I'm conficted with the pet euthanasia decision [Archive]

CathyA

11-11-13, 11:58am

I have a (pet) chicken that is lame. Well, she can walk, but she limps horribly. I took her to an Avian specialist, thinking she had a broken bone/dislocation, and it appears to be perhaps a mass in her abdomen that's pushing on the nerve that goes to her leg..........but the vet isn't entirely certain. And we both decided a scope isn't reasonable. The hen is 10 and 1/2 years old.
I know alot of you feel fine about putting your old pets to sleep (and that's okay), but I don't feel comfortable with it. I called to refill the NSAID and pain med for another week and the vet said "I'll refill it one more time, but then we have to talk about 'quality of life' issues. I know she's probably a vet because she likes animals so much........but still, what is 'quality of life' to her might not be the same for me. Maybe people who believe in heaven can make that choice more easily, but I don't believe in heaven. The juxtaposition of seeing life, and then no-life is really traumatic for me. But that doesn't mean I want to see my pets in pain. I just can't know for sure what they feel. So I feel that my job is to be there and make them as comfortable as possible, until nature takes its course.
I'm just thinking out loud here........

iris lilies

11-11-13, 12:06pm

Well that's the essential problem, that we don't know what they feel. If we did it would be so much easier.

My idea about "quality of life" has NOTHING to do with my thoughts on heaven, I don't believe in it but more importantly, don't see a connection.

In my experience, if the vet is talking directly to you about quality of life, that means you've entered the point in the continuum where it's ok to euthanize your pet. It doesn't mean that right now is the time necessarily, but you are in the continuum. Don't carry it on too long. How will you decide when the time is right? Don't make this about you and how hard it is for you to see life and then no-life.

It is so damned hard to know when the time is right. I do agree that I want nature to take it's course in end of life situations as much as possible, but death in nature can be cruel, why not releave our pet's pain? That's a theoretical question because I don't even know how a bird is euthanized.

puglogic

11-11-13, 12:54pm

The questions for me are always these:

Is my pet suffering? And not just physical pain, but also inability to really live the life they were meant to? Can I know they aren't?
Is there any chance he will get better? Or are painkillers the only things making it possible? Will keeping him alive cause him to suffer a more painful end down the line, rather than a peaceful end now after a good life?
As I am keeping them alive, am I doing it for THEM -- so they can continue to enjoy a peaceful, good life for a while longer -- or am I doing it for ME, keeping them alive because I can't bear the thought of letting them go?

It sounds like the last one is where you might need some soul-searching, CathyA. It takes a lot of courage to do what's right for an animal, without prolonging suffering because we're interjecting our own needs and fears into it. It is one of the hardest things I've had to do, and I will face it again soon here at chez pug. I hope I can honor my pet by not prolonging things for my own sake.

Hugs to you. I know how hard this is.

Float On

11-11-13, 1:43pm

I do believe in heaven but I'm not sure the animal role there (all that debate about humans being the only creatures with souls, etc...I've met some very soulful animals).
As far as quality of life. I'm not sure I've ever heard of a chicken living that long...naturally.
If there is a mass that is pressing on the nerve. That can hurt. That can also...only get worse. And hurt more.

You said: what is 'quality of life' to her might not be the same for me. Are we talking about the chicken's quality of life...or yours? I think the chicken knows she's had a great life. She lives in the moment. She'll be o.k. if she is here or not. I know it's hard for you but she will leave 'here' sometime. You honestly can not 'will her well'.....you can come to peace with the great experience you have given both of you. Release her when it's time.

leslieann

11-11-13, 1:59pm

Not much wisdom here but sympathy. We had three cats who lived long and apparently happy lives but when each one came to the end, I was unable to euthanize. I so regret that, thinking now (that I am not in that moment) that the cats could have died from a happier (?) place or at least one with less incomprehensible stuff going on. But at the time, these cats were my children's pets and companions, family members, and I worried that my kids would think we just disposed of the old and infirm...now that my kids are adults and I am older I can see how my indecisiveness was not helpful to anyone. Cats each died at home, I buried each of them, but I could have saved them some very difficult times if only I had been willing to take action. Even saying that I am not sure I would be able to take action now on my Lab, should he be nearing death. And of course that is going to happen sometime. I sympathize with your situation, CathyA. It is hard to see how much a pet declines, too, when we see them daily...harder than if you just see them on occasion. I think that affects the perception of how bad the situation is, too.

razz

11-11-13, 2:08pm

Well, I have known human friends who earnestly wished that someone had the same compassion for them as they had had in euthanizing the suffering animals in their care.
Why are you prolonging the chicken's suffering? Nature will let animals suffer enormously and for a long time from injuries or diseases so "natural course" does not seem much of an option to me.

bae

11-11-13, 2:18pm

You are already interfering with "the natural course" by protecting this chicken from predators, and providing it shelter, water, and food.

If the bird is suffering, it's time to think seriously about your duties to this creature you have taken under your wing.

I will say, having gone through this with lots of animals, that my chief regrets come from having waited too long on several occasions, and when I look back, I was doing so because I was thinking more of my own feelings than the animal's condition.

It's a personal thing. Remember, I'm the guy who kept a very sick rat around for months by giving it injections every couple of days, and exercising it by gently swimming/washing/basking it in a sink of warm water. But that rat wasn't seemingly in pain, or having other issues, it was perky and happy until the end.

CathyA

11-11-13, 2:52pm

Thanks everyone.
I guess at this point, I don't know if she IS in alot of pain. No, she can't get around easily, nor can she scratch the ground. But she eats fine and seems to enjoy treats. During the day, I let her be with the others in the coop for a little while. I just have no idea how this is impacting her. And as has been said........maybe she's not even thinking about it. Maybe pain to a chicken is different than our human pain.
I've lost 13 other hens over the past 10 years, so I think I have a pretty good sense of things..........but then, who knows??
I know its a self preservation thing for chickens (and probably other animals) to not show their illness. That definitely happens with chickens, as they start avoiding the others and just stay by themselves, so they don't get picked on. I have 4 hens left. When they're all together, nobody bothers anybody. We're just all like old ladies just hanging out. :)

I thank you all for your perspectives. Its very hard to not take my own feelings into account. I mean isn't that what we pretty much do with everything in our lives? Continuing to care for a being who is in pain, and not "culling" them doesn't necessarily mean we're being selfish. At least that's my perspective.
So much to think about!
I will consider what you've all said. We'll see how this next week goes.

iris lilies

11-11-13, 3:03pm

... When they're all together, nobody bothers anybody. We're just all like old ladies just hanging out. :)

Me 'n my doggie we call Granny Pants share eye drops. She's got old lady dry eye, so do I! She's got hearing loss, so do I! She's fat as a tick, so am I! haha.

pinkytoe

11-11-13, 4:26pm

Bless you for taking care of her for so many years! She has likely had a wonderful chicken existence thanks to you. I will side with those that say waiting too long is much worse because you then live with the regret of allowing them to suffer. If it were me, I would wake up one morning and say, this is the day, give her a big hug and let her go.

sweetana3

11-11-13, 4:45pm

kib

11-11-13, 5:38pm

I think there is a difference between giving gentle release to an animal who is clearly suffering, and simply deciding an animal is suffering because a human in the same situation would suffer. I have seen "dogs with wheels", given carts when their hind legs didn't function. I know there are people who vehemently object to this, saying that the dog isn't allowed its essential dog-ness, that it's being used as an object of entertainment. But ... all the dogs I've seen look so Happy with the arrangement! They don't appear to be lamenting the loss of quality of life, or wondering if their peers are shunning them. I remember Bae's description of Fang/Priscilla and Mancini so well. She apparently had no clue she was "disabled" or supposed to be miserable.

I may be in the minority, but I think if your chicken still shows enthusiasm for life, let her live it a little longer. If she is clearly in pain, "depressed", not interacting, then it is probably time to help her go.

CathyA

11-11-13, 5:55pm

Thanks kib.........your thinking is alot like mine. I like how you said "shows enthusiasm for life". That's a good way of looking at it.

I'm actually trying to figure out a way of bypassing her using her leg.....like some sort of prosthesis that would allow her to at least rest that side of her body on.
In my "googling", I found a couple ducks who had lost legs and they made an artificial leg/webbed foot for them, and they did great.

The vet I saw wasn't even sure exactly what was going on. So I don't want to assume that this hen is terminal. (Although we're all terminal.....right??) Too bad more vets don't know much about chickens. Maybe that will change since alot of people in suburbia are getting them. I drained the abdomen of one of my hens about every 3-4 months for about 6 years. If I hadn't, she would have suffered and died. But she still had enthusiasm too.....as long as I drained her abdomen.

Yes, this hen does still seem to have enthusiasm. I actually have another hen that has been "sick" for a very long time. She has firm large masses in her lower abdomen. But she still has enthusiasm too! I guess you could say I now have an assisted-living coop. :)

puglogic

11-11-13, 7:54pm

I guess you could say I now have an assisted-living coop. :)

Bless you and your old ladies, CathyA :)

iris lilies

11-11-13, 8:07pm

I am going to have to face this again with a cat that has a terrible recurring sinus bacterial infection. We try and keep it down and him happy but the next time he stops eating will be the second or third time I have faced his quality of life issue and euthanization.

Our Granny Pants had pneumonia two times back to back. I told the vet that next time we will not treat it.

Well, that was months ago, maybe a year ago. The little beast is still going strong, has a chronically snotty nose, but that's all that's left from those episdoes. It is so hard to know when to stop the treatment.

sweetana3

11-11-13, 8:14pm

Iris Lilies, that is the hardest decision ever. We knew when it was bone cancer and the pain management was not working. But how much to treat and how much to spend and whether it will continue a adequate quality of life is so very difficult. In some cases I made the decision too late and one time perhaps too early. Vets are even more difficult to deal with than doctors.

Glo

11-11-13, 11:07pm

Two weeks ago I put down my beloved dog. I don't believe in suffering animals under any circumstances.

Tussiemussies

11-12-13, 12:00am

For me spiritually, I could never put an animal down. When I have a pet, many times I will pray to God that they will go with no pain and go very quickly, adding in that I could never put down my dogs. I just would not be able to do it. This did happen to two of my dogs. My one dog suffered but we thought she was going to pull out of it, when we realized she wasn't we decided to take her to be put down, and she died in my husband's arms before we got to the car. I feel I have been blessed by God in answering my prayers. All of my dogs have died at home, for two of them we were with them until the end. I am forever grateful...chris

pony mom

11-12-13, 12:25am

I'm one of the loonies who uses animal communicators to check in with my animals regularly. When my dog Gemma was near the end, I contacted the AC and asked if she was ready. She said that if I hung up the phone with her and made the appt. with the vet right after, she was fine with that. After hearing that, I still waited a few more days, even though she stopped eating right after the consultation. The AC explained that animals aren't attached to their bodies and wish to leave when they're not useful to them anymore. Speaking to her reassured me what I was feeling about whether the time was right, but I still needed to hear it from my dog. She also said that most times, they need help in crossing over (euthanizing); they usually just don't slip away on their own at the right time.

If your chicken is still behaving normally and enjoying whatever it enjoyed before, maybe it's not time yet. But when it is time, I hope you can put aside your feelings and have her pts. I dreaded doing that with my dog but honestly, it was a gift to be able to do this for her. My only regret is not doing it a few days earlier.

CathyA

11-12-13, 6:34am