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Watching live coverage of Notre Dame cathedral in Paris as it burns. Not sure how the fire started but the roof has now collapsed and the fire is still spreading.
Parts of the building are nearly a thousand years old and it hurts me to watch such a beautiful and historic structure be destroyed in real time.
Shocking. Was there many years ago. Just heard one of the rose windows was destroyed. I had forgotten how old it was - truly a miracle it has lasted so long. I am in awe that a building this massive and beautiful was constructed so many years ago - without the modern building methods. Lets pray the fire is extinguished before total destruction.
I know!!! This is horrible. What a tragedy. A gorgeous cathedral dating back to the 12th century... :(
Two words: Flying ButtressQuote:
Originally Posted by Greg44
A marvel of architectural innovation 800 years ago and effective enough to last this long.
I've had the good fortune of touring the cathedral on each of my 3 visits to the city. I was hoping for another opportunity at some point since I seemed to appreciate it more with each previous visit. The last time we were there we had the opportunity to explore an active archaeological dig underneath the cathedral where the remains of an older Roman structure existed.
We were just there in January and it was magnificent. I would rather tour the cathedral than most any other monument.
Wow, that was recent.Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetana3
I have not been to Paris and I’m not sure that I ever will go at this point in life.
This fire is shocking and awful.
Very sad. I'm wondering how a a fire in a building so heavily trafficked could have gotten so badly out of hand, but I suppose we'll find out in due course. At least it appears no one has been hurt.
Losing any historical building is a real tragedy, let alone one so grand. I'm still grieving the library at Alexandria.
ETA: ...which I used to visit as a girl...:~)
Such a loss. How tragic.
It made a lasting impression and I can still picture it clearly. So sad!
Whenever I thought about cathedral construction techniques when reading Ken Follett's "Pillars of the Earth," which is actually set in the 12th century, I would think of Notre Dame with its spire reaching forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Rumor has it Apollonius of Rhodes patterned the Sirens in his epic poem Argonautica after a winsome lass named Jane he'd met in Alexandria during his tenure at the library. Hmmm....Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
It's heartbreaking to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldhat
I suspect the issue with the fire at Notre Dame is the same as it is with many other structures of its era and many centuries later: difficulty in integrating fire-suppression technologies like sprinklers and alarm systems without damaging the integrity and esthetics of the structure. In addition, it was mentioned that the building was undergoing an extensive renovation by the roof and workers were present when the fire broke out. So it is possible that a worker's torch or some spark lit old dried out frame timbers or other materials (wouldn't want to be that guy). Even the notion of dumping large quantities of water on the fire are complicated by the age of the building.
So far as I understand no one's been hurt and I have yet to hear the T word being thrown around.....this to me is indeed a big loss but things could have been worse. I continue to hope that it's not an act of terrorism. Rob
I read that it was undergoing some renovations. Perhaps some equipment sparked a flame? Who knows.
I visited Notre Dame in my teens as a part of a tour/homestay program. It is one of the very few remaining memories that stand out from that trip.
Horrible and tragic. Such majestic buildings---it never crosses our minds that something like this would happen to them, they're so much a part of the city's persona, culture and history. Imagine, its building was begun more than 1,000 years ago!
What strikes me is that Paris is on a river, yet I didn't see any aircraft dumping water like we see here every fire season. Maybe they aren't so equipped?
Appolonius clearly never heard Jane sing...
Or maybe he did. Perhaps the Sirens didn't lure sailors to their demise, but rather drove them there.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
Translations can be tricky.
Yes--I'd hate to be the worker who set off that blaze. What an awful burden to bear!
Agreed. I couldn't imagine living with that. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
I never suspected terrorism at first. Interesting where your mind goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Having worked in historic buildings under construction, I know that construction fires are very feared and fairly common. So far in news reports that is what is suspected here.
You and Trump. Great minds, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by KayLR
In my experience, you don't just "dump" water on a fire, especially in a building that has had its structural integrity compromised by the heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by KayLR
Water is used in a fairly precise and efficient way when really putting out a fire, it's more complicated than the Boy Scouts prepared me for :-)
A very small amount of water delivered to the seat of the fire can produce great results. Lots of water in the wrong place just makes a mess and causes more damage.
I'd love to see what their fire preplan looked like for this building. Around here, we have plans on file for every significant building in our community, with details on what to worry about, and how best to approach dealing with the building.
I can't imagine trying to fight the Notre Dame fire once it got going and into the wood support structures and the attic/roof spaces.
I think you were the first to mention "the T word". Kudos!Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Given that Paris has been the site of terrorist acts in the past, is it so far fetched that anyone's mind might go there? Intetesting take on your part, IL, and I say this with no snark. Intetesting take. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
In the absence of data, yes, it is a bit far-fetched.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
The organized attacks in 2015 were quite different in character than a single-building fire. To leap to the conclusion that this particular fire may be terror related just tells me that the terrorists have done a fine job in making people see monsters under the bed.
Ditto. Terrorism didnt occur to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Maybe some terrosits groups will try to take credit, though. But only very low level ignorant ones because fire science will identify the source of this tragedy fire post haste.
Well, it's tricky business, as fire likes to destroy evidence, and firefighters who are fighting fires are pretty good at destroying evidence while they are doing their work.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
They sent me to arson investigation school a few years back, because we treat every fire scene here as a potential crime scene until we rule out that possibility, and they wanted me to know what to look for, and what not to destroy until we properly observed/documented it.
Generally the investigation takes days-to-weeks, because it's a pain sifting through the rubble. Sometimes you get lucky and have a firm idea of the cause of the fire early on.
The Paris authorities have already issued a statement on the matter, so I presume they found a plausible, non-troubling source of ignition already.
I loved that book.Quote:
Originally Posted by razz
There have been a number of recent attacks on Catholic churches in France. Arson, vandalism, desecration of sacred items. So for those of us who are aware of what has been going on, thinking terrorism is not far-fetched.
I’m devastated by the loss of the windows.
I heard on the news tonight that they didn’t want to dump huge amounts of water on it from above because they feared it would collapse too many of the remaining structures.
A reminder that all things are impermanent.
Not to mention the Yellow Vest protesters. They took on the Arc de Triomphe. Other people took on the New York World Trade Center and the Pentagon. While my first thought about Notre Dame was "construction-related accident", thinking the fire might be terrorism is not unreasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
Forming an opinion before having evidence in front of you is, well, poor fire investigative practice. It shuts off the mind to weighing the evidence honestly and openly.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
Well, but we are all just internet doobs shooting from the hip. Its what we do.:~)Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Please do not hire us to investigate a fire or the murder of JonBenet Ramsey.
Check out the Daily Mail online. Article with tons of pics of the aftermath. One rose window survives. That gives me great joy!
Library fines are still accruing though!Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
So was anybody killed? Hurt?
A building this historical, and one that has been through much (WWII), I expect it is well documented, and will be rebuilt. (heck with the building, what about the people) How long until you can buy a charred T shirt?
hash tag, Quasimodo needs a new home.
One firefighter was badly hurt, I’ve heard, but nothing more and no idea on how it happened.