View Full Version : Omnivores, Pescetarian, Vegan.......too much work! A whine........
I just can't keep this up. DH and I are carnivores/omnivores, DD is Vegan, DS is Vegetarian/Pescetarian......which means, unless DH and I want to eat as Vegan or Vegetarian/Pescetarians, I have to make at least 2 of things for holidays. I'm worn out! DD is too busy and lives 3 hours away and so can't make everything for herself and bring it. DS is easier to cook for, since he can eat eggs/dairy/cheese/seafood, but he never lets us know how long he'll be here for (so I can plan for meals).
I want to make them happy when they come home for holidays, but especially at christmas, it just makes me crazy. I can't make some side-dishes I want to, because DD can't eat them........so I compromise. I can't roast our traditional roast the way I want to in the oven, because the oven has to be a different temp for the Tofurky. I have to change the desert because it would have the wrong ingredients in it, etc., etc. And the work includes the various extended family get-togethers, (christmas eve, Thanksgiving, Easter), of which I have to make different versions of the same stuff.
I'm sure all of you will say "make her make her own stuff".......but what happens is that she leaves some stuff to the last minute to do at our house, and its very disruptive.
After christmas, I will tell DD that she has to bring more of her own stuff for the various holidays. On the other hand, I enjoy making them happy when they come home for holidays.............but its really wearing me out and putting me in a really bad mood. (Plus I try to do all the other christmas stuff myself for all the extended family members.)
I know its my own dang fault for doing more than a "simple living" person should be doing. Maybe I'll do better next year..........but this year has me in a really bad mood. :(
I want to make my family happy and have good memories.........but it might take years off my life. :~)
catherine
12-23-13, 9:28am
Cathy, I have the same situation--I'm "flexitarian"--used to be hard-core vegetarian, but have loosened up a bit--DD used to be vegan, but has loosened up a bit to hard-core vegetarian, and the men in the family are hard core meat-and-potatoes.
On holidays, I generally ask DD what she wants me to buy for her, but she's responsible for making it, unless I have time (which I usually don't). Plus, I try to make one side dish that has fairly substantial protein--like quinoa, which is perfect because it's protein, but you can also make it like a side dish. DD actually doesn't do soy meat substitutes like Tofurky because she's concerned about too much soy, so she finds real vegetarian alternatives, like bean dishes, etc.
For dessert, again, I'll make a pumpkin pie with milk, and DD and I will together make a vegan version (or we used to--now she's eating the traditional one). An alternative is to make traditional desserts for everyone, and simply put out a fruit salad for your vegan DD. That's what I would do.
It is a problem to satisfy everyone. Suddenly, everything must be gluten-free as well. Chinese food seems to be suitable for everyone as I have discovered so offer one or more dishes like that along with the traditional.
SteveinMN
12-23-13, 10:15am
When faced with entertainment situations like that, we tend to build from a vegan base and go on with additions.
For example, we would serve pasta and salad; the pasta would be offered "bare", with a marinara sauce and a sauce with meat on the side; guests choose the one they want. The bacon bits and cheese and dressings stay outside the salad for others to add as they wish.
Chili, pizzas, tacos/tostadas, and stir-fries also allow the option to not have to create two entirely-separate meals. It may not be traditional, but, well ... what is anymore? :~)
iris lilies
12-23-13, 11:24am
Why can't you be vegetarians for a few days? I'd build meals around vegan & vegetarian options and, I guess, have one simple hunk of meat on the side for those who must add it in. A pre-cooked ham is easy. Forget about your "traditional" meal because your family isn't that traditional family any more.
Think about moving from your norm of roast for this holiday because you and your DH can always have that, alone when the children are not there.
Thanks for your inputs, everyone.
Fortunately, we all eat the same veggies, of which we eat alot of.
Its a little touchy to give into everything. DD is inflexible, and instead of us "giving in" to her all the time, I'm trying to get her to make alot of her own stuff and bring it with her. I'm trying to teach her not to expect everything to be done for her, and help out more. When she comes home, she's tired and she isn't as helpful as she could be.
DS is much more agreeable and flexible and helpful.
I'm a good cook and take pride in that. I'm known for certain dishes at the extended family get-togethers. If I make them vegan, they don't taste the same.......so I end up making 2 versions. Then DD gets upset because I want to label them. She wants people to think things are good, even if they are vegan....and I guess tell them later, if they compliment on it. But........I also want people to think they're getting the same delicious stuff they've gotten for years, and look forward to it. (whether its good for their health or not...........) I'm now making the spinach dip with vegan sour cream and vegan mayo. Its okay........but not the same as the "real" stuff. I make a crab dip, and also an un-crab dip. For christmas dinner, I have to buy different rolls/butter and make anything we all eat with replacement butter/sour/cream/dairy/cheese/honey, etc., etc.
And there's no way I'm eating Tofurky. :) I don't do well with grains and alot of carbs.
Yeah......its hard giving up traditions.....especially when some of us still enjoy them.
I used to try to also make gluten-free stuff for someone in the extended family get-togethers, but I discovered she doesn't trust other peoples' cooking, so I quit that. Then her daughter has a peanut allergy..............
I do enjoy cooking and making my family happy. I guess I'm just frazzled and tired. And sometimes I just feel like a servant. Too bad christmas takes another year to get here. If it were in just a couple months, my resolve would probably be fresher and much stronger!
Your suggestions about having what DH and I want when the kids are gone is a decent one.
I'm not sure I could pasta or pizza for our christmas dinner though. ;)
catherine.......yeah, sounds like we have a similar family. "Flexitarian"........haha.......I like that term!
DD is flexible when her friends make things that have un-vegan things in them (not meat though), but when she comes home, she's rigid. :(
I really need to work on solutions though, 'cause I'm not a happy camper at holidays.....and I don't want to be remembered as a wife/mother who made what everyone wanted,
but was pissed about it. :~)
I have similar dilemmas for my family Holiday meals. What is usually done is all of the salads and side dishes are meatless, which is usually no big deal. Then the main dish is often a meat version and a meatless version of the same thing. Like lasagna or spaghetti or even turkey and tofurkey. Usually the vegetarians can get a good full meal without even delving into the main dish.
I can see where it might get to be an ordeal if it becomes routine, but for the few holidays and other special occasions it seems like most everyone is happy with the arrangement. I can pretty much go both ways and appreciate a good vegetarian main dish almost more than a good hunk of meat, but sort of understand wanting the great bird or other meat for holidays out of tradition.
I have attended meals where someone or people are gluten free in addition to the mix of carnivores, vegetarians and vegans. That definitely adds another level of complexity to things.
I'd never put up with this disruption on holidays. Make whatever you want and the ones who won't eat this or that will soon learn they have to fend for themselves.
I understand that you want to make them happy. But there comes a time when you can't do it and they have to understand. In my family, I did big Christmases for 45 years with lots of cooking and baking. This year I have severe back problems and can't do a quarter of what I did in the past. I felt bad but guess what? They get it!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
I'd never put up with this disruption on holidays. Make whatever you want and the ones who won't eat this or that will soon learn they have to fend for themselves.
I understand that you want to make them happy. But there comes a time when you can't do it and they have to understand. In my family, I did big Christmases for 45 years with lots of cooking and baking. This year I have severe back problems and can't do a quarter of what I did in the past. I felt bad but guess what? They get it!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
JaneV2.0
12-23-13, 12:49pm
I've been on both sides of this (but when I was the PITA, I tried to be as flexible as possible, and would have gone without eating rather than cause excess work for the cook). Once I gave a party that included vegans, vegetarians, omnivores, and recovering alcoholics. I labeled the fruitcakes for alcohol, and the soup for ingredients. I think labeling makes perfect sense. Tell your daughter she can be rigid in her own house; you have enough stress just making dinner. She clearly can be flexible when she wants to be. You might want to print this out and post it prominently: https://s-media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/58/37/a0/5837a01ae7f909ce5a780561a5294f3d.jpg
Miss Cellane
12-23-13, 1:05pm
All the suggestions for going completely vegan or cooking non-traditional dishes are fine. But what about Cathy and her husband? What if they really want a turkey or beef roast?
Cathy, from what I'm reading, you are compromising too much for your daughter. She's the one who is not flexible. Well, she's an adult. Time to let her experience the results of her inflexiblity. She does not get to dictate what the rest of the family eats. As long as there is food she can eat at every meal, you've done your duty.
One suggestion would be to alternate cooking the roast your way and cooking the Tofurky. So, one holiday you get the roast the way you want it. The next, DD gets the Tofurky.
Or, and this is the way I'd go--work out a menu that works for you and DH and also for DD and DS--but not completely for DD. So, you cook the roast the way you want. You make certain side dishes that are favorites of DD vegan, but the rest you make the way you want. At least a month before the holiday, give the menu to DD. Tell her that if she wants anything else, it's on her.
You can volunteer to buy the ingredients for her, if you want, so they are in the house when she gets home. Inform her of the times you will be cooking, and let her know the kitchen is hers the rest of the time. Let her know what temp the oven will be at on the actual day, so she can arrange her cooking around yours. If she is too tired to make her special dishes, then she doesn't get them. You will still have provided enough food for her to eat.
You are not a bad mother for not making all her favorite dishes. Make some, the ones you have the energy and patience for. I'd also just flat tell her that certain meals on her--she does the shopping and cooking, and you get to relax. Even though my entire family are carnivores, my mother started doing this over the holidays as we got older. She did enough work with the big meals on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. The kids were expected to do their share on the other days.
As for the extended family gatherings, I'd make one (1) vegan dish for DD (let her pick which one) and make the rest the way you want. If DD wants to make and bring something else, fine. You should not have to make two versions of every dish.
DD is acting like a spoiled toddler. Don't encourage her. If she is going to be that rigid when at your house, she needs to provide her own food.
If one doesn't want to practice comprehensive hospitality (i.e., accommodating your guests rather than simply letting them attend your holiday dinner) then a pot-luck is a decent alternative.
In that situation, I would make my traditional roast/ham, ie whatever hunk o'meat and enough tasty non meat sides to fill up the attending veg heads. If DD insisted on a vegan entree like tofurkey than I would ask her to bring/cook it. All of this personal choice stuff is crazy-making - even at work now - food has to be ordered to accommodate everyone.
I would strive to accommodate people with medical needs first, and others as time/energy permits. People who, for various reasons, are picky eaters (and this would include me) need to plan ahead and bring their own food, if necessary. It borders on narcissism to expect otherwise.
I suppose one might ask, rhetorically, what would be your expectations regarding a meat dish if the tables were turned, and you went to your daughters house for a holiday dinner?
It borders on narcissism to expect otherwise.
That's ridiculous, Jane. It is fair to disrespect your guests' beliefs and values as it affects the food they eat, whether that's kosher, halal, veg*an, or whatever, but please understand that it is disrespect. Eating meat is not an ideological imperative of meat-eaters (I've seen many-a-meat-eater enjoy an eggplant parm), so I think that that confuses meat-eaters into thinking that ethical eating is something legitimate to marginalize. One doesn't have to respect everything so much that they take so much extra work and expense on themselves, but again, it is still disrespect to invite someone for a meal not intending to respect the dietary rules they abide by.
bUU.........I'm not disrespecting DD if I don't make the Vegan selection to everything she's used to having in an omnivore world. I have bent over backwards to accommodate her. She always loved pumpkin bread on christmas morning, so I made the stuff that DH, DS and I like and also the vegan version. I also made the beet salad dressing without the honey, and I've made a vegan version of almost everything else she likes or has requested. I've substituted butter, sour cream, cream cheese, honey, and lots of other stuff. I read labels all the time to avoid her having to eat something she doesn't want to it. I would just like her to bring more of her favorite vegan dishes with her, instead of expecting me to cook both types of meals. And I do understand what Jane is saying.....and agree mostly with it. Maybe I wouldn't say narcissism.......maybe just self-centered. (Is there a big diff?).
Rogar........I would not expect any meat if she hosted the christmas dinner. I wouldn't even expect dairy or honey or anything else she finds offensive.
She works very hard trying to earn enough money to live on. But unfortunately, she uses that as an excuse to not have time to bring much of anything. I want her to learn to help out more. I suppose I'm not doing that, if I constantly make all this myself. I need to work on figuring out how to do it kindly......since she gets mad easily. :(
She's very tolerant of other people, but when it comes to her mom..........
if the tables were turned
this is a good reminder of how to approach all "situations" where a decision must be made. Imagine the opposite.
I would be tinkled pink if someone else did all this work........and I wouldn't complain about the food or have any expectations.........as long as there was lots of it. hahaha
When I was younger, I took lots of stuff to my mother's holiday meals. She didn't have to ask me. And I didn't require any special foods. Its just a nice thing to do.
I was a vegetarian for about six years (for "ethical" reasons) until I realized I hadn't saved a single animal. Mostly I was amused at how even my family and friends seemed blithely clueless that I was one, I guess because, although I told them, I didn't shove it in their faces. Like the majority of people who choose veganism or vegetarianism, I resumed eating meat eventually. I never thought I was some kind of special snowflake, and I never expected anyone to go out of their way for me. I'm pretty sure most people don't maintain separate sets of dishes for their friends who keep kosher, but I could be wrong. Right now, I'm experimenting with eliminating various foods for health reasons, but I don't expect the world to stop spinning to accommodate me. Cathy, I think you've gone above and beyond, frankly.
catherine
12-23-13, 3:18pm
That's ridiculous, Jane. It is fair to disrespect your guests' beliefs and values as it affects the food they eat, whether that's kosher, halal, veg*an, or whatever, but please understand that it is disrespect. Eating meat is not an ideological imperative of meat-eaters (I've seen many-a-meat-eater enjoy an eggplant parm), so I think that that confuses meat-eaters into thinking that ethical eating is something legitimate to marginalize. One doesn't have to respect everything so much that they take so much extra work and expense on themselves, but again, it is still disrespect to invite someone for a meal not intending to respect the dietary rules they abide by.
If it were hosting a dinner party, yes, I would accommodate my guests' unique tastes/preferences to the best of my ability. But as a family, none of us expect to be waited on hand and foot. My DD is very happy for any accommodation I can provide, and she is far from offended if I don't have time to jump through hoops just for her. In fact, as I mentioned, we often work together in the kitchen, as a mother/daughter experience.
As for shifting the tradition just for the minority vegetarian/vegans--as a quasi-vegetarian myself, I think majority rules. It's easier to simply an small extra dish will satisfy DD than it is to explain to my meat-loving family members why have to go without. And it makes more sense, IMO.
bUU.........I'm not disrespecting DD if I don't make the Vegan selection to everything she's used to having in an omnivore world.Who said anything about an analog to "everything"?
Maybe I wouldn't say narcissism.......maybe just self-centered. (Is there a big diff?).I guess we'd have to sit down and get DD's perspective first-hand to know.
She's very tolerant of other people, but when it comes to her mom..........So maybe it's just a matter of parent-child rather than having anything to do with veganism.
Miss Cellane
12-23-13, 4:17pm
So maybe it's just a matter of parent-child rather than having anything to do with veganism.
I do get the impression that her days at the parental house over the holidays are sort of a vacation for the daughter, and she feels that she doesn't have to contribute to the normal work of the household. So she expects her mother to prepare vegan meals for her that include all the dishes the rest of the family is eating, plus a version just for DD.
Self-centered, clueless and childish. Which many of us were in our 20s, but we mostly grow out of it. Maybe it's time to help DD grow a bit.
Gardenarian
12-23-13, 4:30pm
I don't like big sit-down dinners. I just go buffet style and people can choose what they like, making sure thing are labelled. I use popsicle sticks - vegan, vegetarian NOT vegan, pescetarian, carnivore. Sounds like a lot of work, but it's not - write on the sticks with Sharpies and you can use them over and over again. Handy for pot lucks too, tho' more and more pot lucks are asking for full ingredients lists.
If your dd gets in snit about not being able to eat something - eh, it's a good learning experience for her. It's pretty obvious you love her like crazy, and that's what counts.
I hope you have a very merry Christmas!
Yes, she does see coming home as a vacation. And I see the holidays being over as a vacation. haha
Yes, I love her like crazy. She always says "mom.......don't worry about things".......but if I didn't.......she would have very little to eat.
Maybe its her age, and she doesn't yet know the responsibility of providing food for people......and how much work it can be.
We love (the 4 of us) sitting down to eat together. We talk alot and have a good time.
Maybe I'm just tired. I had my kids when I was older, and I'm just plain tired.
I do plan on doing things different from now own. DD and I will talk about it after christmas.
I do have little signs "Vegan" that I like to put in the stuff we take to the extended family get-togethers. But DD doesn't like that. I guess I need to express my feelings more to her. Maybe I'll say "If I'm the one who made it, then I can put the signs on it." :) I've always tried to be very fair with my kids.........and let them give their opinions..........but I think its now biting me in the butt. hahaha
I just got home from the Tractor Supply (my stocktank de-icer quit working), and a sheriff's deputy came to tell me someone dumped a bunch of trash on our back property.............I realized how much I don't like the holidays. I really feel like scrooge this year. I made either candy or granola for all the extended family and various things for other people; I looked up and scanned and printed about 40 pics for my SIL. Then I decorated the house. DH is helping me clean the house. The dog is acting up and we took her to the vet 2 times in the past week. I'm just tired, and have fantasies of being in a cabin all by myself in the forest for the next holiday.
Sorry........I just needed to vent.
Gardenarian
12-23-13, 4:58pm
(((((CathyA)))))) The holidays will be over soon.
Peace.
Teacher Terry
12-23-13, 7:54pm
My son was vegan for about 8 years so every xmas I made spaghetti & took his sauce out before I added the meat. For thanksgiving I bought a free range turkey and made the normal side dishes. He could just eat the side dishes or sometimes he ate the turkey since it was free range. That was the extent of my willingness to compromise. There was no way I was going to make a bunch of meals. All the guests understood if you were coming that is what you were getting & it never affected the turnout. I am a very picky eater and do not expect people to accommodate me. If I am going to someone's home if I know I will not like the meal I eat before I go and kinda push a little food around my plate. If it is a good friend I bring something for myself. However, once kids are used to things a certain way I know it is hard to change but I would work on it. Otherwise you will just be exhausted & resentful every xmas.
I accommodate - so this year it's lasagna made with chicken italian sausage (I don't eat red meat), paleo chicken piccata (DD is currently paleo), and I'm attempting a paleo pumpkin pie. The rest of the meal is "normal". In terms of effort the only one that is really a bit more work is the pie, since I usually just do a premade crust. DD has fewer meal choices, but she understands that and appreciates I have modified a couple of things just for her. And anyone else wanting the chicken or pumpkin pie will just have to put up with it being a bit different.
Forgot to add my mom has issues with seeds so that alters holiday menus (put back the blueberry pie today and got an apple pie instead), as well as DD having some food triggered migraine issues.
LOL!...........everyone should just bring their own food!
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