View Full Version : Are we staying or leaving??
I thought we were leaving Afghanistan by the end of 2014. But evidently we are trying to negotiate staying for another decade or so. Somewhere about 8-12,000 troops to train and support the Afghan Army. You'd think 12 years of training would be enough. So what do you think? Leave? Stay?
Hope and change, hope and change.
I haven't even gotten around to hoping for an end to Afghanistan. I'm still waiting for us to close down Guantanamo.
Heck, we still have ~45,000 troops in Germany.
Wouldn't the global economy collapse if all the US troops came home" - says me somewhat facetiously.
Wouldn't the global economy collapse if all the US troops came home" - says me somewhat facetiously.
Our economy will eventually collapse if we keep them out there.
iris lilies
11-26-13, 10:23pm
Hope and change, hope and change.
I was going to say exactly that. The more things change, the more they remain the same.
I was going to say exactly that. The more things change, the more they remain the same.
The Great Sage had it right:
We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of our wrongs
They decide and the shotgun sings the song
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the four-minute song
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they all flown in the last war
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!
I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
ApatheticNoMore
11-26-13, 10:52pm
Should leave, not much more to say, I mean you're dealing with systems of such corruption and visciousness that not much more to say. If the global economic system depends on war (and that's an if) then time to rethink the economic system, not time for war. 2014 may have been brandished about, but Obama never promised an early end to Afghanistan, in his first campaign in the debates he said he would escalate it. So very little was promised there and even less delivered.
I don't think the global economy depends on war. But I do think that there is a lot of money to be made from it and that Eisenhower was correct to warn us from going down exactly the path we have. The merchants of death profit hugely from it and won't give up without a massive fight. No one ever said Satan was a pushover.
I also think politicians would have a lot harder time selling war to voters if they actually had to pay for it. As it is the Federal Reserve is printing, and using to purchase Treasuries, almost exactly the amount of money that is the federal government deficit each year. China has recently announced that they no longer plan to buy US debt. Imagine if our government had to actually find someone to lend it all the money it spends, or if the politicians had to actually "sell" the war to their constituents to justify raising taxes to pay for it. If it weren't for the federal reserve's endless money printing we'd probably be a lot less likely to be starting/continuing so much war.
The global economy may not depend on war, but there are still plenty of players who seem to think war is a cheaper/faster/easier/better means of acquisition for all those commodities that each of us depends on. Hard to see that changing any time soon.
Florence
11-27-13, 10:20am
Well, for all the good it will (probably not) do. I sent emails to the Prez, my Senators, and my Rep. stating that I think 12 years is enough and we have enough that needs to be done right here in the U.S.
I am surprised that there is not more discussion about extending the time in Afghanistan. Seems like everyone is just tired and doesn't want to think about it. IMHO.
It is sad. Easier to say a quick "thank you for your service" to a veteran than to get them out of harm's way in the first place.
The compound the US constructed in Baghdad is larger than Vatican City. The total scope of facilities in Afghanistan is well beyond that. None of them were built as temporary facilities.
Spartana
11-27-13, 10:39pm
I'm still waiting for us to close down Guantanamo. I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon. Gitmo has been a US Navy station since 1903 - or somewhere around then - and it's not going anywhere. But I think you are probably talking about the detainee program. I too hope that closes asap as I find it highly illegal. Gitmo (a place I've spend a considerable amount of time at) itself, besides being a training station for Navy and Coast Guard vessels, has one of the biggest refugee programs in the world. It has taken in and houses tens of thousands of Haitian refugees (as well as others) so it's not all bad.
As for when we pull out of Afganistan??? Probably won't happen fully - at least not until we go to war with China over a few deserted rocky islands off the Japan coast (sigh......)
But I think you are probably talking about the detainee program.
As for when we pull out of Afganistan??? Probably won't happen fully - at least not until we go to war with China over a few deserted rocky islands off the Japan coast (sigh......)
Yes, I was referring to obama's promise to close the prison there.
I suspect the neocons and Israel will figure out how to start the war with Iran before that happens.
Pretty much everything's bigger than Vatican City: "The total area covered by Vatican City is approximately 0.44 square kilometers or 110 acres. It is 0.6 miles or 1.05 kilometers long and 0.5 miles or 0.85 kilometers wide." Roughly half a mile each way - the condo complex I live in is about that size.
Pretty much everything's bigger than Vatican City:
Cool - the little airport I help run is almost exactly the size of Vatican City at ~110 acres as well. We have a single 2900 ft. runway, some taxiways, and a couple of small shacks.
Pretty much everything's bigger than Vatican City: "The total area covered by Vatican City is approximately 0.44 square kilometers or 110 acres. It is 0.6 miles or 1.05 kilometers long and 0.5 miles or 0.85 kilometers wide." Roughly half a mile each way - the condo complex I live in is about that size.
You're right, I got my facts confused. It is only the new US Embassy in Baghdad that is "nearly as large" as Vatican City. It doesn't include any of the hundreds of other buildings in the area. The largest and most expensive Embassy in the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_the_United_States,_Baghdad) is 440,000 square meters, employees 15,000 people and cost ~$750,000,000 to build. Not Afghanistan, granted, but certainly a sign we're not ready to leave that part of the world any time soon.
I cringed when I heard a newscaster say that this was the twelfth Thanksgiving for U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan.
Twelfth.
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