get to marriage/family and more space needed. Probably some hobbies when the kids are gone and your at an empty house. Then small again when you age.

As with most things its a matter of weighing needs, wants and abilities. There is no right or wrong answer, only what works best for an individual/family. Its a wonderful thing to have so many different options available, aye?

[Spartana]

rodeosweetheart, I hear you. As much as I drool at these little houses, I think I take the space in my own house for granted. It does help at times like last weekend when all the kids came down. When I stayed in the little cottage on the beach a couple of years ago for a few weeks, I loved it. It might have been about 400-500 sq ft? Just a small living area, small kitchen, small bedroom--no hallways. However, 90% of my stuff was still at my house. I brought a very minimal wardrobe (maybe 20 pieces total for six weeks), my computer, and one plastic tub of assorted things like books and project work stuff. I never needed anything at all, so it made me think maybe I could radically downsize if I put my mind to it.I think you and Rodeosweetheart are right - it's more of a personal choice than a cultural or even stage of life thing. Everyone is different and even 2 people living in the same house need different amounts of space to be happy. My sister and I share a small 1950's 3 bedroom/2 bath 2 car garage house. Being a minimalist, I only need the small front bedroom with the tiny closet and my 1/2 of the garage (in which I actually park my truck!) for everything I own. My packrat sister on the other hand "needs" the master bedroom with it's double sized closet, the third small bedroom and her 1/2 of the garage as well as a large amount of patio space just for her "stuff". And that "stuff" is packed in tight from floor to ceiling in each room, closet and garage. She even had the dining room pack full of stuff but has gotten rid of some of it recently. We are both at the same stage of life with nearly identical lifestyles. Yet our "needs" for housing space is vastly different. For myself a tiny home with minimal stuff would be heaven, for her it would be terrible.