View Full Version : DH's health insurance premiums more than doubled !!
DH just learned last night that his employer-sponsored health plan rates will more than double - basically it will go up to just under $5000 a year. The thing that really bothers us that his employer never sent any information until yesterday and then it was too late to consider other options like opting out or switching to mine. I have looked into the laws and because of all the confusion, employers will not be penalized this year for not providing advance notice. Additionally, the deductibles, co-pays and out of pocket are so high that we said "why bother." What a mess this is...
ApatheticNoMore
12-4-13, 1:16pm
So is he going with the "why bother" insurance or not? Make sure it's really too late to get him on your insurance, spouse losing insurance is one reason you can add a spouse to your insurance mid-year after open-enrollment. So we're stretching the definition of losing a bit, but it might meet the legal criteria, losing because he could no longer afford it.
I won't even know my new yearly insurance rates till sometime in Feb, so it really makes it near impossible to have anything other than whatever the employee decides to provide for the year regardless (too late for anything else although I doubt iffy exchange plans are better).
gimmethesimplelife
12-4-13, 5:59pm
Pinkytoe - this is horrible. Absolutely horrible. I have to say that while I am getting on expanded Medicaid, (completely free) - it is not right that your DH's policy should double in cost. That's just wrong. I can see that there are going to be numerous issues with the ACA going forward and in this case I side with you and not the ACA. I also think it's wrong that I will be getting my insurance free of charge without some requirement to do a token amount of community service as I have posted before.
I am still glad that health insurance has been tackled as with the prior status quo there were far too many victims and for many living in the United States was just not a viable option going forward due to how health care is doled out in this country. BUT now it seems we have folks at my level in half the states covered by Medicaid at who knows what cost and the victimhood has crept up a bit to a higher income level and I am not one to say let them know what I know about America - I am for eliminating this victimhood completely. It does not seem at the moment that the ACA does this and for this reason I'm not feeling the love for the ACA quite as much lately. Rob
PS I came back to add that I hope the conservatives here don't go into shock but.....as the ACA stands at the moment - it does need some work and some revisions in my opinion, and this is coming from one of the health care "winners." One of my problems with American society overall is this tendency to think of people in terms of winners or losers based and financial and/or material criteria - now we seem to have expanded this concept into health care and I'm just not down with that. In my book we need to be all equal in terms of health care - or have concierge care for those willing/able to pay for it as this exists in Canada. But at the base level in my book we need to be all equal as to health care. And I'm not seeing that in the ACA. Rob
$5000-$6500/yr is about what people are paying now if they don't have an employer to pay for them. Health care is severely broken.
Pinkytoe - this is horrible. Absolutely horrible. I have to say that while I am getting on expanded Medicaid, (completely free) - it is not right that your DH's policy should double in cost. That's just wrong. I can see that there are going to be numerous issues with the ACA going forward and in this case I side with you and not the ACA. I also think it's wrong that I will be getting my insurance free of charge without some requirement to do a token amount of community service as I have posted before.
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Just so you know Rob, Medicaid is not free. Your neighbors are paying it for you.
The same goes for the subsidies provided under the ACA. Your neighbors, such as Pinkytoe, are paying for those as well. It takes a lot of redistribution to make you a "winner".
gimmethesimplelife
12-4-13, 8:05pm
Just so you know Rob, Medicaid is not free. Your neighbors are paying it for you.
The same goes for the subsidies provided under the ACA. Your neighbors, such as Pinkytoe, are paying for those as well. It takes a lot of redistribution to make you a "winner".I understand what you mean, Alan, I only meant that for me personally there are no costs. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
12-4-13, 8:14pm
$5000-$6500/yr is about what people are paying now if they don't have an employer to pay for them. Health care is severely broken.I agree with you, that health care is severely broken. What really chaps me is that if you get permanent residency in Mexico, you can get on their national insurance plan at less than 10% of your figures for insurance for a year. Access to health care is really my big issue as for me, it ties into basic human rights and basic human dignity. And I see America failing on this metric big time. And I'm starting to see that this failure is spreading up through the social classes instead of being contained to the bottom.
I don't have any answers, really. I do believe that more people will be leaving the US to take up permanent residency elsewhere with the nightmare that healthcare is in America being a driving force. As one of the winners in this game due to expanded Medicaid, I find myself alarmed that the health care fear I have known for so many years is sifting upwards in US society now - I so hoped that the ACA would level the playing field more. My answer is to be close to Mexico and to save what I can.....I still think in the future I'm better off leaving the US and I was so hoping the ACA would alleviate that but it seems to redistribute terror of US healthcare upwards in society - not a good answer in my book. This is not going to lead to a coherent society in the future. Rob
Came back to add - I used the wrong word - I meant to say this is not going to lead to a cohesive society in the future.
I understand what you mean, Alan, I only meant that for me personally there are no costs. Rob
Perhaps no monetary costs. But does it cost you anything in self-respect? Or make you feel vaguely guilty that your good fortune is coming from taking away from others?
gimmethesimplelife
12-4-13, 8:18pm
I understand what you mean, Alan, I only meant that for me personally there are no costs. Rob
PS I came back to ask you something if I may? You are in Ohio, right? And John Kasich, a Republican, is your governor? What do you make of his expanding Medicaid against the Republican party in Ohio, with this stance of compassionate conservatism? It probably comes as no surprise that I have a great deal of respect for the man - him and Jan Brewer, governor of Arizona are Republicans I truly have respect for no matter where they stand on numerous other issues. Rob
I agree with you, that health care is severely broken. What really chaps me is that if you get permanent residency in Mexico, you can get on their national insurance plan at less than 10% of your figures for insurance for a year. Access to health care is really my big issue as for me,...
I will buy you a bus ticket.
gimmethesimplelife
12-4-13, 8:21pm
Perhaps no monetary costs. But does it cost you anything in self-respect? Or make you feel vaguely guilty that your good fortune is coming from taking away from others?Bae, as I have stated repeatedly, I am not seeing this from an American perspective, I am seeing this from a perspective of what is good for the collective whole. I don't see self respect entering into this equation period. I was raised to believe in the good of the collective whole and I am grateful I never really bought into American thinking - for the most part. I am sure somewhere along the way I have picked up some of it but not in life and death matters such as health care. I do think America in general has a lack of self respect for making health care so unattainable for so many, and seeing this, and realizing that such is not an issue in many other countries, I respectfully say - no, I don't buy into American thinking at this level. On this one I must reject it. Rob
PS I came back to add that my taxes are very low, I get this. But I would willingly pay 50% more if it meant that other people had access to health care, too. I care about the collective whole that much, and this is something I cherish about myself and won't yield on. I guess you could go as far as to say I find self respect in this, too.
gimmethesimplelife
12-4-13, 8:27pm
I will buy you a bus ticket.No need, Bae, I am close enough to the border that I can swing the ticket solo. Rob
PS I came back to ask you something if I may? You are in Ohio, right? And John Kasich, a Republican, is your governor? What do you make of his expanding Medicaid against the Republican party in Ohio, with this stance of compassionate conservatism? It probably comes as no surprise that I have a great deal of respect for the man - him and Jan Brewer, governor of Arizona are Republicans I truly have respect for no matter where they stand on numerous other issues. Rob
I think that states that succumb to the lure of "Federal" money to expand services are taking a short-term approach, as most politicians do. Once these states have fully vested themselves, and the Federal redistribution gets turned off, as it probably will at some point down the road, they'll have one helluva time dealing with the reality since most states don't have the luxury of running budget deficits.
ApatheticNoMore
12-4-13, 9:23pm
And I'm starting to see that this failure is spreading up through the social classes instead of being contained to the bottom.
It's spreading up the social classes by deliberate design of the ACA. How can one not say the design was to soak the middle class? I mean one can say that a lot of things are spreading to the middle class where the hand is less visible (like outsourcing jobs or whatever - I think they knew what trade agreements would do there too, but several layers of indirection there), with the ACA I think it was very much part of the plan to soak the middle class. And if people lose employer provided insurance or have deductables that the median income in the country doesn't support, well that's great because it bends cost curves, or something so we're told, what do we know, we're just cost curves after all (have you ever heard of a cost curve thinking? no I didnt' think so).
iris lilies
12-4-13, 9:46pm
I think that states that succumb to the lure of "Federal" money to expand services are taking a short-term approach, as most politicians do. Once these states have fully vested themselves, and the Federal redistribution gets turned off, as it probably will at some point down the road, they'll have one helluva time dealing with the reality since most states don't have the luxury of running budget deficits.
Exactly. It like we are the Grownups, the states that did not expand Medicaid for that 3 year period where the feds will "pay" (as though that is not using tax dollars ) and we have to say oh kiddies, now remember, this freebee is only good for 3 years and then you have to pay the piper. doh.
This thing is known as Obamacare is completely, irretrievably f**ked. I was actually hoping it would provide SOME stability in the open market so that I can retire "early" (i.e. before jumping on the government titty of Medicaid.) But it is falling apart before my very eyes.
gimmethesimplelife
12-4-13, 10:09pm
Exactly. It like we are the Grownups, the states that did not expand Medicaid for that 3 year period where the feds will "pay" (as though that is not using tax dollars ") and we have to say oh kiddies, now remember, this freebee is only good for 3 years and then you have to pay the piper. doh.
This thing is known as Obamacare is completely, irretrievably f**ked. I was actually hoping it would provide SOME stability in the open market so that I can retire "early" (i.e. before jumping on the government titty of Medicaid.) But it is falling apart before my very eyes.IL, I don't think ObamaCare is (fill in the expletive here) but I do see issues arising that I had not before, and I don't know that it will/can survive in it's present form. Not only that but there continue to be a number of legal challenges that the ACA faces going forward. Seriously, I think a good business to get into now would be some kind of advisory role for folks wanting to bail out of the US due to health care.....Hmmmm. This is a role I could probably fill quite well all things considered, but I'm digressing again.
I do agree too to some degree that ObamaCare is falling apart before our eyes. And as a "winner"of the ACA, I don't much like what I am seeing the consequences of the ACA are as it sifts upwards through the social classes. I am not totally against the ACA per se - it does represent some kind of attempt no matter how lame to cover more people and there were just too many victims before, victims of whom have little voice in America. It will be interesting to see the future of the ACA as the consequences of it sift upwards to those who DO have some token voice in society. I don't know that I see this ending well BUT I do see one silver lining - more and more people are becoming aware that US health care is (fill in with the prior expletive). I find hope in this knowledge sifting upwards in US society. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
12-4-13, 10:14pm
It's spreading up the social classes by deliberate design of the ACA. How can one not say the design was to soak the middle class? I mean one can say that a lot of things are spreading to the middle class where the hand is less visible (like outsourcing jobs or whatever - I think they knew what trade agreements would do there too, but several layers of indirection there), with the ACA I think it was very much part of the plan to soak the middle class. And if people lose employer provided insurance or have deductables that the median income in the country doesn't support, well that's great because it bends cost curves, or something so we're told, what do we know, we're just cost curves after all (have you ever heard of a cost curve thinking? no I didnt' think so).APN, I'm not attacking you here, I am just asking you a question. Do you really believe that the ACA was designed to soak what is left of the US middle class? I'm 50/50 with you on that one but if this does become common public perception, I truly do fear for the future of this society. I don't think most Americans would cotton well to this if it became the majority public opinion, what do you think? Rob
ApatheticNoMore
12-4-13, 11:08pm
What I think is known: there are few attempts to control costs in the ACA, some measures that would have had some effect on controlling costs (drug importation) went nowhere. The bill is a combination of 1) very little in the form of cost controls 2) privatized profits 3) public financing. Does that combination ever actually end well? I mean that combination seems a disaster in the making.
Then there's also a belief that in order to control what costs they can (very minimal) via the marketplace people should pay more out of pocket. Well deductables are rising. But if more and more people can't afford to pay out of pocket at all? I think there's also a belief that with less people on employer plans and having to pay entirely for thier own plans costs would fall.
Whether they knew the EXACT games the insurance companies would play - narrow networks etc., I dont' know. They know that basic healthcare costs are uncontrolled (hospitalization, drug costs etc.), that insurance companies have new mandates on them (to cover people with preexisting conditions etc.), and that insurance companies goal is to produce profit and that they are allowed to keep 20% of overhead (so those people are probably not going to be covered out of profits or something).
I guess we had to pass it to see what was in it!
flowerseverywhere
12-5-13, 12:24am
Gimmethesimplelife, I think you have to be joking. You are getting free care yet still threaten to leave the us for greener (in your mind) pastures. In the meantime people are losing their coverage or watching their premiums skyrocket. So many hardworking middle class people are really being hurt. Yet it is almost gloating on your part. I just don't get it. You can't be real. Come on, tell me you are putting us on.
I was just talking with someone last night about how the word "victim" is being used to describe a host of perceived harms. I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around its use in relation to the topic. I totally get that it is horrible to not have insurance, been there done that. But I never would have thought myself a "victim" for not having it.
gimmethesimplelife
12-5-13, 1:03am
Gimmethesimplelife, I think you have to be joking. You are getting free care yet still threaten to leave the us for greener (in your mind) pastures. In the meantime people are losing their coverage or watching their premiums skyrocket. So many hardworking middle class people are really being hurt. Yet it is almost gloating on your part. I just don't get it. You can't be real. Come on, tell me you are putting us on.No, I'm not kidding nor am I gloating. I have lived with the constant fear of not having insurance and what happens if I get sick. Once you've been there - at least in my case - I have seen everything, and I mean everything, differently. I've lost most of my faith in society and in institutions and see things (for the most part, there are some exceptions) in terms of social class. I'm probably this country's worst nightmare - I'm no terrorist but I ask the hard questions and from a place of fear and distrust of the system to begin with.
And I'm really not gloating - honestly. The fact that my life is actually going to be worth insurance as of January 1st floors me and I really don't quite believe it. I always thought I'd have to leave the US to have my life worth that. Many people reading these words are not going to get it, but if you've ever been in this place, you will. I also don't like that other people are going to have to pay more copays and deductibles so that my life can be worth insurance, but maybe if this fear drifts upward - maybe, maybe, maybe more will know this constant fear and distrust and maybe more will agitate for some kind of constructive change? In my dreams such could happen,in reality, I just don't know. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
12-5-13, 1:06am
I was just talking with someone last night about how the word "victim" is being used to describe a host of perceived harms. I am having a hard time wrapping my brain about its use in relation to the topic. I totally get that it is horrible to not have insurance, been there done that. But I never would have thought myself a "victim" for not having it.I see it as a form of being a potential victim, as is I were a citizen of any other country in the developed world, this would not be an issue as I would have access to healthcare guaranteed. The victim part comes in due to the reduction in the quality of life suffered by the constant worry of getting sick and losing whatever progress you have made. Rob
I'm in that place now, Rob, since you cancelled my insurance that I bought on the free market.
gimmethesimplelife
12-5-13, 1:35am
I'm in that place now, Rob, since you cancelled my insurance that I bought on the free market.Bae, I didn't cancel your policy. Your insurance company did, I'm guessing because it didn't meet the standards of ObamaCare? Personally, if I could legitimately get subsidies, I would be thrilled to get a more comprehensive plan out of the deal. I don't know your financial situation, nor am I prying, but I can understand if you don't qualify for subsidies and wind up with a huge premium increase why you would be less than pleased. It's kind of like the last American dentist I ever went to who was so enraged that I would even consider having my dental work done in Mexico to save money - I guess he never thought he'd have to deal with people leaving the US to find a better deal, in this case lowering the costs of dental work so they are saner. Those who get the premium increases - and I'm not saying it's good that this is happening, please don't get me wrong - maybe those people possibly begin to understand what the fear of being without insurance in America is like if you have more than two sticks to rub together.
Let me put it this way. My cousin and I own a house together here in Phoenix and I have been without insurance since 2010 - she has had it off and off, off and on. We made a deal that if either one of us ever get sick, we'll die so that the other won't get screwed out of the house. I will never forgive America for this conversation - I would not need to have it in any other country in the developed world. It's a big difference between having such a conversation and getting a premium increase in the mail, however nasty that may be - and I am not saying this is not nasty. And Bae, I'd rather that you were allowed to keep your policy in the first place - this was indeed promised and I can understand being disillusioned by this.
Try having the conversation I had with my cousin about the house, though - for anyone who thinks I am being insincere. Something crossed over in me as a result of this - Pretty much I gave up on America for the most part. For me, I doubt there will be turning back at this point. Rob
ApatheticNoMore
12-5-13, 2:22am
I wouldn't choose to die for a house, a bunch of wood and the land it sits on (but I accept renting of course, sure I wish houses were cheap and affordable, but not here). Plus and I have thought about it, though I'll get pushback from others who hope to live in it though they pay no rent, I'll sell her house if mom ever needs long term care and there's no other way to pay for it (since nothing including Medicare will cover long term care). Though in such a situation I could see if renting it brings in enough by itself. I guess I've made up my mind about me and property ownership - I'm probably about as likely to win the lottery as to stumble into a deed or a mortgage.
$5000-$6500/yr is about what people are paying now if they don't have an employer to pay for them.
Is that for family or indvidual coverage? My BC/BS family coverage will be about $18,000+ next year. Tack on dental and it's pushing $20k.
We pay $25,000/yr for medical coverage. There were 4 of us under this coverage, but DD reached the age cut-off, so now there's only 3 of us on the plan......but the price is the same. :( Plus, we have a $6,000 deductible.
I just want to say that you might not agree with Gimmethesimplelife, but you have to give him credit for not being obnoxious/dogmatic/closed minded in his conversations. He's taking chances in opening up with his beliefs and sounds honest about trying to keep an open mind. He is not hostile, as some others are. (Like the "I'll buy you a ticket to Mexico" just wasn't necessary).
catherine
12-5-13, 10:09am
Let me put it this way. My cousin and I own a house together here in Phoenix and I have been without insurance since 2010 - she has had it off and off, off and on. We made a deal that if either one of us ever get sick, we'll die so that the other won't get screwed out of the house. I will never forgive America for this conversation - I would not need to have it in any other country in the developed world.
My husband's best friend's father divorced his wife "on paper" for the same reason--so he wouldn't have to divest all he had when she came down with Alzheimer's and he was forced to put her in long-term care.
Which begs the question: who here is also considering long-term care insurance? And do we need to?
And another general question: Are we entitled to our homes in the face of illness or any other catastrophe?
My DH is a video producer and editor and he did a piece for the NJ AARP when seniors were faced with property tax increases. DH is great at creating stuff that makes you cry, so he really did a very dramatic video of a 76 year old woman's house disappearing behind her. Her father had built it and in the narrative she stated she'd have to lose her house if property taxes went up. Then he played Johnny Cash's "Hurt" in the background with the lyrics
Everyone I know goes away
In the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
Well, AARP was successful at reversing the property tax increase. But my feeling was that she was whining a little. A lot of people move when they don't feel they can afford high property taxes. (Just for the record, however, I believe strongly that there should be property tax freezes for senior citizens)
Anyway that's a whole other issue. Sorry for the diversion, but rob, your story called this to mind.
Back to the question: Yes it is definitely a horrible choice to have to make. Healthcare reform has to come about one way or another to mitigate need to go bankrupt, lose homes and property, or die.
As for me, I have to force myself to stay alive to work as hard as I can because the IRS apparently doesn't feel I'm entitled to my house if I haven't given them their pound of flesh :) I figure I'll allow myself to die in 2018 or later, but no sooner.
We pay $25,000/yr for medical coverage.
I am sorry that $5000 a year seems piddly to some of you. I would not, on principle, pay what some of you are paying, even if I had the income. We have a middle income so for us, so a doubling of the premium is a lot to come out of the paycheck. DH cornered his boss about this whole situation of not being informed up front and he was very apologetic about letting him "fall through the cracks". In the end, he is selecting the bare bones policy with a lower premium and we will look into putting him on mine as it will be better coverage. In all of my web searching yesterday about the ACA, I am beginning to think the insurance companies are taking advantage right now - they may be the real problem here. I guess we will see what their profits look like at the end of the year.
catherine
12-5-13, 12:01pm
I would not, on principle, pay what some of you are paying, even if I had the income.
Just curious, what would you do? (Not being snarky, I'm really looking for a reasonable out for my $20k+ insurance bill and can't find one)
Just curious, what would you do?
I might see a doctor once a year at most so presently it doesn't make sense to pay that kind of money. I pay cash for dental and eye issues as I don't have those coverages. I have a personal belief that doctors aren't of much use except in emergencies anyway. However, to help allay the cost of any future catastrophic illness or injury, I would buy the barest bones policy I could afford and rely on savings for the rest. For now, my premiums for fairly good health coverage are paid for by my employer (state of Texas). When I retire in two years, the majority of the premium will still be paid by them. My father was a doctor and ultimately died a quick death from pancreatic cancer. He told me then that he knew the outcome and wasn't going to spend vast sums on chemo or other time-buying options. That would be my choice, too.
I would buy the barest bones policy I could afford and rely on savings for the rest
Yeah, that was my idea, too, but unfortunately no can do in New Jersey. There are 0 catastrophic plans now.
The Storyteller
12-5-13, 1:16pm
Which begs the question: who here is also considering long-term care insurance? And do we need to?
My wife and I both have it. If something happened to me that made me unable to work (which is a distinct possibility with my medical history), there is no way she can carry our current commitments alone. Certainly we could downsize considerably and survive, but do we really want to?
But then, do I really need a farm if I am unable to work it?
I will be eligible for both early retirement at my job and social security a year from now, which together come to a decent income, so I will likely drop mine at the next open enrollment.
What I am reading now: Jim Henson: The Biography, by Brian Jay Jones
OT: How is this book? I adore Jim Henson and was crushed when he died.
How can you live without insurance? We could lose everything.......our home, DH's business.......everything, if one of us got really sick or were in accidents.
If you don't have anything, there is nothing to lose. If you have a huge amount, medical care can be self insured. It is the vast majority in the middle that need some protection from disaster for the whole family.
I have health insurance from Whole Foods and I am presently almost $2000 in debt from the high deductible. I make $11/hr and have a monthly car payment and higher car insurance ~ I have to do things like have a housemate and sell my blood plasma just to make ends meet. I am on a payment plan for the medical bills, and that just got bumped up to $100 per month.
My life was a lot easier in some ways when I didn't have health insurance (I just never went to the doctor for three years) and I had an old car that was paid for. I was living debt-free. That lasted a good long time, but now I am up there with most other people with major long-term fiduciary obligations before them. I don't like it at all.
I guess I am glad I have health insurance, but our premium is going up and the deductible is going up even further. It was $2300 and now it will be over $3200. Thank god I just found out I don't need any knee surgery any time soon...
Has anyone actually signed up on the exchange yet, I mean those who arn't getting theirs for free? I just checked on the ehealthinsuance site and to replace what I already have is basically the same price. I would think an old fart like me it would be cheaper. My wife is younger, but still 50+. We are both non smokers. The rate was still $1335 a month or a little over $16,000 a year for similar what we have now. If I have an income of $63000 I would get no subsidy, at $62,000 I would get $4708 or $392 a month.
With the feds keeping fixed income returns around 0% it may be the only way to get a return on cash.
I wonder why our dear leader didn't have a early retired millionaire on his show the other day telling how great Obamacare is going to be for the affluent who live off their investments?
I have health insurance from Whole Foods and I am presently almost $2000 in debt from the high deductible. I make $11/hr and have a monthly car payment and higher car insurance ~ I have to do things like have a housemate and sell my blood plasma just to make ends meet. I am on a payment plan for the medical bills, and that just got bumped up to $100 per month.
My life was a lot easier in some ways when I didn't have health insurance (I just never went to the doctor for three years) and I had an old car that was paid for. I was living debt-free. That lasted a good long time, but now I am up there with most other people with major long-term fiduciary obligations before them. I don't like it at all.
I guess I am glad I have health insurance, but our premium is going up and the deductible is going up even further. It was $2300 and now it will be over $3200. Thank god I just found out I don't need any knee surgery any time soon...
I wonder how many are going to find out they are forced to pay for health insurance with deductables they couldn't possibly pay?
I went to a health insurance company trade show conference last December, and I wondered why nobody seemed overly freaked out about Obamacare. I thought they would since this was supposedly a "socialist, anti-business" initiative. I'm starting to think that maybe the reason they were still smiling is because they had crunched the numbers and had seen the windfall. I must admit, I feel a little duped right now, and plan on writing my congressman.
I am discouraged. DMC, my ehealthinsurance quote was the same as well, except for the fact that suddenly I can't choose low-priced options.
gimmethesimplelife
12-5-13, 7:50pm
We pay $25,000/yr for medical coverage. There were 4 of us under this coverage, but DD reached the age cut-off, so now there's only 3 of us on the plan......but the price is the same. :( Plus, we have a $6,000 deductible.
I just want to say that you might not agree with Gimmethesimplelife, but you have to give him credit for not being obnoxious/dogmatic/closed minded in his conversations. He's taking chances in opening up with his beliefs and sounds honest about trying to keep an open mind. He is not hostile, as some others are. (Like the "I'll buy you a ticket to Mexico" just wasn't necessary).Cathy, Thank You for your kind words. They mean a lot to me. And I just wanted to say that the fact that you are paying $25,000/yr. to cover 3 people with such a huge deductible - in it's own way, that is up there with the conversation I had with my cousin about the house - completely inexcusable. I don't know how to change this but I just wanted to say I can understand why you'd be less than pleased when faced with these costs and that deductible. Your insurance costs truly seem criminal to me - it should be illegal for them to be so sky high. What's the line Clinton used to say all the time? I feel your pain. I might not be in your economic circumstances, but I feel your pain - I can understand. Rob
ApatheticNoMore
12-5-13, 9:44pm
I went to a health insurance company trade show conference last December, and I wondered why nobody seemed overly freaked out about Obamacare. I thought they would since this was supposedly a "socialist, anti-business" initiative. I'm starting to think that maybe the reason they were still smiling is because they had crunched the numbers and had seen the windfall.
I guess I had always heard that the bill was basically written by the insurance companies (by Wellpoint - Wellpoint is the parent company for Blue Cross/ Blue Shield). I didn't do in depth investigations on it though (really before this job my premiums used to be nothing of nothing - can't believe i'm paying so much now), I guess it was written by a previous Wellpoint VP.
Hey, Glenn Greenwald:
"What was most amazing about all of that was that, before joining Baucus' office as the point person for the health care bill, Fowler was the Vice President for Public Policy and External Affairs (i.e. informal lobbying) at WellPoint, the nation's largest health insurance provider (before going to WellPoint, as well as after, Fowler had worked as Baucus' top health care aide).
Now, as Politico's "Influence" column briefly noted on Tuesday, Fowler is once again passing through the deeply corrupting revolving door as she leaves the Obama administration to return to the loving and lucrative arms of the private health care industry"
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/05/obamacare-fowler-lobbyist-industry1
So apparently it was written by an ex-VP of a major major insurance company (Wikipedia says it's the largest for-profit HMO - yea Kaiser is "non-profit" - don't get me started) whose recent career path is: insurance company lobbyist -> writing the ACA -> pharma (no I have no idea if the Fowler person is still with Johnson and Johnson - but that article about them taking the job was written exactly one year ago today - synchronicity).
iris lilies
12-5-13, 9:53pm
My husband's best friend's father divorced his wife "on paper" for the same reason--so he wouldn't have to divest all he had when she came down with Alzheimer's and he was forced to put her in long-term care.
Which begs the question: who here is also considering long-term care insurance? And do we need to?
That is my plan. I have Alzheimer's in my family. When I come down with it (somewhat likely) I will divorce DH "on paper" and he can have half of our assets in that action. I'll get the other half. That's only fair to him, he who works 12 hours days, buys little, and accumulates wealth.
And no, Rob, I don't consider this society's problem to preserve my assets, that is MY responsibility, using the legal avenues that now exist. Why would the taxpayers owe me anything so that I can preserve my own stuff FOR ME first? If I am destitute, then perhaps I would expect some help from taxpayers, but not until then.
And another general question: Are we entitled to our homes in the face of illness or any other catastrophe?
So many "homes" of the elderly are huge, unwieldy, and entirely impractical. I am not sympathetic to the idea of keeping seniors "in their home" at all costs. That cost can be pretty dang high. I know. I live in an urban core of 19th century houses and we all know the money pits they are. It is just not practical. That's one reason why I think that Village movement is stupid.
catherine, that IS one of the central questions of this issue: what assets may a destitute person have before the taxpayers jump in to support him or her? Your DH's video would have made me roll my eyes :) as just one more liberal piece of faux-victimhood.
iris lilies
12-5-13, 10:08pm
I wonder how many are going to find out they are forced to pay for health insurance with deductables they couldn't possibly pay?
I have wondered that very thing. Even though I can't get onto the ACA site to check it out thoroughly, I can't understand how the Bronze plan will actually save hospitals much money in emergency care because the average person won't be able tot pay for that deductible, anyway. The hospital will still do the treatment and be unable to collect.
Does the ACA remove obligations of hospitals to provide emergency treatment?
I also was interested in Roger's observation upthread that insurance companies, even before the ACA, weren't all that good of an investment. I've wondered about that.
But I don't think that health insurance companies are laughing all the way to the bank as catherine fears. They can't consider pre-existing conditions and that would hardly allow them to make bags of money.
DH just learned last night that his employer-sponsored health plan rates will more than double - basically it will go up to just under $5000 a year. The thing that really bothers us that his employer never sent any information until yesterday and then it was too late to consider other options like opting out or switching to mine. I have looked into the laws and because of all the confusion, employers will not be penalized this year for not providing advance notice. Additionally, the deductibles, co-pays and out of pocket are so high that we said "why bother." What a mess this is...
This has been happening to a lot of my employed friends who have health insurance covered by their employer - as well as people like me who bought their own plans themselves. Most have seen more-than-their-past-average price increases for this coming year and it's because the insurance companies are raising rates even for group policies as well as individual policies. My low cost/high deductible policy was cancelled and a similar new policy will cost 3 times more in monthly premiums and several thousand more in deductibles as well as increases in co-pays and co-insurance. So what's happening to your DH is happening to many, many others with group insurance rates. Not sure if those with employer health coverage can apply for and get any subsidies but that might be worth checking out.
Just curious, what would you do? (Not being snarky, I'm really looking for a reasonable out for my $20k+ insurance bill and can't find one)
Quit the job and live on the government dole! Just joking but I can see that there might be more and more people willing to do that if they are really only working for the health insurance benefit. If a person lives in an expanded Medicaid state like Calif or Arizona - states which no longer require assets to be counted to get Medicaid, only income - they can reduce their income by leaving employment, or working part time or even by just putting the max into tax deferred investments like 401Ks, 457s, and Traditional IRAs so that they are at or below the $16K Medicaid limit - or close enough to get almost full subsidies. They could still have millions in assets and get Medicaid or subsidies! And for those people who don't live in Medicaid expanded states, well they can always spend down their assets on fun stuff (a 5 star trip to Europe - alrighty!!) or can always find a way to hide their assets... or just move to a state that has expanded Medicaid so you can keep all your assets and still get Medicaid for free!
OK maybe that's not a solution for most - at least not an ethical one (although I do see that there is a lot of incentive to do something like that when you are being forced to pay very high prices for insurance or be fined). But I think most people who choose not to buy insurance will just pay the penalty, go to the dr rarely, if ever, and hope and pray nothing happens to them. And if it does they will probably just claim bankruptcy and have their medical bills resolved that way.
My husband's best friend's father divorced his wife "on paper" for the same reason--so he wouldn't have to divest all he had when she came down with Alzheimer's and he was forced to put her in long-term care.
.In Calif it would probably be best for them to stay married because we have a "spousal anti-poverty law" that allows one spouse to retain the family home and a vehicle as well as all of their own income/investments/pensions/and separate assets/etc... if the other spouse has to go into long term nursing home care. Only the income and separate assets from the ill spouse is counted towards their ability to pay. So once their separate income and any assets are used to pay for their care, then anything extra will be picked up by the state's Medicaid. The well spouse can continue to live in the home, keep all their personal separate assets and all their separate income.
In the event of a single person needing to go into long term care - well the state also provides a way for that person to keep their home as long as there is a belief that at some point they can return to live in the home. When that person dies, then the house is sold as part of the estate and state will get paid back for any care they funded.
My long term care plan is basicly the second part - first spend down all my assets to pay for my care and then let the state fund my care once my assets are gone (and of course they will also collect any monthly pensions, etc.. I get) and then sell my house once I die to re-pay them - or if it looks like I can never live on my own there again - sell it while I'm alive and use that to pay for my continuing care until I am broke and Medicaid can kick in.
My DH is a video producer and editor and he did a piece for the NJ AARP when seniors were faced with property tax increases. DH is great at creating stuff that makes you cry, so he really did a very dramatic video of a 76 year old woman's house disappearing behind her. Her father had built it and in the narrative she stated she'd have to lose her house if property taxes went up.
Well, AARP was successful at reversing the property tax increase. But my feeling was that she was whining a little. A lot of people move when they don't feel they can afford high property taxes. (Just for the record, however, I believe strongly that there should be property tax freezes for senior citizens)
.I think I saw that video. I remember something very similar a few years back. Pretty heart wrenching.
Again, here in Calif we have Prop 13 which sets property taxes at a max increase of only 2% a year with the base being set a 1% of the purchase price. meaning that if you are a person has lived in your home for decades (or it was a family home and you inherited it and kept their property tax rate - something you can also do here) then your property taxes will likely be very low. Maybe only in the low hundreds/year irregardless of the market value of your house. And some counties let low income seniors defer their property taxes each year and then the county will re -coop that money (plus interest) from the persons estate when they die or when they sell their house. Makes Calif a very property tax friendly state. Well.... if the housing prices weren't so darn high. $500K for a crappy little 1950's house in a ghetto 'hood!
Blackdog Lin
12-6-13, 10:13pm
I am so lucky. (not belittling those here who are struggling with the new laws.) I truly feel blessed. Thirty-two years of putting up with that job.....so far has locked me into decent affordable health insurance.
gimmethesimplelife
12-8-13, 3:09am
I think that states that succumb to the lure of "Federal" money to expand services are taking a short-term approach, as most politicians do. Once these states have fully vested themselves, and the Federal redistribution gets turned off, as it probably will at some point down the road, they'll have one helluva time dealing with the reality since most states don't have the luxury of running budget deficits.I don't know how this is set up in Ohio, but here in Arizona Jan Brewer has put what she calls a "circut breaker" in Medicaid expansion. What this means is that if the promised Federal money gets cut off, cuts will be made to Medicaid automatically, with most likely childless adults such as myself getting cut from it first. So as the expansion stands in Arizona, if Federal money does not materialize for whatever reason, the state will not go bankrupt from Medicaid. I don't know though how Kasich handled the expansion in Ohio. Rob
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