"It's difficult to be able to cut back"

[Tradd]

I was listening to the local all-news AM station today and heard a story on the CBS news at the top of the hour about how utility bills are going to increase after the unusual cold here in the Midwest. A guy who is both a meteorologist and I believe a consultant to utility companies, was interviewed and said something along the lines of:

"It's difficult to be able to cut back. You still have to heat your home in the winter."

I just shook my head. Now, if you're already keeping your heat low, as I am, with thermostat set at 60-65, then it would be difficult to cut back. But if you're like the majority of people I know, who keep their heat set at 72 all day, and then gripe about their utility bills, well, there is room to cut back. Turn the heat down to 68. Wear a sweater, cover with a blanket when watching TV. Put an extra blanket on your bed.

Sheesh.

[rodeosweetheart]

Propane prices have doubled here in northern Michigan. We keep our house the way you keep yours, Tradd, but I am still horrified by the prices of propane, and glad we locked in.

[Tradd]

Propane prices have doubled here in northern Michigan. We keep our house the way you keep yours, Tradd, but I am still horrified by the prices of propane, and glad we locked in.

I've seen multiple stories about the propane *shortage* - I had no idea it was so bad. You're at least doing something. Too many people don't even try.

[sweetana3]

We leave our heat at 65 since we are home most days. It normally fluctuates a little but we do not change it we just add more clothes. We also use an electric mattress pad to preheat the bed before we come upstairs. If we tried to keep the upstairs a high temp, it would cost us a fortune. Luckily, we like it cooler where we sleep. I check all windows and doors for leaks and make sure we have a rolled up towel at the bottom of doors.

We have friends that do none of this. At least I dont have to hear them gripe but I know the cost of heating is hurting them.

[artist]

When temps get well below freezing and onto negatives as they have Ben your heating system has to work extra hard to maintain whatever temp you set your termostat at. As a result you will be using more fuel no matter how low it is set. The greater the difference between the outside and inside temp. The harder you system has to work.

[razz]

I watched a meteorologist report today that said that the cold is expected to continue into early March so cost of all fuel needed and propane supplies will be impacted.
Wish I had moved more wood into my garage but I was basing the supply on the demand of the last two years. Mistake! We have had so much snow that it will take some effort to replenish my supply using the wheelbarrow. Ugh!

[Miss Cellane]

Cutting back on the heat can help save money. But Artist has a point, too.

This is the third winter I've been living here--in a two-family house where I live on the whole of the second floor. Same oil company from the start. I locked in the price in September and am on an auto-delivery plan. Usually during the winters, they deliver around the 30th of the month, and I get about 100-125 gallons per month for December through March. This month, January, they came last week on the 24th, and I got 175 gallons.

I've kept the temperature pretty much the same--58 degrees at night and when no one's home, 62 during the day when people are here. So it took quite a bit more oil to deal with the polar vortex and the following colder-than-usual weather that we've been having.

So even if people cut back, they may still be spending more money on heat this year than they had planned. There have been a couple of cloudy days where the house just doesn't seem to heat up (I work from home a couple of days a week), and I've had to use a space heater in my home office to make it warm enough to feel comfortable sitting still and working.

[Teacher Terry]

When I lived in a cold climate I did not know anyone that kept their heat high. Everyone kept it low even with little kids. It is such a major expense.

[Glo]

we usually keep our temp at 68. But with this extreme cold, I can't take it. So we're at 70. Our house is well insulated with new windows and doors, but when it's windy with single-digit temps it feels like the cold is seeping in.

[flowerseverywhere]

Tradd, here is a perfect story to illustrate your point. After living in the snow belt of over 200" per year, ice storms etc as soon as DH retired we moved south. We are very frugal in heat use, and our air conditioning when we really need it, is used sparingly. Our utility bill is often under $60, and never above $90, and that was during an intense heat wave. Yesterday someone told us a story about how they installed solar panels and how it has knocked down their bill $125 a month. They were thinking of getting more. We didn't know what to say.
I think the cold this year has really been awful up north and even with the heat on pipes in outside walls, like the kitchen sink could freeze. My sister in Minnesota has told us that people who hav lived their all their lives have not seen such cold weather since the seventies. When hardy Minnesotans close school for the cold you know it has to be really bad.

[Tradd]

A coworker today was saying she keeps her big townhouse at 73 all winter. She hates being cold, she said. What about.the gas bill? I asked her. She said she didn't.care as long.as.she was warm.

This is a women who recently went to a Windows phone from her beloved iPhone to save $50 dollars.nth on her cell bill. She and her eldest (college freshman) share a vehicle because they don't have the $$ to get the third vehicle fixed, when she says repair bill would be a couple hundred dollars. Her husband has an expensive sports car hobby, and they got evicted from their house a year ago and have to rent.

[redfox]

I'm a little shocked at the judgey comments here. Everyone has their own comfort point. My elder parents need a much warmer home than I do, as does my friend with a chronic illness. My arthritis is impacted by being too cold, which competes with my desire to be in a cold room because of hot flashes at night! Frugality is a worthy goal for me; judging others for their own choices is just mean.

[Spartana]

A coworker today was saying she keeps her big townhouse at 73 all winter. She hates being cold, she said. What about.the gas bill? I asked her. She said she didn't.care as long.as.she was warm.

This is a women who recently went to a Windows phone from her beloved iPhone to save $50 dollars.nth on her cell bill. She and her eldest (college freshman) share a vehicle because they don't have the $$ to get the third vehicle fixed, when she says repair bill would be a couple hundred dollars. Her husband has an expensive sports car hobby, and they got evicted from their house a year ago and have to rent. Well everyone has different levels of comfort and so her desire to be warm may be much more important to her than a phone or even a vehicle. It seem she is making an effort to reduce her other expenses in order to provide the thing more important to her - heat and comfort! I see the same thing here in Calif with air conditioning. People will pay a large amount of money (and give up other things) in order to run the A/C all the time. While as an environmental wacko myself :-) I'd like to see people live with a bit less comfort in order to preserve energy, I understand that warmth (or cold-th) is important to them over many other things.

[Tradd]

I've worked with this woman for some years. She'll be bitching about the gas bill within the next month.

Someone else I know was griping about her gas bill and is proud of how warm she keeps it -74. I told her if she wanted it warm then don't bitch about the cost. She stopped bitching after that.

[JaneV2.0]

I'm perfectly happy in a cold house. I have space heaters, warm clothes, and lap robes. If someone else wants to scrimp on something else and stay warm, who am I to criticize? I'm with Redfox.

[redfox]

I've worked with this woman for some years. She'll be bitching about the gas bill within the next month.

Someone else I know was griping about her gas bill and is proud of how warm she keeps it -74. I told her if she wanted it warm then don't bitch about the cost. She stopped bitching after that.

You prefer that she not complain?

[Miss Cellane]

Years ago, I moved into an apartment with electric heat. I called the electric company to get on their budget plan--where you pay the same amount every month, instead of just a little in the summer and huge amounts in the winter.

Based on the previous tenant's usage, they said I should pay $250 a month. Having lived in a very similar apartment before, that just seemed unreasonably high. So we negotiated $150 a month. And they kept warning me that I'd have to pay any difference in one lump sum in August if I wasn't paying enough.

Well, every room had its own thermostat, and it was a basement apartment so half of it was underground. I'd turn the heat down to 55 degrees when I left and only turn the heat on in the rooms I was using, and then only to 63-65 degrees.

My highest electric bill all winter was $125. Sometime around April, I got a message from the electric company that I wouldn't owe them any money until September. The next year, my budget plan payment was $100 a month.

I have no idea how hot the previous tenants kept the place, but it must have been very hot.

[Gardenarian]

I've seen multiple stories about the propane *shortage* - I had no idea it was so bad. You're at least doing something. Too many people don't even try.


No news about a shortage in my area. We are paying around $2.30 per gallon from Amerigas, but we belong to a buying club that locks in the prices for the season.
Of course, it's been a very summery winter in California, so it's makes little difference out here.

[Teacher Terry]

Until I saw someone mention this I never stopped to think about the fact that when people get older they often need to keep the temps warmer to be comfortable. I am this way only in the reverse. I can handle cold well but do not handle heat well at all. I probably spend more on A/C then heat. I think when you are young you handle discomfort in either direction better.

[reader99]

I'm a little shocked at the judgey comments here. Everyone has their own comfort point. My elder parents need a much warmer home than I do, as does my friend with a chronic illness. My arthritis is impacted by being too cold, which competes with my desire to be in a cold room because of hot flashes at night! Frugality is a worthy goal for me; judging others for their own choices is just mean.

I noticed that too but couldn't think of how to express it.

When I get all finger-pointy it's usually because there's something I'd like to feel better about myself about. Then I do the at-least-I thing. I may have done <whatever I'm feeling bad about> but at-least-I don't waste electricity with sybaritic excesses.

Usually I feel too warm so I have the central air at 62 and my guests and I each have a space heater in our bedroom. Yesterday I was having some kind of cold-flash and ran my space heater full blast 'til my room was 72 degrees. Normally I'd find that to be uncomfortably warm.

[Kestra]

Thank you, redfox. I am one of those cold sensitive people and am often put off by these threads. At work with "normal" office temps around 20-22 (68-72) I am wearing long johns all the time, 2 or 3 shirts or sweaters and sometimes gloves. So when I get home the temp is bumped up to 23-25 C so at least I can take 1 layer off and feel my fingers when typing. I've been broke and lived in a cold old house before but now that I can afford it and have a better house I'm happy to spend more money on heat. The flip side is I don't need air conditioning until it's approaching 35C. Luckily DH works in a really warm place so his body has acclimatized to heat and he wants it warm too. I'd hate it if one of us was always too hot or too cold.

[Teacher Terry]

I think sometimes it is easy to type something from your own perspective but not really realize how it is coming across to others. It is nice to save $ but horrible to do it at the expense of being physically uncomfortable. I got somewhat turned off by MR MM because people can be down right mean on that site.

[flowerseverywhere]

Many of the posts here are not meant to be mean, but supportive to Tradd. She has worked very hard and sacrificed a lot to be where she is. Of course people have different levels of comfort. But like everything, eating out, driving an expensive car, not putting on an extra blanket before turning up the heat are things that many of us need to be thoughtful of. Perhaps if random comments on an anonymous internet site bother you it is time to reassess why it would bother you so much. If you know you are doing the best you can under your own circumstances why would anyone else's opinions bother you?

[redfox]

Yes, no one wakes up in the morning intending to be judgmental or mean. In the spirit of community, I appreciate it when folks point out my lapses in civility. I likewise think it's important to do the same. I consider this online forum a community of which I am part, and to which we all contribute.

Likewise, I appreciate the diversity of viewpoints here. I've learned a lot from those with whom I may disagree, and I love how passionate folks get! I always prefer that strong sentiments especially are framed as personal stances rather than proscriptive ones, and I do have some reactivity to what sounds to me like better-than judgements. The tsk-tsking is disrespectful.

Stances which use language that is proscriptive shuts down dialogue, in my experience, and I prefer a more open hearted, inclusive, inquiry based approach. I definitely bristle at assumptions made in some of the posts here, since none of us knows what another's circumstances are, and why one chooses one path over another. Making a judgement of someone lacking, being wrong, the "shoulds" being applied to others is not what I hope to experience in this community. I much prefer hearing what works for each of us in our own lives towards the ends of simple living.

Does this help?

[Teacher Terry]

Flowerseverywhere, people's comments do not bother me. I do not even know where that is coming from. I was just commenting that it is easy (myself included to type something but not realize the circumstances that others are enduring).

[iris lilies]

This just reminds me of how hellishly hot my elderly mother kept her house. I dreaded visiting there in the winter. I did crack open windows at night when it was 25 degree F outside, desperate for some breathable air for sleeping.

[sweetana3]

I dont mind what people choose to buy, choose to do legally, make stupid or fantastic decisions about, throw their money or time at, etc.

It is just the constant complaining about their decisions and refusal to take personal responsibility for their actions that can grind me into the ground.

Totally different if their choices are outside their control. Running out of propane gives someone no choice. Losing a job due to layoff, losing a house due to fire, ditto. But keeping temperatures at summer level and then complaining to everyone that the bill is huge, hmmmmmm.........

[Tradd]

I dont mind what people choose to buy, choose to do legally, make stupid or fantastic decisions about, throw their money or time at, etc.

It is just the constant complaining about their decisions and refusal to take personal responsibility for their actions that can grind me into the ground.

Totally different if their choices are outside their control. Running out of propane gives someone no choice. Losing a job due to layoff, losing a house due to fire, ditto. But keeping temperatures at summer level and then complaining to everyone that the bill is huge, hmmmmmm.........

Previously mentioned coworker's gas bill for late December through late January was $300. You should have heard the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. We all knew about it very quickly. "I don't know how I'm going to pay this!" I told her she should have thought about that instead of saying she didn't care about the cost as long as she was warm. She closed her mouth, went back to her desk and sat down. We haven't heard anything more about it. She also gripes about how cold it is in the office, yet won't bother to put on a sweater. I told her it was annoying to hear her harping about the cold when she won't dress warmer or have a hot drink. She shut up - for at least a while.

[Icecrystal]

We have a small home and live in three rooms which are heated by electricity. Our monthly bill has increased by $98. since the cold snap began. We keep the thermostat at 68. The difficulty distributing propane hasn't affected us so far since the propane is to be used only when the power lines go down. I didn't know this before I read the coop publication, but as much as 1200 lbs. of weight can be added to power lines by ice accumulation!

[ApatheticNoMore]

Well they might be genuinely distressed about it (where education might help), but it's just perhaps a means of interacting or making conversation (game playing, well Eric Berne did say game playing had a higher payoff than anything except emotional intimacy, and one isn't usually seeking emotional intimacy with coworkers :~)

So a person can make all the money in the world and it will be "oh groceries just keep going up in price, it's completely ridiculous, I don't know what I'm going to do, I'm not going to be able to afford food and will starve to death soon!!!" (meanwhile they earn 6 figures ....) Oh yes, yes, you probably will indeed starve to death soon, this economy, I tell you. Or when the price of gasoline is hits $5 a gallon, people who do not have much to worry about with money still find griping about it a great source of conversation. I can't believe what I paid for gas today ...

Of course the other possibility is she actually grew up in a temperate climate, if California weren't already way overpopulated I'd tell her to come right back where she started from :laff: Or "Since I left Plumtree, down in Tennessee, it's the first time I've been warm"


She also gripes about how cold it is in the office, yet won't bother to put on a sweater. I told her it was annoying to hear her harping about the cold when she won't dress warmer or have a hot drink. She shut up - for at least a while.

I do wish they wouldn't run the A/C all year in the office (oh they do - no matter how perfect the weather outside is - it' 72 degrees outside (and sunny with puffy white clouds floating by :)), they're cranking the A/C). So I dress warm - I never leave home without another layer, I may not need it until I get to the office but I will when I get in there and I curse myself when I forget it (yea you idiot ANM, you think just because it's 105 degrees outside you don't need to wear a jacket).

[Yarrow]

I'm a little shocked at the judgey comments here. Everyone has their own comfort point. My elder parents need a much warmer home than I do, as does my friend with a chronic illness. My arthritis is impacted by being too cold, which competes with my desire to be in a cold room because of hot flashes at night! Frugality is a worthy goal for me; judging others for their own choices is just mean.


I so agree! My MS is affected horribly by both cold and hot. I NEED to live at a comfortable temperature in my home, and I do, even though it can be pretty darn unaffordable at times! I may even complain about it from time to time. ;)

[catherine]

This just reminds me of how hellishly hot my elderly mother kept her house. I dreaded visiting there in the winter. I did crack open windows at night when it was 25 degree F outside, desperate for some breathable air for sleeping.

And my MIL was the opposite.. She was very frugal and her house was like a meat locker. We always gave her Irish fisherman knit sweaters for Christmas. But she rarely got colds and never got the flu.

[profnot]

My little dog gets cold easier than I do. So I keep the temp inside in the 50s but I have a heating pad set to medium on her cushy chair with a towel on top. We're both comfy.

In the morning, I get out of bed and put my day clothes in the clothes dryer while I go back to bed. 7 - 10 minutes later my clothes are quite warm when I put them on.