What would you do with food stamps, cash benefits, Medicaid and so on?
for food stamps I advocate limiting what they could be used for. I know people would disagree with this, but items like soda, cookies and candy no way.
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What would you do with food stamps, cash benefits, Medicaid and so on?
for food stamps I advocate limiting what they could be used for. I know people would disagree with this, but items like soda, cookies and candy no way.
I would eliminate Medicaid and institute Medicare for all.
First I would say that anyone who wants specific input on how welfare benefits are used should be able to answer some related questions like,
What is the % of the state and federal budget that is actually spent on this type of assistance?
What is the % of people using these services who are minors?
What is the availability of childcare services for parents who are under work requirements to receive some of these benefits?
Have you known or ever spoken with anyone who has used these services and asked their experience?
and finally, I'd have that person and their family go on a SNAP food budget for 30 days to see how they fare; or as alternative, they could find out how many months/years the waiting list is for Section 8 housing. After this knowledge and first-hand experience they would be able to make an informed decision.
you didn't answer my question. Drinking soda, candy and cookies is not going to help anyone on welfare benefits. In case you have not noticed there is a war on public assistance by our current leaders. If you had a hand in reforming it what would you do to help people make the best of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainey
Ps I grew up in foster care so I know what it is like to have nothing.
Disclaimer...I have no idea what it is to live on SNAP and Medicaid. We were poor when I was a kid but I didn't know that until I was an adult. There was always food to eat thanks to living on a farm and a creative Mom. She always made our clothes (for the girls) and I didn't envy my friends store bought clothes.
I get frustrated when a person using SNAP has cash for cigarettes and alcohol. I get frustrated at a shopping cart full of box meals, bags of chips and sugary cereals and not a fruit or vegetable in sight.
I am blessed with a wonderful career and a wage that pays taxes for these programs and I am most willing to do my part.
I don't know what the answers are. I have no intention of these programs stopping but obviously I would like to see change.
What spurred my question is we are at an out of state sporting tournament of adults. someone had an awful headache and could not find ibuprophin. I volunteered to go over to the grocery store,across the street. I got several requests to pick up stuff. Like bananas, oranges and nuts because the games were running late.
So so I go to the store and it is not in a nice neighborhood, but it was a nice store. It was racially mixed ofcaucasian, Asian, African American and hispanics. I get my stuff and stand in line. At the next register is a woman who,has a cart of cheap sugar laden junk. She checks out and the cashier says there is not enough money on her card. She whips out her phone and is screaming at someone about they did not give her right benefits. She starts swearing and the person on the other line hangs up. Well she stomps out of the store. Then three of the men in front of me are buying a soda, a candy bar and a small bag of chips respectively. They were using a card to get cash back and had to make a purchase. I know you cannot do this with snap benefits, it has to be cash benefits (welfare).
So so I look around and think what in the hell are we doing. How are we helping people? If you had a very limited amount of money how can you buy crap with it. How is that helping anyone?
I have tried to understand how Trump got elected, and I think this is one of them. When people go to work and struggle to pay their bills and see others getting stuff for not working (even when justified) I think it makes people very upset. There are a lot of generalizations of course but seeing this this morning really made me see a different side of things and why people are so mad enough to believe the promises of Trump. I can see these programs drastically cut just because of incidents like this have influenced the American people.
Whether we we like it or not, welfare reform is coming. Medical insurance changes are coming, particularly deep Medicaid cuts. So my question is, what can be done to make these necessary programs better.
Based on my knowledge experiences, this would probably look more like a treatise then a post.
This is a long, complicated subject, that deals not just with finances, but values, beliefs, judgement, experiences, etc.
i would eliminate those programs, and switch over to a universal basic income setup.
I agree with bae.
Me, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammy
What does that mean Bae? And what does that look like?Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
I have always felt there should be nutritional value set for the foods purchased. On my soap box, I remember never being able to buy chips, candy or any not dinner items when we lived on Min Wage in 1980. I had a friend who would buy one candy bar a week and cut it in 7 sections so each day had a treat. Than again when the postal carriers sent the list of items they would like to see this year for the donations on it was Olive Oil, we all joked in our neighborhood that it was not too long ago that was luxury item, so I just do not know anymore.
Once I remember we had a posting about this and I mentioned why Chips and Pop at food banks, I got slammed I think because these made the people feel less like they were in need and the kids felt good getting these items. SO I guess the coin can be flipped a few ways?
I completely agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
In the vain of a number of posts here - would the government tailor what the universal basic income can buy so people are forced to make the "right" choices?Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
No, of course not, for many reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by creaker
and if they buy steak and lobster the first week, and run out of money the rest of the month, so be it.
I have been assured again and again here and elsewhere that poor people will marshall their resources so as to feed their family, pay the rent, and buy the shoes. There will be no buying of street drugs or gambling with the unversal income, the children will be fed and clothed.
so now that we have solved that, its only the pesky details to work out such as how much to give each person. Oh, yeah, and whete that money comes from.
I think about this a lot too and don't know the answer. As long as the big food corps have lobbyists, sugary junk food will be allowed, right? I read that the number of people on SSI/disability has soared in recent years since welfare as it was known was downsized. There are parts of the country where the majority of people are receiving disability checks. In that way, the expense is shifted to the government rather than the state. What I always wonder is why there are so many unmotivated souls out there?
I'm very wary of making value judgments vis-a-vis food. What the government deems "nutritious"--like skim milk and corn flakes--is decidedly not, IMO. If sugary processed foods are prohibited, who's to say that butter and bacon won't be? (OMG, it's the death fats! ;) ) Poor people are presumably adults, and can make those decisions for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere
Some sort of universal income is an appealing thought. I can see some irresponsible parents squandering the income money on drugs, alcohol or other useless or harmful trivia at the expense of the children. Whether the existing social welfare programs provide more encouragement to use the benefits for health care, nutritional food, education, or other general welfare for children depending on their recipient parents could probably be up for debate.
Path of least resistance?Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkytoe
You wonder why people are unmotivated to work endlessly at two or three Wal-Mart/Uber type jobs with few benefits, no union representation, and not a chance in hell of ever being able to get ahead or buy a house or pay for their medical care? It seems to me that for vast swaths of the working class, it's a miracle that there is any motivation at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkytoe
Amen, Jane.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
When it was mandated that employers provide medical coverage there was a huge uproar. As I said, I am trying to listen to people who felt there was enough of a need for change that a candidate like trump is our president. What is the role of the federal government in mandating things like minimum wage, providing healthcare, and schools for example. I doubt many can argue the value of education but the question remains what is necessary for the government to mandate and/ or provide and how is it all paid for. Also, I cannot envision how universal basic income will be established and how it will solve the problems we have now. If people use their limited income now to buy cigarettes and soda now ( both have no positive value to meeting basic needs) how will that change? Will more people be able to buy houses? Is that even a right? Or is a two room apartment basic shelter for a family. Should free school lunch be eliminated with basic income?Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
With the current crew in office I hold little hope for any welfare type benefits to survive as they exist now.
Here's one reform: In polygamist towns like Colorado City it is common for the "wives" (wives in name only, not legally married) to claim they are single parents and in need of SNAP and other benefits. They are awarded these benefits which then allows the patriarchs to continue these fake marriages and continue reproduction of 10, 20 or 30 children per adult male. You the taxpayer are generously supporting all of this. Yet any crackdown is seen as being anti-religious. That's a reform I see that needs to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by creaker
Richard Nixon attempted a universal income bill back in the seventies. It was defeated mainly by Democrats who considered the amount insufficient and who were uncomfortable with the no-strings-attached aspect.
If you see making people eat their vegetables as the proper role of government, then a universal basic income approach probably won't work for you.
There may not be a single reason, but a lot of people are 2nd or 3rd generation welfare dependent and it has become their social norm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkytoe
DittoQuote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
it's not going to help anyone not on welfare benefits either truly, so at that point it is probably more consistent to argue for a sugar tax or something (remember the soda tax), to get a much larger part of the population with disincentives to consuming those things.Quote:
Drinking soda, candy and cookies is not going to help anyone on welfare benefits.
Anyone read Hand to Mouth by Linda Terindo? Good first person read on being poor in the USA. I think a living wage woul d go along way to improving life for low income people.
I think if a bunch of rich, old white men smoking cigars behind closed doors in Washington D.C. had dreamed up a plan to make a huge class of people dependent on them, with such a victim mentality that they would never pose a threat to the status quo, they couldn't come up with a better plan that the welfare state. After a generation or two of believing that the responsibility for housing, food, health care, and other basic human necessities can be provided only by the government, there is no incentive to rise above this basic level. The children of the welfare state have an extremely difficult time breaking out of the cycle...they see no incentive. That's why I'd like to see the system re-worked in such a way that recipients are rewarded for working, with affordable day care, without getting food stamps or Medicaid cut if they work extra hours and make more money. And, re: restricting certain foods you can buy on food stamps: if WIC can restrict certain foods, why is that any different?
If parents spend their stipend on cigarettes, drugs and booze, what happens to the kids?Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Intersting theory. People like me would want more stuff and a nice bank account so I would work for it. Unknown how many people would feel like me. Probably most of the people here.Quote:
Originally Posted by befree
that sounds terrible. Why I hate organized religion. Have as many kids as you want if you are willing to support them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lainey
It seems to me like there could be a match between the underemployed and infrastructure improvement, maybe a little like the CCC. I"m sure there are plenty of people on the government gravy train, but plenty of others who would just like a decent respectable job and maybe learn some usable trade skills.
I help at the food bank. One source of our food is food donated by grocery stores. The grocery stores get a government write off for the food. The margin on donuts and bread is very high. We get tons of donated "day old" baked goods. Sometimes the "day old" baked goods are a week old - the stores first try to sell them on their discount racks. Sometimes they have started to go moldy, sometimes they are smashed or the wrappers are torn. Many many unsold cakes and stale donuts. We have to sign for the full number or we get nothing.
we get very little produce. The margin on produce us very thin and I guess the government is stingy with it's "per pound" credit. Usually stores keep the produce until it is nearly compost. Then people don't take it. If you are already dealing with the challenges of poverty, you do not have the energy to cut the small usable piece off of 27 green peppers in order to cook food.
one of the other volunteers made me angry last week. He's solid suburban middle class. Plays golf regularly, good church going fellow. We close at 7. A man in a three tone (plus rust and primer) sedan with taped seats arrived at 7:02 to get food for a family of three. He was dirty not in the "unwashed" sense, but in the "I have been doing physical labor that involves dirt and grease" sense. We went back inside to fill his order. And after he left, this volunteer (who is sometimes late for his shift) shook his head in disgust and said "you give away free food and people can't even be bothered to get here on time to get it."
I thought, "you've never wanted for anything in your life, have you?"
we had a woman come in who was riding with a friend. They had been applying for jobs all day. The woman said she was trying to figure out how she was going to feed her kids over the summer, and I told her about the library lunch program. She said that sounded really nice, but she doesn't have a car and can't drive. There is no public transportation out here, so those jobs are non-starters. Even if she gets one, she will only be able to show up if her friend is at the same place, on the same schedule, and not sick.
i have lived in areas where all the kids went to church camp in the summer because it was free, the bus came through their neighborhood and picked them up and returned them, and camp included food. I once expressed surprise that a woman I knew had sent her child to a particular preschool. She said "they had an opening. Right now, I would send him to jack the ripper's preschool if they had an opening."
so, in my community, I would buy the library a bus and gasoline (or better, an electric bus and increase funding for their electric bill) I would create a better source and distribution system for fresh produce. the bigger the system, the more it is going to malfunction.
You raise two good points..Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
1) Yes, people who have never walked in the other's shoes sometimes find it hard to empathize or understand. That's why often the poor are the most generous. I was meeting my DD for lunch yesterday, as she was driving from a photo shoot in Brooklyn back up to Burlington. When she was waiting to get through the tunnel, a homeless guy was weaving through the cars that were waiting in line. My daughter's window was open so she was a great target.
A man approached her and started talking to her, and asked if he could sing her a song, and she let him. Then she said, are you looking for money? And he said, "yes, miss anything you might want to give me!" So she got her wallet out and started fumbling for some money--she had no bills, and so she opened up her change purse and started to pull out the last few coins there.
When he saw her fumbling for the change, he said, "No, miss! I don't want to take your last money! I'll go ask someone else." And he left.
Point two about the local efforts: I agree there as well. Assessing the local needs and addressing those is probably the best way to go. How that breaks out on a federal level, I'm not sure. When I worked at a food bank, it was through the church. We would pick up the food from a county distribution warehouse and then bring it to the church, where the surrounding community could come and take it. But frankly, I don't think we got much produce either. I think the answer to that is community gardens. We have several in New Brunswick.
The other side of that is what if all you have is food stamps and your kid really needs a winter coat?Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere
Please, this is not a concern. Many voices here and elsewhere say this wont take place. Yes, color me skeptical, but there it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere
Look iris lilies, any time you turn food stamps into drug or beer money, you are going to take a hit on the exchange rate. Cash leaves more for food.
That's true, my brother-in-law buys EBT card balances for <50 cents on the dollar or sometimes with just a case of beer. If his sellers received cash from the government rather than the EBT credits, they could afford more beer as they receive food handouts from extended family and dumpster diving. BIL is then able to use the majority of his $1600 per month disability benefit (for back pain that doesn't exist) for heroin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
Our welfare state funds a thriving black market economy.