Ambivalent about Black Friday Sales Figures.....

[gimmethesimplelife]

I am reading online that this Black Friday weekend had more foot traffic in retail stores but less sales than last year. I find myself very ambivalent on this one. OTOH - I think it's great that people are buying less imported junk that they probably don't need. OTOH - something like 70% of this economy is based on consumer spending. Consumers spend less, things slow down as we have seen during more than one recession in the US and in the world.

I have a hard time with this one - As I said, I'm glad people are spending less - the simplicity side of me is thinking, less treadmill and work work work consume consume consume for some folks, less junk in the landfills, etc. And then I think - if people buy markedly less, there go social welfare programs for the elderly who have earned them as far as I am concerned.

I guess my point here is does anyone see this as a double edged sword? People spending less has its pros and cons, and people spending mindlessly has its pros and cons. I wonder what the sweet spot in this equation is? Maybe this will be different for different people. What do you think? Rob

[mtnlaurel]

I would be interested to see what Thanksgiving Day + Black Friday figures are when combined & how they compare with last year.

I wonder if they just split Black Friday figures by opening on Thanksgiving too this year?

[JaneV2.0]

I think your question is what are the chances the economy will gradually evolve into a more sustainable one? I don't see it happening without a revolution--peaceful or otherwise. Time will tell.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I think your question is what are the chances the economy will gradually evolve into a more sustainable one? I don't see it happening without a revolution--peaceful or otherwise. Time will tell.Yes, I think this is where I was going with this.....what we have experienced and what we are experiencing now - neither seems sustainable to me. Rob

[SteveinMN]

I agree with Jane. But, as a caveat to the Black Friday metric Rob quoted, I've seen/read that while the foot traffic was heavier, actual total sales were down. Not sure what effect that has -- we're still heavily a consumption-driven society. But maybe it's another encouraging sign that people aren't being quite so Pavlovian about forking over their money and credit cards just because shiny objects are placed in front of them. :)

[ApatheticNoMore]

I'm glad to see consumption down if it is,be cause it hurts me to see shopping without environmental awareness. It's such a strong denial, let's pretend. Like one isn't aware of butterflies and bees and fish dying etc., seems to me there's massive species die off right now and of major species on which life depends.

"This is the season of death, when we celebrate the dying of the sun with an orgiastic burst of consumption and environmental destruction. This is the season of rebirth when we spend time with loved ones and reach out to help others we don’t know."
[ok the rest of the article is weird conspiracy theories but whatever, I only quoted for the opening line]
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/12/02/what-does-latest-dead-afghan-2-year-old-have-in-common-with-paul-robeson-john-wayne-ernest-hemingway-bob-marley-the-kennedys/

Really it seems to me the death drive and the denial are strong this time of year - in the mall.

But sure social programs by current means of funding them are dependent on the economy as it is (whether there might be other means of funding them with a steady state economy I do not know). It's what people mean when they say whole economic SYSTEMS are unsustainable*. It's whole interlocking dependencies, there's no "get out of jail free" card within the current set of rules. Time for a new set of rules? No kidding.

* Obliviously many places manage without U.S. levels of consumption, but it's still not necessarily to the point of complete sustainability.

[ToomuchStuff]

Correlation does not equal causation (remember that?). Heavier foot traffic, could also mean more of using the stores for demo's/hands on, product inspection, while they go order it online, from somewhere else. I heard on the radio, that total sales were up, but the average sale was down, yet nothing was brought up about the payroll tax increase, or other taxes, that may or may not, have been connected. (the research if there, wasn't presented)
I also would like to see some stats on things that I have been witnessing, like:
Those that have been paying down their debt
Those that just keep paying around the same and floating where they are
Those that are increasing their debt.

But it has been a long time since we went from a customer society, to a consume society.

[Lainey]

. .. Heavier foot traffic, could also mean more of using the stores for demo's/hands on, product inspection, while they go order it online, from somewhere else. . .

This was my thought too. I think yesterday's "Cyber Monday" sales were pretty good, right?

[ToomuchStuff]

This was my thought too. I think yesterday's "Cyber Monday" sales were pretty good, right?


From the story on the radio this morning (alarm clock), internet sales were up, higher then expected. Stores may have to give deeper discounts then they anticipated, causing lower fourth quarter figures.