Chicken processing in China

[Rosemary]

This was in the news (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/09/05/219377718/was-your-chicken-nugget-made-in-china-itll-soon-be-hard-to-know) a few months ago:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/audit-gives-china-green-light-to-process-us-chicken-96091.html

Bettina Elias Siegal, Nancy Huehnergarth, and Barbara Kowalcyk have created a petition (https://www.change.org/petitions/congress-keep-chinese-chicken-out-of-our-schools-and-supermarkets)requesting the USDA not allow this in our stores or schools:

"we urge Congress, President Obama, and his administration to stop chicken from, or processed in, China from reaching our supermarkets and the meals we feed our school children by:

(1) Ensuring that Chinese-processed chicken is not included in the National School Lunch Program, School Breakfast Program, Child and Adult Care Food Program and Summer Food Service Program; and

(2) Preventing funds from being used to implement any rule that would allow poultry raised or slaughtered in China to be exported to the United States.

Fourteen members of Congress have already publicly supported these goals in an open letter to the Agricultural Appropriations Committee."

[SteveinMN]

And your comment/viewpoint on this is ... ??

Based on the amount of frozen fish I see in retail stores which has been farmed/caught/processed in China, I will hazard a guess that (what little) fish schoolchildren eat already comes -- in part -- from China.

So the question is, if it's okay for fish, is it not okay for poultry? Should we stop allowing the import of fish from Chinese processors, too?

Mind you, I avoid food processed in China whenever I can. After scandals involving baby formula, milk, pet food, tires, cars, and myriad other products, I think quality control there is given little more than a wink and a nod by most. But before we run off on this particular issue, maybe we should examine what's already happening and just what we hope to gain by stopping the importation.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Hmm, I never heard of processed fish from China. I thought it was mostly coming from yea Alaska sometimes but also a lot from South America. I guess I haven't religiously checked but it's often labeled (although I'm a bit wary of anywhere near Japan at this point - since yea we're all probably being irradiated). I checked and this tuna I'm eating says processed in Ecuador.

[Rosemary]

Steve's right, most frozen/packaged fish comes from China. Even the "Wild US-Caught Salmon" might be a "Product of China" - shipped there for packaging, then shipped back, if you can believe it!

I don't eat any food processed in another country. I do eat some things grown in other countries - bananas, pineapple, coconut are what come to mind. I don't buy produce that is coming from another country just because it's out of season here (e.g. grapes or berries from South America).

So my personal opinion is that I would not buy any chicken processed in China -- the problem is, as usual with the USDA, that they are not requiring stringent labels. I was providing the links because I thought people here would be interested in knowing about this rather new development in food safety.

[Gardenarian]

I would really support better labeling of where food comes from. A lot of stuff from from Trader Joe's just has the name and address of their company, no indication of where it was grown.

[CathyA]

Supposedly, if it doesn't say a foreign country, its from the U.S. But I sure don't believe that!
I would love there to be law that all food must be labeled as to where it is grown/processed/packaged........but you know that's not going to happen. People would quit buying foreign stuff and it would upset the balance in terms of economic trade, being free to have your business anywhere, etc.
I wonder.........do you think enough people care enough about where their food comes from that it would make a difference? I wonder if most people don't give a rip where it comes from, as long as its cheap. :(

[Sad Eyed Lady]

I've noticed many canned or packaged foods sometimes say "Distributed by so & so in somewhere KS' etc. That raises a red flag to me. They tell me where it was DISTRIBUTED FROM - not where it was grown, made, canned or whatever, so it seems to indicate that fact is being hidden.

[CathyA]

I agree. There's so many things in the grocery store, where the label says "Distributed by...." It's like we're not supposed to read between the lines.

I discovered awhile back that some jarred mushrooms were from Asia somewhere. I threw them out. Today I was at the store and checked the jarred mushrooms again, and they were either from China or The Netherlands!
Like I've said.....I don't think its a matter of the U.S. not being able to grow some of these things........its either some trade agreement, or cheap labor. I don't think its very healthy for a nation to do so much of that.........and its definitely not healthy for us individually.

[lhamo]

I would be a lot more sympathetic to this legislation if it were for ecological/environmental/public health reasons, but food policy in the US is so extremely F*ed up that I doubt that is all that is going on here.

For the record, my family has been eating copious amounts of Chinese chicken for over a decade now (been living in China since 2002), and we're all perfectly fine. It was the grass-fed, local, organic (but undercooked) yak sausage that put me in the hospital last time (and that was about 7 years ago).

I'm not denying that there are issues with quality control in the Chinese food supply chain, as well as in other industries, but I do get a bit tired of the "China is evil avoid everything from China" tone that seems to come up regularly on this forum. It really feels a bit like some of our members think that people in China aren't actually people trying to earn a living and improve their lives, but rather some kind of evil, environment-destroying, economy-threatening robots. It's a bit more complicated than US= good, China=bad, in my opinion....

[ApatheticNoMore]

It really feels a bit like some of our members think that people in China aren't actually people trying to earn a living and improve their lives, but rather some kind of evil, environment-destroying, economy-threatening robots.

it's never about the people, it's about governments and corporate agendas. Since the Chinese government isn't even *nominally* democratic we really can't blame the people that much for it's lax regulations or environmental policy (but we can protect ourselves), nor it's lax worker protections etc.. All of the major powers are very poor stewards of the world (not to mention their human rights records): the U.S., China, Russia. Evil and environment-destroying? Yea pretty much.

[Rosemary]

ApatheticNoMore said it well. It's not the people. I avoid most imported foods because of environmental reasons - shipping something like fish or chicken that needs to be kept cold across the ocean twice simply makes no sense to me - as well as in the interest of maintaining jobs in the U.S. And I feel that food regulations are already too lax in the U.S., all around - pesticides, GMOs and labeling, soil treatments, inspections, etc.

[CathyA]

lhamo...........please don't think I am ever saying that the Chinese people are lazy or unable to make a good product! As ApatheticNoMore and Rosemary have said, it isn't about the Chinese people at all.............its about governments/food regulations/laws about pesticides, time spent in transit, etc.
When I complain about products coming from China.........I'm complaining about what the U.S. has done to make almost everything we use, come from China. It's our own fault!
I'm sorry if you were offended. I especially don't like buying food from far away with different food safety rules..........so many issues involved with that.

[IshbelRobertson]

I have only bought organic and locally raised meat for over 25 years.

Here's the website for labelling regs in the UK
http://food.gov.uk/business-industry/guidancenotes/labelregsguidance/#.UtVDHn8gGSM

[pinkytoe]

Seems incredibly wasteful all the way around to transport meat/fish products back and forth. No doubt there are complicated trade policies involved of which we no little.

[SteveinMN]

I wonder.........do you think enough people care enough about where their food comes from that it would make a difference? I wonder if most people don't give a rip where it comes from, as long as its cheap. :(
I think your second sentence there hits it on the head. Most people just. don't. care. From nearby, from a long way away, GMO, CAFO, organic, free-range; it does not matter. Oh, you'll get a rise out of people when something like "pink slime" hits the headlines. But it's a bump in the road for most. The U.S. spends the smallest percentage of its income (http://wsm.wsu.edu/researcher/WSMaug11_billions.pdf) on food than any other developed country. It's not like Americans are starving, either, because we manage to waste about half (http://www.toledoblade.com/JanetRomaker/2014/01/14/Wasted-food-is-wasted-opportunity.html) of the food we buy. Apparently we're fine with it that way. So I don't think labeling country of origin is going to slow people much. Not if the alternative is paying farmers and farm workers a living wage through the prices of what they raise.

lhamo, I also meant no offense in my statements on Chinese products. There are some excellent Chinese-made products. My iPhone, for example, would not be made any better anywhere else in the world.

I do take issue with the government's blind-ish eye toward environmental and safety regulations as well as their lack of interest in defending intellectual-property laws. I'm not sure if it's the government's uncaring attitude that causes the corner-cutting seen in some of these scandals. It is not encouraging to me to think that people will cut milk with melamine or not design a safe vehicle because they think the government does not care. That's not entirely China's issue here, though (cf. occasional recalls of millions of pounds of American ground beef). Perhaps it's the sheer volume of product coming out of China that aggregates the bad news. China's great success and very visible faults make it a big target. I'm leery of that (perceived) mindset. And that only being a good actor and time will erase.

[TMC]

I think your second sentence there hits it on the head. Most people just. don't. care. From nearby, from a long way away, GMO, CAFO, organic, free-range; it does not matter. Oh, you'll get a rise out of people when something like "pink slime" hits the headlines. But it's a bump in the road for most. The U.S. spends the smallest percentage of its income (http://wsm.wsu.edu/researcher/WSMaug11_billions.pdf) on food than any other developed country. It's not like Americans are starving, either, because we manage to waste about half (http://www.toledoblade.com/JanetRomaker/2014/01/14/Wasted-food-is-wasted-opportunity.html) of the food we buy. Apparently we're fine with it that way. So I don't think labeling country of origin is going to slow people much. Not if the alternative is paying farmers and farm workers a living wage through the prices of what they raise.

lhamo, I also meant no offense in my statements on Chinese products. There are some excellent Chinese-made products. My iPhone, for example, would not be made any better anywhere else in the world.

I do take issue with the government's blind-ish eye toward environmental and safety regulations as well as their lack of interest in defending intellectual-property laws. I'm not sure if it's the government's uncaring attitude that causes the corner-cutting seen in some of these scandals. It is not encouraging to me to think that people will cut milk with melamine or not design a safe vehicle because they think the government does not care. That's not entirely China's issue here, though (cf. occasional recalls of millions of pounds of American ground beef). Perhaps it's the sheer volume of product coming out of China that aggregates the bad news. China's great success and very visible faults make it a big target. I'm leery of that (perceived) mindset. And that only being a good actor and time will erase.

Your comment about the amount of money Americans spend on food is something I have been thinking about lately. DH asked if we could limit our food budget to $400 a month. I laughed out loud. We are doing that for a few months while we eat down the freezer and pantry, but once it's empty I'll have to go back to spending more than that. I used to stress over the USDA recommended "thrifty" amount, but I really don't pay attention anymore.

Our personal choice is to spend more on food, fresh, local and organic when possible. It's just our opinion that healthy food is cheaper than heart disease later on.

I also avoid foods from China, however I also try to avoid feed lot beef and processed foods in general.

Also I have realized that I have to get DH to do more of the grocery shopping because he clearly has no idea what things cost.

[The Storyteller]

All factory farm chicken is bad. It is inhumane, unhealthy, bad for the environment, and tastes like crap. Where it comes from is irrelevant to me, except for degree.

[new2oregon]

When Talking about food and where it comes from etc. The one thing you can control is if you are really worried about it is to grow your own or buy from a local farmer. Some people wont eat food unless it comes from a store. I had chickens and some people I worked with thought it was weird to eat eggs out of a coop like as if they were dirty or something.

[lhamo]

Thanks for the clarifications, everybody. Sorry to freak out a on you all, but having spent nearly 20 years of my life in China trying to support and encourage people here (and people overseas who care about them) who are working for sustainable, positive change I see things a little differently than how they are typically presented in the US media.

I totally understand the reasons for wanting to reduce your carbon footprint and buy things from nearby sources. Has me thinking my next career should be something like starting an avocado farm/coffee plantation/winery/high end cheese production facility somewhere in China -- can you do all those things in one place? Hmmmmm....

[CathyA]

That's okay lhamo.........I totally understood your reaction, and I'm sorry if it came across as putting down China or Chinese workers.
Good luck on the dream of having your avocado/coffee/winery/cheese thing! :)

[pinkytoe]

buy from a local farmer
That is a rare thing as it costs $10-15 or more for a whole chicken. Not affordable for most people.

[SteveinMN]

buy from a local farmer
... a local farmer who is raising animals humanely. Minnesota is one of the largest producers of turkey in the U.S., most of which come from conglomerates like Hormel (Jennie-O). Hormel, too, encourages CAFO production, though most of that apparently takes place outside of this state. There are very few Nieman Ranches out there. Interested consumers need to look for the smaller producers.

[TMC]

But it's true that people are freaked out when you grow your own too. My parents used to live right next door and never wanted any of my organic, free range home raised eggs or chickens. They never explained why, just politely said no thank you and kept buying them at the store.

In the meantime we were able to sell all the extra eggs we had for $3.00 a dozen and people beg us to raise extra chickens for them.

[CathyA]

Isn't that odd? It shows the disconnect that people have with what they buy in the grocery store. If they only knew what those eggs and chickens from the store probably go through and are exposed to!