Buying stuff - your take

[pinkytoe]

There is an interesting NYT article on how sales at businesses like Olive Garden and Sears are declining rapidly. The author says businesses believe this is due to a declining middle class. Several of the comments however believe a decline might more likely be due to the fact that middle-income buyers are becoming more thoughtful about their purchases. People now do a lot more value comparison - why should I buy a cheap made in China sweater from Old Navy when one from a thrift store made made by Pendleton ten years ago is of better quality for less money. Or why spend twenty dollars at mediocre Olive Garden when I can make a fabulous dinner for half that amount at home. What do you think? What are some examples of what you think constitutes a better value for the money spent?

[Teacher Terry]

I think it is probably due to both reasons. What I have seen in Nevada is that worker's salaries are indeed shrinking. Almost everyone of my friends has taken a significant pay cut. Many people love to eat out but when your income drops you have to really evaluate what you can afford to do. Also many people here have gotten laid-off. The middle class here is shrinking. Thrift stores have also become very popular. When I was a kid they only had junk but now have such nice stuff. I think we all can relate to buying something nice & then never using it so eventually off to the thrift store it goes. I bought a beautiful set of new crystal wine glasses-set of 8 for $8.00 in the box. It does take a little patience because it took me months of looking.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I don't want to sound like a negative Nando here.....but - there is a silver lining in what I am about to say. I believe personally that the middle class is shrinking but for me there's more to it than that. Work in general seems to have become so fast paced, so nightmarish, so without support, the expectations now on so many seem to me so inhumane.....when you get your check/direct deposit and make it stretch as far as you can - what little is left if any - do people really want to spend it given the unreal conditions tolerated to earn it? I know my last season at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon when I managed to get a ride into St. George (closest city of any size) I thought three and four times before spending any money as I continue to do today. In a way, it's like a political protest/statement against the workplace and to some degree, society in general.

The only problem with this is that if you get too many people on board with this kind of thinking, it can really negatively impact an economy which is 70% based upon consumer spending. My fondest wish for the future of America? To find a way to keep our citizens constructively occupied and housed and fed without the huge amount of consumerism being necessary. This would be better not only for our sanity and our quality of life but also for the planet. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I think it is probably due to both reasons. What I have seen in Nevada is that worker's salaries are indeed shrinking. Almost everyone of my friends has taken a significant pay cut. Many people love to eat out but when your income drops you have to really evaluate what you can afford to do. Also many people here have gotten laid-off. The middle class here is shrinking. Thrift stores have also become very popular. When I was a kid they only had junk but now have such nice stuff. I think we all can relate to buying something nice & then never using it so eventually off to the thrift store it goes. I bought a beautiful set of new crystal wine glasses-set of 8 for $8.00 in the box. It does take a little patience because it took me months of looking.

Are you in Vegas if I may ask? I have found some incredible deals in Vegas in thrift shops.....I have made some decent money on reselling my thrift shop finds from there. Rob

[ApatheticNoMore]

There is an interesting NYT article on how sales at businesses like Olive Garden and Sears are declining rapidly. The author says businesses believe this is due to a declining middle class. Several of the comments however believe a decline might more likely be due to the fact that middle-income buyers are becoming more thoughtful about their purchases.

I think probably more income inequality, what's left of the middle class may be the top 20% of income earners. I might resemble that remark or if not might be close (I don't know but everything is so expensive here anyway). That yes they can have stereotypically yuppie tastes. Not the Olive garden but a dish made with heirloom tomatoes and goat cheese from the farmers market, I substituted holy basil for basil because .... :) (actually I would type something like that). Snobby, yuppies, that you love to hate, limousine liberals, too gauche to just like Olive garden. But those who don't manage to hang on to such professional positions, that allow them to be yuppie, get wiped out in this economy.

My actual philosophy on Olive garden: it's ok, if you like gluten containing carbs, I mean it's really decent quality for that, but my philosophy is more if people I want to hang out with are going to Olive garden I'll go to Olive garden, because socializing is more important (and like I said it's not bad food) - and socializing is more important than penny pinching to me also. But it's not something I'll spend money on without the social aspect. I don't get it for myself, if I'm just picking up for myself cause I'm way too lazy to cook that day, I'll get a sandwich from a sandwich place or something :). Honestly though it's not that much cheaper, just less fuss!

[ApatheticNoMore]

Work in general seems to have become so fast paced, so nightmarish, so without support, the expectations now on so many seem to me so inhumane.....when you get your check/direct deposit and make it stretch as far as you can - what little is left if any - do people really want to spend it given the unreal conditions tolerated to earn it?

well I kind of figure if it's not spent wall street will probably just steal it all away anyway - or put it in cash and it's stolen more slowly by inflation (yea I just moved some to cash, and I know timing the markets is stupid, but how many times is this going to happen? that you build up savings for retirement and it gets all lost in a crash yet again? I've seen this movie before ...). I would rather a less stressful job, with less commute, with less hours, that paid less. If I could find one of those, sure taking less causes second guessing, but this treadmill is crazy.


In a way, it's like a political protest/statement against the workplace and to some degree, society in general.

I sometimes spend lots of times thinking how I can protest this society, this government, everything everything! Because it's so deeply wrong. I don't' want to buy anything, I don't want to pay any taxes, because it's all corrupt, corrupt and evil, evil! But then I'm getting into my brand of outraged crazy again. I can't save the world single handedly, but ugh ...


To find a way to keep our citizens constructively occupied and housed and fed without the huge amount of consumerism being necessary. This would be better not only for our sanity and our quality of life but also for the planet.

definitely agree with that

[Alan]

.... My fondest wish for the future of America? To find a way to keep our citizens constructively occupied and housed and fed without the huge amount of consumerism being necessary. This would be better not only for our sanity and our quality of life but also for the planet. Rob
They found a way to do this in the south years and years ago, but the Thirteenth Amendment abolished it.

[Teacher Terry]

Working p.t. is really the best of both worlds if you can afford to do so.

[ApatheticNoMore]

The thing is generally the type of jobs that tend to be part-time are Micky D's, while the kind of income where one could afford to live on a part-time salary is professional/semi-professional. Yes, it goes without saying, I'm assuming one income.

[sweetana3]

It could also be that consumers have been trained to be very fickle. They want new and improved and the wow factor. Olive Garden and Sears try but their names perpetuate OLD and stale. Doesnt matter what they do if they cannot keep new and existing customers coming in to look.

Just ask any teenager or young adult what they think about either of those two businesses.

[Teacher Terry]

Yes I was assuming 2 professionals both working p.t.

[Miss Cellane]

With Sears and JC Pennys, I think there's a combination of factors going on. One, I think people in general, except that upper 20% are spending less money overall. I've noticed that friends who have not had wage cuts or layoffs are just in general more nervous about money than they used to be, and they are re-thinking most expenditures.

And then, with these two stores in particular, I think management has played a role. I don't think the stores have kept up with the times, with the changes that internet shopping has brought, and with what consumers want. Consumers vote with their dollars, and they aren't taking those dollars to Sears and Pennys anymore. There's Amazon, there are the big box stores, there's WalMart and Costco.

I usually only eat at Olive Garden if I'm dining out with my sister--it's her favorite restaurant, I think. There's always a long wait if you go at peak times. So I wasn't aware that they were in any difficulties. If I had to pin-point anything, I'd look at the menu. It seems limited and doesn't have a lot of the trendier food items that younger, hipper people seem to want. And I'd say their ads are aimed more at younger, hipper people than old fuddy-duddies. The menu is full of breaded chicken breasts with different sauces on them--kind of boring to me. So again, while people are probably cutting their eating-out budgets, marketing and management probably have a big influence as well.

[Gardenarian]

Maybe the middle class is developing better taste.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I don't see anything wrong with Olive Garden for what it is, most restaurants aren't actually better. Of course it consistently has way too long a wait time! And of course I cook most of my food at home and I do often prefer it to restaurant food. But that's nothing to do with Olive Garden - I don't actually like *RESTAURANT* food period most of the time - I do them to socialize or overwhelming lazy and have a craving I want satisified instantly. Sears, I dont' think their clothing has ever been considered stylish, but I don't see anything wrong with Sears for appliances say. They have free delivery. Got my fridge there.

[CeciliaW]

I haven't seen anything in Sears or Penney's that I wanted or needed (except for band saw blades which we ordered on line) in years and years. I am just not their market I guess.

[onlinemoniker]

Middle class incomes have been shrinking since 1973. I think people want to cheap and new because it's easier. If they are purchasing less now, probably the main reason is because they no longer have as much disposable income as they did 5 years ago.

[Dhiana]

I usually only eat at Olive Garden if I'm dining out with my sister--it's her favorite restaurant, I think. There's always a long wait if you go at peak times. So I wasn't aware that they were in any difficulties. If I had to pin-point anything, I'd look at the menu. It seems limited and doesn't have a lot of the trendier food items that younger, hipper people seem to want. And I'd say their ads are aimed more at younger, hipper people than old fuddy-duddies. The menu is full of breaded chicken breasts with different sauces on them--kind of boring to me. So again, while people are probably cutting their eating-out budgets, marketing and management probably have a big influence as well.

This is the same audience that is really into the Paleo style of eating, too. Not much at Olive Garden for them.

Too often when I've gone shopping for something, the quality of the item is so crappy that it's not worth wasting the money. I'm willing to drop a lot of money on something of quality that I know will last but what is on the shelves is just garbage and will fall apart. So I just walk away.

The other problem I find is companies shoot themselves in the foot way too often.
I have a Japanese iPhone w/a Japanese contract while living in Japan but I cannot make any purchases via Japanese iTunes because I pay for it with a US credit card?? Never mind that a lot of the music and movie companies are Japanese owned anyway??
I'd love to watch the Japanese version of the movie Sideways but that's just not possible. Sure I could go to the corner movie store and rent/buy the movie but then I'd have to buy a Japanese regional DVD player.
Their loss.

Last time I lived in the states I looked at washer & dryers. It's only two of us so we don't need anything very big. If you want small in America then they assume you want cheap and don't have any money to spend. They only had garbage in the reasonable sized washer/dryers. If you wanted any features you had to buy the big laundromat sized ones.

Same with flat screen tvs...

I have money to spend, but all I find is garbage so, no, I'm not going to spend it. I get to save it :)

[ToomuchStuff]

I am more then a little out of touch with Olive Garden. I was still living at home (high school/end of high school), when ours was popular (breadsticks and blockbuster video). The last/only time I ate there, was in my early 20's at some family thing, as a broke/new homeowner, I had other expenses then dining out.


They found a way to do this in the south years and years ago, but the Thirteenth Amendment abolished it.

Did they really? I thought that only stopped some forced slavery, not voluntary indentured servitude or some of the cases reported like sweatshops, etc. Wasn't a diplomat recently deported due to this?

Now the whole Sears thing, is complicated. It is part both, plus a lot of other stuff (as it typically is). Sears for a lot of us, has been pretty much two things, appliances and tools. It might have been more once (toughskins that you outgrow, before you wear out), but things like the closing of their outlet stores did a lot of that in, LONG time ago. For tools, their Craftsman club thing, went from sales plus percentage off of whatever in the tool section, to just sale of what was in the flyer (typically the same thing over and over and over and ......). How many socket sets does one need? How many tool boxes? No real repeat business there after maybe 12 months.
There has also been a HUGE backlash to the outsourcing of their tool manufacturing. They might not have been directly involved, but knowing about it, (and not having USA in the manufacturing contract) they are taking a hit. Several of the manufacturers have merged, been sold, etc. and their tools are now branded China instead of USA. This happened before in the early 80's and there was some backlash, due in part to their made in the USA literature (FTC fine). Then they tried a debranding of lots of "Craftsman" stuff to just Sears or the OEM (different warranty). They have already gone through that again (dropped knives a few years ago, eliminated tape measures, a lot of hammers, etc, while also bringing out the Evolv line), There is a lot of the older USA tools on the secondary market (Sears has been around a long time), from garage/estate sales/swaps, etc. Also the made in China stuff can be bought for less at places like Harbor Freight, with the same warranty (where Sears in most cases, was actually turned in under the satisfaction guarantee, not the warranty)
Appliances, well, appliance stores/boutiques have done better, since Sears is less of a parts place now (lack of schematics with them), as well as parts going up and some runs of bad appliances of all brands (people associate the brand with where they buy). Then the louder word of mouth from those that have had bad experiences (know a few) from both appliances and their installers. Also, at least locally, I am sure they lost some business, when local codes changed so restaurants couldn't buy consumer grade appliances (no store bought freezer, just to keep cold beer mugs, has to be commercial).

Seems kind of weird to me, that they want you to repair some of the stuff they still sell (hammer handles, replaceable tape blades for the last lines of tape measures they used to sell), while they are wanting you to throw away more expensive items (appliances and such). Too many people have gotten used to a throw away society and have no workbench and can't do things themselves.

[Alan]

Did they really? I thought that only stopped some forced slavery, not voluntary indentured servitude or some of the cases reported like sweatshops, etc.
Of course you're right, voluntary indentured servitude was not affected. My response was directed at a comment that had nothing to do with "voluntary", but more to do with imposing wishes and/or preferences on others. Once that becomes government's wish, slavery naturally follows.

[iris lilies]

Maybe the middle class is developing better taste.

haha. no I doubt that.

Last night on a wild hair I stopped in to dine at one of those chain upscale Italian places. This one is called Brio Tuscan Grille and it has all of the lux things to make a nice dining experience (cloth napkins, very heavy silverware, minimal in number but decent quality nice bread products) and a really nice young waiter. But the food was so so mediocre, ugh. And bloody expensive. It sits in the same area as a very upscale shopping mall in a very upscale suburb.

Now I need to go leave a message that counters all of the good reviews the place gets.

[iris lilies]

They found a way to do this in the south years and years ago, but the Thirteenth Amendment abolished it. snort.

[razz]

Restaurant food seems to all taste about the same these days so avoid them all and eat at home. Sears tried to be all things to everybody and did very well for the longest time but now what the different generations want is so diverse that any store is going to have a hard time, not just Sears, unless they target their market and generations to be served.

[SteveinMN]

There is an interesting NYT article on how sales at businesses like Olive Garden and Sears are declining rapidly. The author says businesses believe this is due to a declining middle class. Several of the comments however believe a decline might more likely be due to the fact that middle-income buyers are becoming more thoughtful about their purchases.
I think the shrinking middle class (and their shrinking purchasing power) is part of that, sure. But I believe many of these businesses are deluding themselves about the marketplace.

Sears is a great example. They took away pretty much everything that was good about one of their key sales sectors (tools), maybe thinking that their customers wouldn't notice. They let the stores become dingy unpleasant places to shop. The guy who runs Sears doubled down by buying Kmart (another chain with absolutely no unique sales proposition) and by selling out brands like Craftsman and DieHard to competitors. As someone pointed out, why bother finding a Sears store and paying Sears' price to buy the same tool you can get for less at Harbor Freight?

Similarly, chains like Olive Garden and Red Lobster (same parent company) tried to go upscale. Their prices made it; their perception did not. So diners are finding better values at places like Chipotle or Panera, or bringing home dinner, ready to eat, from their local grocery store or Papa Murphy's.

The high end of any market seems to do quite well any time. Stores like Nordstrom and Publix don't need to worry much about their future. At the low end, so long as stores like Walmart and Target and Marshall's/TJMaxx keep their eyes on the ball and offer some sort of unique sales proposition, they'll survive. It's the middle-ground stores that need to think about where their customers are going and either choose to follow or to "maximize shareholder value" by selling to another company.

[catherine]

Or why spend twenty dollars at mediocre Olive Garden when I can make a fabulous dinner for half that amount at home.

My husband is not exactly frugal AT ALL. He is definitely the free spirit in the family, but this is his argument all the time. We never go to "moderately affordable" restaurants like Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Cheesecake Factory, etc. for exactly the reason you stated. When we go out he wants it be an experience, not just a highly-marketed mediocre meal. He considers those restaurants to be a total waste of money.

I also think people might be a little bit less into "stuff," believe or not. The younger gen is not as stably employed, they are more into experiences than things, from what I can see, and the older gen, the Baby Boomers, are realizing what a burden their stuff has become as they start downsizing and getting ready for retirement.

As for me, I am definitely into considering how long an item will last and paying for the longevity. So while I used to just buy $70 Hoovers, now I own a Miele vacuum cleaner, which I bought for what I thought was an exorbitant price ($300).

[ApatheticNoMore]

I don't see why more than "moderately affordable" restaurants are any less a waste of money than Olive Garden, except that they waste even MORE money, so there is that. Chipotle instead, I totally be up for that.

As for tools and the like, of course I'd want them to be well made and to last, so if you produce junk and are surprised no one wants to buy it: too bad, so sad. Appliances - well Sears has exactly the same stuff as the appliance stores - at least if your looking for a smaller apartment (but not mini, I do mean full height) size fridge for which there isn't much choice anyway - there's like 2 models (I wish those smaller fridges came in energy star models, it's why I shopped around I was hoping to find an energy star. But only the huge fridges were energy star).

[Teacher Terry]

I don't think all restaurant food tastes the same. We like some of the chains but we really like to support good local restaurants. If I was rich I would definitely eat out more-love someone cooking, cleaning up & waiting on me:~).

[onlinemoniker]

I generally do not like going to restaurants and feel ripped off when I do. I am a really good cook and think (with rare exceptions) I can make it better and cheaper at home and anyway I ENJOY cooking so it's not a break for me to go out. Also, I have a very restricted diet and when I do go to a restaurant, if I don't go to a special restaurant that caters to my diet, I'm lucky if there's one, perfectly ordinary offering for me to choose.

[JaneV2.0]

I go to restaurants that serve food I can't easily cook at home--mostly local ethnic places, nothing fancy--but less formulaic than Olive Garden, and probably less dependent on pre-fab food. We have a lot of choices around here. As far as Sears goes, I've never shopped there except for occasional tools and appliances. It's an unappealing retailer, always dowdy and out of fashion.

[rosarugosa]

We're with Catherine's husband as far as the dining out philosophy goes. I've actually never been to an Olive Garden or a Cheesecake Factory or a Red Lobster. DH can cook amazing meals at home, but he does like the break of having someone else prep and clean it up on occasion. We've been known to enjoy the Ninety-Nine, which is a moderately priced regional chain. They have some really neat dishes though. If they stopped selling things like panko-crusted cod on capellini with lemon, mushrooms, asparagus, & artichoke hearts, or the fried cod/BLT wrap, and nice wine by the extra-large glass, I would have no trouble staying away.
We have an upcoming weekend in Portland, and I'll happily loosen the purse strings and spend at least a month's grocery budget on fine dining over the weekend. That's one of the main attractions - succulent seafood, perfectly prepared, and enjoyed in a lovely setting with some of my favorite people. That's one of the reasons I try to be frugal in other areas, so that I can do this on occasion.

[pcooley]

I have to admit to being confused as to exactly what the middle class is and what the middle class supposedly does, and if I am a part of it or not. I would say that in the culture in which I have come of age, if you will, and matured into a middle-aged person, chain restaurants were seen as lower class. Now where, I wonder, did I get that impression? As a child, my family ate at McDonalds, and Kentucky Fried Chicken, and Long John Silvers. But I think I see that kind of thing as being what I was going away to college to get away from. I don't think Olive Garden was really around in the eighties when I left home. Going to college sort of paralleled discovering local restaurants, (though of course the budget also entailed a lot of ramen and spaghetti, etc.) I've never felt like I've ever really broken into middle class-dom in most ways, but I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've been to a chain restaurant in the last thirty years. As part of whatever class I'm in, it's just not done -- maybe it's the poor people with advanced college degrees class or maybe that's just typical of people in their forties these days. I don't know anyone in my social circle that eats at chain restaurants -- and people talk about where they're going out to eat all the time. I think people's sensibilities have just changed toward the local.

I still buy an occasional tool from Sears. But honestly, stores don't really carry things I need, or admittedly, things I just want. And also, for the most part, at 47, I no longer really need or want that many things. My clothes have come from thrift stores since I left home in 1984. Every twenty years or so I might buy a brand new pair of blue jeans, but I started not enjoying that so much after the stone-wash craze hit. Why would I want to buy jeans that already had some of the life scrubbed out of them. I'll see something I want in a magazine, (the most recent thing that led to a purchase was a review of pressure cookers in Cooks Illustrated), and I assume that Sears, Target, Dillards, etc. is not going to have the thing I want. (I bought a Fissler blue point pressure cooker, and it has worked much better than our aging Fangor pressure cooker). This assumption that the stores are not going to have what I want keeps me out of them. When I do get on a streak of "I should support my local economy" and go to the stores, I generally find that my assumption was true. The store does not have what I want. I think that might have more to do with the decline of Sears than any collapse of the middle class. My favorite place to browse for wants is the This Is Made By Hand shoppe (http://thisismadebyhand.com/shoppe/). That's the kind of stuff I like to think about buying if I want to think about buying stuff, which I generally don't. When I go into a department store, I'm just sort of overwhelmed by the crappiness of everything.

[SteveinMN]

When I go into a department store, I'm just sort of overwhelmed by the crappiness of everything.
I'm always struck when I look at craigslist and I see ads for old Montgomery Ward snowblowers. These were made by Gilson. Neither MW nor Gilson were high-end products even at their peaks. Both MW and Gilson were pretty much out of business by 1990. Yet, 25-35 years after they were built, these snowblowers keep on and parts are still available without cannibalizing other Gilsons. I hope my snowblower still is running in 15 more years. I bought a Toro in hopes of hedging that bet. But I'm wondering if the folks who bought snowblowers from generic manufacturers will be that lucky. Maybe none of us will be...

It will be interesting to see if there's a shift to better goods as the notion of "owning stuff" changes. Maybe if things are purchased for the longer term (instead of being considered cheap and disposable) there will be more emphasis on better-quality materials and designing for repairability.

[pinkytoe]

It will be interesting to see if there's a shift to better goods as the notion of "owning stuff" changes.
I think that's whats going on - we are just in the middle of it so hard to see the longer view.

[razz]

I think that's whats going on - we are just in the middle of it so hard to see the longer view.
First one has to be able to find 'better goods' which seems to be a real challenge at present.

[iris lilies]

First one has to be able to find 'better goods' which seems to be a real challenge at present.

Yes, Craigslist and ebay for the small things that can be shipped. Buy old and used quality, not the new crap that cannot be fixed.

[new2oregon]

I agree that they don't make things like appliances, lawnmowers, etc, to last like they used to. As far as people not buying and spending money like before, as for me I got to a point in my life where I really don't need things. I cook my own meals so I don't go out to eat much. My exwife was addicted to shopping. My Dad had taught me to be happy with I had. One thing I do like now is in the digital age you can take all the pictures and you don't have to buy film and get it developed to see if they came out good.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Yes, Craigslist and ebay for the small things that can be shipped. Buy old and used quality, not the new crap that cannot be fixed.I couldn't agree with you more. I'd much rather buy many things old and used than new and shiny. There was a time prior to my being born when things were made with incredible quality in America. I don't have the date this changed really but I can remember being little in the 70's and already then many things were being made in Japan - until the wages went too high in Japan and then the manufacturing country du jour changed. I can remember portable transistor radios from the 70's and early 80's were often made in Japan.

One season I was at the North Rim I found a ride into Kanab, Utah, and stopped at a yard sale. There I found a transistor radio from that era and flipped it over and Made in Japan was there! It felt so sturdy and solid compared to so many things today, and I grabbed it for $1. Someday it could go in a museum I'd bet. lol Rob

[pcooley]

I've started reading Matthew Crawford's "Shop Class as Soul Craft" (he's coming to give a lecture at an academic conference I'm working on). He bemoans the fact that shop classes are closing down around the country so there will be more money for "technology." He points out that people just aren't expected to repair things any more. If it breaks, throw it out and get a new one! In one opening image in the book, he points out how, when you open the hood of a newer car, there is another hood underneath, bolted on top of the engine, because we - the consumers - aren't supposed to get under the hood and tinker with our cars any more.

When I was in college, I had a '65 VW bus and a copy of John Muir's idiot guide. I was forever adjusting the points, and checking the gap on the valves, etc. I knew my way around the VW engine almost as well as I know my way around a bicycle. I have to say, I'm not too happy with the computerization of things. A couple of years ago, I bought a new Vespa, and it runs well, but there's not much I can do with it except change the oil.

Mr. Crawford also notes how the Sear's catalogue used to have blown-up pictures of appliances with all the parts labeled and numbered so you could buy replacement parts easily.

It had never really occurred to me how much we had shifted to a disposable culture. Is computerization partially to blame for that? I've always loved Ivan Illich's concept of "convivial technology" - that the items we use in our every day life should be easily repaired by us, or at least by someone in the community. Part of my desire for simplicity is to reach that level of both competence in repairing what I have and ownership of things that are easily repaired. I think that's why I have such a schizophrenic relationship with my computer, cell phone, and iPod. Yes, I can replace memory and maybe even swap out a bad hard drive, (though everything is so delicate now that I use a laptop), but there's a level of complexity that is beyond my reckoning so to speak, and it's crept into so much of what we use. Maybe in some ways it lasts longer. I don't have to replace the points in my vehicles, but my grasp of things leaves me with a more abstracted relationship to the material items I rely on. Could I fix my manual typewriter if something went wrong? Or my Timex automatic watch? Of course not, but there's something reassuring about those things.

On the other hand, so many things are thrown out, given away, and land in thrift stores, that it is more costly and time consuming to make things or repair things. Sometimes I think about learning how to make clothing. I have a sewing machine. It seems like it would be a fun exercise in self-reliance. However, when I can get a shopping bag worth of shirts for $5 when there's a sale at the Hospice Thrift Store, and it would cost me who knows how much to make my own shirt, (and also given that if I DID make a shirt, it probably would LOOK like a shirt I made), where's the impetus to learn that skill? (Our latest big thrift store find was a barely used, Kitchenaid Professional mixer for $10).

I feel, in some ways, that I'm missing something. Part of my image of being a father is having a workshop with the malfunctioning whatevers dissassembled on a bench. I want that kind of relationship to the things in my life. But it seems to have evaporated from the culture to a degree. (And admittedly, my father spent all his time on the golf course, in a fishing boat, or in a deer stand. I don't recall his fixing anything. That was always my mother's domain).

[early morning]

+1 to pcooley! I feel much the same way. We used to be avid DYSers but now there's so much we can't do..... Awesome score on the Kichenaide, BTW. We received one as a wedding gift 38 yrs ago and it's going strong with only a few minor repairs. If you need parts, help, etc you most likely CAN fix it yourself- this is a wonderful site for Kitchenaide and many other small appliance parts and service manuals: http://www.mendingshed.com/

[pinkytoe]

One of the main things I love about technology is that we can easily look up how to do things. And get ideas about how to be more resourceful. There do seem to be a lot more people who have absolutely no interest or ability to maintain their own homes, machines and devices. But there is also a subculture who are very much into DIY endeavors. I was taught to sew and tailor when young but as mentioned, it is so much cheaper to just buy something these days.

[pinkytoe]

This reminds me...isn't there some list of things that everyone should know. Do you know what I am referring to? If so, please post.

[Dhiana]

+1 pcooley's post! I have a couple of out dead electronics, macbook, walkman, etc that I am using those exploded charts to create a gallery installation. Too often it's a mystery what's inside because we aren't supposed to do anything that might void the warranty.
I want to expose this wastefulness inside and out. Your post really helped me solidify what I have been thinking regarding my message to the viewers.

[SteveinMN]

+1 pcooley's post! I have a couple of out dead electronics, macbook, walkman, etc that I am using those exploded charts to create a gallery installation. Too often it's a mystery what's inside because we aren't supposed to do anything that might void the warranty.
I want to expose this wastefulness inside and out. Your post really helped me solidify what I have been thinking regarding my message to the viewers.
Dhiana, have you seen the iFixit Web site? This (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Device/MacBook_Pro_15%22_Unibody_Late_2008_and_Early_2009 ) is the page I used to fix DW's laptop, which is seven years old now and still working for my mom. Good stuff, and if that's what you have in mind, a very valuable service.

The lack of repairability, however, is part of why goods have become so inexpensive. Those KitchenAid and Sunbeam kitchen mixers that wear like tanks -- they cost a lot of money back in the day -- more than they cost today, when adjusted for inflation. Today, it's easier (therefore, cheaper) to mount a part to, say, a mixer body with a plastic prong that is welded solid rather than use a screw and either a metal sleeve or a lock washer. It's certainly not easier to repair, though.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I remember reading an article recently in USA Today to the effect that in new cars, if you break a headlight, it can cost several hundred dollars to replace due to computerization. Ditto for rear view mirrors. My first reaction after reading this article was a feeling of deep relief that I don't own a car. Rob

[ToomuchStuff]

This reminds me...isn't there some list of things that everyone should know. Do you know what I am referring to? If so, please post.
I think your thinking of the Robert Heinlein quote: “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Of course there are modern versions as well.

pcooley, I started that book a while back (then left it at a relatives). I need to get further into it before judging it, because the little I read, seemed like it was talking down to me at first. (that is what family is for/good at) But I did get a chuckle out of the second book mentioned and now I may know who to ask VW questions to. (my spring project is a 71 super). But car skill sets have definitely changed. Some things have become easier, some harder, and some it will even depend on the vehicle (changing a serpentine belt, instead of a v belt for example). While one isn't changing points or adjusting dwell, one needs to have a better grasp of electrical and better tools, then just a test light, now. There are also issues with some of the electronics, as soldering and desoldering should be a more normal skill now (and thanks to things like the Raspberry PI, kids are getting more into that), however finding components now is harder (Radio Shack's, we are not stuck in the 80's is a good example of a bad thing for parts or electronic stuff, now)

Gimme...., link to the article or is there a date and section? The reason I ask is so much of the car is designed, for the assembly line, and not for the repair. It is all about speed of manufacture first, then they take a car, and disassemble it, to make the repair manual and special tools and then do a redesign. I think your headlight story is probably due to that. I know of a few cars, where that wasn't a consideration, until they started replacing them and realized they had to disassemble the front clip, because there was no way to get the headlights off, to change the bulb. I've had this discussion before with some of our local plants higher ups, because in my view, it, besides the exotic materials and such, helps drive the costs up.

[Dhiana]

I did do a lot of research on the possibility of saving my 5 year old macbook, but a tsunami of Dt. Cola is pretty much the end of most any laptop =(

Such stupid preventable mistake. My new one has a lovely keyboard cover :)