View Full Version : Stuff made in China
Its really hard to find ANYTHING not made in China. I've always been a label-checker, and it seems like "made in China" refers to just about anything these days. Much more so than even a couple years ago.
Do you find it hard to buy much, without it coming from China?
How can we whine and moan about no jobs for people, when we seem to be entirely dependent on China for all our needs?
Its crazy. Sometimes I'm just a little relieved when I see "made in Japan".
We send our plastics over there, so they can make us stuff and send it back.
Now we're sending our chickens over there to be processed and sent back here.
Can't we make it harder on companies to NOT send jobs there, or is that against the law?? >8)
Another one of those catch 22's with freedom and capitalism, etc.
So many products (especially in the grocery store) are labelled as "packaged" or "distributed in the U.S." To me, that's saying it comes from somewhere else, but they're hoping all people will see is the "U.S." and think its made here.
Where would I start, if I wanted to write/make phone calls regarding the labelling of food? .....and other products too.
I'm appreciative that the U.S. DOES have lots of requirements about some of the labelling.....like nutrition, ingredients, etc. I just want to be sure I know where it comes from.
Boy, if it's not those darned Mexicans, it's the sneaky Chinese....
http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/266500_S/The-Jingoism-of-BioShock-Infinite.jpg
I also find it extremely difficult (almost impossible!) to find anything that was made in the USA and not made in China. I think the main reason for this is solely cost. We, as consumers, are unwilling to pay the high prices that we would have to if we had most things made in America. China can have a pretty low wage, unregulated work force that earns pennies on the dollar compared to a worker in the USA. We have to pay at least minimum wage - and often more if jobs are unionized - and things like over time pay, health insurance, disability, and other insurances, and all the other benefits full time workers are entitled to under US Labor Laws. Add to that the various employer taxes, regulatory costs, real estate and utility costs, etc... and that $4 tee shirt made in China would become the $25 tee shirt made in the USA. I don't have a solution other than encouraging people to buy USA made products even if it costs more to do so.
Ha! Your timing is spot on! I am dealing with getting replacement warranty parts for my leather sofa and loveseat - made by what I thought was an American manufacturer - shipped in from China. Mind you, I have been patiently waiting for almost three months! I did not think I would be facing hosting a Christmas gathering with these DISGUSTING couches! I bought them ON PURPOSE due to the name brand, again because I wrongly assumed they were an American company.
I used to think that it was just the latest eras that had this offshore products/labour issue until I read about the past centuries in which traders have been searching out cheap foreign sources for material and labour. Think of the East India Company, the whole imported slave trade for eons, the travel to explore new sources around the world since the days of Alexander the Great. It is just more of what has been going on forever.
In this period it is China; it was Japan. Where is it going to show up next?
North and South America have been the source of both raw resources and labour for European companies, kings and dictators and made the local Europeans grumble when their efforts were undercut in price and outsourced.
I think that it is the poor quality that may be the worst effect but I stand to be corrected on that as well.
I used to think that it was just the latest eras that had this offshore products/labour issue until I read about the past centuries in which traders have been searching out cheap foreign sources for material and labour. Think of the East India Company, the whole imported slave trade for eons, the travel to explore new sources around the world since the days of Alexander the Great. It is just more of what has been going on forever.
In this period it is China; it was Japan. Where is it going to show up next?
North and South America have been the source of both raw resources and labour for European companies, kings and dictators and made the local Europeans grumble when their efforts were undercut in price and outsourced.
I think that it is the poor quality that may be the worst effect but I stand to be corrected on that as well.Yep, the US was once Britain's "China". The east coast was nothing but a wood (massive deforestation of the New England woods) and coal-fuel driven manufacturing mecca of cheap labor (often child labor) to provide cheap exports to Europe. Before "off-shoring" that work to the states, Britain and much of Europe was under a cloud of industrialized manufacturing..as well as the same smog problems as they currently have in China. Remember all the dire circumstances of the under-class and working class in Dicken's novel? Most may have been true enough.
Sad Eyed Lady
12-11-13, 5:21pm
http://madeinusachallenge.com/made-in-america-master-list/
This might help - I haven't looked at it closely myself, but it's nice to see things all in one place without having to search for each item to see where it was made. I agree about the made in China stuff, after the recalls with pet food and treats that had caused many deaths, and even before that it was baby formula, then I don't want to risk it. If it is something that is going in my body or on my body, such as a lotion on my face, hands etc. I prefer either made in the USA or Canada.
ApatheticNoMore
12-11-13, 5:43pm
You will probably have better luck not buying made in China if you buy online. Like for instance I recently got a skillet and a pot .. made in France (well it's literally not made in China). The stores are probably all made in China for the same type of thing.
Can't we make it harder on companies to NOT send jobs there, or is that against the law??
It might be at this point depending on how the law was written. That type of thing is what is in trade laws (among other things). What people worry about with the TPP (one of the latest trade laws on the way to be passed) is that it will make it impossible to pass any laws that interfere with company profits in any way among other things. And yes it might make even labelling even country of orgin illegal.
I have bought jeans from the company's link below and all of their clothing is made in the USA. I even think they are union made. I paid $38.00 for pair of jeans I just bought. That is about the same price you would pay for ones made in China. They are well made and last a long time.
http://www.allusaclothing.com/default.asp
iris lilies
12-11-13, 9:42pm
Theoretically I don't mind where it is made. I mind that the cheap crap is the cheapest crap that is possible. Chinamen could make better quality stuff if we required it of them.
Tonight DH was talking to me about screen doors. Ho screen doors used to be made to open from either the left or the right. They came with stuff to install them. But now they are made so that the installer installs the ? frame? and base and top, and drills the holes to make it a left or right opening door. This cuts down on their production costs. But it's more work for the installer.
He said that the same model for a lighting fixture, for instance--the beginning of the fixture is made at one Chinese factory. The end of the run will be made at another factory and even though it is the same model--all of the parts are not interchangeable because the standards are crap.
You will probably have better luck not buying made in China if you buy online. Like for instance I recently got a skillet and a pot .. made in France (well it's literally not made in China). The stores are probably all made in China for the same type of thing.
It might be at this point depending on how the law was written. That type of thing is what is in trade laws (among other things). What people worry about with the TPP (one of the latest trade laws on the way to be passed) is that it will make it impossible to pass any laws that interfere with company profits in any way among other things. And yes it might make even labelling even country of orgin illegal.
I will have to go research that because country of origin labeling is something that customs brokers deal with. CBP has very specific regulations on how country of origin must be shown on products.
puglogic
12-11-13, 10:15pm
I'm fortunate to have a choice whether to buy Chinese-made or not, assuming there's an alternative at all. For many things, including most electronics and small appliances, it's darned tough to find. I feel lucky if I can find good socks and oranges.
And it has nothing to do with hating the "foreign hordes," thank you. Why would I pay to have an inferior product with (often) nonexistent customer support and terrible documentation shipped thousands of miles to me, belching greenhouse gases all the way? And if I have a choice between employing a neighbor to grow or build the products I consume, and employing someone in virtual slavery halfway around the globe to pave the way for investor dividends and obscene CEO bonuses...why on earth would I choose the latter?
Tradd, I would be interested in what you learn about the TPP.
SteveinMN
12-11-13, 10:55pm
I mind that the cheap crap is the cheapest crap that is possible. Chinamen could make better quality stuff if we required it of them.
He said that the same model for a lighting fixture, for instance--the beginning of the fixture is made at one Chinese factory. The end of the run will be made at another factory and even though it is the same model--all of the parts are not interchangeable because the standards are crap.
That is one of the things that bothers me most about this whole thing. The Chinese are capable of making some very high-quality goods. All of my recent Apple gear was made in China and I cannot see that it's built any less well than American- and Irish-built Apple products I've owned in the past. There's some truly fine audio gear coming out of China, too. Unfortunately, many companies outsourcing to China do not require (or audit for) a high level of quality, and "overengineering" does not seem to be as high a cultural value in China as it is in, say, Germany. So we pretty much get what we're asking for.
And it bothers me that all this low-cost labor isn't always lowering prices. I just bought a pair of American-made jeans from Round House for the same money I would pay for jeans at Target or Lands' End. Nikes are no cheaper than New Balances for being made in China rather than Massachusetts. So who really is benefiting from the move off-shore?
I forget where I heard this.........maybe DH heard it on NPR? But they were interviewing the head of a manufacturing plant in China, and he (the Chinese man) could not believe all the crap that the Americans would buy.
So I agree........they are very capable of making good stuff, but they are being told the kind of crap we like (from us), and they're making it.
I don't have a big problem buying something made overseas, but I really do not like buying things from China mostly for humanitarian reasons, but also because they tend to churn out a lot of low quality junk for cheap. I check a lot of labels, but it's about impossible to get away from. A couple of web sites like REI have filters to select products made in the US.
I do buy water chestnuts from China (have never seen them grown anywhere else), and recently I bought a Mason Bee House.......made entirely of bamboo....which would make sense coming from China. But so many other things could be "home-grown".
I do have to admit............I prefer China ruining their environment, rather than us.........but its a small world after all.......like the ripple in the pond.
pinkytoe
12-12-13, 11:26am
Unfortunately, many companies outsourcing to China do not require (or audit for) a high level of quality
I have noticed a sharp decline in clothing quality since even formerly good brands like Lands End or LL Bean now are made in China. Brands mean nothing anymore. It is endlessly aggravating to never have the same size standards even in the same style. I recently bought a duplicate sweater online because the first fit so well and was of decent quality. The second one had much longer arms and didn't fit the same. Different factory? One thing we rarely talk about too is how many of our resources are now going to China. Do we really think all of this oil and gas we are producing via fracking is staying here in the US?
The problem with country of origin is the fact that things don't just get entirely made in one country and shipped here. Even something as simple as the Planet Money t-shirts. For the men's shirts the cotton was grown in Mississippi, shipped to Indonesia where it was spun into thread, shipped to Bangledesh where the thread was woven into cloth and then sewn into shirts, then shipped back to the US. Something like a car, though, or other complex machine, likely has parts, or even whole systems (transmission, stereo, etc) made in several countries and then finally assembled somewhere. If the transmission was made in Mexico, the engine in Canada and the final car put together in Marysville Ohio is it really an American made Honda?
Ha. You guys buy the good stuff. I went shopping for some cheap t-shirts to wear around the house and the bottom of the price barrel were either from Bangladesh or Nicaragua. Not a $4.99 Chinese t-shirt in sight!
Less tongue-in-cheek, China has been farming out a lot of the textiles and the really cheap crap for years now. Bangladesh is riding the wave because where China has minimal regulatory enforcement, Bangladesh has none. Remember the stories of factory disasters this past year? Anyway, materials made there (or Malaysia or Indonesia or...) and then shipped to Central America for assembly is a popular route since NFTA doesn't always trace the food chain all the way to the source.
SteveinMN
12-12-13, 2:59pm
Something like a car, though, or other complex machine, likely has parts, or even whole systems (transmission, stereo, etc) made in several countries and then finally assembled somewhere. If the transmission was made in Mexico, the engine in Canada and the final car put together in Marysville Ohio is it really an American made Honda?
Courtesy of NAFTA, components/systems made in Mexico and Canada are treated differently than systems brought in from Japan, China, Poland, etc. But the measure most likely is "domestic content". So we have the Toyota Camry, which is built in Kentucky and Indiana has 80% domestic content; the Chevy Sonic, ballyhooed as an American-built subcompact (though it was designed in Korea), with 50% domestic content; and the Chevy Silverado 1500 pickup, which has all of 40% domestic content. Which vehicle puts more Americans to work? And given the multinational status of Toyota, GM, and most other car manufacturers, does it matter where the corporate profits go?
You should see the formulas that we have to use to calculate the country of origin on goods that are made up of components of mixed origin.
The general rule of thumb for many of the FTAs (Free Trade Agreements) is that the RVC (Regional Value Content) must be 35%.
There are literally 800+ pages at the beginning of the US Harmonized Tariff Schedule that deal with FTAs.
CathyA or anyone else interested in learning more about how the global economy works, I'd encourage you to check out the NPR Planet Money special series "PLanet MOney Makes a T-Shirt."
http://apps.npr.org/tshirt/#/title
It is a really entertaining and informative look at how goods get made and transported in the global economy. Tradd, there is one episode where they look at the tariff book! And explain why tshirts coming in from Bangladesh (their men's shirts) have to pay a 16.5% tariff while those from Columbia pay 0%. And if you ever wondered whether a pillow pet is a pillow or a toy, that episode will explain to you why it is very important to the manufacturer that it be considered a toy. Seriously, it is great stuff that also humanizes the people who make the things we buy -- they do in depth interviews with factory owners and workers in Columbia who are soon to lose one of their major clients (Jockey), and with young women in Bangladesh who are carving out a very different path than their rural parents, and with a cotton farmer in Alabama. Really great stuff.
The problem with country of origin is the fact that things don't just get entirely made in one country and shipped here. Even something as simple as the Planet Money t-shirts. For the men's shirts the cotton was grown in Mississippi, shipped to Indonesia where it was spun into thread, shipped to Bangledesh where the thread was woven into cloth and then sewn into shirts, then shipped back to the US. Something like a car, though, or other complex machine, likely has parts, or even whole systems (transmission, stereo, etc) made in several countries and then finally assembled somewhere. If the transmission was made in Mexico, the engine in Canada and the final car put together in Marysville Ohio is it really an American made Honda?
Oops -- you beat me to the Planet Money tshirt angle! I tried to post my message above yesterday, but my computer died before I had time. Yes, it is made in China but it is a 2006 Thinkpad that has been a real workhorse, so I can't complain too much. :)
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