View Full Version : What is American Culture Really?
My daughter will be going to Germany in May, and we're hosting a German student in our home next month. It's part of a cultural exchange program to promote understanding, and so on.
That brings up a question that has plagued me for a long time. Do we really have an "American" culture. Growing up in South Carolina, I always felt culturally destitute. It didn't seem to me that we had any rituals or cultural background that made me feel as if I belonged to a certain group or a certain culture. It's hard to explain. I guess it's like the way you see photographs in the National Geographic of some tribal group, and the members of the group are easily identifiable as a part of a coherent culture.
I feel like I grew up with a set of caricatures -- rednecks, fundamentalists, hippies, yuppies, NASCAR fans, etc. My mom bought Wonder Bread, frozen dinners, cartons of ice cream, boxes of cereal. It felt like I was living in the absence of culture. When I read things like the Parade Magazine's "Six easy to make treats for the big game day", it feels like the same sort of shallow caricature. I've never watched the Super Bowl. I don't even know what season it's held in, but when I try to think of American culture, I think of such caricatures as overweight adult men sitting on a couch eating unhealthy food screaming a television. I know that's not really culture. It's something else.
Is my personal culture, the culture of our family, American culture? How are we going to appear to a German student as representative of America. The things I like the most about ourselves may be the things we have that are a little different. My son bicycles to school - which I think of as very American since I did that too - though few others at his school do. My daughter trudges off to meet her bus, (one mile through ankle deep snow she will someday tell her kids. She goes to a charter school, so she has to walk farther to catch the bus). My wife bikes up to work in the dark, and I follow on my bicycle an hour later. I like the rhythm of fermenting food - sauerkraut, kim chi, kefir. Occasionally, I'll make some homemade tempeh in our homemade incubator. I work part time so I can take care of the kids. I take care of all the honeybees and the chickens. I love our kitchen based worm compost bin. I thought we were fairly unique in keeping our earthworms inside, but I've discovered, through talking to friends, that more people compost with worms in their kitchen than I would imagine. Bicycles, earthworms, and fermented foods say "culture" to me at home, but there are things like eating fermented vegetables with our eggs at breakfast that aren't really cultural, they're just something we started doing at some point.
I have not traveled extensively, so I don't know how those things make us "American" rather than Danish, or German, or Malaysian. When we did travel through India, the main difference I saw was that the Indian people seemed not to care about trashing their landscape. Trash was everywhere. Why didn't they pick up after themselves? And the men in India were not ashamed to ogle women. It made my wife very uncomfortable. I thought it was a very strange thing for a country I always thought of as a spiritual country. Everything, spiritual and carnal, seemed more on the surface in India. I think there must be more shame embedded in American culture.
When I try to pick out a thread of American Culture that I belong to, I think of Emerson, Thoreau, Walt Whitman, John Muir, Edward Abbey, Phillip Whalen. Why is it that caricatures spring to mind when the question of culture comes up - hot dogs, hamburgers, baseball, pickup trucks - when I never participated in those things?
I feel like I'm just rambling. Do you see a question here? What is "American" about our family - or any simple living family - given that the cartooning of America as a Walmart shopping, pickup driving, television watching group seems to dominate even if such things are probably far less common than we think? Even now, nearing fifty, I feel no nearer to really belonging to a culture, unless it is the simple living culture, and it's clear as well, that all of us here on the boards are very different. We make it up as we go along, and maybe that alone is an American characteristic.
gimmethesimplelife
1-17-14, 10:52am
Interesting question! I've heard it said before that you are always free to reinvent yourself in the United States and as much as I am down about this country I do believe to some degree there is some truth to this - especially since there is no real culture or binding set of behaviors that most follow. I speak a lot of Mexico - there you have food that is characteristically Mexican, "artesinia" in the markets that one would classify as Mexican, music that one would associate with Mexico, and in the past, conservative attitudes that most held that one would associate with Mexico - though that last one is changing, with same sex marriage legal in Mexico City and in one Mexican state. To some degree, there is an identity if you will that one would associate with Mexico and maybe others will not agree with me but I don't see that in the United States. Rob
SteveinMN
1-17-14, 11:13am
What is "American" about our family - or any simple living family - given that the cartooning of America as a Walmart shopping, pickup driving, television watching group seems to dominate even if such things are probably far less common than we think? Even now, nearing fifty, I feel no nearer to really belonging to a culture, unless it is the simple living culture, and it's clear as well, that all of us here on the boards are very different. We make it up as we go along, and maybe that alone is an American characteristic.
Big question, Paul.
First, congratulations for attempting to avoid the stereotypes. Every culture has them. In the U.S., I think many people have developed stereotypical views of Germans (full disclosure: my ancestry is half-German). No culture is composed of people 100% in lock step on every practice and belief.
That said, I think there are certain things which identify with Americans way more than with residents of other countries:
- Regardless of ancestry and the presence of Hyphenated-Americans, America is a country where people tend to be Americans first and Hyphenated-Americans (or Catholics or Deaf or some other "tribe") second. I don't believe we'll ever see in the U.S. the kinds of intertribal violence we see in, for example, some African/Middle Eastern countries.
- Americans believe very strongly in individual freedoms. This can be good (Horatio Alger, Bill Gates/Steve Jobs; the institutionalization of anti-discrimination) and bad (the myth of the bootstrap; it's very difficult for us to agree on what is the common good).
- As a rule, Americans have had the luxuries of cheap resources and cheap goods. We tend to drive bigger cars (and more non-commercial trucks) than the rest of the world. We tend to live in bigger apartments and homes. Energy is cheaper here than in most places. We tend to mine our own resources, going abroad when supply and economics push us to do so, but knowing that we're not on the hook for everything brought into the country, as, say, Japan is.
- Americans have had a strong stable currency for generations.
- Americans have enjoyed the luxury of English being a universal language, and, as a result, many Americans don't speak any other language, while it is not uncommon for educated people in other countries to speak their native or local language (or both) and some English.
- America is big enough to resist successfully worldwide standards like the metric system, "real" football (soccer), and chip-based credit cards. Even if that resistance is not always a good idea.
- IMHO, America's greatest export product has been the idea. Life-altering inventions like airplanes, the semiconductor, nuclear weapons, and assembly-line manufacturing all came from the U.S. Even today, some of America's greatest influence is seen in ideas: the success of fast-food restaurants, the American entertainment industry, fashion.
Not every American is fully on board with these things; on this board alone we tend to be out of mainstream American consumer culture and differ on several of the other points. But I believe most of these points are by far the exception rather than the rule, and are illustrative to anyone from outside the U.S. of how America is unlike other places.
What a thought provoking question! I think American culture excels at freedom of choice (if you take that route) and perhaps innovation of ideas. The American first part seems to be not quite as strong as when I grew up and it seemed like everyone was white, middle class, apple pie, girl next door and all of that. Many ethnicities take several generations to assimilate so they maintain their cultural identity first but they certainly appreciate American liberties or they would not be here. Now it seems like to me that popular culture (music, media, tech, celebrity etc) is the over-riding driver of our culture.
- Regardless of ancestry and the presence of Hyphenated-Americans, America is a country where people tend to be Americans first and Hyphenated-Americans (or Catholics or Deaf or some other "tribe") second. I don't believe we'll ever see in the U.S. the kinds of intertribal violence we see in, for example, some African/Middle Eastern countries.
Good points Steve, and I found myself agreeing with all of them, though I did have a little hiccup on the first. I'm thinking of the internment of Japanese-Americans during WW2. There was even a camp here in Santa Fe. Of course, I think that was long, long ago - not really a part of the "national character." More recently, though, I was very disturbed by the violence against Mosques after the terrorist attack, and the violence agains Muslims and others who look like Muslims, (we have a Sikh community near Santa Fe, and they have run into a lot of difficulty because of their turbans).
That said, I don't identify with the people who reacted in such an irrational, violent matter. I did not see the terrorist attack as an attack on America, and I was deeply disturbed that it was used as an excuse for military action in Iraq and Afganistan. (There may have been some positive outcomes, but I don't know. I tend to be an isolationist. Do we really need to be the world's policeman?) Were the Japanese internment camps, and the outrage and suspicion leveled agains Muslims, somehow an expression of the darker side of the American psyche?
As an aside, I don't think of the US as a fashion innovator. French and Italian fashion is often a couple of years ahead of us.
And not having a rigid, defined culture is part of what encourages innovation, IMO.
May I offer some ideas from north of the border remembering that thought is father and mother to the deed whether of culture or anything else?
When you hear/read about or experience other cultures, you will note that, by comparison, the US public has expectations of credible banking, safety/judicial services, food inspection, infrastructure, equality, freedom of thought, focus on research, wide-ranging goals and ambitions. A culture is something that often citizens take for granted not realizing how truly precious it is.
One has to decide what is important to Americans to answer the question. Soooo... from travels in the US and with Americans, I have observed these things which are not under judgement in any way.
I believe Americans think:
There is nothing that is not possible if one has the money and desire.
If you need a hand, call me.
I am free to think and do as I wish and will not hesitate to speak up in necessary.
I will do my part.
Speak up if you want something.
Loud is as OK as quiet.
Big is as OK as small but probably bigger is better in general
If I want to show off with home, jewelry, cars etc, that is my right.
I have rights and will fight for them.
I am defensive about the long history of the European and other societies and have an emphasis on US history.
I love stars of sport, screen etc...
Speak up if you want something.
Loud is as OK as quiet.
I would mostly agree with your list except for the two quoted. The one thing I remember being told over and over again when I was a child was "Children are to be seen and not heard." Thanks a lot Mom. I still feel like I should be seen but not heard. I also feel like I was taught to give to others but not to ask for things for myself. If you want something, I was taught to wait to make sure that everyone else had their share first, and then you could help yourself to what was left - but not all of what was left. In talking to other people, I think that might be a characteristic of the South. I've run into other people from the Southeast who are hesitant to drain the milk jug, or take the last of the ice cream. It's one of those behavioral characteristics that can drive significant others crazy. "Why did you put the milk jug back with just a tiny bit of milk in the bottom?" "I went to get some ice cream, and there were only two spoonfuls left!" While maybe not a national cultural characteristic, I think being seen but not heard and not taking the last of anything may be a regional cultural characteristic that I didn't think about having.
iris lilies
1-17-14, 12:19pm
Santa Fe is exotic for that German student, he/she is lucky! That area is not a typical American experience, or culture if you will, with the Anglo and Mexican and Spanish cultures coming together.
I think American culture is about being multicultural. No singular one-size-fits-all way of being. Beer and brats or sushi and sake or Pho and Bao or tacos and sangria - it's all part of being an American.
I think American culture is about being multicultural. No singular one-size-fits-all way of being. Beer and brats or sushi and sake or Pho and Bao or tacos and sangria - it's all part of being an American.
And that's one aspect of our culture I can wholeheartedly get behind.
Hey, can I be your exchange student and live in Santa Fe for a year? Sounds like a lucky student, indeed. Having talked to a few Europeans, I know the student will be fascinated by the wide open spaces around Santa Fe, and especially the native American history, art, festivals, etc. As far as our culture, I would most agree with Spartana's observation that American culture is all about multi-culturalism....as well as razz's statements that the American culture is one of optimism, individualism, and generosity of spirit. Oh, and Friday night football - of course Friday night football at the high school is tops.
YOU are are American culture just as you are. You and your family should just be themselves and the student can see what it can be like for one family in America. Even a country the size of Germany the student knows that his/her family is not the same as their next door neighbor or the ones on the next block, etc.
Ask the student what they would like to experience while staying with you. You may be pleasantly surprised at what they'd like to do.
YOU are are American culture just as you are. You and your family should just be themselves and the student can see what it can be like for one family in America. Even a country the size of Germany the student knows that his/her family is not the same as their next door neighbor or the ones on the next block, etc.
Ask the student what they would like to experience while staying with you. You may be pleasantly surprised at what they'd like to do.
+1
Paul, I very highly recommend this book for you and for anyone else who ponders the question of American culture(s). My husband and I both found it to be fascinating.
American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America by Colin Woodard (http://amzn.com/0143122029)
I've lived in multiple regions and traveled widely across the U.S. and it really helped me understand many things, including why I finally felt I had come home when I moved to MN as an adult. It discusses how the first European settlers of various regions of what is now the U.S. brought their culture with them and to a large extent that defines the culture of that region today. This may sound far-fetched, but I found that the background provided really corresponded to the areas in which I've lived and traveled, even in Virginia, where the state is divided between at least 3 (if I recall correctly) of his "11 nations."
I have a friend who moved here from Germany a couple years ago and we have many interesting conversations about culture. I can't answer some of her questions without a lot of thought, such as where to go for good American food. I don't really know what American food is. It is different to different people. Today I would say that good American food is in the farm-to-table movement - but that's my opinion, and if she were to ask 10 Americans she'd probably get 10 different answers.
Culture evolves, everywhere. While most Americans might be able to list some traditional German foods, they might not know that those foods each come from a specific region and they are not all widespread around Germany - and they also might not know about modern trends in German foods. It is the same here. There is probably a caricatured American culture that people in other countries see, but in practice it American culture is much more varied and much deeper than that (thankfully!).
rodeosweetheart
1-18-14, 8:08am
What an interesting question, Paul. I liked reading about you being from South Carolina, as I was born in Georgia, and what you describe is familiar, yet omits "the rest of the story" as Paul Harve would say. SC has the Gullah culture, the experience of reconstructing after war, the experience of family, the experience of immigration--my South Carolina roots involve the Swiss migration where in 1732, an entire Swiss village immigrated to South Carolina, of all places--apparently they found it way too hot and less successful than similar immigrations to Wisconsin:laff: But they stayed. I think Spartana's answer is really important.
On a side note, my father was an unreconstructed anti-German, having lost a flyer brother in WWII, shot down in Normandy. Growing up, the only group of people that he ever spoke badly of were Germans. And then in high school, I was a member of the International Club, and they sent a 15 year old German girl to spend the night with our family. I have to say, he treated that girl with kindness and respect, and we sat up all night playing the guitar and talking,and I still remember a song she taught me. I think his kindness that day, in a situation that must have awoken some pain for him, as well as my uncle's willingness to go to Britain and provide air cover for D day--I think both of those things come out of a uniquely American culture.
My American roots go back to 1620, when a grandfather came over on the Lion and helped to found Rhode Island. Another grandfather was escaping religious persecution as a Quaker in Ireland, a few years later. Supposedly, there is a Cherokee grandparent somehwere.
I do so love our country, which is much more than Wonder bread--it is infinite possibility, and the capacity for freedom.
Most of the roots of my family that I'm aware of are in Eastern and Central Tennessee, though I've never spent much time there. The farthest back we can trace is a Cooley ancestor who came down into North Carolina just before the American Revolution, and he fought in the war before moving into Humphrey's County Tennessee, and there the Cooleys seemed to have stayed until my father. He was born in Arkansas. My grandpa Cooley left my father's mother and lived in a dirt-floor cabin in the Tennessee mountains and gathered roots for a living. My grandmother Cooley was one of the Melungeon people - I think there is some controversy as to exactly who they were as a group, but I've heard it was a tri-racial mix of Native American, Spanish, and African American. My mother's side of the family were the Stokeley's of Western North Carolina/Eastern Tennessee, the same family that had the canning company, but my sister says our side was a poorer side of the family. Jehu Stokeley - several generations back - came over from England to Charleston, South Carolina before moving up to N.C.
I feel like my roots go pretty far back in the Southeast, (though I somehow think of Tennessee as being a place apart). I've always experienced some sense of grief that I don't feel like I fit in there. Part of my cultural questions center around thinking I should have some behaviors in my life, or some set of values, that were passed down through all those generations. I should feel some tie to that region of the United States that pulls me back. I really felt most at home when I arrived in Santa Fe in 1986. As a follower of the eastern mystic, Meher Baba, I do try to get back to the Meher Spiritual Center (http://mehercenter.org) in Myrtle Beach, SC once a year or so. It's located in 500 acres of virgin forest, and when I'm there, I feel more at home than I've ever felt anywhere, and it reminds me of when I was a boy playing in the woods across the street from my house, and of all of our summer vacations to the beach as well. But I visit my brother and sister in Columbia out of filial obligation. I feel ill at ease in the city. Maybe my cultural roots go so deep in the area I just haven't caught up to air conditioning and motor vehicles. The piedmont region of South Carolina is very beautiful. I might feel different visiting if it was a place of farms and forests.
I think I will pick up a copy of "American Nations." I've always been very curious about my identity as an "American." My family has been here since before there was a United States, but I've never felt particularly American.
There is a picture of my grandfather here (http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/3688418/person/-1700116943/mediax/adab68aa-005a-4969-baa6-f98662f4a37c?pg=32768&pgpl=pid). He was a scary looking man. That's my father on the right. This (http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/3688418/person/-1700117775/mediax/4?pgnum=1&pg=0&pgpl=pid%7CpgNum) is my Granny Cooley. Unfortunately, both of my Cooley grandparents died before I was born. Only my mother's mother was around during my childhood. She gave me helpful advice like "Don't you go up to New York City. They'll hit you on the head and take your money."
This is a good question. I just ordered the book from the library. Having a Canadian, naturalized citizen mother, Birmingham, AL raised father and a childhood in Pittsburgh, career and marriage, family in Maryland I find I notice some cultures in the Eastern US are very diverse. Pittsburgh and Baltimore have similar ethnic groups that settled, but Baltimore is definitely southern. I am in piedmont Maryland which is quite Southern to me, but not to my native Marylander husband whose mother was from Raleigh,NC. Comfort levels- I cannot move farther south....but don't want to be in the cold of the north. Is it culture that makes me comfortable? I'm looking forward to reading the book . American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America by Colin Woodard (http://amzn.com/0143122029)
Wow, what a great experience for your family, Paul! My parents hosted a German student for a year, two years ago and they still keep in touch and plan to visit Germany this year. She got a particular experience: spending a year in Northern CO was different than if it had been Santa Fe, or New York City, or South Carolina, etc. But also she got a specific experience with my family vs any other family in the program. My parents are a pretty liberal, mixed-race empty-nester couple. This student had a friend in the same program who got placed with a (probably more "typical American") family with a couple of grade-school aged children who were very religious and insisted she attend church with them. For my parents' student, it so happened that my dad has relatives in NYC so they went there for a trip to see that city. Then my mom and the student visited us in Phoenix, and we drove across the desert to San Diego to see the Pacific Ocean and California. I don't think this was necessarily the case with all the students in the program, but she got to experience a few different sub-cultures and had a great time.
The question of "what is American culture" is an interesting one. From a couple of brief trips outside the US, I would add that Americans generally expect a certain level of honesty and standards. For example, whether you're in Georgia or Oregon, if an American gets pulled over by a cop it's pretty likely that neither of the following will occur: 1) the driver offers some money to the cop to get out of the ticket or 2) the cop implies or overtly demands money to avoid arrest of the driver. Patriotism is seen as something to be encouraged and celebrated, which is not true everywhere. A friend of mine living here from Germany, in fact, was sort of surprised by Independence Day and Flag Day and the patriotism of Sept 11 anniversaries. To her, you wouldn't hang a German flag outside the house and wear a shirt with it (except at a football {soccer} game, possibly). Most Europeans I've known were shocked at the open lands of the West and in love with the desert. Having that openness is a sub-culture but the idea that there is always room to expand somewhere or pick up and find some place better, or start over, is American, even in the East. Just the comments from this thread about people finding or moving to where they "fit" is part of American culture. Not to say that some of these aren't shared by some other cultures but it may be something difficult to see until you realize that's not the way things are everywhere. To be myopic/narcissistic about America is also kind of American, I think.
In any case, possibly one of the more interesting things during this exchange will be you finding out just how American you are ;)
This is a great question. From my talking with people of other countries, it appears that ex-US people think that:
--American's are all rich, or at least exhibit the trappings of wealth: This may prove to be a great "teachable moment" for your German student, who sees your family practicing simple living and limiting consumption.
--Americans are arrogant: After 9/11, I was speaking with a person from the UK I had hired about our experience, and she said, simply, "Now do you know why people hate you?" I was really thrown by that. I answered, "Not really." She was immediately embarrassed that she had insulted her American client, and shut down, but I really think she was suggesting that we look like bullies to the rest of the world. This will give you a great opportunity to show your guest that Americans can be sincere and down-to-earth and do not necessarily represent the type of behavior the government exhibits..
--Americans all have Southern accents and wear ten-gallon hats. This will be a great opportunity for you to explain to your guest all the different kinds of Americans there are.
--Americans hold their privacy and individuality close and expect others to respect that. I interviewed several Indian doctors who are amazed at how hands-off family members are with respect to their loved one's healthcare. (I was speaking with psychiatrists--I expect this is different for primary care doctors). And also how self-reliant we expect others to be. One of the Indian doctors was totally confused when her patient told her that her father had driven her to the doctor's office and she gave him money for gas. That simply did not compute for her. This gives you an opportunity to show that Americans can be sharing family members.
I hope you enjoy the experience! Please report back.
flowerseverywhere
1-19-14, 6:09am
There are so many different American cultures. Your experience in the southwest will be totally different than if she went to San Francisco, or New Orleans, or the northeast. I think we have a very varied culture.
several things come to my mind when I think of My travels to Western Europe and my interactions with travelers from Europe. One is newness of everything and the wide open spaces. Another is the car culture and how our markets are. In most of the Italy I saw small markets with fresh food had not been taken over by the repackaged grocery giants. However, the world is shrinking with the Kentucky fried/subway/mcdonalds influence seen all over the world. As we have travelled through Europe, China, and Australia my experience has been that most people have really funny views of American through TV influence. Shows like desperate housewives and all the crime shows that I hear about really skew the impression that others have of Americans. The whole gun ownership thing is foreign to many of them and they find it fascinating. But in almost every place we have gone young people seem to want to figure out how to get here. Most surprising was the young Australians who I thought were living in a 50's style US in the 90's which made me very nostalgic.
I am am interested to find out how it all turns out.
Our German connections (from my visit there) think of us as a young culture and of our homes as cheaply constructed.
I think "culture" is just a label we use for various stereotypes. Stereotypes are not what any groups actually are, it's how other people think about them. Maybe the difficulty with defining "American culture" is that we are in it - I'd be curious if people from other countries have trouble defining their own "cultures", but have a much easier time defining ours?
Interesting topic!
I was talking with DH about how we might treat an exchange student from another country, and what we would emphasize. What's been said is so true..........there are so many different "cultures" in the U.S.
Hopefully, the student wouldn't only be interested in the crappy stuff we seem to specialize in here.
We would, of course, live how we live here in our home..........good food from scratch, talk alot about everything, listen to news, enjoy nature, etc., etc. If we hosted a student, we'd try to take him/her to all the various events........plays, movies, h.S. sports, encourage him/her to be in school clubs that they might be interested in, maybe take small trips to certain areas.
But.......unlike many other countries, we're the "melting pot"...........so I don't think we have very specific, identifiable cultural characteristics........except for lots and lots of huge stores that sell lots and lots of crap, fast food joints, etc. (I live in central Indiana, and we don't have culture here......haha).
We would just do alot of talking with them about all sorts of things, and help them decide what they would like to experience here. Hopefully, it wouldn't be just the crap stuff here............of which there is soooooooo much.
DH and I have talked about this before.......that we really don't have a specific culture.....not like Italy, France, Scandinavia, German, Hungary, etc., etc.
Alot would also depend on your location, and where could easily visit to talk about culture, architecture, food, traditions, etc.
ApatheticNoMore
1-19-14, 12:16pm
It would be a good idea. :) Ok couldn't resist paraphrasing the joke about western civilization: it would be a good idea.
Yea hard to define a culture while in it, so I wouldn't attempt to try (maybe just I'd explain it by spending all my time working and commuting like I do now so I have no time for the exchange student and that is American culture pretty much - I mean when I was an exchange student in France years ago, it was in their month off partly - so I got shown around and taken on vacation etc. - hard to duplicate that experience here).
Plus anything that tries to explain the culture without being multiracial, multicultural, and multincome (truthfully lots of income disparity) is not my actual full experience of American culture. I could explain southern California to them, an honest description is not flattering, but I could take them to really pretty places too, I know them, fine I seek them out. Yea foreigners love wide open spaces and so on. Me too.
SteveinMN
1-20-14, 11:07am
What's been said is so true..........there are so many different "cultures" in the U.S.
[snip]
DH and I have talked about this before.......that we really don't have a specific culture.....not like Italy, France, Scandinavia, German, Hungary, etc., etc.
I don't believe many countries have just one specific culture. Talk to Turkish "guest workers" in Germany about what their days are like, or to Muslims living in France, or even to indigenous people in Australia and New Zealand, and their social norms and beliefs will be noticeably different from what we think of as "German" or "French" or "Australian" daily life. Certainly there are countries which are much more homogeneous than others (such as Japan). But even in those, there may be social norms which are widely observed, but, IMHO, few real touchstones of culture.
Hey, can I be your exchange student and live in Santa Fe for a year? Sounds like a lucky student, indeed. Having talked to a few Europeans, I know the student will be fascinated by the wide open spaces around Santa Fe, and especially the native American history, art, festivals, etc. As far as our culture, I would most agree with Spartana's observation that American culture is all about multi-culturalism....as well as razz's statements that the American culture is one of optimism, individualism, and generosity of spirit. Oh, and Friday night football - of course Friday night football at the high school is tops. I lived in Europe for a couple of years and I agree that most Europeans are fascinated by Southwestern and Native American cultures so being in Santa Fe will be a huge plus for them. Also those wide open desert vistas are something most Germans don't see unless they vacation in places like Africa, so that will be of great interest to them. My Mom was born and raised in Germany and didn't come to the USA until in her mid-20s (and my Dad was a first generation Swede who's parents immigrated here from Sweden) and we had some cultural things that were probably a bit different from other Americans who were here for longer as well as immigrants of other countries. So really, I just don't see American culture as being one specific way but that of a mix of many cultures and their own separate and diverse ways of living. I live in a very mono-cultural area right now - but not a "typical" white bread American one but a Vietnamese one - as I live in the largest Vietnamese community in the world outside of Vietnam. I am one of the few euro-Americans (i.e. white, Caucasian) people in my area. But my area IS America. The people for the most part ARE Americans - some 3rd generational or more unlike me who was also born in Europe. Next to this area is a large Hispanic population as well as Pacific Islander, Korean, etc... Lots of diversity and a weird mix of cultural influences. We even have a small German village right smack in the middle that specializes in all things German - and has an annual Oktoberfest and many beer-related activities :-). Nothing more multicultural than seeing a bunch of beer swilling Vietnamese-Americans doing the Chicken Dance to Om-Pa music :-)!
I thought I would post an update. We're halfway through our German guest's visit. She is very sweet, and she enjoys goading my daughter into laughter, but her english isn't very far along. We can communicate, but we can't really discuss, so we don't have a very good idea of what she thinks of us.
The observations seem very superficial. We perceive 1) German teens spend a LOT more time texting on their phones than American teens, though that might just as well be a function of being in a foreign country. We're lucky to get our daughter to turn her cell phone on. Lisa's phone is always buzzing, and she is always glancing at it. 2) Germans seem to be much more fascinated by name brands.
The thing she seems most impressed with are the malls, and the fact that Nike shoes are cheap in America. We're busily trying to impress her with our chickens, honey bees, and tempeh incubator, (those are the things that seem cultural and American to me, even though all three are imports from the old world), and she seems most fascinated by the shopping malls. Ah well. Maybe it's just the language barrier.
I would add that my daughter feels our guest thinks the lives of American teens are boring. Our guest gets out of school at 1:00 p.m. and spends a lot of time socializing with her friends and hanging out at the disco. (Disco? Haven't those been long, long gone?) My daughter leaves for school at 7:10, is in school until 4:00, has athletics or other clubs until 7 or 7:30, comes home to eat, and then does homework until 10:30 or 11:00. Is it fair to say that in American culture, teenagers don't hang out with their friends?
Edited to add: I keep emphasizing to her with a somewhat horrified expression that we don't really go to the malls and don't know many people who do. Someone goes to malls, evidently, but not our social circle. We shop in thrift stores for most things and the grocery store for everything else. That seems hard to communicate.
SteveinMN
2-24-14, 10:38pm
I keep emphasizing to her with a somewhat horrified expression that we don't really go to the malls and don't know many people who do. Someone goes to malls, evidently, but not our social circle. We shop in thrift stores for most things and the grocery store for everything else. That seems hard to communicate.
I'm guessing it's hard to communicate in part because it does not square with her experiences and that of her new friends. Given the amount of advertising in America, the dependence on consumption as the driver of the American economy, and the many people she undoubtedly has seen in malls either in person or even on TV shows and in the news, the simple life you and your family depict is -- well -- unusual.
And that's fine. After all, you're representing American life as your family experiences it. You don't have to demonstrate some standard you don't agree with or represent the typical American family.
Personally, I find it unusual that your DD hasn't bonded with her cell phone. Most older teenagers/college-age students I know would be as bereft without their phone as they would their left arm. Not, as a famous comic once said, that there's anything wrong with your DD's approach. It's just another instance in which your family is not in the mainstream.
... I live in a very mono-cultural area right now - but not a "typical" white bread American one but a Vietnamese one - as I live in the largest Vietnamese community in the world outside of Vietnam. I am one of the few euro-Americans (i.e. white, Caucasian) people in my area. But my area IS America. The people for the most part ARE Americans - some 3rd generational or more unlike me who was also born in Europe. Next to this area is a large Hispanic population as well as Pacific Islander, Korean, etc... Lots of diversity and a weird mix of cultural influences. We even have a small German village right smack in the middle that specializes in all things German - and has an annual Oktoberfest and many beer-related activities :-). Nothing more multicultural than seeing a bunch of beer swilling Vietnamese-Americans doing the Chicken Dance to Om-Pa music :-)!
It sounds delightful--authentic fusion!
ApatheticNoMore
2-24-14, 11:31pm
I'm guessing it's hard to communicate in part because it does not square with her experiences and that of her new friends. Given the amount of advertising in America, the dependence on consumption as the driver of the American economy, and the many people she undoubtedly has seen in malls either in person or even on TV shows and in the news, the simple life you and your family depict is -- well -- unusual.
It's not unusual, there's quite a lot of people who basically believe in non-consumerist values. But are they some kind of majority? Well no. The majority are probably just trying to survive (and thus maximize convenience, ease, stress relief, forgetting their problems etc.). And well bohemianism although it speaks to many, has never paid, and speaks to the hearts of far more than it pays the bills of. As for much more mainstream, corporate America, in my experience there's a direct correlation between consumption and how much the company tends to pay (maybe not for the individual which is individual choice afterall but for the group). I've worked high paying places, it's vacations all over the world a few times a year (they also had vacation time) and expensive cars all over the parking lot. I've worked less well paying places (and I'm speaking within a middle class range not poverty or anything like that), it's vacation once a year at most often in the U.S. and even in the state (no vacation time anyway) and practical cars and lunch brought from home more often. The only consumption discussed then is buying clothes :). Teenagers are a different thing. They can spend money and really appreciate the value of none of it, not you know having full time jobs and the need to support themselves.
SteveinMN
2-26-14, 10:41am
I've worked less well paying places (and I'm speaking within a middle class range not poverty or anything like that), it's vacation once a year at most often in the U.S. and even in the state (no vacation time anyway) and practical cars and lunch brought from home more often. The only consumption discussed then is buying clothes :). Teenagers are a different thing. They can spend money and really appreciate the value of none of it, not you know having full time jobs and the need to support themselves.
The member of my family who requires full-time care has a steady parade of PCAs (Personal Care Assistants) going through the house. These folks are great people with family member and are dedicated to what they do. I thank God they're there because it's not something our family would be able to do for that family member. But none of those PCAs are paid more than $10-15 an hour and they have hardly any benefits (vacation/sick time, etc.).
And, to a person, they all have, umm, interesting priorities in how they spend what little they make. One of them has a penile-implant pickup for no reason connected to what it can haul/tow. Another one has a top-of-the-line smartphone but probably would be far ahead using a lesser phone and spending some money on disability insurance since she is not paid if she can't work. Another PCA has very nicely decorated fingernails -- and a car she cannot depend upon to start when it's very cold.
Before the right-wingers and libertarians here start streaming out of the woodwork, I will say that I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever floats their boat -- as long as they don't require other people to subsidize their choices. IMHO, many low-wage earners are neglecting their financial safety because they're being sold on the status of an oversized pickup truck or the latest blingy thing they can show off. I believe that's a consumerist culture at work. And I think people who aren't paid buckets of money are just as susceptible to the "you need to have this shiny object" approach as people with more money. They just lack the means to respond to it without sacrificing something else of real value.
Before the right-wingers and libertarians here start streaming out of the woodwork, I will say that I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever floats their boat -- as long as they don't require other people to subsidize their choices. That's actually a "right wing / libertarian" concept. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.
IMHO, many low-wage earners are neglecting their financial safety because they're being sold on the status of an oversized pickup truck or the latest blingy thing they can show off. I believe that's a consumerist culture at work. And I think people who aren't paid buckets of money are just as susceptible to the "you need to have this shiny object" approach as people with more money. They just lack the means to respond to it without sacrificing something else of real value.
It could also be that they've simply prioritized in an unapproved manner. It may take a few generations of tacit, and increasingly vocal, disapproval to eliminate that sort of thing.
onlinemoniker
2-26-14, 3:45pm
Try not to worry about it. We have a great culture. Embrace the fact that people like NASCAR and football and eat crappy food. It's ok. It's not immoral or indecent or unethical or mean-spirited.
And there are PLENTY of Americans that like more sophisticated things. There are also plenty of Germans who like Weiner schnitzel (chicken fried steak,) bratwurst (hot dogs) and swilling beer at soccer games.
I can assure you the Germans who are coming are THRILLED to see American culture up close and it's not because they now have the opportunity to feel culturally superior to the Americans. Likely, they are a little in awe of our culture.
I was pleased that when I asked our guest if she was looking forward to going back home, she said "A little, but I will miss it here. People are so nice in America." I've never thought of our culture as particularly friendly, but I guess it is. She also said that they are much more strict in school in Germany.
Steve -- I've often wondered about why people spend money on things that are very expensive and/or unnecessary. Not that a few unnecessary things aren't nice to have. I think it's important to have financial goals. What's more important: an iPhone or paying off the mortgage? A new car or a healthy savings account? Maybe too many people just believe that the deck is stacked against them, and they might as well use that credit card to buy an iPad because they aren't going to get anywhere anyway. I don't know if that's true. I'm just guessing. I'll have fits of wanting things. When iPhones came out, I thought "cool!" But how many minutes do I use on my $10 a month, pay-as-you-go phone? I spend about 4 minutes a month on the cell phone. We've had a couple of Kindles given to us, but occasionally I think it would be nice to have an iPad. But do I *really* want an iPad to the tune of $400 or so? No, I don't *really*. Lust for electronics seems like a particularly potent form of cultural disease right now. If I didn't have the goal of paying off the mortgage, and I didn't have this cranky, Luddite facade to live up to, then I'm sure I would impulsively spend much more than I really want to on gadgets. But our income hovers around $60,000. How are the people that are making $18,000 a year doing those things? If I were in that situation, I would be lighting the house with candles from my own hive, and I'd be typing this on my old typewriter, not a MacBook, and my bicycle would most likely be from Walmart if I had one at all.
I think it's important to have financial goals. What's more important: an iPhone or paying off the mortgage? A new car or a healthy savings account? Maybe too many people just believe that the deck is stacked against them, and they might as well use that credit card to buy an iPad because they aren't going to get anywhere anyway. I don't know if that's true. I'm just guessing.
I think it's truer than you know. DW is a social worker and a former poor single mother herself. She very readily understands the mentality that money in life is uncertain, so if you have money and you want something, you buy it. Something will come along to eat up that money anyway; might as have something you enjoy. This is a sign that people see social/class mobility as out of reach.
I also read an article (http://tressiemc.com/2013/10/29/the-logic-of-stupid-poor-people/) a few months ago about classism and how it drives especially poor people to do what they do:
I found one candidate particularly charming. She was trying to get out of a salon because 10 hours on her feet cutting hair would average out to an hourly rate below minimum wage. A desk job with 40 set hours and medical benefits represented mobility for her. When she left my VP turned to me and said, “did you see that tank top she had on under her blouse?! OMG, you wear a silk shell, not a tank top!” Both of the women were black.
[...]Gatekeeping is a complex job of managing boundaries that do not just define others but that also define ourselves. Status symbols — silk shells, designer shoes, luxury handbags — become keys to unlock these gates. If I need a job that will save my lower back and move my baby from medicaid to an HMO, how much should I spend signaling to people like my former VP that I will not compromise her status by opening the door to me? That candidate maybe could not afford a proper shell. I will never know. But I do know that had she gone hungry for two days to pay for it or missed wages for a trip to the store to buy it, she may have been rewarded a job that could have lifted her above minimum wage.
If I were to interview for another tech job and pulled out an old beat-up flip phone to retrieve a phone number, I would fail to meet the expectations of those interviewing me. I may not need a smartphone (or even want one) but sometimes the appearance it provides offers much more than the cost. And, courtesy of our consumerist society, even pulling out a smartphone is subject to some judgement ("Heh. Prepaid cheap Android phone." "What is that? It has a physical keyboard!").
I know some of what I've written here appears to contradict what I wrote earlier. It's not a simple thing. And we all get to make it up as we go along.
But our income hovers around $60,000. How are the people that are making $18,000 a year doing those things? If I were in that situation, I would be lighting the house with candles from my own hive, and I'd be typing this on my old typewriter, not a MacBook, and my bicycle would most likely be from Walmart if I had one at all.
They're not doing what you are doing. Own a house, never mind pay off the mortgage early, as you are doing? Not happening. Consider sending your kids to a private school? Not unless there's a (close-to-)full-ride scholarship/grants involved. You've made choices with your money, too.
SteveinMN
2-27-14, 10:04am
Originally Posted by SteveinMN:
Before the right-wingers and libertarians here start streaming out of the woodwork, I will say that I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever floats their boat -- as long as they don't require other people to subsidize their choices.
That's actually a "right wing / libertarian" concept. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.
I know that. You know that. But, very obviously, many people don't.
The apocryphal "welfare queen" incited many low-information Americans to believe that giving anyone a helping hand was tantamount to giving them the world on a platter -- while they themselves were busy accepting federal farm subsidies, TIF for their businesses and interest deductions for their houses, and preferential income and tax treatment even if they inherited their wealth (rather than earning it and "creating jobs") or are shipping jobs offshore as fast as the paperwork can be printed. I have a niece in the Army (not in combat) who plasters her Facebook feed with the usual Limbaugh/Hannity talking points about government waste. Her mom, who is paid by the county she and DH live in to foster developmentally-disabled kids, posts the same nonsense. Neither one of them sees the irony in accepting government money for what they do. it's never waste when it applies to them.
And I'm tired of people kicking the cans down the road. Is that a libertarian concept? Want to drive a penismobile that goes off-road only when you hit the ditch on an icy road? Fine. But don't squawk about how expensive it is to feed that beast, especially when you choose to live in the wide-open spaces 40-50 miles from where you work. And when it comes time to send soldiers off to fight in some oil-laden desert somewhere to keep the price of that gas low, don't hide yourself and your kids and make others do multiple tours of duty. Don't complain how much of a bite taxes take from your businesses' profits when your own employees are paid so little that they have to go to a hospital ER to treat just about any ailment and need food stamps to make ends meet. Pay your own freight. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.
It could also be that they've simply prioritized in an unapproved manner. It may take a few generations of tacit, and increasingly vocal, disapproval to eliminate that sort of thing.
I can see some people are particularly resistant to that re-education.
In the space of a generation or two, American society has largely turned smokers into pariahs. It is no longer OK to drink and drive. It is no longer OK to discriminate against people for factors (like race and sexual orientation) that they do not control. Or to remain silent in the face of child abuse no matter how powerful the perpetrator.
Public pressure is not always a bad thing. Much as people like to think they are their own personally-hewn islands, they are not. And they do not exist in a vacuum. Very little does.
Steve et al I've started a new thread in the Consumerism forum title "Possessions as Social Capital." I find the whole question very complex and interesting.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.