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There is a current series of NY Times essays called 54 Drawers written by a woman who has to figure out how to deal with her father's possessions after his death. The most recent is about the grueling task of going through his 54 file drawers and deciding what to toss and/or save. I had to do the same for both of my parents when I was 35 so it brings back all those memories of things like finding the boxes of love letters my father had kept from his long-time mistress. At a young age, I learned to accept that everything is temporary. Unless one is famous, all will be forgotten in a few generations, ie we take ourselves much too seriously sometimes. It reminds me too that having an only child...I need to get busy with cleaning out stuff, especially papers. There are things I would not want her to have to deal with...
catherine
2-20-14, 10:39am
I learned to accept that everything is temporary. Unless one is famous, all will be forgotten in a few generations, ie we take ourselves much too seriously sometimes.
So true.. I tend to "hoard" cards and letters, realizing they are irreplaceable. Irreplaceable AND important? Probably not... just to me. I'm trying to let some of that stuff go--realizing that there's a lot of self-importance and ego-identification caught up on those attachments.
I do have things of my great-aunt's that I don't want to throw out. As I've posted here, my summers with my great-aunt were the best times of my life. She was a wonderful woman, and a wonderful role model. I started going to her beach house when I was about 7--she was 78 at that point, and we had a wonderful relationship until she died at age 92. She was married to a CT Supreme Court judge, and had the very traditional, Victorian marriage. After women got the vote, she voted the same as her husband did, because she believed that to be her "wifely duty." (Imagine the all the new female voters who did the same!).
She tried for 9 years to have a baby--a difficulty for her because she only had one ovary. She finally conceived and had a son, who subsequently died of pneumonia at age 3. I can't imagine the blow that was. She would have been an amazing mother--because she was an amazing surrogate mother to me. So I keep her stuff and I try to keep her memory alive, because right now, I'm the only person who can do it, and she deserves the dignity of having her memory revered. That's why I can't get rid of the few artifacts of her life that I have left.
goldensmom
2-20-14, 6:43pm
I had to deal with my parents estate after their deaths, legal and otherwise and that is one reason that I am a minimalist. I don't want to burden another with my stuff and stuff doesn't mean that much to me anyway. I advise my friends, based on my experience, take care of your stuff and don't leave it to your children to deal with. My mother-in-law is a borderline hoarder and, thankfully, I will not have to deal with any of it but I will suggest a roll-off dumpster.
I had to deal with my parents estate after their deaths, legal and otherwise and that is one reason that I am a minimalist. I don't want to burden another with my stuff and stuff doesn't mean that much to me anyway. I advise my friends, based on my experience, take care of your stuff and don't leave it to your children to deal with. My mother-in-law is a borderline hoarder and, thankfully, I will not have to deal with any of it but I will suggest a roll-off dumpster.
I remember my MIL saying to me anxiously, "What's going to happen to my Royal Doultons when I'm gone??" Well, they are still sitting at BIL's house, three years after her death, and he is a bit overwhelmed about what to do with the figurines and the crystal and the Hummel's and the china... Frankly, I am, too. Perhaps we need to get someone in who will buy it in one lot. But what a hassle.
I agree with you--I do NOT want to burden my kids with my crappola. I don't even want to be burdened with it. It's been great to have a slow period work-wise because I really have managed to clean out quite a bit of stuff, but it's also shown me how much there is left to get rid of. I'd love to be like my mom, dying with nothing.
Unless one is famous, all will be forgotten in a few generations, ie we take ourselves much too seriously sometimes.
This is unfortunately so true. The Medias give so much airplay on the rich and famous who die but there are so many average Joes and Janes who have had amazing lives and that everyone should get to learn about like Catherine's great-aunt above.
Your post is really moving Catherine and reminds me that I would have like to get to know some family members a lot more before they passed away. I'm sure your great-aunt was an amazing woman.
Whenever I think about starting though, I get queazy. The china cabinet that is stuffed with "smalls" from my antiquing days...the old yearbooks...the shoes I paid way too much for that hurt my feet to wear. So much CRAP!!
I lost everything in a house fire 21 years ago. Most liberating! And now, I have more stuff than ever, though I no longer save paper... Oy vey!
So the idea is that we should live as an ascetic, so as not to burden the people who are inheriting the wads of money we didn't spend while we were alive? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/icq/rofl.gif
So the idea is that we should live as an ascetic, so as not to burden the people who are inheriting the wads of money we didn't spend while we were alive? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/icq/rofl.gif
Well, that depends on whether or not you consider getting rid of your stuff self-denial or liberation. To me, thinking about my kids having to deal with my stuff is motivation for me to get to the place I would like to be.
I will keep the things that I use or that bring me happiness right now - some bring joy just by looking at them. If I keep a family heirloom, it will be labeled so heirs know what the heck it is and who it came from at least. I see it as a very liberating experience because many of these things represent a part of life I would just as soon forget.
iris lilies
2-22-14, 12:47am
You know, it's easy enough to get rid of "stuff" if you (the generic you) do not focus on how much $ you get for it. The younger generation does not care for Victoriana. and that is ok.
Several years ago I started dumping the stuff that I had been carting around for years, childhood stuff, because I wanted it placed in hands that would want it. I cared little about how much $ I got for it.
It is easy to get rid of stuff, goldensmom has the right idea: a huge dumpster is appropriate for much of it.
I also don't want to burden myself or anyone else with my stuff. For papers and books, my ideal is to die with only my will and the book I have about how to deal with a will, period. And to have that be all the paper stuff I have. I have one cloth bag the size of paper bag with my papers, want to pare it down to the above.One small shelf of books and DVDs, want to pare that down too.
Going through all DH's stuff over the past year which will continue for the next year sorting through his tools and trying to figure what everything was used for. We had the chance to sort through and move in 2008 but jointly decided that we were not ready. Now I wish that we had done so.
My goal is to get everything down to what would fit in a one-BR apartment and doing it in waves going over and over and choosing, donating/discarding and then some more. I even went through my pantry and took some items out of it that needed discarding.
Teacher Terry
2-22-14, 6:58pm
When my Mom was dying she got out her photo albums and asked us all to take out the pics we wanted. We did and then she walked out to the garbage outside and dumped them in. I was shocked actually. I said something like is that what a life comes down to and she said I didn't want it to be a burden for you kids. She also said to keep what we wanted & then sell the rest. She was an amazing woman!
When my Mom was dying she got out her photo albums and asked us all to take out the pics we wanted. We did and then she walked out to the garbage outside and dumped them in. I was shocked actually. I said something like is that what a life comes down to and she said I didn't want it to be a burden for you kids. She also said to keep what we wanted & then sell the rest. She was an amazing woman!
She does sound amazing.. Photos are one of the things I find difficult to let go of because of this crazy need to hold onto moments in time.. I've gotten much better. One of the things that helped was going to antique shops and seeing all the anonymous sepia-colored pictures of people who weren't identified in the photo. Who were they? And who cared? It also helps to recall what I heard once about the Native American view of photos--that they are to be feared because they are stealing your soul. Sometimes we are so caught up in the picture that we actually lose the moment. But I still really love old photos. So, another thing I'm doing is uploading the best old photos to ancestry.com. Maybe that will free me to dispose of them.
Teacher Terry
2-22-14, 7:18pm
The photos of people in antique shops we call "Instant Ancestors." I think part of the problem too is that often you don't know many of the people in the photos. I think it is a good idea to upload them. I am keeping mine for now because I enjoy looking at them but if I am able to know when I am leaving will probably do what my Mom did. Or a good friend of mine knew she was dying so she was making an album for each of her sons. Unfortunately, she did not finish but her good friends knew this was important so they came over the last few weeks of her life and worked on them until they were done.
iris lilies
2-22-14, 7:55pm
My mother had the typical boxes of unlabeled family photos. I took them home and pitched tons of them, the very bad ones. I copied the few great ones of the ancient ancestors, distributed copies to all children of cousins, and I am done. I disposed of them responsibly, sending the originals to the eldest child of the eldest cousin. That project sat undone for probably 2 years and I dreaded it, but once I got into it, it was done within 6 weeks.
Sure, DH and I have boatloads of photos in albums, but there is nothing there that cannot be tossed in the dumpster, we have no ancient family photos that should be preserved for the next generations. PErhaps I'll send the youngsters a couple photos of ourselves before I die, then the rest can easily be tossed.
the Native American view of photos--that they are to be feared because they are stealing your soul.
We were in Taos once and DH was snapping photos at the pueblo when an old Indian woman came running at him with a broom accusing him of such. We have never forgotten that unexpected moment.
We were in Taos once and DH was snapping photos at the pueblo when an old Indian woman came running at him with a broom accusing him of such. We have never forgotten that unexpected moment.
That happened to me in the Bahamas and a local resident advised me very gently why they were upset so I apologized and have never taken such photos without asking permission again.
When my Momma got sick, and a few years later died, my husband and I (I'm her only child) had to deal with all of her things. She wasn't a hoarder, a normal two-bedroom apartment. She was a bookkeeper. She kept all of her papers very well organized, but still, lots of papers.
I think this was the beginning of our minimalist lifestyle. The kids were flying the coop, two to the Army, one to college, so all their stuff was boxed up in the basement. Then all my Momma's stuff came in. On top of everything we already had. It was overwhelming, wall to wall boxes, never finding the box I was looking for, everything was a mess. Like everything you might ever purchase in your lifetime, but it was all in your house right now!
I got very serious about "stuff". It had to have a very good reason to stay. Being cool or a reminder of that summer at the beach wasn't good enough. Once I started letting go of things, the easier it became. Then I found that the more space I cleared, the more at ease I was in that space.
Anything that would fit on the scanner bed got scanned. Then shredded. Then, seeing what I was leaving for our kids, I got busy on our stuff, scanning, shredding. We now have all our papers that we need (titles, registrations, etc.) in a plastic file box, everything else is scanned then shredded. Once scanned everything is automatically uploaded to a cloud, pictures go to Picasa. All the kids have access to everything via their own computers, no more photo albums.
As for non-scannable stuff, figurines, vases, jewelry; things not in use get boxed up for 6 months (we sort in spring and fall), then if it wasn't used or needed it goes away (second hand stores, given away, trash). I'm usually pretty good about the 6 month rule (I'm more ruthless about sentimental things than my husband), but I did hang on to Momma's stuff for a year or more. Some boxes are labeled for the kids to sort through next time they are here.
I don't have much of my Momma's stuff anymore, but her stuff has changed me, and that change is carrying over to our kids. I live differently now, I question more, I look more at me than at the things I surround myself with.
I love your story, Bacawind.. just one question to you, and to everyone who relies on the Cloud and other digital systems: Are you ever afraid that the Cloud will cease to exist? What if there's a monumental change: war, government overthrow, technology innovations etc. and your stuff will be lost literally up in the clouds??
Did you consider that as a risk? That's my only issue with doing the same. I like the idea that there are some items that I can still touch.
Otherwise, I love how you attacked your stuff. Very inspiring!!
new2oregon
2-23-14, 1:12pm
Bacawind, I like the idea of scanning the photos and uploading so the family can share. I find that the more simple I make my life now the better I like it. When my Father died he had so much stuff. People who lived through the great depression held on to stuff after.
I love your story, Bacawind.. just one question to you, and to everyone who relies on the Cloud and other digital systems: Are you ever afraid that the Cloud will cease to exist? What if there's a monumental change: war, government overthrow, technology innovations etc. and your stuff will be lost literally up in the clouds??
Did you consider that as a risk? That's my only issue with doing the same. I like the idea that there are some items that I can still touch.
Otherwise, I love how you attacked your stuff. Very inspiring!!
My divorce kind of went like losing a relative - having someone who was very disorganized and bordering on being a hoarder moving out - and leaving the mess behind. She's since created a whole new mess where she is living.
It can be tricky balancing risk and benefit. I found it much easier looking at individual things or small groups than looking at the "stuff" as a whole - not thinking about what I need to keep, so much as what I could get rid of. It was daunting to start, but most of it was just junk. And it got easier as more and more junk was removed from the "stuff", realizing I didn't need to keep it.
For stuff in up in the cloud - it's very unlikely something would happen without warning to remove it, giving someone time to move to another cloud or download to local media.
Perhaps the cloud is a good representation of how ephemeral everything is anyway. At some point, everything changes shape or disappears. As far as going through things, I am thinking categories too so first step will be a list - books, jewelry, knick-knacks, photos, etc. One thing at a time.
ApatheticNoMore
2-23-14, 1:47pm
I don't think that cloud will disappear, it will probably be kept forever in some NSA database (immortality!). I wouldn't of course trust the cloud with any privacy.
No excuse me I must clean my house out of some morbid fascination (oh wait, I don't even have any kids what the heck do I care if this place is a mess when I'm dead. After me the deluge .... of clutter).
I did hesitate on using a cloud. I should have mentioned, all my data goes to an external hard drive, then I have a program that uploads whatever file I tell it to, when I tell it to. It was hard to find a program that would upload off an external. The plan is, in case of emergency, grab the external. I don't keep anything on the computers, it's all on externals, then to a cloud.
Another thought I had is that technology keeps getting better. Maybe I should save everythings hard copy because in a decade, scanners will be better, and it won't be so much like a copy of a copy. I decided that wouldn't work, just too much stuff. And we live in a 100 year old house. Mice live here too and they will destroy anything that stands still long enough. So that was another reason to not have the only copy of something. I felt it was better to share it all with the kids now, even if the quality suffers some, than to wait till I'm dead and they are going through all the photos, what would be left of them anyway. And I was my Momma's only kid, I didn't have anyone to fight with. Well, except myself. I could just see me having to come back from the dead to fuss at the kids to go to their rooms for fighting with each other!
The NSA issues irritate me. Not because I'm a really interesting person to spy on, it's just the principle. But yes, if something goes wrong, I can always ask my Big Brother for a copy. lol
But if a cloud falls (lol) I think like Pinkytoe said, nothing lasts forever. Maybe that's some of what makes things so special.
I was a CNA from many years, in a Long Term Care and Alzheimer's Unit, in a rural area. Lots of our residents remembered the dust bowl. I've been with many people as they passed away. It hit me each time, everything that resident had told me about, it's done, over. Their story will never again be told except by a third party. I'm okay with things passing, people, pictures, etc. It happens, it's life.
When my ex-husband and I divorced, the court orders were that he was to give me the family photo albums. He said later (not to the judge) that they were all ruined by water damage. It wasn't for me that I wanted them, it was the kids childhood. Anyway, when I was taking all those pictures when the kids were little, I sent the rolls of film (long time ago) to my Momma, she'd develop them and get 2 sets, and send one set to me, and she kept a set. Thankfully!!! She had all those supposed "water damaged" photos.
I guess from the divorce ordeal, I found it important to me to scan and back-up. So I guess I'm not completely comfortable with losing everything.
I figure sorting through, minimalizing, decluttering, is very individual, and dependent on each persons views and life experiences. I had to wait till I was ready. I worried I was going to regret things I parted with, but so far I haven't been.
I had a suitcase packed with dress clothes that I seldom wore, but I wanted in case I needed them. It seems I have lost them. I must have mixed them up and gotten rid of them by accident. I was upset about it, but now, it's been several years ago, and I still haven't needed anything out of that suitcase. Kind of funny, I would still be fretting about the mice trying to get into that suitcase, and it turns out I don't even need it! When I put it all together, it was kind of epiphany-ish. That suitcase, where ever it is, doesn't own me anymore.
shadowmoss
2-24-14, 7:00am
For digital items that don't contain personally identifiable information I use Evernote (which keeps a copy in the cloud as well as on as many computers as you link to it), a copy of the hard drive of the computer, and a copy on an external drive. I have backup images of each computer and the next step in the plan is to keep an external drive with a copy of the backup images in a safety deposit box off-site. Can you tell I work in IT and have to think about disaster planning? :) I think about 'what if my home burned to the ground while I'm on vacation? What would I lose, and what can I do to not loose what I need to keep?' For identifying info I encrypt it with TruCrypt and save it to the cloud in another application. I still have so much paper! It is this next year's project to get rid of most of it as it has been in storage for at least 5 years and hasn't been needed in that time.
Another good step to decluttering all the 'stuff' for me is to try to inventory it. A combination of the pain of having to write it all down (and take pictures of the more expensive stuff), combined with an in my face list of just how much there is helps to avoid the idea that I could even need any more of anything! This will help in the above situation of losing everything as I'd have a list of just what is lost to give the insurance company, as well as a list to look over to decide just what I'd need to replace and what I could live without.
The above is a work in progress for me. However, I'm down to a fraction of the amount of stuff I had when I first started coming here back around 10 or so years ago. Still too much...
simplelife4me
3-1-14, 9:08pm
Dang that is alot. I only have two pair.
Very worthwhile thread, I have enjoyed reading all your stories and the different perspectives on what to save/not save and why. I need this as I work my way through my total house declutter mission. Thanks everyone.
This is a great thread. I feel like printing it out for my husband, the sentimental greeting card hoarder.
It also makes me smile as I recall my young daughter years ago asking me, "Mom, when you die, can I have your makeup?"
Bacawind, you tell stories very well and they make your point. I hope you keep writing on these boards.
I can relate to this thread after losing my mom and my BIL within 6 weeks of each other.
My mom was what I called the organized hoarder. She had 1 of everything in every style, color with matching purse, shoes and jewelry. The first week alone we pulled out 17 bins of shoes and barely made a dent. The hardest part was having to get my dad out of the house in order to do it. He would have freaked if he had truly seen all the stuff she had. In 3 hours, we had made enough of a dent but it took 6 more weeks of cleaning everyday to get it situated. This made me come home and start cleaning and organizing.
My BIL had a home that he had paths through. We found my inlaws entire house contents from when they passed away 25 years ago. The sheets were still literally on the twin mattresses that he and his 2 brothers had. It was insane. Then we found boxes and boxes of paper, all having to be gone through. So far, we have recovered multiple insurance policies and bank accounts. The downside is we also found out he had a second secret girlfriend and was basically living 2 lives. It was so shocking to my husband and his brother, they are having a hard time dealing with it.
This has really made me think about stuff. I don't want to burden my son. I have 1 bin with a few items from his childhood. If he wants it down the road, then so be it. If not, out it will go. I also have 1 large bin with pictures, military items and then we have paperwork in the safe. I am diligent about keeping the paperwork trimmed down and in order as best I can.
When I resigned, I received a few nice things from co workers along with cards. After typing all of this, I am going to be grateful for receiving such items and then donate them. The cards are kept in my memory of people caring but will be thrown out.
At this point, stuff is just stuff.
What a chore that lot must have been, GreenMama. I would hate to leave such a predicament for the ones I leave behind. But also I have now reached a point where I am beyond wanting to keep all those reminders of my past life even for myself. As you say, stuff is just stuff. It's a lot of work to get rid of, so many decisions that should have been made long ago. I will try to follow your example and be grateful for the gifts without needing to keep every card as a reminder.
One of my (short) list of goals for my life is to leave the simplest situation for executors to deal with.
One of my (short) list of goals for my life is to leave the simplest situation for executors to deal with.
Oh. So how are you going about this one? Very interested to know.
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