Why O won and R lost?

1. More women voted for O.
2. More young people voted for O.
3. Much more Hispanics voted for O. Remember R said "Self deportation" for Hisp.
4. Much more blacks, minorities, and recent immigrants voted for O.
5. People perceived O as more concerned for US industries.
6. R alienated folks with "47%" comments.
7. Democrats had better organization.
8. Republicans appeared monolithic, white only(big problem).
9. Folks are generally turned off by extreme Republican groups.
10. Anti abortion Reps. annoyed women in general.
11. Reps. failed to woo more Independents.
12. It wasn't just the economy!

As one article put it, the Republican party is too male, too old and too white. Just look at the mix of supporters at the election eve rallies. Which one represented the future demographics of the U.S. better? In four years, there will be even less older white voters as they die off and more teenagers and especially Hispanic teenagers turn voting age.

On top of this, I'd add that Romney just didn't come off as a personable guy. In spite of his efforts, he was unable to overcome an apparent representation of the wealthy and big business. Indeed, in hind sight, it wasn't just about the economy. Romney was unable to connect very well across age, race, income and gender lines. I'm not so sure whether Obama won, or if Romney managed to defeat himself. Then again, it was pretty darned close.

When I went to our state-level Republican convention as a delegate, it was pretty clear to me the Republicans were toast.

There were a *lot* of younger folks there, of *all* genders, and a fair amount of racial and economic diversity. Among the Ron Paul supporters, which were a significant part of the delegate crowd.

The Old Guard used every dirty trick in the book to try to marginalize and expel this group of energetic motivated people. And they were pretty successful at it.

A telling comment at a dinner I was at during the convention, from a 20-something: "well, we'll just have to wait until they all die of old age...". She was probably quite right. At 49, I was pretty much the oldest person in their crowd, but near the younger end of the spectrum of The Old Guard faction.

The Republicans rudely threw away the next generation or two of supporters at that convention. People who basically were socially liberal, fiscally conservative, and fans of smallish government and local action.

as a resident of a swing state here is my opinion after talking to a lot of people these past few weeks and this morning
1. the hateful anti-Obama ads that were aired by private parties and not endorsed by Romney hurt him instead of helped him. People don't like lies and hatefulness from either side.
2. the "Religious Rightous wealthy old white man club" who are so anti-poverty, anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-accesable health care etc. came off as being very selfish and hateful as opposed to Christian and loving
3. there are a lot of people who are desperately trying to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and were scared of what might happen if Obama lost.

bae, I hope you are right, it gives me great hope that this country will come out better in the end

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Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere

2. the "Religious Rightous wealthy old white man club" who are so anti-poverty, anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-accesable health care etc. came off as being very selfish and hateful as opposed to Christian and loving

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My personal politics are a bit to the right of Genghis Khan.

But, I have a teenage daughter, a wife, a gay father, and a gay father-in-law.

How the heck do the Republicans expect me to support them when they want to oppress and control the people I love?

No thanks.

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Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere

2. the "Religious Rightous wealthy old white man club" who are so anti-poverty, anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-accesable health care etc. came off as being very selfish and hateful

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Duly earning the American Taliban label.

My favorite headline of the past few hours....

"Congratulations Conservatives! You are getting a moderate Republican for President: Barack Obama"
on Slate.com

We flipped back and forth between FoxNews coverage and NBC coverage last night.
There are at least 2-4 alternate universes that are currently existing in our country.
I am not a usual FoxNews watcher, so it made their coverage all the more surreal to me.

Watching Megan traipse through the hallways of FoxNews in ridiculous high heels was like being trapped in a strange (not so) fun house..... to steal a line from pre-storm Chris Christie re: Obama - watching Megan looking for the Fox Decision Desk to relay the contesting protestations of Karl Rove was like watching "Obama wandering around the white house looking for a clue"

Interesting to hear President Obama bring up the deficit several times last night in his speech -- if I were a Dems, I would fight like hell for the middle electorate over the next 4 years. The Republicans have walked away from that marketshare and so much more. And if Repub's are going to fight for it - then stand the H-E-double-hockey-sticks up and start smacking down the koo-koo's - stop cowtowing to Talk Radio and FauxNews.
Find your spine Republicans and tell your racist grandmother to go shove it in a very loving way (oh wait, that was a pep talk to myself).

The Free Market of Ideas was in full control last night and the current incarnation of the GOP lost big time - they if anyone should be familiar with market forces and see the handwriting on the wall.

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Originally Posted by mtnlaurel

We flipped back and forth between FoxNews coverage and NBC coverage last night. There are at least 2-4 alternate universes that are currently existing in our country.

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LOL. We did the exact same thing and came to the exact same conclusion. It was weird.

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Originally Posted by Gregg

LOL. We did the exact same thing and came to the exact same conclusion. It was weird.

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I was flipping back and forth from ABC and Democracy Now - I expect I watched something very different.

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Originally Posted by creaker

I was flipping back and forth from ABC and Democracy Now - I expect I watched something very different.

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Was Diane Sawyer drunk?

The takeover of the GOP by religious conservatives took 30 years. I think it will take at least 20 years before the once GOP understands that they need to secularize and become much more inclusive.

The Old Guard is resisting change. Classic actions of those who cannot see that power sharing is better for us all. As a feminist, I see it as one more signal of the patriarchy ebbing away. As a progressive, I hope for a renewed GOP with a centrist message. As a citizen, I want more viable parties & am very appreciative of the incredible race, age, class, gender, and sexuality diversity in our amazing, pluralistic society. Even when it gets really really messy!

http://www.republicansforobama.org/

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"Congratulations Conservatives! You are getting a moderate Republican for President: Barack Obama"

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He's on the right, the authoritarian right to be precise, but I'm not so sure he's a moderate. We'll see I guess.

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I was flipping back and forth from ABC and Democracy Now - I expect I watched something very different.

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Hehehe. ABC was so biased, they actually said things like "Nevada pulled through for Obama". Um how is that anything but naked bias worthy of Fox? Democracy Now may be biased but openly so, so if you don't know where Democracy Now is coming from, then really nothing can be done for you.

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Originally Posted by Alan

Was Diane Sawyer drunk?

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Well supposedly she was just tired and not drunk.

Spot on, Redfox.

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Originally Posted by mtnlaurel

My favorite headline of the past few hours....

"Congratulations Conservatives! You are getting a moderate Republican for President: Barack Obama"
on Slate.com

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Sounds a little like Chris Rock's "Message for White Voters" on the Jimmy Kimmel show last week.

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Originally Posted by mtnlaurel

We flipped back and forth between FoxNews coverage and NBC coverage last night. [snip]I am not a usual FoxNews watcher, so it made their coverage all the more surreal to me.

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I saw tweets commenting on the Spin-O-Rama taking place on Fox last night, so we switched it on. By then even they had conceded the election to Obama. But watching this Sheperd (sp?) character dissembling on-air when clearly the race a) didn't go their way; and 2) was over way before they'd planned, was bizarre.

I hope the Republicans take this opportunity to do some soul-searching. Right now the loud and dangerous inmates are the ones running the asylum. Frankly, I'd like to see a functional G.O.P. facing off with Democrats*. Ideas get sharper when there's constructive pushback and argument (not public tantrums, Messrs. McConnell and Boehner). A different perspective is useful -- when it's not grounded in dogma and clearly in violation of reality (Messrs. Akin and Mourdock and Ms. Bachmann). And it wouldn't hurt for most of the Republican party leadership to learn what the word "credibility" means. They seem utterly oblivious to the hypocrisy of declaring government "the enemy" after serving seven Congressional terms -- or an entire career -- suckling at the public ---- (Messrs. Ryan and Boehner [again]), or professing to be for "family values" when the family they have in mind is Ward and June Cleaver and when their own behavior is just reprehensible (Messrs. Cain and Gingrich).

I would love to see more "Eisenhower Republicans" (and not "Sam's Club Republicans" like that poseur Tim Pawlenty). But others may be right -- the old guard may have to die off first before that kind of reform can happen.

* I'd like to see a true multi-party system, but right now I'll settle for two functional parties.

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Frankly, I'd like to see a functional G.O.P. facing off with Democrats*.

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I'd like to have had some way to vote against Obama besides Jill Stein (and other 3rd party candidates). Stein is a good woman, but I also felt there's no way I could stomach the duopoly. Of course the Dems ALSO didn't primary Obama.

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I would love to see more "Eisenhower Republicans" (and not "Sam's Club Republicans" like that poseur Tim Pawlenty). But others may be right -- the old guard may have to die off first before that kind of reform can happen.

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I don't think I can take ever take it even slightly seriously until conservatism integrates conservation, until they integrate environmental information into their belief systems, until they really think hard and deep, and seriously about protecting our environment. Which I don't think is absolutely opposed to conservatism in ideology but in money it is, if the Koch brother's are funding your party ....

But hey, that may just be me, caring about maintaining ecosysems and stuff, nutty as a fruitpie.

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* I'd like to see a true multi-party system, but right now I'll settle for two functional parties.

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what I want as well of course

The republicans have the golden opportunity to gain back some credibility, and do the country a good turn to boot. Obama has demonstrated in the past that he is more than willing to bend over backwards to make a deal (sometimes too far in my opinion). Right now we are facing some very rough road just ahead. If all these people would just come together and hammer out a deal, real compromise, it would do congresses credibility a great deal of good. I don't think these 'no compromise' folks understand that the majority of their party will admire them for trying, and for compromising, even if they don't get everything they want. And that goes for both sides of the isle. Used to be we all understood that no one gets everything they want.

I too would like to see a stronger libertarian party with more well defined platforms/ideas. And maybe that is the future of the GOP. I think at this point we are all ready to listen, but I also think people are fed up with the BS and will call them on it.

DH describes Republicans as fat white guys--and he is a Republican who describes himself the same way. But I know DH is more than that. Too bad that the GOP has become a caricature of itself.

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Originally Posted by catherine

DH describes Republicans as fat white guys--and he is a Republican who describes himself the same way. But I know DH is more than that. Too bad that the GOP has become a caricature of itself.

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Who creates and promotes the caricature? How many times today on these very forums has someone typed "old white guys" as a representation of nearly half the population of the United States?

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Originally Posted by bae

When I went to our state-level Republican convention as a delegate, it was pretty clear to me the Republicans were toast.

There were a *lot* of younger folks there, of *all* genders, and a fair amount of racial and economic diversity. Among the Ron Paul supporters, which were a significant part of the delegate crowd.

The Old Guard used every dirty trick in the book to try to marginalize and expel this group of energetic motivated people. And they were pretty successful at it.

A telling comment at a dinner I was at during the convention, from a 20-something: "well, we'll just have to wait until they all die of old age...". She was probably quite right. At 49, I was pretty much the oldest person in their crowd, but near the younger end of the spectrum of The Old Guard faction.

The Republicans rudely threw away the next generation or two of supporters at that convention. People who basically were socially liberal, fiscally conservative, and fans of smallish government and local action.

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Bae,

Thank you for this evaluation and observation. I think that this is true of my own experience.

I did find that a lot of us who are as you describe "socially liberal, fiscally conservative and fans of smallish government and local actions" have been marginalized within the party. I would say that's a pretty good description of myself.

In law school, I started to head in that direction and got active in local republican actions. I was really frustrated with how it all went down. There were several of us under 30 (at the time) who were quite motivated by these great ideas and grass-roots effort and the whole concept of working locally (ie, "occupy style"), and the people over the age of 55 were really . . . well, nasty with us. Lots of yelling and freaking out if we disagreed with them. Marginalized is. . . well, it's a nice way of putting it. We were commonly patronized too.

So, then Dean comes into power over the DNC and they start talking about grass roots organizing and what not. My friends and I head across the street (as in literally) to those offices. I always thought it was funny how the offices were *across the street* from each other in my town. made me giggle to no end. I have an absurd sense of humor.

Anyway, I head across the street and at first they are all like "yay! Young people interested in our action! woohoo!" But they didn't like us much at all. The over 55 set treated us the exact same way - yelling at us when we brought up alternatives or new ideas, calling us names, really being patronizing (over-influenced by our parents/professors/media/someone else, not thinking for ourselves, being too young to really understand/know, etc).

As such, most of us rather "gave up" and started to meet with each other in a sort of loose political salon where we talked about ideas and basically wait for the other group to move out of power.

We also wonder if our parents were this frustrated when they were our age or what.

My sister and her husband have decided to become activists within the republican party, but they are a mix of thecon lite, neocon heavy, and a smattering of libertarian (or at least, he likes the A.Rand books). I think that their local office is happy to have ANYONE helping out, so my sister and her husband are practically celbrities. but they are also pretty square within the party, too -- not very many waves honestly -- so they haven't been marginalized. They also bring my parents to many of the events, so this perhaps legitimates them a bit or something. I don't really know.

Anyway, yeah.

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Originally Posted by Alan

Who creates and promotes the caricature? How many times today on these very forums has someone typed "old white guys" as a representation of nearly half the population of the United States?

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I don't know. It's a great question. But people don't come up with these mental pictures out of nowhere--and as I said, even DH puts himself right smack in that cartoon imagery. And he is an absolute prism of different attributes. But that's what branding is all about.

In market research we try to identify the "brand personality" of products. The GOP needs to understand why the brand personality of the GOP is perceived to be the fat white guy--and change it.

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Originally Posted by catherine

I don't know. It's a great question. But people don't come up with these mental pictures out of nowhere--and as I said, even DH puts himself right smack in that cartoon imagery. And he is an absolute prism of different attributes. But that's what branding is all about.

In market research we try to identify the "brand personality" of products. The GOP needs to understand why the brand personality of the GOP is perceived to be the fat white guy--and change it.

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"Romney surrogate" John Sununu didn't help.

Old, white, mean and obnoxious.

Why would they constantly put a guy like that out there?

Another article which agrees with the reasons cited by the OP:
http://www.policymic.com/articles/18...ction-day-2012

On the Newshour (PBS) tonight they were saying what has been said above about the Republican Party has dug itself into the old white male population demographics. They fail to understand that the demographics in the US are changing. Latinos, Asians, and women are now a very large part of the elector. What was said about evangelical Christians controlling the party are also true. The nation has moved to the left on social issues like gay rights and women's rights. The Republican party with it's evangelical Christian base has not.

The US elector is basically in the middle not too much left or right. The Republicans have moved too far to the right.

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Originally Posted by Alan

Who creates and promotes the caricature? How many times today on these very forums has someone typed "old white guys" as a representation of nearly half the population of the United States?

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actually half the population of the US did not even vote. About 120 million votes were cast. The population is about 315 million so if 57 million people cast votes for Romney, that is less than 20% of the total population, not half.

That is my impression of the current republican party, as those were the types that I saw on all the many political ads that constantly ran on TV, the people who were the most vocal Republicans in my community (although there were some old white women too) and Donald Trump is not a big help either. The crowds that were shown on the news coverage when Ryan came to my area were not young, not of color, and largely male in an upper middle class community.

and from cnn

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/07/politi...html?hpt=hp_t2

"Romney lost embarrassingly among young people, African-Americans and Hispanics, a brutal reminder for Republicans that their party is ideologically out of tune with fast-growing segments of the population.
Obama crushed Romney among Hispanic voters by a whopping 44 points, a margin of victory that likely propelled the president to victories in Nevada, Colorado and possibly Florida."

and there were a many women I knew who were really really upset about the anti abortion, no funding for planned parenthood line out of the mouths of the two rich white candidates Romney and Ryan and they feared instead of working towards the good of the country they would spend their time attempting to impose their "religious" morals and oppress women. I know you disagree with this but it is not a man's decision unless he is willing to raise the child.

Bet I know what the Romster is doing today.

He was going to buy himself " another Weimaraner" if he won. Since he lost ... he will probably console himself by filing an amended tax return for 2011, claimng tax deductions on the rest of his "chartiable contributions," i.e., his gifts to the Mormon church.

Time is money, my friend, time is money...

Alan, the term "old white guys" came from CBS news in which one of the guys quoted a REPUBLICAN saying our party cannot continue to win with just "old white guys"

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Originally Posted by heydude

Alan, the term "old white guys" came from CBS news in which one of the guys quoted a REPUBLICAN saying our party cannot continue to win with just "old white guys"

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Here is one place of many references -

"Our party needs to realize that it’s too old and too white and too male and it needs to figure out how to catch up with the demographics of the country before it’s too late,” said Al Cardenas, the head of the American Conservative Union and a longtime GOP leader.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz2BbxhvI7J

Kinda so what? A lot of movements are kind of white, like the environmental movement is rather white (although probably pretty female). Are the consequences of heedless exploitation of the environment any less real? Thats not meant as a backhanded defense of the R party, far be it, more a be careful what corner you paint yourself in thing.

I think R lost because he was mostly an empty suit, there was little reason to vote for him, he wasn't much of an opposition to many of the worst policies of the O administration, and frankly you could never be entirely sure where the guy stood on anything. Isn't that enough?

Maybe marketing for Pepsi could be changed, but as for changing minds via marketing (by which I mean propaganda of course) why believe it's always hard? I've heard that polls generally showed people in general tended to show favorably for GMO labeling, but maybe this was a weak rather than a strong conviction, apparently it was nothing massively one sided marketing couldn't change. I dont' know. I don't care (although that particular is unfortunate). But I mean a populus that's a little better swayed by this or that marketing is so far from what I consider desirable or good in any way that ...

One analysis here, from an unabashedly liberal source: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-rank-and-file

" So many on the right had predicted a Mitt Romney victory, or even a blowout -- Dick Morris, George Will, and Michael Barone all predicted the GOP would break 300 electoral votes. ......Conservatives were at a disadvantage because Romney supporters like Jennifer Rubin and Hugh Hewitt saw it as their duty to spin constantly for their favored candidate rather than being frank about his strengths and weaknesses.....Conservatives were at an information disadvantage because so many right-leaning outlets wasted time on stories the rest of America dismissed as nonsense....movement conservatives, who believe the [mainstream media] is more biased and less rigorous than their alternatives, have no way to explain how their trusted outlets got it wrong, while the New York Times got it right. Hint: The Times hired the most rigorous forecaster it could find."

I agree with Stevein MN - I'd like to see two functional parties, and then a system that truly respects third parties and allows them to participate. Maybe starting with third parties - really including them - would improve the two main parties.

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Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere

actually half the population of the US did not even vote. About 120 million votes were cast. The population is about 315 million so if 57 million people cast votes for Romney, that is less than 20% of the total population, not half.

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Not to be picky, but about 75 million of the remaining citizens aren't yet 18.

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Originally Posted by Gregg

Not to be picky, but about 75 million of the remaining citizens aren't yet 18.

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thank you. so that makes about 240 million people who could vote. So if 57,000 voted for Romney a little under 25% of the total adult voting population. and of course only 25% voted for Obama. Not exactly a true representation of our whole population in either instance.

I tried to see a breakdown of the actual demographics of age, race, gender etc. but could not find it.

1/4 vote Dem, 1/4 vote Rep, 1/4 aren't old enough to vote and 1/4 are apathetic. Sounds about right.

Regarding demographics, all the talk about how 'white' the Republican party is kind of fascinates me. According to the 2010 census 72.4% of the US population IS white ("white alone" to be specific). To be sure minority populations are growing rapidly, but they have a long way to go before any of them, or even all the groups together, become the majority in the US. If almost 3/4 of the US is white and if the Democratic party does a better job of appealing to minorities then it only makes sense that the GOP is made up of mostly white folks because there's nobody else left! It just doesn't seem like rocket science to get that far. How to appeal to those minorities and still maintain the base OTOH...

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Originally Posted by Gregg

Regarding demographics, all the talk about how 'white' the Republican party is kind of fascinates me.

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Me too. Not to sound judgmental but it seems to me that one of our mainstream political parties specializes in identity politics in a big way, and it works for them. What I don't understand is why so many people simply accept the notion that their race or gender puts them into one particular political camp over another to the point that they can comfortably use race/gender characteristics as an identifying factor.

If it weren't so mainstream, I'd think it was racist, sexist and offensive.

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Originally Posted by Alan

What I don't understand is why so many people simply accept the notion that their race or gender puts them into one particular political camp over another to the point that they can comfortably use race/gender characteristics as an identifying factor.

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It seems like a case of perception becoming reality. For whatever reason people perceive the Democratic party as a haven for minorities. That was obviously important in this election. IMO that perception is based almost purely on the social rather than the fiscal parts of the platform. It will be interesting to see if the GOP can find a way to appeal to a broader range of women and still maintain a conservative stand on abortion. Same with gay marriage and the GLBT vote. Immigration and Hispanics. Etc. No party can be everything to everyone and while its incredibly annoying to hear what a loaf of wonder bread the GOP is, I do think the pundits are correct about he need to appeal to a broader base going forward.

On CNN, Alex Castellanos characterized himself/his party as "uncool" as a way to explain, prior to the results coming in, that the polls were underreporting the Romney vote: in other words, he was saying that Republicans themselves don't like admitting they're Republican because of the "boy scout" image they have.

I do not believe the "uncool white boy scout" image is a conspiracy by any other party--If that's image that Republicans themselves have created, well, that's what it is and it's only up to the Republicans to change it.

Buick isn't sitting around pointing fingers at Toyota because everyone associates Buicks with old people. They're out there trying to redefine themselves.

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Originally Posted by Gregg

It seems like a case of perception becoming reality. For whatever reason people perceive the Democratic party as a haven for minorities. That was obviously important in this election. IMO that perception is based almost purely on the social rather than the fiscal parts of the platform. It will be interesting to see if the GOP can find a way to appeal to a broader range of women and still maintain a conservative stand on abortion. Same with gay marriage and the GLBT vote. Immigration and Hispanics. Etc. No party can be everything to everyone and while its incredibly annoying to hear what a loaf of wonder bread the GOP is, I do think the pundits are correct about he need to appeal to a broader base going forward.

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Perhaps GOP politicians should take a leaf from Elizabeth Warren's book and start claiming various interesting ethnic identities. In an environment where people claim to detect racism in evey word and gesture, that might be a form of immunization. It seems at the moment too much to ask that calling an organization "too white" be considered as offensive as calling it "too brown".

Every election, people read way too much into a victory or defeat. The reason Obama won was because of his ground game. Our side registered more voters and got those people to the polls in the states that count. We got just enough people out to eek out victories in the swing states to create a sizable electoral win. Without that ground game, it would would have been a lot closer, and could have gone either way.

I think both parties should be more cautious about drawing lessons. The only way the Dems continue to win the way they did this time is to keep that ground game strong. The only way the GOP is going to come back is to build a network equally as strong.

The much derided community organizer won this election.

Every election, people read way too much into a victory or defeat. This is a divided electorate, and this was a close election. The reason Obama won was because of his ground game. Our side registered more voters and got those people to the polls in the states that count. We got just enough people out to eek out victories in the swing states to create a sizable electoral win. Without that ground game, it would would have been a lot closer, and could have gone either way.

I think both parties should be more cautious about drawing lessons. The only way the Dems continue to win the way they did this time is to keep that ground game strong. The only way the GOP is going to come back is to build a network equally as strong.

The much derided community organizer won this election.